Any good way to get Greater Invisibility by RAW?

[Barstro]

A party member would be very happy to have Greater Invisibility during fights.
The party's caster can easily spend a round granting that.

Is there a way to do this so the caster does not have to spend a precious in-fight action to do this?
1) Just have the caster spend the Standard Action.
2) Get a Lesser rod of Quicken so the caster can still do Haste in the first round and then cast GI.
3) Make a wand (Caster is Mythic and can recharge the wand as needed (broken))

Options I would prefer;
Some sort of Wondrous Item (caster can craft) allowing x/day GI
Inexpensive spell storing item that the caster can recharge between fights (Ring of Spell Storing - Minor is so close but Ring of Spell Storing (normal) is too expensive)
Inexpensive weapon ability that can activate GI on the first hit (akin to Spell Storing Weapon ability, but can affect the wielder)

Any ideas? Price greater than 17,500 means that a Metamagic Rod of Quick – Lesser is the better option.

[Khedrac]

See if the DM will allow you to port in the 3.5 War Weaver class (Heroes of Battle).
They can store spells in a weave that can be activated as a move action - I usually used Greater Invisibility, Haste, Fly and Protection from Evil - one move action for all 4, close range (so no need to touch everyone) and I could still use nerveskitter (on the weave so getting the whole party) and cast something appropriate as a standard action in the first round of combat.

[Kurald Galain]

...Brew Potion?

[Eldonauran]

...Brew Potion?

Inscribe Magical Tattoo (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/inscribe-magical-tattoo-item-creation)

[Klara Meison]

Use custom magical item crafting rules and talk to your GM. Shouldn't be terribly hard.

[Barstro]

1) Pathfinder only; I'm not porting anything
2) Brew potion cannot do 4th level spell and at 375pg each (at least), it is way too expensive
3) Inscribe Magical Tattoo is not any cheaper than Craft Wondrous, which is too expensive given my stated parameters
4) I think my idea is already approaching broken. I want to be armed with RAW, not try to convince the DM that this should be allowed. No reason to open any cans of worms.

I didn't think my puzzle actually had an answer. Thanks for the ideas.

[Psyren]

Does it have to be GI? If it's just total concealment your martial is after (for sneak attack etc.) there are cheaper ways of getting that.

[Barstro]

Does it have to be GI? If it's just total concealment your martial is after (for sneak attack etc.) there are cheaper ways of getting that.

I think it is just for sneak attack. I'm not well versed in all the options available and would appreciate any insight you can give.

[Psyren]

I think it is just for sneak attack. I'm not well versed in all the options available and would appreciate any insight you can give.

If it's for ranged sneak attack, Fogcutting Lenses (8k) + Smokesticks or an Eversmoking Bottle (5.4k) will get you sneak attack on every shot. This method will also defeat See Invisibility and even True Seeing.

If it's for melee... flanking is free :smallbiggrin:

[Barstro]

If it's for ranged sneak attack, Fogcutting Lenses (8k) + Smokesticks or an Eversmoking Bottle (5.4k) will get you sneak attack on every shot. This method will also defeat See Invisibility and even True Seeing.

If it's for melee... flanking is free :smallbiggrin:

Fogcutting Lenses were going to be crafted anyway and that would give even more reason for the caster to use Obscuring Mist.

The Vigilante's play style might not work with standing still to hit things, but we'll see.

Thanks, I think that can work.

[Tuvarkz]

Intelligent Magic item? Expensive, but could get GI at-will SLA.

[CasualViking]

I don't know if there's a recent FAQ, but PF RAW don't actually support "blocked LOS-> sneak attack".

[DracoknightZero]

I don't know if there's a recent FAQ, but PF RAW don't actually support "blocked LOS-> sneak attack".

Well normally you cant sneak attack anything with concealment, unless you are the unchained rogue.
As for LOS i guess that depends on if its a concealment "block" or if its actually the matter you cant see the target, which even if you hit the attack i dont think you get sneak attack for it.

So technically by RAW you cant sneak attack in dim light either due to concealment.

Added Edit:

D20PFSRD on Standard Rogue

The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.


And the unchained variant:

The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment.

[Barstro]

Well normally you cant sneak attack anything with concealment, unless you are the unchained rogue.
As for LOS i guess that depends on if its a concealment "block" or if its actually the matter you cant see the target, which even if you hit the attack i dont think you get sneak attack for it.

I'm not sure I understand the point of these statements, but I might be reading them slightly wrong.

At issue in this sub-discussing is using Eversmoking Bottle or Obscuring Mist to "totally obscure vision" or "obscure all sight" respectively. If the PC in question also has Fogcutting Lenses, then still see through the smoke/fog while the enemies are still affected.

But now I have the following;
A way to get Sneak Attack is to have an enemy denied a Dex bonus to AC.
"Blinded" causes the enemy to lose Dex bonus to AC.
RAW does not really say that Smoke or Fog grant the "Blinded" condition.

Is there any rule that states or at least strongly suggests that smoke/fog conveys "blinded"?

[Psyren]

While I look that up, just wanted to point out another cheap method - Dust of Disappearance provides 2d6 rounds of Greater Invisibility for only 3.5k. Once you're rich enough however you should probably switch to a GI wand.

[Barstro]

Dust of Disappearance provides 2d6 rounds of Greater Invisibility for only 3.5k.
ONLY? The caster will be able to cast it several times a day for free. I do not think 3.5k (or even 1.75k) per use is a justifiable cost.


Once you're rich enough however you should probably switch to a GI wand.
Again, caster can do this for free. Vigilante would have to spend many points on UMD when those could be spent elsewhere.

I suppose this is a good way for the caster's familiar to get involved, but I think 12k might be too much.

What about this;
Ring of Spell Storing; Minor with Haste in it.
Vigilante can use that each fight so the Caster can use GI on the Vigilante.

[Psyren]

ONLY? The caster will be able to cast it several times a day for free. I do not think 3.5k (or even 1.75k) per use is a justifiable cost.

It comes online much earlier though (4th or 5th level, using the guidelines), and unlike a wand it can be crafted by a mundane via Master Craftsman. But yeah, if you want it up every fight it could get expensive quickly.



What about this;
Ring of Spell Storing; Minor with Haste in it.
Vigilante can use that each fight so the Caster can use GI on the Vigilante.

Isn't that over your 17.5k limit?

[Barstro]

Isn't that over your 17.5k limit?

Minor is only 9k vs. 17.5k Quicken Rod. Sure, it uses up a different PC's action, but I think that's really a cost of just one attack (I expect the PC would have to move the first round and not be able to full attack).

[Extra Anchovies]

Vigilantes can nab Rogue talents, so they could pick up Ki Pool (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/ki-pool-ex) and Ninja Trick (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/ninja-trick-ex) (Vanishing Trick (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/ninja/ninja-tricks/paizo---ninja-tricks/vanishing-trick)) for a swift-action Invisibility SLA a few times per day.

If they can retrain, the Teisatsu (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante/archetypes/vigilante-archetypes---paizo-inc/teisatsu-vigilante-archetype) archetype trades one vigilante talent for a much better ki pool (1/2 level + Cha instead of the Wis from the rogue talent), and can access Ninja Tricks to grab Vanishing Strike. They also get access to uMonk ki powers and have different weapon proficiencies.

However, I don't think either of those approaches can get Invisible Blade, which is the ninja master trick that grants a ki-based Greater Invisibility SLA. Does anyone know of any ways to get ninja master tricks without ten levels of Ninja?

[Yanisa]

Did you check out Amulet of the Blooded, Fey) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-the-blooded). It offers 9 rounds of greater invisibility for 10k from a shop. (Or only 5k if you can make it yourself.)

Not sure if that is enough duration is long enough for your taste. It helps in 1 or 2 battles at most.

[Draconi Redfir]

simmilarly to the above post, the Fey bloodline for Pathfinder sorcerers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/fey-bloodline) gives you the "fleeting glance" ability that lets you turn invisible (as greater invisibility) for a number of rounds equal to your sorcerer level per day. You DO need to invest nine levels into sorcerer in order to get this though, so if you're not playing a spellcaster then you may want a different option.

13th lvl also provides you with the "mislead" spell, that gives you greater invisibility while leaving behind an illusion of yourself.

[Der_DWSage]

Well...9 levels in Sorcerer, or two feats and a decent Charisma. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-eldritch-heritage)

[Barstro]

Did you check out Amulet of the Blooded, Fey) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-the-blooded). It offers 9 rounds of greater invisibility for 10k from a shop. (Or only 5k if you can make it yourself.)

Normally, I'd say this is too expensive for what it does. But the caster is especially skilled at Craft Wondrous, do so it might be fine.

Standard action to activate, right?

Edit; typing on a phone is hard.

[Barstro]

Well...9 levels in Sorcerer, or two feats and a decent Charisma. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-eldritch-heritage)

Hmm. I like that too. Not sure the ability is worth two feats, though.

[Yanisa]

Normally, I'd say this is too expensive for what it does. But the caster is especially skilled at Craft Wondrous, do it might be fine.

Standard action to activate, right?

Yeah, in case of magic items there is a hard rule. If it's not specified, it's a command word activated item that takes a standard action. It is worse then a quickened spell in terms of combat round efficiency.
Kinda forget to mention that, sorry. ^^'

As for the bloodline itself, no action is specified but it is a spell-like ability (sp). Spell-like ability function like spells, so most likely it would also be a standard action. Although that isn't a hard rule, just something that makes sense based on other rules.

However there is a lore argument to be made that it should be a free action. I believe the ability to turn invisible is based of the Pixie, who can turn visible and invisible as a free action. (Then again the Pixie's ability is Supernatural (su) and no spell-like at all...)

[Snow-blind]

...
As for the bloodline itself, no action is specified but it is a spell-like ability (sp). Spell-like ability function like spells, so most likely it would also be a standard action. Although that isn't a hard rule, just something that makes sense based on other rules.
...
It is a hard rule.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description.
You can argue that fleeting glance references the spell Greater Invisibility because it says the ability functions as Greater Invisibility, or you can argue that it doesn't and the ability description has no indicated action cost.

Either way, it is a standard action.

[Der_DWSage]

Hmm. I like that too. Not sure the ability is worth two feats, though.

To be fair, it'd actually give a pair of good abilities if they were to take two feats. The Greater Invisibility for Level-2 rounds a day is nice, but the other one is a no-save 'No standard actions for 1 round' touch attack. Fey Bloodline is probably one of the better ones to take with Eldritch Heritage.

Whether or not the character has the Charisma for it is another story.

[Barstro]

Whether or not the character has the Charisma for it is another story.

Pretty sure it's three Feats.

That's enough of an investment that Cha no longer masters. :smallwink: