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TiaC
2016-12-23, 04:38 AM
1) I can't possibly win against Bucky, because Bucky wins a race against me if I actually try to win; I can't ever go below 8 life or lose to the crack back from Chaos Lord, so I can't ever actually win and the game should be a draw with me at some amount of life that doesn't lose the race and Bucky never playing Chaos Lord. This shouldn't change the standings much as Bucky still has more points than everyone else with 2 draws instead of losses to me.

2) You forgot Fungal Reaches is banned.

1. Since Chaos Lord changes control during its controller's upkeep, it can never attack if the number of permanents is even. Your deck can play the Icatian Store and then save up to play both Near-Death Experience and Standing Stones on the same turn, ensuring that the number of permanents is always even, preventing the Chaos Lord from attacking and allowing you to win.

2. Storage lands are exempt from being banned, in order to keep higher costed cards in the meta.

Bucky
2016-12-23, 12:10 PM
2) You forgot Fungal Reaches is banned.

The original decklist had Calciform Pools instead, for alliteration. There was an error in the version I sent, which TiaC corrected by substituting Fungal Reaches for the unknown card, which I'd described in supplementary information as having the time spiral storage land ability.

Regardless, there's no significant difference between the versions.

tgva8889
2016-12-24, 03:18 PM
Yes, I misread Chaos Lord. It didn't matter anyways.

TiaC
2017-01-01, 03:36 PM
Happy new year everyone! Here's hoping this one goes better than the last.

b_jonas: Sandstone Needle (http://magiccards.info/mm/en/326.html), Sandstone Needle (http://magiccards.info/mm/en/326.html), Boldwyr Heavyweights (http://magiccards.info/mt/en/85.html)
Tom the Mime: Tinder farm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=23239), Crystal vein (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389476), Ajani Vengeant (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=266299)
Bucky: Vampire Hexmage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389735), Dark Depths (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=416746), Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383425)
Fable Wright: Chancellor of the Tangle (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218062), Aether Vial (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420593), Acidic Slime (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=405117)
tgva8889: Chancellor of the Tangle (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218062), Rushwood Grove (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19895), Wasteland Viper (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366417)
Gauntlet: Cavern of Souls (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=278058), Scythe Tiger (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=178113), Leyline of Sanctity (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397677)

b_jonas: Sandstone Needle (http://magiccards.info/mm/en/326.html), Sandstone Needle (http://magiccards.info/mm/en/326.html), Boldwyr Heavyweights (http://magiccards.info/mt/en/85.html)
Vs. Tom the Mime: LL (0)
Vs. Bucky: LL (0)
Vs. Fable Wright: WW (6)
Vs. tgva8889: DD (8)
Vs. Gauntlet: WW (14)

Tom the Mime: Tinder farm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=23239), Crystal vein (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389476), Ajani Vengeant (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=266299)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (6)
Vs. Bucky: LL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: LL (6)
Vs. tgva8889: WW (12)
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (12)

Bucky: Vampire Hexmage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389735), Dark Depths (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=416746), Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383425)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (6)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (12)
Vs. Fable Wright: WW (18)
Vs. tgva8889: WW (24)
Vs. Gauntlet: WW (30)

Fable Wright: Chancellor of the Tangle (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218062), Aether Vial (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420593), Acidic Slime (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=405117)
Vs. b_jonas: LL (0)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (6)
Vs. Bucky: LL (6)
Vs. tgva8889: WW (12)
Vs. Gauntlet: WW (18)

tgva8889: Chancellor of the Tangle (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218062), Rushwood Grove (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19895), Wasteland Viper (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366417)
Vs. b_jonas: DD (2)
Vs. Tom the Mime: LL (2)
Vs. Bucky: LL (2)
Vs. Fable Wright: LL (2)
Vs. Gauntlet: WW (8)

Gauntlet: Cavern of Souls (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=278058), Scythe Tiger (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=178113), Leyline of Sanctity (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397677)
Vs. b_jonas: LL (0)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (6)
Vs. Bucky: LL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: LL (6)
Vs. tgva8889: LL (6)

Bucky dusts off an old deck to go undefeated. It looks like everyone was expecting far more disruption than we actually got.

b_jonas
2017-01-01, 05:14 PM
Happy new year everyone! Here's hoping this one goes better than the last. Happy New Year!

Six decks this time. They use nice technology, I have a lot to learn from them. TiaC, please mention in that post which round this is (round 26 I think) to make the thread easier to follow later.

Bucky, nice timing, posting this fast combo deck when nobody played discard or Path to Exile effects, congrats. Sure, my deck benefits from that environment too, but not by enough.

Tom the Mime: wow, that's a surprising deck. It uses unusual lands in the mana base, I should learn from that. But the big surprise to me is how you win against my deck when you have the play. You keep my second land from untapping each turn starting from the second turn, so I can't play my creature, until eventually you can play the ultimate to destroy my land and have Ajani survive.

Tom the Mime
2017-01-01, 06:37 PM
I think I'm WW against you actually given crystal vein coming in untapped means that I can always manage to pay it before you have both lands untapped.

I find it funny that fable can't play the acidic slime as it has to destroy the vital with no other targets but then I'm sunk by vigilance on the chancellor.

Bucky
2017-01-01, 10:29 PM
I spent a while trying to come up with a reasonable Chancellor of the Tangle deck but never thought of Vial and concluded that the best Ch-Tangle deck didn't have Ch-Tangle in it. Then I realized that Dark Depths somehow wasn't banned yet and immediately switched decks.

---

Hexmage Depths actually beats a lot of Path decks due to Hexmage beats, with Marit Lage's role being to keep them from tapping out.

Gauntlet
2017-01-02, 07:58 AM
Apparently I should stop trying to be interesting and just play discard spells.

TiaC
2017-01-04, 03:52 PM
Here are the results for round 26.

Gold: Bucky
Silver: Fable Wright
Bronze: b_jonas
Walking the walk: Tom the Mime
Entangled: tgva8889
Can't touch this: Gauntlet

Land: Ancient Tomb, Bayou, Bazaar of Baghdad, Caldera Lake, Cathedral of War, City of Traitors, Dark Depths, Dryad Arbor, Ebon Stronghold, Ghost Quarter, Gruul Turf, Hickory Woodlot, Inkmoth Nexus, Keldon Megaliths, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Workshop, R&D's Secret Lair, Scrubland, Shelldock Isle, Strip Mine, Syvelunite Temple, Tundra, Undiscovered Paradise, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Wasteland

Colorless: Arcbound Slith, Black Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Chronomaton, Emrakul the Aeons torn, Isochron Scepter, Karn Liberated, Lion's Eye Diamond, Memnite, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Steel Overseer, The Rack, Topor Orb

Black: Bitterblossom, Blackmail, Bloodghast, Chancellor of the Dross, Cruel Sadist, Dark Ritual, Entomber Exarch, Liliana the Last Hope, Mind Swords, Shrieking Affliction, Soul Spike, Vampire Hexmage, Vault Skirge

Blue: Daze, Ensoul Artifact, Flash, Force of Will, Laboratory Maniac, Leyline of Anticipation, Mental Misstep, Zephyr Spirit

Green: Channel, Elvish Farmer, Form of the Squirrel, Helix Pinnacle, Woodfall Primus, Young Wolf

Red: Burning Inquiry, Chancellor of the Forge, Chaos Lord

White: Balance, Cenn's Tactician, Chancellor of the Annex, Doomed Traveler

Gold: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Research//Development

TiaC
2017-01-08, 04:55 PM
Round 27 makes a nice cube.

b_jonas: Bottomless Vault (http://magiccards.info/5e/en/411.html), Phage the Untouchable (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/166.html), Evil Presents (http://magiccards.info/hho/en/3.html)
tgva8889: Peat Bog (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19644), Hymn to Tourach (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413634), Lupine Prototype (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=414504)
Tom the Mime: Mox emerald (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383019), Mutavault (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370733), Ratchet bomb (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370623)
Gauntlet: Lotus Bloom (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370562), Lotus Bloom (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370562), The Cheese Stands Alone (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9773)
Fable Wright: Karakas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413782), Aether Vial (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420593), Mangara of Corondor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113563)
Bucky: Blooming Marsh (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=417816), Tukatongue Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423504), Cabal Therapy (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413625)

b_jonas: Bottomless Vault (http://magiccards.info/5e/en/411.html), Phage the Untouchable (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/166.html), Evil Presents (http://magiccards.info/hho/en/3.html)
Vs. tgva8889: LL (0)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (6)
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: LL (6)
Vs. Bucky: LL (6)

tgva8889: Peat Bog (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19644), Hymn to Tourach (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413634), Lupine Prototype (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=414504)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (6)
Vs. Tom the Mime: LL (6)
Vs. Gauntlet: WW (12)
Vs. Fable Wright: WW (18)
Vs. Bucky: DL (19)

Tom the Mime: Mox emerald (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383019), Mutavault (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370733), Ratchet bomb (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370623)
Vs. b_jonas: LL (0)
Vs. tgva8889: WW (6)
Vs. Gauntlet: WW (12)
Vs. Fable Wright: WW (18)
Vs. Bucky: WL (21)

Gauntlet: Lotus Bloom (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370562), Lotus Bloom (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370562), The Cheese Stands Alone (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9773)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (6)
Vs. tgva8889: LL (6)
Vs. Tom the Mime: LL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: WW (12)
Vs. Bucky: LL (12)

Fable Wright: Karakas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413782), Aether Vial (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420593), Mangara of Corondor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113563)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (6)
Vs. tgva8889: LL (6)
Vs. Tom the Mime: LL (6)
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (6)
Vs. Bucky: LL (6)

Bucky: Blooming Marsh (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=417816), Tukatongue Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423504), Cabal Therapy (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413625)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (6)
Vs. tgva8889: WD (10)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (13)
Vs. Gauntlet: WW (19)
Vs. Fable Wright: WW (25)

There was a lot of disruption this round and a lot of old tech being brought back.

I thought I'd post the results without a waiting period this time.

Gold: Bucky
Silver: Tom the Mime
Bronze: tgva8889
Last one standing: Gauntlet
The legendary twosome: b_jonas, Fable Wright

Land: Ancient Tomb, Bayou, Bazaar of Baghdad, Blooming Marsh, Caldera Lake, Cathedral of War, City of Traitors, Dark Depths, Dryad Arbor, Ebon Stronghold, Ghost Quarter, Gruul Turf, Hickory Woodlot, Inkmoth Nexus, Keldon Megaliths, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Workshop, R&D's Secret Lair, Scrubland, Shelldock Isle, Strip Mine, Syvelunite Temple, Tundra, Undiscovered Paradise, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Wasteland

Colorless: Arcbound Slith, Black Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Chronomaton, Emrakul the Aeons torn, Isochron Scepter, Karn Liberated, Lion's Eye Diamond, Memnite, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Steel Overseer, The Rack, Topor Orb

Black: Bitterblossom, Blackmail, Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy, Chancellor of the Dross, Cruel Sadist, Dark Ritual, Entomber Exarch, Liliana the Last Hope, Mind Swords, Shrieking Affliction, Soul Spike, Vampire Hexmage, Vault Skirge

Blue: Daze, Ensoul Artifact, Flash, Force of Will, Laboratory Maniac, Leyline of Anticipation, Mental Misstep, Zephyr Spirit

Green: Channel, Elvish Farmer, Form of the Squirrel, Helix Pinnacle, Tukatongue Thallid, Woodfall Primus, Young Wolf

Red: Burning Inquiry, Chancellor of the Forge, Chaos Lord

White: Balance, Cenn's Tactician, Chancellor of the Annex, Doomed Traveler

Gold: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Research//Development

Dr.Gunsforhands
2017-01-08, 11:40 PM
Er... would it be impolite to say that anyone can at least tie with tgva8889's deck by refusing to play any cards?

Fable Wright
2017-01-09, 12:58 AM
Er... would it be impolite to say that anyone can at least tie with tgva8889's deck by refusing to play any cards?

You would be incorrect. Lupine Prototype can attack if either player has no cards in hand.

Peat Bog->Prototype->Hymn and it can begin attacking.

b_jonas
2017-01-09, 04:55 AM
Good to see that disruption cards are back in fashion, even if that means I played Phage at the wrong time.

b_jonas
2017-01-09, 08:03 AM
TiaC, Can you explain why I lose to Fable Wright? I think the game would be a draw. Fable can use Mangara's ability in his turn 5 to exile my ordinary storage land, but after that he has no way to win. If he doesn't do that, I win in my turn 6 by donating him Phage.

Tom the Mime
2017-01-09, 08:18 AM
Fable bounces Mangara with karakas as the ability is triggering and because of how the ability is worded, the land is still exiled and he uses the vial to being back Mangara the next turn.

b_jonas
2017-01-09, 08:49 AM
Fable bounces Mangara with karakas as the ability is triggering and because of how the ability is worded, the land is still exiled and he uses the vial to being back Mangara the next turn. Ah, thanks. Tricky.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2017-01-13, 12:33 AM
You would be incorrect. Lupine Prototype can attack if either player has no cards in hand.

Peat Bog->Prototype->Hymn and it can begin attacking.

Oh, okay. I don't know why my brain decided it said Opponent. Thanks.

tgva8889
2017-01-14, 12:38 AM
Lupine Prototype is much less interesting if it says "opponent." Also much less playable.

Gauntlet
2017-01-23, 03:54 AM
Any idea when the next round will be, or the delay due to lack of entries?

TiaC
2017-01-23, 04:46 AM
Any idea when the next round will be, or the delay due to lack of entries?

I'm sorry for the delay. I'm starting at a new school and things have been a little hectic. I'll try to find the time in the next few days.

TiaC
2017-01-28, 01:25 AM
It has been quite a while, and I apologize. Round 28 is here at last.

CantigThimble: Hollow Trees (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4183), Quagnoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136153), Deadly Recluse (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373350)
b_jonas: Lotus Bloom (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/259.html), Lotus Bloom (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/259.html), Leveler (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/195.html)
Fable Wright: Mana Crypt (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420603), Eldrazi Temple (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=401710), Thought-Knot Seer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=407519)
Tom the Mime: Nether Spirit (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19693), Crystal Vein (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389476), Anvil of Bogardan (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3589)
ben-zayb: Sinkhole (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413648), Dread (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=140168), Subterranean Hangar (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19892)
tgva8889: Mox Emerald (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383019), Mishra's Toy Workshop (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/2014-holiday-card-2014-12-02), Garruk Relentless (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=245250)
Gauntlet: Crystal Vein (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389476), Mana Vault (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420604), Thought-Knot Seer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=407519)

CantigThimble: Hollow Trees (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4183), Quagnoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136153), Deadly Recluse (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373350)
Vs. b_jonas: DD (2)
Vs. Fable Wright: LL (2)
Vs. Tom the Mime: DD (4)
Vs. ben-zayb: LL (4)
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (4)

b_jonas: Lotus Bloom (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/259.html), Lotus Bloom (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/259.html), Leveler (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/195.html)
Vs. CantigThimble: DD (2)
Vs. Fable Wright: LL (2)
Vs. Tom the Mime: LL (2)
Vs. ben-zayb: WW (8)
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (8)

Fable Wright: Mana Crypt (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420603), Eldrazi Temple (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=401710), Thought-Knot Seer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=407519)
Vs. CantigThimble: WW (6)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (12)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (15)
Vs. ben-zayb: WW (21)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (24)

Tom the Mime: Nether Spirit (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19693), Crystal Vein (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389476), Anvil of Bogardan (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3589)
Vs. CantigThimble: DD (2)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (8)
Vs. Fable Wright: WL (11)
Vs. ben-zayb: DD (13)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (16)

ben-zayb: Sinkhole (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413648), Dread (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=140168), Subterranean Hangar (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19892)
Vs. CantigThimble: WW (6)
Vs. b_jonas: LL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: LL (6)
Vs. Tom the Mime: DD (8)
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (8)

tgva8889: Mox Emerald (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383019), Mishra's Toy Workshop (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/2014-holiday-card-2014-12-02), Garruk Relentless (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=245250)
Vs. CantigThimble: WW (6)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (12)
Vs. Fable Wright: WL (15)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (18)
Vs. ben-zayb: WW (24)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (27)

Gauntlet: Crystal Vein (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389476), Mana Vault (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420604), Thought-Knot Seer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=407519)
Vs. CantigThimble: WW (6)
Vs. b_jonas: WW (12)
Vs. Fable Wright: WL (15)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (18)
Vs. ben-zayb: WW (24)


Welcome CantigThimble, always nice to have a new player!

It's looking like a three-way tie at the moment, but I've probably made a mistake. If nothing changes, we will have eight cards banned in single round. I like how Gauntlet's deck really seems like it should do better than Fable Wright's but there aren't any games where it matters.

Edit: Now a two-way tie, as I missed that one deck doesn't actually work.

Fable Wright
2017-01-28, 01:41 AM
It's looking like a three-way tie at the moment, but I've probably made a mistake. If nothing changes, we will have eight cards banned in single round. I like how Gauntlet's deck really seems like it should do better than Fable Wright's but there aren't any games where it matters.

...Uh. Why, exactly, should it be better than mine? We're both two mana land, Mana Crypt, Thought-Knot. How does Crystal Vein's non-permanence make it better than the Temple?

Tom the Mime
2017-01-28, 02:10 AM
tgva's deck doesn't work. We've been over the toy factory before and it has to be a direct effect of casting/entering the battlefield. I think it was about 5 rounds ago and there was a link to why it didn't work.


...Uh. Why, exactly, should it be better than mine? We're both two mana land, Mana Crypt, Thought-Knot. How does Crystal Vein's non-permanence make it better than the Temple?
It's the vault vs crypt doing less damage

TiaC
2017-01-28, 04:13 AM
tgva's deck doesn't work. We've been over the toy factory before and it has to be a direct effect of casting/entering the battlefield. I think it was about 5 rounds ago and there was a link to why it didn't work.

Damn, I remembered the earlier use, but I thought I had said that a designer's blog isn't official. It looks like I actually said that we would use it in future rounds. Sorry tgva8889, I screwed up.

Fable Wright
2017-01-28, 05:34 AM
It's the vault vs crypt doing less damage

...Huh. I missed that.

Wellp.

Regardless, I successfully got Mana Vault banned despite it being terrible in this format. Mission accomplished.

b_jonas
2017-01-28, 12:05 PM
Wow. How did you two (Fable Wright and Gauntlet) come up with Thought-Knot Seeker at the same time?

TiaC: the match between me and ben-zayb is shown as a win to both sides; the match between CantigThimble and ben-zayb is shown as a loss to both sides; the match between Fable Wright and ben-zayb is shown as a win to both sides. Please make the results consistent with each other. (Perhaps you should use a different format, like a square table, instead of this.

Update: thanks for fixing it.

TiaC
2017-01-28, 02:54 PM
Wow. How did you two (Fable Wright and Gauntlet) come up with Thought-Knot Seeker at the same time?

TiaC: the match between me and ben-zayb is shown as a win to both sides; the match between CantigThimble and ben-zayb is shown as a loss to both sides; the match between Fable Wright and ben-zayb is shown as a win to both sides. Please make the results consistent with each other. (Perhaps you should use a different format, like a square table, instead of this.

This is what happens when I post a round while drunk. :smallannoyed: Apparently I gave ben-zayb the same results as his opponent in all earlier matches.

Fixed.

Fable Wright
2017-01-28, 03:39 PM
Wow. How did you two (Fable Wright and Gauntlet) come up with Thought-Knot Seeker at the same time?

For me, I just wanted to try and get Mana Crypt banned, looked at all the available Eldrazi I could use with it, and the Seer came up as basically the only one who could carry a game.

b_jonas
2017-01-28, 04:26 PM
Great, now I'm tied with ben-zayb, and I'm not at the last place because CantigThimble scored less. Welcome to the game, CantigThimble!

TiaC: For planning ahead, will round 30 be special, but rounds 29, 31, 32, 33, 34 normal ones? When will you announce the special rules? Also, what's the general rule for when we can start to put cards from newly released expansion sets in decks here?

Update: yeah, banning these high profile multiple mana sources will certainly have some interesting effect on the format.

Tom the Mime
2017-01-28, 04:45 PM
I think eye of ugin might be the only card that allows you to get more than 1 mana per card on the first turn now (not technically but the same effect for some cards). Just ruled out a lot of T1 plays.

b_jonas
2017-01-28, 07:00 PM
I think eye of ugin might be the only card that allows you to get more than 1 mana per card on the first turn now (not technically but the same effect for some cards). Just ruled out a lot of T1 plays. You can play Mirsha's Toy Workshop, Mox Emerald, to get four mana in your first turn from two cards, and spend it on Wurmcalling or Hunting Triad. I even have a wooden snake toy that could serve as a 3/3 wurm. With more than ten thousand Magic cards in the format, I suspect there may be other ways too, though most of them probably isn't possible to use in any reasonable deck.

Tom the Mime
2017-01-28, 07:26 PM
You can play Mirsha's Toy Workshop, Mox Emerald, to get four mana in your first turn from two cards, and spend it on Wurmcalling or Hunting Triad. I even have a wooden snake toy that could serve as a 3/3 wurm. With more than ten thousand Magic cards in the format, I suspect there may be other ways too, though most of them probably isn't possible to use in any reasonable deck.
Forgot about the workshop but the mox doesn't change the 1 mana per card.

TiaC
2017-01-28, 08:49 PM
TiaC: For planning ahead, will round 30 be special, but rounds 29, 31, 32, 33, 34 normal ones? When will you announce the special rules? Also, what's the general rule for when we can start to put cards from newly released expansion sets in decks here?

Round 30 will be a special round, it's every fifth round that's special. I generally announce the special rules when I post the round before. I'm always interested in ideas for special rounds, so if you have any ideas, please post them.

Cards from new expansions become legal for Vanishing Three Card Blind as soon as I can find an image of the card on WotC's website. Basically, when they officially release the information of the card.

tgva8889
2017-01-28, 11:37 PM
Mark Rosewater, the Un-Rules Manger, literally replied to a question about casting Thopter Pie Network with Mishra's Toy Workshop clearly implying that it works. See here: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/154963074968/if-i-use-a-mishras-toy-workshop-to-cast-a-thopter. Also if it was discussed here, I certainly can't find it.

But oh well. Guess I'll have to try again.

TiaC
2017-01-29, 03:36 PM
Mark Rosewater, the Un-Rules Manger, literally replied to a question about casting Thopter Pie Network with Mishra's Toy Workshop clearly implying that it works. See here: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/154963074968/if-i-use-a-mishras-toy-workshop-to-cast-a-thopter. Also if it was discussed here, I certainly can't find it.

But oh well. Guess I'll have to try again.

That's annoying, as the earlier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21374390&postcount=170) citation (markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/105882037433/so-even-though-acorn-catapult-doesnt-immediately) also was from MaRo's tumblr. I'm going to go with saying it doesn't work as the first answer was more direct, while the second answer just implied it.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2017-01-29, 06:42 PM
That's annoying, as the earlier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21374390&postcount=170) citation (markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/105882037433/so-even-though-acorn-catapult-doesnt-immediately) also was from MaRo's tumblr. I'm going to go with saying it doesn't work as the first answer was more direct, while the second answer just implied it.

I'm not actually sure there are mutually exclusive answers.

The big difference is that Acorn Catapult doesn't have to put tokens on the field. If you never activate that ability, it never does. Thopter Pie Factory, on the other hand, is nothing but a permanent that puts tokens on the field: the only difference between it an a "put X tokens on the field" spell is that the effect isn't immediate.

It's a weird delineation, but I think the difference here is between "put" and "may activate to put." Which, given that we're talking silver-bordered cards, isn't that unreasonable. :smalltongue:

b_jonas
2017-01-30, 05:59 AM
For reference, since it took me some time to find this out, Thopter Pie Network is a very recent holiday promo card (of the same series as Evil Presents), silver-bordered and premium. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/2016-holiday-promo-thopter-pie-network shows an image of the card.
Thopter Pie Network
2UU
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you're eating, create a 1/1 colorless Thopter artifact creature token with flying. Use Food to represent the token.
Whenever a creature token you control dies, if it's represented by food, eat it.
flavor text: They all thought her dream was just pie in the sky.
This probably references the card Thopter Spy Network (http://magiccards.info/ori/en/79.html) from Origins.

tgva8889
2017-01-30, 11:41 PM
But there's nothing stopping you from casting a Thopter Pie Network with Mishra's Toy Factory and never making any tokens with it, so really it's the same thing.

Given that Mark is one man and likely just thought the double restriction of "food toys" was amusing enough to think about, I'm certainly fine with the ruling that it can only be spent on things that generate tokens as a result of being cast or resolving of their own accord.

TiaC
2017-02-01, 05:24 AM
Results! Then, sleeeeep.

Gold: Gauntlet, Fable Wright
Silver: Tom the Mime
Bronze: ben-zayb, b_jonas
Reclusive: CantigThimble

Land: Ancient Tomb, Bayou, Bazaar of Baghdad, Blooming Marsh, Caldera Lake, Cathedral of War, City of Traitors, Crystal Vein, Dark Depths, Dryad Arbor, Ebon Stronghold, Eldrazi Temple, Ghost Quarter, Gruul Turf, Hickory Woodlot, Inkmoth Nexus, Keldon Megaliths, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Workshop, R&D's Secret Lair, Scrubland, Shelldock Isle, Strip Mine, Syvelunite Temple, Tundra, Undiscovered Paradise, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Wasteland

Colorless: Arcbound Slith, Black Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Chronomaton, Emrakul the Aeons torn, Isochron Scepter, Karn Liberated, Lion's Eye Diamond, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Memnite, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Steel Overseer, The Rack, Thought-Knot Seer, Topor Orb

Black: Bitterblossom, Blackmail, Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy, Chancellor of the Dross, Cruel Sadist, Dark Ritual, Entomber Exarch, Liliana the Last Hope, Mind Swords, Shrieking Affliction, Soul Spike, Vampire Hexmage, Vault Skirge

Blue: Daze, Ensoul Artifact, Flash, Force of Will, Laboratory Maniac, Leyline of Anticipation, Mental Misstep, Zephyr Spirit

Green: Channel, Elvish Farmer, Form of the Squirrel, Helix Pinnacle, Tukatongue Thallid, Woodfall Primus, Young Wolf

Red: Burning Inquiry, Chancellor of the Forge, Chaos Lord

White: Balance, Cenn's Tactician, Chancellor of the Annex, Doomed Traveler

Gold: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Research//Development

Bucky
2017-02-01, 04:51 PM
It's a shame that Thought-Knot Seer took down so much fast mana with it.

b_jonas
2017-02-02, 03:28 AM
It's a shame that Thought-Knot Seer took down so much fast mana with it. I think it's normal. The fast mana generators will get banned quickly anyway, because it's powerful in many decks, not only these. Most of them are already banned. But yes, it changes the format somewhat.

Tom the Mime
2017-02-04, 03:04 AM
I think it's normal. The fast mana generators will get banned quickly anyway, because it's powerful in many decks, not only these. Most of them are already banned. But yes, it changes the format somewhat.
I think there were 6 cards giving 2+ mana the turn they were played banned already (black lotus, blacker lotus, ancient tomb, city of traitors, dark ritual, lions eye diamond) in 27 rounds. Then 4 get banned in one round, with the only ones remaining being pretty narrow like the toy factory.

Also, I think it took surprisingly long to get rid of blacker lotus from memory.

b_jonas
2017-02-04, 06:19 AM
I think there were 6 cards giving 2+ mana the turn they were played banned already (black lotus, blacker lotus, ancient tomb, city of traitors, dark ritual, lions eye diamond) in 27 rounds. Then 4 get banned in one round, with the only ones remaining being pretty narrow like the toy factory. Hmm yes, I guess you have a point. (Technically, Treasonous Ogre also gives you two mana the turn you play it, but you can't really do that on your first turn. You did previously specify first turn.)

Tom the Mime
2017-02-16, 02:39 AM
TiaC, if you're busy with the new school, would it be easier to post the decks and people can sort out results from there?

TiaC
2017-02-16, 04:33 AM
TiaC, if you're busy with the new school, would it be easier to post the decks and people can sort out results from there?

Sorry, I put it off because I didn't have very many decks and then I just completely forgot about this.

Round 29 is here now.

Tom the Mime: Karakas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413782), Lotus petal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420602), Meddling mage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179547)
tgva8889: Mox Emerald (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383019), Mishra's Toy Workshop (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/2014-holiday-card-2014-12-02), Call of the Herd (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=29786)
Gauntlet: Karakas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413782), Lotus petal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420602), Meddling mage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179547)
Fable Wright: Devil's Play (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=368518), Mercadian Bazaar (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19894), Ensnaring Bridge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=425808)
CantigThimble: Swamp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ), Thoughtseize (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373632), Beckon Apparition (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366461)
b_jonas: Swamp (Do_I_really_need_to_link_this_for_you?), Encroach (http://magiccards.info/ud/en/59.html), Corpulent Corpse (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/98.html)

Tom the Mime: Karakas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413782), Lotus petal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420602), Meddling mage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179547)
Vs. tgva8889: WL (3)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: DD (8)
Vs. CantigThimble: WL (11)
Vs. b_jonas: WL (14)

tgva8889: Mox Emerald (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383019), Mishra's Toy Workshop (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/2014-holiday-card-2014-12-02), Call of the Herd (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=29786)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (3)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: WL (9)
Vs. CantigThimble: WL (12)
Vs. b_jonas: WL (15)

Gauntlet: Karakas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=413782), Lotus petal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420602), Meddling mage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179547)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (3)
Vs. tgva8889: WL (6)
Vs. Fable Wright: DD (8)
Vs. CantigThimble: WL (11)
Vs. b_jonas: WL (14)

Fable Wright: Devil's Play (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=368518), Mercadian Bazaar (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19894), Ensnaring Bridge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=425808)
Vs. Tom the Mime: DD (2)
Vs. tgva8889: WL (5)
Vs. Gauntlet: DD (7)
Vs. CantigThimble: DD (9)
Vs. b_jonas: WL (12)

CantigThimble: Swamp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ), Thoughtseize (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373632), Beckon Apparition (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366461)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (3)
Vs. tgva8889: WL (6)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (9)
Vs. Fable Wright: DD (11)
Vs. b_jonas: WL (14)

b_jonas: Swamp (Do_I_really_need_to_link_this_for_you?), Encroach (http://magiccards.info/ud/en/59.html), Corpulent Corpse (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/98.html)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WL (3)
Vs. tgva8889: WL (6)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (9)
Vs. Fable Wright: WL (12)
Vs. CantigThimble: WL (15)

Going forward, I see three real options. One, we can stop doing this. I don't think any of us want that. Two, I can try to be more on top of this. I should be able to do better than I'm doing now, but I thought that last time. (If we go with this, one thing all of you could do to help would be to link your cards so that I don't have to hunt them down). Three, someone else can judge.

Assuming I'm still judging, in round 30, all instants and sorceries have rebound and all creatures have persist.

Gauntlet
2017-02-16, 04:47 AM
Fable Wright should be DD against myself and Tom The Mime, putting FW on 16 I believe.

CantigThimble should be WL against tgva8889, since Thoughtseizing the Mox Emerald leaves tgva with no plays if Thimble goes first.

CantigThimble draws with Fable Wright, by Thoughtseizing Devil's Play and then exiling it with Beckon Apparition, but then can't attack through Bridge.

As far as I can tell, everyone should be WL against everyone, except Fable Wright's deck draws with the Meddling Mage decks and CantigThimble. That means we're on a tie for first between b_jonas and tgva8889, if I'm right.

Would it help to just put the decks up and let us sort the results ourselves, TiaC?

TiaC
2017-02-16, 05:38 AM
Fable Wright should be DD against myself and Tom The Mime, putting FW on 16 I believe.

CantigThimble should be WL against tgva8889, since Thoughtseizing the Mox Emerald leaves tgva with no plays if Thimble goes first.

CantigThimble draws with Fable Wright, by Thoughtseizing Devil's Play and then exiling it with Beckon Apparition, but then can't attack through Bridge.

As far as I can tell, everyone should be WL against everyone, except Fable Wright's deck draws with the Meddling Mage decks and CantigThimble. That means we're on a tie for first between b_jonas and tgva8889, if I'm right.

Would it help to just put the decks up and let us sort the results ourselves, TiaC?

Thanks for all of that, half of those I had right in one person's results and wrong in their opponent's.

It might help some, but I do enjoy working them out. I can do that if it's running late.

Gauntlet
2017-02-16, 05:45 AM
Thanks for all of that, half of those I had right in one person's results and wrong in their opponent's.

It might help some, but I do enjoy working them out. I can do that if it's running late.

You still have CantigThimble as LL against myself, should be WL for a total of 14 points also.

Fable Wright should be on 12.

Whatever's convenient for you. I'd say we should go for another round, then if you don't think you can maintain things we can look for judging volunteers. Maybe there's some way of getting an application or using the forum in some way to have everyone record their entries 'blind' so we don't have to have the organiser sit out of the rounds?

b_jonas
2017-02-16, 06:26 AM
(If we go with this, one thing all of you could do to help would be to link your cards so that I don't have to hunt them down). Oooh! Can I link to my own tweaked card list website that gives cards I use superpowers?

Also, wow, why do we have so many WL games?

Gauntlet
2017-02-16, 06:44 AM
Also, wow, why do we have so many WL games?

Everyone brought decks that disrupt on turn one. Whoever goes first gets their disruption off first and proceeds to win.

b_jonas
2017-02-16, 07:59 AM
Gauntlet, TiaC: If CantigThimble plays against me and he plays first, I think I can draw the game. In his first turn, if he plays Thoughtseize on my Corpse, then on my turn I Encroach his Apparition, and then nobody can do anything useful, and the game is a draw. If he plays Thoughtseize on my Encroach or does nothing his first turn, then I suspend my Corpse, and eventually get a 3/3 creature that can catch up with his 1/1 flier in damage, so I win.


Everyone brought decks that disrupt on turn one. Whoever goes first gets their disruption off first and proceeds to win. Yeah. And they still use Karakas instead of basic lands, mwhaha. Though in this deck, it wouldn't make a difference, because Encroaching the Petal also breaks it.

I welcome Lotus Petal in the format, it was long overdue. I had already thought of using it to get mana early (there's also the red and green Moxes and the two Spirit Guides availble for this), but haven't played the kind of deck yet. Perhaps you're using it because most of the fast two-mana lands have rotated out. This time I'm much less surprised that two players have brought the same deck.


Whatever's convenient for you. I'd say we should go for another round, then if you don't think you can maintain things we can look for judging volunteers. Maybe there's some way of getting an application or using the forum in some way to have everyone record their entries 'blind' so we don't have to have the organiser sit out of the rounds? We could commit to decks with cryptographically secure hashes in forum posts that we don't edit later, but the hard part is judging the results. I'm not sure anyone but TiaC is willing to figure out the results of all the matches. Would you, Gauntlet, do that every turn? It's somewhat time-consuming I think. (Update: this would be a bit slower than the current system, because there needs to be a time when the decks are closed, and then players have to post again to reveal their decks after that.)

Gauntlet
2017-02-16, 08:45 AM
Gauntlet, TiaC: If CantigThimble plays against me and he plays first, I think I can draw the game. In his first turn, if he plays Thoughtseize on my Corpse, then on my turn I Encroach his Apparition, and then nobody can do anything useful, and the game is a draw. If he plays Thoughtseize on my Encroach or does nothing his first turn, then I suspend my Corpse, and eventually get a 3/3 creature that can catch up with his 1/1 flier in damage, so I win.

Yeah. And they still use Karakas instead of basic lands, mwhaha. Though in this deck, it wouldn't make a difference, because Encroaching the Petal also breaks it.

Encroach can't take Beckon Apparition. It can only discard nonbasic lands. If he thoughtseizes your corpse on turn one you lose.

I took Karakas instead of Plains mainly because there's been a Leyline of Singularity / Karakas / Creature deck going round for a bit, which I figured was more likely to turn up this round than Encroach, when Thoughtseize is still in the format. Karakas also means I get to beat land + mana source + thalia, which otherwise I trade with. Against Encroach even if it is played, I still get WL against the deck so I'm not too worried.

Edit:


We could commit to decks with cryptographically secure hashes in forum posts that we don't edit later, but the hard part is judging the results. I'm not sure anyone but TiaC is willing to figure out the results of all the matches. Would you, Gauntlet, do that every turn? It's somewhat time-consuming I think. (Update: this would be a bit slower than the current system, because there needs to be a time when the decks are closed, and then players have to post again to reveal their decks after that.)

Rather than mess about with hashes, you could just have each player post on pastebin or similar with a timestamp before a cutoff date, then link to your list after the cutoff (so your timestamp is set to before any of the lists were revealed).

b_jonas
2017-02-16, 10:22 AM
Encroach can't take Beckon Apparition. It can only discard nonbasic lands. If he thoughtseizes your corpse on turn one you lose. Argh, yes. I'm stupid. I'm confusing all these cheap discard spells, there's so many of them. They look all the same, and in normal Magic games (not three-card), I don't play them as much as the large selection of cheap black kill spells, so I keep forgetting their details. Thanks.


Rather than mess about with hashes, you could just have each player post on pastebin or similar with a timestamp before a cutoff date, then link to your list after the cutoff (so your timestamp is set to before any of the lists were revealed). That doesn't work. For example, I could post two different decks that way, and choose whichever one works the best against the other decks.

Update: obviously whenever someone volunteers to judge a round, TiaC can just reveal the decks without judging them.

Update: now for round 30, with the rebound and persist. This one is tricky, I'll need some time to figure it out.

Update: this special round is tricky. I can't even guess what decks you'll run, and so can't tell how many rounds I should expect to survive. Will people be making fast infinite combos using persist? Use Tinder Wall to cast a four-mana spell first turn?

Update: oh wow, I just noticed that if the results stay this way, then Mox Emerald will be banned, so only Mox Ruby remains (plus Lotus Petal and the Spirit Guides).

Tom the Mime
2017-02-17, 09:16 PM
I'm fine helping with running things if needed.

And for this round b_jonas, the options from the normal rounds would still probably work but where is the fun in that.

Edit to b_jonas update: there's still more mox that can do stuff not otherwise possible. Like chrome mox with eye of ugin and eternal scourge or mox opal. Can't think of anything unique for mox opal or diamond though.

b_jonas
2017-02-22, 10:21 AM
Edit to b_jonas update: there's still more mox that can do stuff not otherwise possible. Like chrome mox with eye of ugin and eternal scourge or mox opal. Can't think of anything unique for mox opal or diamond though. I think the first one won't work, because Eternal Scourge is colorless, so if you exile it with Chrome Mox, then it won't be able to provide any mana. Mox Diamond could work in theory, but it seems to be very hard to use in this format.


And for this round b_jonas, the options from the normal rounds would still probably work but where is the fun in that. Is that because decks that disrupt by trying to make the opponent discard a card still work so well for round 30? I expect they still do, and they're what made up all of round 29. I don't think the other decks from previous rounds would work well in round 30 though, because the games will be much shorter.

TiaC
2017-02-24, 01:40 AM
I only have three decks, so no round now.

One change I will be making in how this is run is that anyone can post results. So, as soon as looks like the results are final, go right ahead.

Gold: b_jonas, tgva8889
Silver: CantigThimble, Gauntlet, Tom the Mime
Bronze: Fable Wright


Land: Ancient Tomb, Bayou, Bazaar of Baghdad, Blooming Marsh, Caldera Lake, Cathedral of War, City of Traitors, Crystal Vein, Dark Depths, Dryad Arbor, Ebon Stronghold, Eldrazi Temple, Ghost Quarter, Gruul Turf, Hickory Woodlot, Inkmoth Nexus, Keldon Megaliths, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Toy Workshop, Mishra's Workshop, R&D's Secret Lair, Scrubland, Shelldock Isle, Strip Mine, Syvelunite Temple, Tundra, Undiscovered Paradise, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Wasteland

Colorless: Arcbound Slith, Black Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Chronomaton, Emrakul the Aeons torn, Isochron Scepter, Karn Liberated, Lion's Eye Diamond, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Memnite, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Steel Overseer, The Rack, Thought-Knot Seer, Topor Orb

Black: Bitterblossom, Blackmail, Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy, Chancellor of the Dross, Corpulent Corpse, Cruel Sadist, Dark Ritual, Encroach, Entomber Exarch, Liliana the Last Hope, Mind Swords, Shrieking Affliction, Soul Spike, Vampire Hexmage, Vault Skirge

Blue: Daze, Ensoul Artifact, Flash, Force of Will, Laboratory Maniac, Leyline of Anticipation, Mental Misstep, Zephyr Spirit

Green: Call of the Herd, Channel, Elvish Farmer, Form of the Squirrel, Helix Pinnacle, Tukatongue Thallid, Woodfall Primus, Young Wolf

Red: Burning Inquiry, Chancellor of the Forge, Chaos Lord

White: Balance, Cenn's Tactician, Chancellor of the Annex, Doomed Traveler

Gold: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Research//Development

b_jonas
2017-02-24, 03:53 AM
I only have three decks, so no round now. I'm not surprised. Figuring out a deck for a round with special rules is much more difficult than for normal rounds. I can think ahead a lot for what decks I want to run in normal rounds, because the format changes only slowly. But for special rules rounds, I have to research cards all from the start. I wish you did that only every eighth or tenth round, not every fifth.

Also, YAY, FIRST WIN! I'll need a new one-mana suspend card now that I got Corpulent Corpse banned. My choices are primarily Durkwood Baloth, secondarily Keldon Halberdier, Ivory Giant, Viscerid Deepwalker.

tgva8889
2017-02-25, 09:15 PM
The special rounds are, in my opinion, way more fun. The decks for the regular rounds have sort of stopped being super interesting.

b_jonas
2017-03-04, 09:23 AM
Are there enough decks now to judge the special round?

TiaC
2017-03-04, 02:27 PM
Are there enough decks now to judge the special round?

Yes.

Gauntlet: Khalni Garden (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423547), Mox Ruby (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383022), Sprout Swarm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136042)
b_jonas: Swamp (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1544), Carrion Feeder (http://magiccards.info/sc/en/59.html), Clockwork Beetle (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/153.html)
Tom the Mime: Leyline of sanctity (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397677), City of brass (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=382181), Booster tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73939) (Sideboard: Greater Gargadon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=370560), Durkwood Baloth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370482), Path to exile (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=370408))
ben-zayb: Swamp (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1704), Dread (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=140168), Booster Tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73939) (Sideboard: Funeral Charm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108895), Smallpox (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113531), Molten Slagheap (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108860))
tgva8889: Forest (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423579), Narnam Renegade (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423784), Narnam Renegade (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423784)


Gauntlet: Khalni Garden (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423547), Mox Ruby (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383022), Sprout Swarm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136042)
Vs. b_jonas: WL (3)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (9)
Vs. ben-zayb: WW (15)
Vs. tgva8889: WW (21)

b_jonas: Swamp (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1544), Carrion Feeder (http://magiccards.info/sc/en/59.html), Clockwork Beetle (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/153.html)
Vs. Gauntlet: WL (3)
Vs. Tom the Mime: WD (7)
Vs. ben-zayb: WD (11)
Vs. tgva8889: DD (13)

Tom the Mime: Leyline of sanctity (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397677), City of brass (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=382181), Booster tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73939) (Sideboard: Greater Gargadon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=370560), Durkwood Baloth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370482), Path to exile (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=370408))
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (0)
Vs. b_jonas: DL (1)
Vs. ben-zayb: DD (3)
Vs. tgva8889: DD (5)

ben-zayb: Swamp (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1704), Dread (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=140168), Booster Tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73939) (Sideboard: Funeral Charm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108895), Smallpox (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113531), Molten Slagheap (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108860))
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (0)
Vs. b_jonas: DL (1)
Vs. Tom the Mime: DD (3)
Vs. tgva8889: WL (6)

tgva8889: Forest (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423579), Narnam Renegade (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423784), Narnam Renegade (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423784)
Vs. Gauntlet: LL (0)
Vs. b_jonas: DD (2)
Vs. Tom the Mime: DD (4)
Vs. ben-zayb: WL (7)

ben-zayb
2017-03-04, 07:42 PM
How are the Carrion Feeder + Clockwork Beetle and 2x Narnam Renegade decks surviving multiple (as in repeatable via Dread) Smallpox?

EDIT: Also, City of Brass will be sacced to Smallpox, and Dread reshuffles

Fable Wright
2017-03-04, 10:35 PM
How are the Carrion Feeder + Clockwork Beetle and 2x Narnam Renegade decks surviving multiple (as in repeatable via Dread) Smallpox?

Turn 1: You play Booster Tutor, they play Carrion Feeder.

Turn 2: You rebound Booster Tutor, play Molten Slagheap, put a charge counter on it. Turn two, they play Clockwork Beetle, swing for infinite. You are dead before casting Smallpox. You got one win on the play by casting Funeral charm off the Booster Tutor before they went infinite. You shouldn't have gotten that win, because if they played Clockwork Beetle turn 1, you lose both games.

(You live 1 more turn, facing an infinite/infinite Carrion Feeder and a Clockwork Beetle. You cast Smallpox. They sacrifice Clockwork Beetle to the Smallpox, get it back, and then swing for infinite.)

Against Narnam Renegade, Smallpox does nothing except blow up your own lands (which Dread does not recur because it's not an Eldrazi Titan) because when they return from Persist, a permanent has left the battlefield; they get the +1/+1 counter. These negate the -1/-1 from persist, making the Renegades effectively unkillable. Then they have lethal on you by turn 11 and can swing into Dread with impunity, as they return after they die. Meanwhile, you can cast Dread starting on turn 7, then need to swing four times to kill them—hence the coin flip win/loss.

ben-zayb
2017-03-05, 12:05 AM
Turn 1: You play Booster Tutor, they play Carrion Feeder.

Turn 2: You rebound Booster Tutor, play Molten Slagheap, put a charge counter on it. Turn two, they play Clockwork Beetle, swing for infinite. You are dead before casting Smallpox. You got one win on the play by casting Funeral charm off the Booster Tutor before they went infinite. You shouldn't have gotten that win, because if they played Clockwork Beetle turn 1, you lose both games.

(You live 1 more turn, facing an infinite/infinite Carrion Feeder and a Clockwork Beetle. You cast Smallpox. They sacrifice Clockwork Beetle to the Smallpox, get it back, and then swing for infinite.)

Against Narnam Renegade, Smallpox does nothing except blow up your own lands (which Dread does not recur because it's not an Eldrazi Titan) because when they return from Persist, a permanent has left the battlefield; they get the +1/+1 counter. These negate the -1/-1 from persist, making the Renegades effectively unkillable. Then they have lethal on you by turn 11 and can swing into Dread with impunity, as they return after they die. Meanwhile, you can cast Dread starting on turn 7, then need to swing four times to kill them—hence the coin flip win/loss.

Whoops! My mistake on grave shuffling. Still, how is Clockwork Beetle getting infinite Persist iteration? Persist checks -1/-1 counters, nothing else, which means creatures get to persist themselves once without -1/-1 counter removals. That means, T7 Dread still pretty much stops these creatures dead in their tracks.

You might be thinking of Undying? In which case, the Beetle will never revive if its last +1/+1 counter never gets removed (ie. if it got sacced to the feeder), but the Narnam Renegades come back as 3/4 in this case.

Bucky
2017-03-05, 12:30 AM
If a creature has a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, they cancel out and disappear.

ben-zayb
2017-03-05, 12:41 AM
If a creature has a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, they cancel out and disappear.
Looks it up

Whoa.. I didn't know there's such a rule. Nice trick! Alright, I concede my point.

b_jonas
2017-03-05, 03:15 AM
Wait, I sent notes on how to play my deck to TiaC. You've probably figured out right now, but in case you haven't, let me copy it here.

> Swamp
> Carrion Feeder (http://magiccards.info/sc/en/59.html)
> Clockwork Beetle (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/153.html)
>
> The general plan of this deck is the following. In turn 1, I cast the Feeder. In turn 2, I cast the Beetle. The Feeder can then feed on the Beetle any number of times, because each time, it comes back with a -1/-1 counter and two +1/+1 counters, which then cancels out to a +1/+1 counter, so persist will be active again. When the feeder has grown big enough, I attack for lots of damage.

Update: your decks are very interesting again, I will try to understand and analyze them more later, because they're a bit complicated.

Update: whoa, how does Booster Tutor with rebound even work?

Fable Wright
2017-03-05, 04:02 AM
Wait, I sent notes on how to play my deck to TiaC. You've probably figured out right now, but in case you haven't, let me copy it here.

> Swamp
> Carrion Feeder (http://magiccards.info/sc/en/59.html)
> Clockwork Beetle (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/153.html)
>
> The general plan of this deck is the following. In turn 1, I cast the Feeder. In turn 2, I cast the Beetle. The Feeder can then feed on the Beetle any number of times, because each time, it comes back with a -1/-1 counter and two +1/+1 counters, which then cancels out to a +1/+1 counter, so persist will be active again. When the feeder has grown big enough, I attack for lots of damage.

Just pointing out that this is bad sequencing on the draw against Ben-Zayb's Funeral Charm. In that situation, you'd want to lead with the Clockwork Beetle so that Carrion Feeder can't be taken out before it has a chance to go infinite.

ben-zayb
2017-03-05, 04:34 AM
Just pointing out that this is bad sequencing on the draw against Ben-Zayb's Funeral Charm. In that situation, you'd want to lead with the Clockwork Beetle so that Carrion Feeder can't be taken out before it has a chance to go infinite.Funeral Charm can also just force-discard whichever card isn't played in order to break the combo, but the Beetle can chump block Dread forever to a draw. So it's looking more like DL for ben-zayb vs b_jonas.

TiaC
2017-03-08, 03:25 PM
Send in those decks!

Again, anyone can post results, so go right ahead if I'm slow.

Gold: Gauntlet
Silver: b_jonas
Bronze: tgva8889
A pox on both your houses!:ben-zayb
City of brass, feet of clay:Tom the Mime

Land: Ancient Tomb, Bayou, Bazaar of Baghdad, Blooming Marsh, Caldera Lake, Cathedral of War, City of Traitors, Crystal Vein, Dark Depths, Dryad Arbor, Ebon Stronghold, Eldrazi Temple, Ghost Quarter, Gruul Turf, Hickory Woodlot, Inkmoth Nexus, Khalni Garden, Keldon Megaliths, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Toy Workshop, Mishra's Workshop, R&D's Secret Lair, Scrubland, Shelldock Isle, Strip Mine, Syvelunite Temple, Tundra, Undiscovered Paradise, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Wasteland

Colorless: Arcbound Slith, Black Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Chronomaton, Emrakul the Aeons torn, Isochron Scepter, Karn Liberated, Lion's Eye Diamond, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Memnite, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Mox Ruby, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Steel Overseer, The Rack, Thought-Knot Seer, Topor Orb

Black: Bitterblossom, Blackmail, Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy, Chancellor of the Dross, Corpulent Corpse, Cruel Sadist, Dark Ritual, Encroach, Entomber Exarch, Liliana the Last Hope, Mind Swords, Shrieking Affliction, Soul Spike, Vampire Hexmage, Vault Skirge

Blue: Daze, Ensoul Artifact, Flash, Force of Will, Laboratory Maniac, Leyline of Anticipation, Mental Misstep, Zephyr Spirit

Green: Call of the Herd, Channel, Elvish Farmer, Form of the Squirrel, Helix Pinnacle, Sprout Swarm, Tukatongue Thallid, Woodfall Primus, Young Wolf

Red: Burning Inquiry, Chancellor of the Forge, Chaos Lord

White: Balance, Cenn's Tactician, Chancellor of the Annex, Doomed Traveler

Gold: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Research//Development

Tom the Mime
2017-03-22, 09:49 PM
Have we got enough decks? If we do, would it be easier to post them (even without links) and take it from there?

TiaC
2017-03-22, 10:47 PM
We've been stuck on 4 decks for a long time. It's not really enough to run a round.

b_jonas
2017-03-27, 10:33 AM
We've been stuck on 4 decks for a long time. It's not really enough to run a round. Sad. Please send your deck to TiaC, players.