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View Full Version : Pathfinder Thought Eater (Mesmerist): Consume Identity Questions



Levism84
2016-09-14, 07:21 PM
I am already sort of upset with the Thought Eater (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/mesmerist/archetypes/paizo-llc---mesmerist-archetypes/thought-eater-mesmerist-archetype) archetype for Mesmerist effectively making your Hypnotic/Painful/Bold Stare unusable if you are disguising yourself as someone whose thoughts you have "eaten", but the wording of Consume Identity just leaves me with questions and no clear answers. I was hoping I could turn to the forums and GMs to get some clarification.

1) If a Thought Eater uses Consume Identity on a target, does he gain the benefits of Assume Identity, Assume Morality, and Assume Knowledge on that same target as a permanent effect or until he uses Consume Identity on another target? Assume Identity and Assume Knowledge both state a 24 hour duration or until Hypnotic Stare is used on another target, while Assume Morality appears to be tied to the Assume Identity effect.

2) If Assume Identity, Assume Morality, and Assume Knowledge don't become permanent effects until the Thought Eater uses Consume Identity on a new target, what is the point of magically detecting as the target if you can no longer gain the Disguise bonus or alignment masking? I can understand if Assume Knowledge leaves you after 24 hours, sort of, but losing the other two benefits seems counterproductive if you are attempting to pass yourself off as the target (which I assume is the reason this archetype's powers let you have the appearance, alignment, knowledge, and aura of the target).

3) If Assume Identity, Assume Morality, and Assume Knowledge do become permanent effects until the Thought Eater uses Consume Identity on a new target, can he still use Assume Identity, Assume Morality, and Assume Knowledge on a new target (gaining the benefits for 24 hours) while still being able to have Consume Identity from his previous victim active? For example, could a Thought Eater use Consume Identity on target A and later use Assume Identity/Morality/Knowledge on target B while being able to revert back to Consume Identity on target A? Could he then decide to Consume Identity on target B, losing his Consume Identity on target A, and later use Assume Identity/Morality/Knowledge on target C?

Any clarification would help. Thanks in advance.

Firest Kathon
2016-09-15, 04:24 AM
So I had typed up a complete response saying it all lasts 24 hours, then I read the ability description again and it all becomes clear. The key phrase is:

When the thought eater has consumed an identity, all divination spells identify him as (and consider him to be) the creature whose identity he consumed rather than himself.
So if he has consumed the identity of e.g. a LG paladin, he will detect as lawful and good, because the Detect * spells are all divination and consider him to be the paladin he has consumed. This effectively gives him the effects of the Assume Morality feature. You do, however, lose the bonus from Assume Identity, which I agree is counter-productive. To answer your questions:

He gains the effective benefit of Assume Morality, but loses the benefits of Assume Identity and Assume Knowledge 24 hours after the last use of Painful stare, or when he uses Painful Stare on another creature.
Assume Identity is super-helpful if you need a quick disguise. After 24 hours you should have had the time to perfect you disguise (disguise kit, taking 20 on the disguise check) so that the bonus is not as important. I agree that it would be better if you kept the bonus, but I see it as less of an issue. Especially at level 20 you have a lot of means to push you disguise bonus through the roof, especially since your opponents cannot use divination spells to see through it.
Yes. The previous benefits from Assume Identity and Assume Knowledge will end immediately. Assume Morality will also end, but the effect of Consume Identity gives you the same benefit, so it is not an issue.