Sharpshooter Monk

[Shojiteru]

So I was making a monk that would be hell for the enemies back row. Start with 1 level of fighter (Get that good starting money) then go all Monk. I sort of did math that told me Archery fighting style only gave me 0.7 extra dpr while dueling fighting style gave me about 1. It was against 17 AC with sharpshooter though at level 20. It'd have to start off human and take sharpshooter as first feat then level 4 gets mobility while all others go to dex/wis.

Starts off wielding longbow and at level 5 gets 2 shots with sharpshooter while it closes the gap between them and the enemy mages/archers. After that, it takes out it's shortsword so for the following rounds uses that with dueling fighting style along with martial arts, using bow when necessary but at this point, the monk would be able to reach anywhere else.

The overall idea is monk as being the mobile, hit anyone anywhere guy. At first it was just a woodelf monk taking 1 level of fighter to get dueling fighting style (plus 20 level monk sucks vs 19 level monk) but I thought having a ranged weapon would somewhat be good so I picked up the longbow, then thought I should probably want to optimize this damage as well so I looked at Archery and sharpshooter and Sharpshooter gets about the same dpr as my non-bow attacks with dueling. Extra damage done with Archery is less than extra damage done with dueling.

Enough rambling. Down to the question. Is this build (16 dex/wis/14con) better just staying a woodelf with a longbow for at most first round cause after that, he'll be up in everyone's face or go human to get sharpshooter for when the enemies disperse a lot or needing some ranged damage vs flying creatures or whatever else, perhaps scouting.
2nd question: My math may have been stupid (did it before bed so brain wasn't 100%). Would Archery be better than dueling in this supposed build?

[DivisibleByZero]

Or you could just be a Sun Soul monk from SCAG and have a ranged attack that can be mixed in with your melee attacks as you see fit.

[Shojiteru]

Or you could just be a Sun Soul monk from SCAG and have a ranged attack that can be mixed in with your melee attacks as you see fit.

Those ranged attacks seem a bit lackluster. They just look like they'll be taking up more ki and Sun Bolt would be the most useful but if they're only 30' away, they're in range to attack you and you can just walk up to them and hit them anyways. I see ranged attacks more as a way to either hit them while being out of their range or because they're too far out of your melee range to hit.

[PeteNutButter]

Those ranged attacks seem a bit lackluster. They just look like they'll be taking up more ki and Sun Bolt would be the most useful but if they're only 30' away, they're in range to attack you and you can just walk up to them and hit them anyways. I see ranged attacks more as a way to either hit them while being out of their range or because they're too far out of your melee range to hit.

You can double it to 60 ft with spell sniper, but at any rate if you actually want to take the sharpshooter feat then you definitely need archery style. But at that point you are not really monking around. You are just an archer fighter with a low ac. Your ranged damage will greatly outpace your melee with that feat.

It could work, but there is very little support for it. Ranger would give spells to help boost it, fighter moves and eventually more attacks etc.

[Shojiteru]

You can double it to 60 ft with spell sniper, but at any rate if you actually want to take the sharpshooter feat then you definitely need archery style. But at that point you are not really monking around. You are just an archer fighter with a low ac. Your ranged damage will greatly outpace your melee with that feat.

It could work, but there is very little support for it. Ranger would give spells to help boost it, fighter moves and eventually more attacks etc.

Both would take a feat either way. It'd just be between Radiant Sun and Spell Sniper V Longbow and Sharpshooter.

Being a monk with a ranged option is definitely not an easy thing to do in a good way. Even with sharpshooter, melee will still deal 2 more damage on average, but I'm just assuming level 11 against 17 ac though.

[Talionis]

Big advantage to a ranged Monk is your ranged defense is good. If dips are an option I'd think about Warlock 2 Monk 18. Elderitch Blast with Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast Invocations possibly a level more if you want to get Elderitch Spear as well. This is the most compact Ranged dip I can think of.

[PeteNutButter]

Both would take a feat either way. It'd just be between Radiant Sun and Spell Sniper V Longbow and Sharpshooter.

Being a monk with a ranged option is definitely not an easy thing to do in a good way. Even with sharpshooter, melee will still deal 2 more damage on average, but I'm just assuming level 11 against 17 ac though.

The bow also requires proficiency, either making you behind by MC or lose a feat and thus an ASI through wood elf.

I see what you mean, but I think its just a wasted resource, getting the feat. Is that better than +2 dex, which you would use for both melee and ranged? Not at all. That leaves the only other viable option the human fighter start. But there are so many feats that would help more at doing monk stuff that would see much more use.

A level 11 wood elf monk has a movement speed of 55 ft, which he can bonus action dash to move 110 ft and still make two punches. Double dash and move 165 ft. You mention getting Mobile feat making you able to move 195 in a round! The longbow normal range is only 150 ft. How far away do you expect the fight to start?

It is intentionally a weakness of monks (except sun soul) to lack solid ranged attacks, but trying to fix it by putting you behind on ASIs, monk being the class most needing them, is probably not a good idea. Especially when 9/10 times you can just run up and punch them. If you are fighting flying foes or something, then pull out the bow, but I wouldn't invest a feat into it.

[Shojiteru]

Big advantage to a ranged Monk is your ranged defense is good. If dips are an option I'd think about Warlock 2 Monk 18. Elderitch Blast with Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast Invocations possibly a level more if you want to get Elderitch Spear as well. This is the most compact Ranged dip I can think of.

When I was considering dipping, it was between Fighter, Warlock, and Rogue. Warlock was the best but due to Cha being a dump stat (8-10), Agonizing Blast wouldn't benefit as much. Could replace it with Devil's Sight though since Humans don't get Darkvision. Going 2 in though also means I could also drop sharpshooter and just go action surge..

I might be overthinking this whole situation though

[PeteNutButter]

When I was considering dipping, it was between Fighter, Warlock, and Rogue. Warlock was the best but due to Cha being a dump stat (8-10), Agonizing Blast wouldn't benefit as much. Could replace it with Devil's Sight though since Humans don't get Darkvision. Going 2 in though also means I could also drop sharpshooter and just go action surge..

I might be overthinking this whole situation though

At that rate just take magic initiate at level 1 and be pure monk. Grab hex as its best on monks for all their attacks, and get eldritch blast. Fixes your range issue and makes you better at monky business.

[Shojiteru]

The bow also requires proficiency, either making you behind by MC or lose a feat and thus an ASI through wood elf.

I see what you mean, but I think its just a wasted resource, getting the feat. Is that better than +2 dex, which you would use for both melee and ranged? Not at all. That leaves the only other viable option the human fighter start. But there are so many feats that would help more at doing monk stuff that would see much more use.

A level 11 wood elf monk has a movement speed of 55 ft, which he can bonus action dash to move 110 ft and still make two punches. Double dash and move 165 ft. You mention getting Mobile feat making you able to move 195 in a round! The longbow normal range is only 150 ft. How far away do you expect the fight to start?

It is intentionally a weakness of monks (except sun soul) to lack solid ranged attacks, but trying to fix it by putting you behind on ASIs, monk being the class most needing them, is probably not a good idea. Especially when 9/10 times you can just run up and punch them. If you are fighting flying foes or something, then pull out the bow, but I wouldn't invest a feat into it.

The plan was to start off level 1 fighter either way. Mobile and Sharpshooter would be the only 2 feats I'd get as human, otherwise I'd go woodelf and just stick with mobile. just figured I could go for human for that little extra damage from sharp shooter and only lose darkvision. Dropping the archery dilema means i could just go back to woodelf for that OP darkvision or stay human and go 2 fighter for Action Surge and grab mobility then use rest ASI for dex/wis

[Shojiteru]

At that rate just take magic initiate at level 1 and be pure monk. Grab hex as its best on monks for all their attacks, and get eldritch blast. Fixes your range issue and makes you better at monky business.

I'd rather do monk 19/ whatever 1 cause monk's cap is pretty lame. Fighter 1 seemed to give the most

[PeteNutButter]

I'd rather do monk 19/ whatever 1 cause monk's cap is pretty lame. Fighter 1 seemed to give the most

You do you, man, but I don't think avoiding a capstone in a potential 19 levels is enough reason to put you a level behind on extra attack, all ASIs, and all core abilities.

IMO you should take a level one dip into a class that makes you better at your core strengths or fixes a weakness. People take fighter 1 to get heavy armor and con save proficiency. Con saves are nice, but become wasted once you get proficiency in all saves, and you won't be wearing heavy armor. That leaves just the fighting style which is nice, but could be gotten elsewhere. Fighter 2 gives action surge, which is fantastic, but probably weakest on a monk since half his damage comes from his bonus action.

Monks [and rogues] are unique in that they have neither a rage or any spells to concentrate on. Rage damage only helps str so its pretty tough to build for that, but you can dip something to pick up a spell rather easily.

Have you considered two ranger? It would give you the fighting style, proficiencies, hunter's mark for a huge damage boost against high hit point foes, another spell of your choice, and the fighting style. You could shoot someone with an ensnaring strike arrow with your high wisdom, and just pew pew while they are stuck. Or take good berry to help the team etc.

What about cleric? A single level in the war domain would make your archery more viable 3/times a day. And boy is the party cleric happy that he doesn't have to cast bless, or you can shield of faith/pro evil yourself. Lots of options, man. :smallbiggrin:

[MrStabby]

OK, maybe not what you want - but if you want to be a monk with ranged options could you just pick javelins? They are simple melee weapons therefore monk weapons, therefore you can use dex when making attacks. Also the damage die will increase as well.

You wont be able to use sharpshooter so it isn't perfect but it is a feat free and multiclass option for getting half effective ranged attacks.

[Hudsonian]

I feel like you should ask your DM for a quest to find some boots of haste. Go Wood Elf Monk 17/Champion 3 w/mobile

Improved Crit + action surge + fighting style + 50/60ft of movement (doubled 1/LR) (I'm AFB so I might have missed the mark on movement)

Although, my favorite ranged hater is the same thing but with rogue instead of monk for that BA Dash

[Shojiteru]

I forgot about Hex and Warlock spell slots returning on short rest so that gives that extra damage in at least 2 encounters every short rest. Also can give Eldritch Blast to fix the ranged issue along with Devil's Sight for the human's vision and Repelling Blast for the Monk being a semi-controller.

Fits well with Monks getting all their stuff back on short rest. Damage wise, I think Warlock's recovery on short rest rather than long rest like ranger beats out the fighting style and Hex would trump action surge. Controller wise, it'd give much more options for a Monk rather than a fighter.

Except I'd go from 14 con to 12 con to get the 13 cha I'd need to multiclass.

[djreynolds]

War cleric is viable option, bless and divine favor and magic weapon will help out with sharpshooter. And ranger is also an easy dip. Just max out dex and wisdom.

You can do so many things.

[odigity]

Everyone keeps suggesting Eldritch Blast, either via Warlock dip or Magic Initiate. One person bemoaned the lack of extra dmg from Agonizing Blast due to Cha being a dump stat, but no on has mentioned the biggest problem:

You ain't gonna hit if Cha is a dump stat because your Eldritch Blast will use Cha for your attack roll.

My first 5e char was a Shadow Monk with two levels of GOO Warlock (I started as Warlock 1, actually, for backstory purposes). I had to distribute points across Dex, Con, Wis, and Cha.

I did enjoy the char. He was fun to play, but mostly because of Monk. It was occasionally cool to get Hex damage on a target while hitting it four times (attack w/Extra Attack + Flurry), but that's a rare ocurrance. The fact is, Monk already has plenty to do with it's bonus action, and if you hit the same guy four times, you're not maxing your mobility, which is a big part of your strength.

Most importantly, you're never going to hit anything with good AC with your Eldritch Blast. I only had a 14 cha, and I had to sacrifice some Dex/Wis/Con to get it there. It was not optimal, and would probably continue to suffer more as we gained levels.

Just use a shortbow. Also, remember that with a 60' spd and Haste from a teammate, you can move 360' in one round.

[odigity]

Multiclassing Monk is hard, but if you really want to, first off I'd suggest hitting the current Monk guides to see what they recommend:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377491

My opinions, off the top of my head:

Rogue (Swashbuckler) could be a good choice for 3-4 levels. You get some extra SA dmg 1/turn, you get the Swashbuckler's free disengage benefit (saving your bonus action), and you get Cunning Action -- while it does overlap a bit, it gives you one more use of your bonus action, and saves you spending Ki on two of the other three:

Monk BAs: Dash (1 ki), Disengage (1 ki), Dodge (1 ki)
Rogue BAs: Dash, Disengage, Hide

Combined, you get:
- Dash, Disengage, Dodge (1 ki), Hide

Fighter could be a good choice for 2-4 levels. Obviously Action Surge, and Open Hand maneuvers could be fun if you're going Shadow Monk (Open Hand Monk already gives you cool things to do with some attacks, so it's a little redundant, though not completely). The Fighting styles mostly don't apply, though you could use Dueling with a Monk weapon. Overall, you're not getting much, really.

Cleric could be a good choice because of shared Wis dependency if there's some spells / path abilities / flavor you really want for a particular build, but you won't benefit from the additional armor / weapon profs.

I can't speak for Ranger, as I hate that class. (I'll try it someday to learn more and test my bias, but not today.)

The rest are worse. Most importantly, which is why I want to end on it: Every level you dip (a) delays awesome Monk abilities (b) reduces your Ki pool, which is what powers the class. You will always want more Ki, and multiclassing conflicts with that.

Classes aren't supposed to be good at everything. Monk isn't designed to be good at ranged. The best solution to the problem is to simply make peace with that fact.