Your opinions on Flaw feats?

[Eldansyr77]

Hey everyone, One of my players asked about flaw feats... And i have heard that you can take them for a bonus feat (good balances bad) but is there a limit to how many one can take?

[eggynack]

The stated limit is two.

[SangoProduction]

By default, you typically only start with 2.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hey everyone, One of my players asked about flaw feats... And i have heard that you can take them for a bonus feat (good balances bad) but is there a limit to how many one can take?Flaws are in the SRD. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm Flaws are easy ways to get additional feats (the text suggests a max of two), and some people think they're far too easy to overcome, with far too small of penalties to the things your character doesn't particularly care about -- like a wizard with -1 to melee attacks and -1 to AC. But why would a character with those flaws be a primarily melee-centric character if it's something they're not good at anyway? Some also think that flaws devalue the human's bonus feat, which isn't necessarily true, as feats are so very valuable, and lots of builds (like psionic and incarnum characters) need tons of feats, and extras are always useful.

In light of those concerns, however, you might want to consider just giving your players a couple of free 1st level bonus feats and have done with it.

[Âmesang]

I like the concept of flaws, and I like coming up with roleplay reasons for why the character has 'em (Inattentive = character's vain, conceited, selfish, self-centered, &c.; if it's not about her, it's not important | Noncombatant = utterly disdains melee combat, finding it wholly barbaric compared to the finesse and splendor of the Art).

As such, when I had a character take flaws I went with feats that were good, but not necessarily too good… feats that could be removed for a flaw-less game without any real detriment to the character; actual "bonuses" instead of "I need these to exist." In the character's case, Master of PoisonsDotU and Spellcasting ProdigyPGtF; the former is learning proper poison application instead of the finer points of melee combat, and the latter represents being so dedicated and focused on her spellcasting that she's less aware of the world around her.

[AnachroNinja]

Flaws are a big help in my opinion for making early characters more interesting. It's easy for the low levels to feel boring with only one or two feats.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you want to give your players two extra feats for something that's close enough to be "free." Just give them two feats for free and be done with it.

[OldTrees1]

In concept flaws are a neat idea.

However WotC is worse at writing flaws than they are at writing feats. So use lots of "only with DM approval".

Personally I am a fan of having the players write their own flaws and then only granting a bonus feat if the flaw merits granting a bonus feat.

[Fizban]

Everyone's already covered my thoughts on flaws quite nicely. Traits on the other hand aren't so bad, since they give specific bonuses rather than completely open-ended feats. They can make up for ability scores that aren't quite where you want them by shuffling a +1 here or there. Aside from yet another source of Diplomacy bonus, the worst offender is +2 initiative for -1 AC. The Quick and Slow traits in particular are the sort of thing that seems great, until you actually apply it and realize the cost is one you are not going to ignore so easily.

[Willie the Duck]

Flaws are a big help in my opinion for making early characters more interesting. It's easy for the low levels to feel boring with only one or two feats.

Agreed. Especially if you are trying to build a concept that really doesn't come online at all until you have a couple of feats (especially if you are in a campaign where you can't choose human for RP reasons).

We finally are switching to 5e for a campaign (in which we are all drow), but when I thought it was going to be 3.5, I was pushing strongly for flaws, just because I had an archery-only ranger build idea that basically wouldn't make sense until I had both point blank and precise shot. Wait until 3rd level before your character can even start doing what they're based around? That stinks.

On the other hand, just like every other system with negatives balancing extra positives (GURPS, Hero system, etc. etc.), people instantly find ways to pick the negatives which won't actually hurt them. WotC did a crap job on flaws (UA was, admittedly, supposed to be experimental), but I think the problem would crop up regardless.

[Taveena]

I've had a lot of fun with flaws around DMs generous enough to work with me on them - when done right, they can add a bunch to the character's flavor (a character who is slowly turning undead resists healing on them, a divine scion struggles with constant visions distracting her from what's in front of her) - but, as a player, I tend to want them even when I can't bull**** it. The extra feats allow builds to come online all the sooner, so if your group is mechanically focused it can make a low-level game all the more fun. It is, however, a definite power increase - I'm inclined to say it benefits martials more than casters, but I could be entirely wrong on that.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It is, however, a definite power increase - I'm inclined to say it benefits martials more than casters, but I could be entirely wrong on that.Martials have to deal with all the crap that pointless prereqs on feat trees entail, so they need feats far more than casters tend to, but caster feats amplify the power and versatility of spells, which are much bigger and badder than things martials get, so the effect on a caster tends to be even greater than on a mundane type.

So martials need them more, but casters get more oomph out of them.

[Âmesang]

Aside from yet another source of Diplomacy bonus…
Oddly enough I had a character take traits that gave her both a bonus and a penalty to Diplomacy, evening it out. :smalltongue: Noble from Shackled City (modified to be more general than Cauldron-specific) combined with Abrasive to reflect her Suel heritage.

[Quertus]

Well, my favorite character I've created in 3.x to date had slow, slow, and unreactive, so I guess I'd say I'm a fan.