Any tips on getting my players to bookkeep?

[Zozma]

For the most part I feel like my D&D group is great. They don't try to metagame, they're generally very accepting of my calls, and they try and address problems with creative solutions that don't involve picking apart the system.

But they HATE to put pencils to paper, with a stubborness I've never seen before. I've given them spell and item cards, so the only things they have to keep track of are their slots and ability uses, their HP, and their HD, yet they seem adamant against doing so. One player--a self-described genius--insists that he will remember his exact HP total across sessions, which can be months apart. Others will sometimes confess they don't remember how many spells they've cast or shapeshifting slots they've used, and I've a sneaking suspicion that my casters will use cantrips over high level spells just to avoid keeping tally.

I've tried hardlining them; if at any point they don't know their HP they have 1, and if they don't know their slots they have none, but that makes them irritable and resentful. It throws me off because they're otherwise such a good group, but they're unified in the idea that using scrap paper shouldn't be a requirement.

[TentacleSurpris]

Roll up a character and tell them that you're through with DMing, and let one of them be the DM. If they don't like it, bust out the Monopoly play that instead.

[DivisibleByZero]

Index cards with paper clips.
The card has a name, like Hit Points for example. It also has numbers written on the edge.
The paper clip gets moved along the edge to an appropriate place. No pencils needed. Everything gets tracked correctly.

[Hrugner]

Keep track yourself, and fizzle their action if they're out of uses. They should eventually want to know if they can do something before they waste the action and start keeping track.

[JAL_1138]

You could extend the card idea you're already using to some degree and make cards for HD and limited use abilities. To expend them they have to turn the cards in to you. E.g., if a cleric has Channel Divinity 2x/day, they have two Channel Divinity cards and must turn one in to use the ability; return the cards after a long rest. Same for spell slots, e.g., they have 4 1st-level cards, 3 2nd-level cards, etc. It's a hassle on your end, definitely, and you shouldn't have to, but it would keep track of it. For HP, you could take a picture of their HP total (or whole character sheet) at the end of the session on a smartphone, assuming they're not getting a rest or healing between sessions.

One would hope a discussion with them would work, but it seems it hasn't. You could try again and explain to them how much you already have to keep track of as a DM just to make the game function, and explain that it's not fun for you to have to all their bookkeeping on top of it, and that it's causing problems in play that they don't write things down. If they still don't keep track of slots, abilities, HP, and HD, they're kind of jerks, but if you still want to stick with them you could try the cards.

[CursedRhubarb]

My group makes sure to keep notes because our DM likes to give verbal details and if we can't remember something we have to make History checks with DCs of 15, 20, 25 for him to remind us. Not being able to remember a key detail, like what shape a horse brand was or a password has led us to many bad situations so now we all make notes, so many notes.

[Zozma]

You could extend the card idea you're already using to some degree and make cards for HD and limited use abilities. To expend them they have to turn the cards in to you. E.g., if a cleric has Channel Divinity 2x/day, they have two Channel Divinity cards and must turn one in to use the ability; return the cards after a long rest. Same for spell slots, e.g., they have 4 1st-level cards, 3 2nd-level cards, etc. It's a hassle on your end, definitely, and you shouldn't have to, but it would keep track of it. For HP, you could take a picture of their HP total (or whole character sheet) at the end of the session on a smartphone, assuming they're not getting a rest or healing between sessions.

One would hope a discussion with them would work, but it seems it hasn't. You could try again and explain to them how much you already have to keep track of as a DM just to make the game function, and explain that it's not fun for you to have to all their bookkeeping on top of it, and that it's causing problems in play that they don't write things down. If they still don't keep track of slots, abilities, HP, and HD, they're kind of jerks, but if you still want to stick with them you could try the cards.

I like this idea. I have some poker chips and it'd be simple enough to put a bit of tape and mark them as spells or points. I think some of my players will even appreciate having a physical representation of their resources; that's part of the appeal of games like FATE and Savage Worlds. And if some of my other players resent it they might start keeping a tally the old fashioned way.

[DivisibleByZero]

That works, but the cards and clips thing works better.
One card can accommodate four spell levels worth of slots.
One card numbered 0-9 on top and 1-whatever on bottom handles HP.

Less stuff to potentially lose, easier to replace it you do lose them, and easier to keep straight between sessions.

[PeteNutButter]

That works, but the cards and clips thing works better.
One card can accommodate four spell levels worth of slots.
One card numbered 0-9 on top and 1-whatever on bottom handles HP.

Less stuff to potentially lose, easier to replace it you do lose them, and easier to keep straight between sessions.

Is there an app for that?
Dice for life counters. Wotc makes spell cards so casters can have a fistful of physical cards they can cast like Mtg.

[Temperjoke]

Keep track yourself, and fizzle their action if they're out of uses. They should eventually want to know if they can do something before they waste the action and start keeping track.

I like this idea. Frankly, it sounds as if the group doesn't realize that the basic work of keeping track of their stats is their responsibility. I can understand not wanting to count arrows, bolts, or rations, but things like spell slots and their HP is fundamental work. Other people in the thread have mentioned easy ways for them to keep track of it, but however they do it, it's their responsibility.

[JAL_1138]

That works, but the cards and clips thing works better.
One card can accommodate four spell levels worth of slots.
One card numbered 0-9 on top and 1-whatever on bottom handles HP.

Less stuff to potentially lose, easier to replace it you do lose them, and easier to keep straight between sessions.

Valid points as far as less to keep up with and less to lose/replace, definitely, although I think you might be able to get players to use physical tokens they have to actually hand in a bit better. They could be as reticent to move clips as they are to write--whereas if they have to hand in a token to use the ability, they can't forget to do it. Card+clip could be really solid for HP, though, since that can't be handled with tokens in a practical way.


Is there an app for that?
Dice for life counters. Wotc makes spell cards so casters can have a fistful of physical cards they can cast like Mtg.

The spell cards are quite good for having your spell list and descriptions readily accessible so you don't have to flip through the book (I like them a lot and use them regularly, personally), but they don't track slots available. You'd need multiple copies even if all casters hadn't been made spontaneous casters in this edition.

Using a couple of jumbo d10s for life-counters could work, assuming they'll bother to move them, although if HP is only a problem between sessions without healing opportunities, Post-Its, pics of the sheet, or DivisibleByZero's card-with-clips idea (assuming the clips don't get jostled out of position) would work fine.

[DivisibleByZero]

Anecdotally, I use poker chips for Inspiration.
When I do, the players use it. When I don't (didn't), they always forgot about it.
It works.

[Ruslan]

This is 5th edition, and as a DM you have a powerful tool - Inspiration. If you want to encourage <behavior>, just give Inspiration to players who <exhibit behavior>. It's even entirely RAW, as per DMG.
"Everyone who comes to a session with a fully updated and legible character sheet, gets Inspiration"

[Contrast]

It seems like you've already tried the majority of things which would typically be suggested.

If that doesn't work and they still aren't prepared to keep track of even the most minimal of information then I might suggest that D&D simply isn't the game for your group. If you're willing maybe try a more rules light system where you can keep track of everything relevant relatively easily and let your players get on with the bit of the game they seem more engaged with.

[Zozma]

This is 5th edition, and as a DM you have a powerful tool - Inspiration. If you want to encourage <behavior>, just give Inspiration to players who <exhibit behavior>. It's even entirely RAW, as per DMG.
"Everyone who comes to a session with a fully updated and legible character sheet, gets Inspiration"

I have a knee-jerk reaction against rewarding them for what amounts to basic etiquette, but I know that's psychologically more gratifying and less frustrating than trying to punish them. Something to consider, certainly.


It seems like you've already tried the majority of things which would typically be suggested.

If that doesn't work and they still aren't prepared to keep track of even the most minimal of information then I might suggest that D&D simply isn't the game for your group. If you're willing maybe try a more rules light system where you can keep track of everything relevant relatively easily and let your players get on with the bit of the game they seem more engaged with.

Weirdly, all but one of them are D&D veterans, and the two that have the most difficult time with bookkeeping are the least and most experienced with tabletop. The former is simply forgetful and might respond well to physical tokens, while the latter seems to find bookkeeping is an insult to his intellect.

[JAL_1138]

Self-described "geniuses" usually aren't.

[Vorpalchicken]

How about using monopoly money for hp. When they take damage, they pay up. When they heal, they get paid. When they can't pay, they start rolling death saves.
Could do something similar for spell slots.

[Tanarii]

D&D is a game of resources. At the very minimum, HPs. If they can't track the bare minimum of resources, it's definitely time to find a rule set that fits their preferred 'no resource tracking at all' style of play.

[mephnick]

D&D is a game of resources. At the very minimum, HPs. If they can't track the bare minimum of resources, it's definitely time to find a rule set that fits their preferred 'no resource tracking at all' style of play.

Agreed. They don't want to play D&D.

Try Dungeon World? There's still some resources to track, but it's a lot simpler.

[Sabeta]

Here's what I would do.

Keep track of everyone. I personally already keep stat cards for my players as I typically don't make my players roll too many dice. Knowing that Gar the Half-Orc Barbarian is trained in Axe Swinging and Athletics, if he tells me that he wants to bash down a door I typically just let him do it without a roll. The same goes for Tylinne the 200 year old Elvish Wizard trying to perform a History Check. I'm not going to make him waste time rolling if it's information I believe he would have.

That being said, if I had a problem player like TC describes I would just add slots and HP to their stat cards and track it myself. Players suddenly being unable to cast spells or dropping when they suspected they were fine would probably be really aggravating. In fact, I might go as far as to fudge some numbers for the sake of drama or punishment depending on how obstinate they are. One of two things will happen. My players will enjoy having less responsibility and the "thrill" of being completely unable to metagame as they can't know how many slots/health they have, or they shape up and start tracking for themselves. Either way the players are and/or me are probably happy.

The rest of the solutions presented in this thread, in my opinion, only serve to ease the problem. Not solve it.

[tombowings]

Here's what I do.

If you won't have it on your character sheet, it doesn't exist - whether its an ability, item, whatever.

If you don't keep track of how much you spend, all of it disappears, including arrows, spells, HP, bardic inspiration dice, whatever.

Players either get with the program or leave. Either way is fine with me.



Edit: You could also try OD&D and have everyone be a fighter. That would work. Or play 3.5 have suggest everyone be a fighter, rogue, or warlock. Or just move to another game completely. Barebones Roleplaying is a good option.

[Vogonjeltz]

I have a knee-jerk reaction against rewarding them for what amounts to basic etiquette, but I know that's psychologically more gratifying and less frustrating than trying to punish them. Something to consider, certainly.



Weirdly, all but one of them are D&D veterans, and the two that have the most difficult time with bookkeeping are the least and most experienced with tabletop. The former is simply forgetful and might respond well to physical tokens, while the latter seems to find bookkeeping is an insult to his intellect.

Carrots are nice, but so are sticks sometimes.

Next time, without telling them, track their resources and mid way ask each of them a question about how many of some vital resource they have left. If they give the wrong answer, the new, correct answer is 0.

Oh hey Ray, how many arrows do you have in the quiver?

Uh, I don't know I didn't keep track.

That's a shame, they must have all fallen out when you dodged out of the way of that trolls club. Ok, just put that at 0.

Doug, how many spells do you have? No? Ok you've got no slots left then.

[TheUser]

For the most part I feel like my D&D group is great. They don't try to metagame, they're generally very accepting of my calls, and they try and address problems with creative solutions that don't involve picking apart the system.

But they HATE to put pencils to paper, with a stubborness I've never seen before. I've given them spell and item cards, so the only things they have to keep track of are their slots and ability uses, their HP, and their HD, yet they seem adamant against doing so. One player--a self-described genius--insists that he will remember his exact HP total across sessions, which can be months apart. Others will sometimes confess they don't remember how many spells they've cast or shapeshifting slots they've used, and I've a sneaking suspicion that my casters will use cantrips over high level spells just to avoid keeping tally.

I've tried hardlining them; if at any point they don't know their HP they have 1, and if they don't know their slots they have none, but that makes them irritable and resentful. It throws me off because they're otherwise such a good group, but they're unified in the idea that using scrap paper shouldn't be a requirement.

Use spell points! (DMG 288-289) Way easier to track than slots; HP and SP, 2 numbers. Easy and simple

[BW022]

So... you put in dozens, if not hundreds, of hours prepping, reading, preparing, and organizing the game... and they can't take 3 seconds to mark down hit points and spells at the table.

I think you need to have a serious sit-down talk with your players and go over expectations. Easy solutions...

1. Don't prep anything. Read the module at the table. If they ask, say "I couldn't be bothered to read it. Too much work."

2. Do everything. Take their characters at the beginning of combat and you track all the consumables, spell slots, hit points, etc. and do it slowly. They'll likely get bored after the first two rounds of combat. Hand the character sheets back if/when they agree to track everything.

3. Bill for your time. Tell them minimum wage is say $10/hour. It took 4 hours to prep the module. That is $10 each.

4. Don't give XP.

5. Find another player who does track their stuff and puts in the effort. Give them bonus XP.

6. Track yourself secretly. When in doubt, ask the players "How many slots they have left?" If they are unsure or it is incorrect... just rule that the spell fizzles and they waste their action.

[CantigThimble]

Wow, that's pathetic. Personally, I'm strongly opposed to using carrot/stick mentality on people who ought to know better. I'd just tell them that if they want to play then they need to track their own resources. Offer them some alternatives like the paperclip and card and the poker chips but make it clear that if they don't figure out their crap one way or another then there isn't going to be a D&D game and you're going to need to figure out something else to do with your game nights.