Intimidation vs Other Options

[NecessaryWeevil]

Hi, so I'm building a barbarian for our new campaign and I'd like to have proficiency in a social skill. Intimidation seems like the obvious choice thematically, and possibly my only option depending on the build I choose. I've never used Intimidation before (never even played a Barbarian before) and it seems like a poor option compared to the others.

I mean, you could probably manage to use Deception or Persuasion in a situation where you might use Intimidation, and you can probably only use Intimidation when you're not at a disadvantage.

Also, there are so many situations where you wouldn't want to use Intimidation (in a marketplace with guard everywhere for e.g.) and it seems like if it doesn't backfire immediately then it will do so once you're away down the road and your target can call for help.

What is your experience with Intimidation? Any hints?

[Specter]

Intimidation would also have a much lower DC in some situations.

Imagine an urchin is passing by, and you want his apple. If you try to persuade him, you need a really good result to take his only source of food from his hand. But by threatening to kill him, it should be much easier.

[PeteNutButter]

The thing about intimidation is you have to be able to back it up. So at low level it will mostly backfire, but the fun at higher levels...

My goliath's go to saying was: tell me x or I'll rip your arms off. Make sure you ask your DM to apply Intimidation (strength) where appropriate.

It's good for players who good bored with extended social encounters as it usually ends the talking one way or another. It fits the short tempered stereotype of a barbarian, but ultimately it isn't as effective at avoiding fights. Generally if you can intimidate someone you could probably also beat them handily in a fight, which may not be the case with persuasion.

It'll greatly depend on the DM. I like to include characters who are more or less likely to be "persuaded" by various tactics.

[Ninja_Prawn]

What is your experience with Intimidation? Any hints?

My main experience with this is the quieter, charisma-based intimidation I sometimes do with my waifish half-elf wizard (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=691366), which is much easier to get away with in 'polite' settings.

Anyway. In real life, I'm totally not intimidating; I'm tiny and shy and conflict-averse, so my advice as a player is to really focus on getting into character.

Try to think like your barbarian. Is the merchant trying to rip you off? Does that greedy little pipsqueak think you're some kind of dimwitted loser?! Then just say what your barbarian would do/say. Let the DM call for the intimidate roll (it's much less impressive if you pick up a die and say "okay, I'm going to intimidate him now") and glare as you roll it. There may be in-character consequences, of course, but that's part of the fun, right? There's no point to imaginary town guards if you don't get into the occasional pretend altercation with them!

[Spore]

I find Insight to be a much funnier alternative. Strike up a simple conversation and fool the other guy into thinking you are a bit thick. If they attempt a lie or tell you the untruth just whip out your Insight roll.

"I know you lied to me." Rothgar grumbled as he cracked his knuckles. "Now, let us two be civilized gentlemen and talk this over. I pay."

What I want to say is that a single social skill is not really that great in an isolated environment. :)

[JumboWheat01]

My goliath's go to saying was: tell me x or I'll rip your arms off. Make sure you ask your DM to apply Intimidation (strength) where appropriate.

Indeed, there's a reason that Intimidation (Strength) is particularly called out for in the PHB when describing using different stats for skills. If you're a barbarian, use those glorious muscles of yours and get whatever you want/need out of people who wouldn't be worth killing. Try a good ol' fashioned one-handed neck lift. You must certainly have the Strength for it. Or dangle someone over the edge of a cliff, or a bridge.

If Persuasion is the long path and Deception is the side path, Intimidation is the straight-forward path.

[D.U.P.A.]

Strength is not the only factor to intimidation, you can intimidate someone with magic too. 4e had a nice system for surrendering enemies during combat using intimidate once below half HP, although it required absurd check, because you were targeting enemy's Will, but in combat enemies were hostile, which added additional +10 to the DC. You had to roll around 15 provided you focused on this skill. Of course the target had to understand you.

[JellyPooga]

The thing about intimidation is you have to be able to back it up.

This isn't strictly the case. Intimidation is the art of convincing someone that you're going to do something nasty to them unless they co-operate. This doesn't necessarily mean you actually have to have the means to follow through.

The most intimidating person I can imagine is not some frothing monstrosity; that's just scary. No, it's the innocuous looking man in plain clothes that says just the right thing, in just the right tone of voice to make you really believe that he is in fact a very nasty piece of work and will do bad things.

The fact is, whether or not he is a bad man is beside the point; he made me believe that he is. That's why Intimidation is a Charisma skill and not a Strength one (usually).

It's true that Intimidation is easier when you have the means to back it up; a hulking Barbarian is a good tool for this, as are some nice pointy objects, but they are by no means necessary.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Of course the target had to understand you.

...so I just spent half an hour looking for a demotivator with an image of a dwarf hitting an orc with an axe and a caption like "an axe to the face // sounds the same in every language"... but I can't find it. :smallsigh: Please imagine I just posted that. And then laugh, because it's funny.

Man, I'm so good at this. :smallcool:

[Tanarii]

The most intimidating person I can imagine is not some frothing monstrosity; that's just scary. No, it's the innocuous looking man in plain clothes that says just the right thing, in just the right tone of voice to make you really believe that he is in fact a very nasty piece of work and will do bad things.
I always think of the big lunk sweating and rehearsing his words before meeting the godfather, because he's so nervous. The implications were obvious, even such a physically large man was intimidated by the Don.

Of course, the Don had power and everyone knew it. So he wasn't (in that scene) really using the Cha Intimidation as such. But his son on the other hand, used it many times in that series.

[BW022]

Hi, so I'm building a barbarian for our new campaign and I'd like to have proficiency in a social skill. Intimidation seems like the obvious choice thematically, and possibly my only option depending on the build I choose. I've never used Intimidation before (never even played a Barbarian before) and it seems like a poor option compared to the others.

I mean, you could probably manage to use Deception or Persuasion in a situation where you might use Intimidation, and you can probably only use Intimidation when you're not at a disadvantage.

Also, there are so many situations where you wouldn't want to use Intimidation (in a marketplace with guard everywhere for e.g.) and it seems like if it doesn't backfire immediately then it will do so once you're away down the road and your target can call for help.

What is your experience with Intimidation? Any hints?

Lots of things...

All social skills are highly dependant upon the DM. Some DMs don't like letting them be used because they can break the plot or story. Some want you to roleplay all social encounters, making the skill itself useless. Take everything else with a grain of salt.

Most people rank the skills in terms of usefulness as: persuasion, deception, and intimidation. The thought process being that failing a persuasion check (usually) doesn't have such negative consequences.

This said for intimidation...

1. You can use it against beasts and often creatures which you can't speak with (languages). Persuasion and deception typically take a lot more talking to accomplish.

2. Intimidation might be faster. Persuasion and deception (as a speech tool) often take a minute or so.

3. You can often use intimidation after a failed persuasion or deception check. Others you can't typically use once one of them failed.

4. You can often use intimidation in combat, when enemies are unlikely to listen to a persuasion and deception attempt). Getting people to surrender or flee is often a good idea. Once combat has started, this is little to loss in trying -- other than losing an action. It is a great idea to try when it is clear you have won the fight -- many folks will surrender if there are only a few left, it saves party resources, and it often allowed getting information from prisoners.

5. In social encounters, try making the 'threat' something other than violence. "Does your wife know you hang out here?" or "I'm sure the watch would like to know where your guild is?" might be better than just threatening violence -- as the later tends to trigger fights and such threats can be more believable than you beating them up.

6. With #5, try getting information on people/creatures prior to threatening them. You want the threats to be believable or have a sense that the could be.

7. If you use intimate in combat, do it when you are "winning". Wait until you just critical hit an orc... then threaten the others. You can also take actions... say hack the dead orc body apart. If asking for a surrender, consider what "carrot" you can put into the intimation. Some creatures might be more willing to flee than surrender, or surrender if you say something to indicate that they won't be killed, or possibly if you shield them from their superiors. "I'm here to kill Zorak, not you. Flee while you can." might be better than "Surrender or die."

8. If you are going to use intimidate at the beginning of an encounter... I recommend doing it in a way in which the rest of the party are readying actions. Otherwise, it often allows all your enemies to get into position or take actions. I also recommend you use something like "Freeze. Surrender and I'll grant you mercy." such that your group can ready actions to shot at anyone who moves. Otherwise, if you say "Surrender and I'll grant you mercy." is grabbing weapons, running out the door, reaching for a rope, etc. surrendering? If your group doesn't act, they could be easily be calling for help, releasing a troll, setting off a trap, etc.

[Sabeta]

...so I just spent half an hour looking for a demotivator with an image of a dwarf hitting an orc with an axe and a caption like "an axe to the face // sounds the same in every language"... but I can't find it. :smallsigh: Please imagine I just posted that. And then laugh, because it's funny.

Man, I'm so good at this. :smallcool:

Enter me, the grandmaster of Google
http://i68.tinypic.com/2441b2e.jpg

You won't believe how I found it. I googled "An axe to the face sounds the same in every language demotivator".
Best part is I found where you found it originally. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478657-D-amp-D-Demotivators-X-X-Never-marks-the-spot/page6)

:smallcool:

[Afrodactyl]

I use Intimidation (strength) all the time with my half orc frenzy barbarian, who rolls in tandem with a drow rogue who also likes to use Intimidation (charisma).

So the cold blooded dark elf telling you just how fine a paste the orc will make of you, while the half orc making himself look huge, bares his tusks and growls in the background.

[Arc-Royal]

Indeed, there's a reason that Intimidation (Strength) is particularly called out for in the PHB when describing using different stats for skills. If you're a barbarian, use those glorious muscles of yours and get whatever you want/need out of people who wouldn't be worth killing.

"This STR-based intimidation technique has been passed down through the Armstrong family for generations!" *shirt explodes*

[Slipperychicken]

Threats of immediate physical violence do not carry as much weight when your target has easy recourse to agents of overwhelming force such as friendly law-enforcement officials. However, if there is no guard standing right beside your target, you might have better luck in the short term. If you can instead threaten something like tarnishing a target's reputation, then the same guards are not such a deterrent to intimidation. It's the same way that appealing to someone's moral ideals is not likely work when that person is a highwayman in the wilderness intent on stealing your belongings.

Social interaction is nuanced: Each approach has situations in which it might work, and ones where it's less likely to work.

[JumboWheat01]

"This STR-based intimidation technique has been passed down through the Armstrong family for generations!" *shirt explodes*

And best of all, that wouldn't affect a Barbarian's AC all that much. Unarmored Defense is amazing when you can deflect blows with your pecs.

[NNescio]

Enter me, the grandmaster of Google
http://i68.tinypic.com/2441b2e.jpg

You won't believe how I found it. I googled "An axe to the face sounds the same in every language demotivator".
Best part is I found where you found it originally. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478657-D-amp-D-Demotivators-X-X-Never-marks-the-spot/page6)

:smallcool:

Not to axe idiots (battleragers).

[Slipperychicken]

"This STR-based intimidation technique has been passed down through the Armstrong family for generations!" *shirt explodes*

I think it's more like strength-based persuasion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa5rW_AJw-U

[Markoff Chainey]

As a DM, I like it when my players become smart and use other means of solving problems then with "an axe to the face". In order to keep things interesting, the downside of the different methods of social interactions are important, IMO.

- Intimidation: a successfully intimidated person will not tell you the truth but what she thinks it is you want to hear... and she will take the first (save) opportunity she sees to jump back on you.

- Persuasion: a successfully persuaded person will "believe" in a matter logically as you explained it (the more far-fetched something is, the higher the DC) - this does NOT say that the person will act accordingly, though, because the person might be mentally too weak to put logic over instant-gratification, for example.

- Deception: Well, this one is rather obvious. Once the deception is blown, the person will be mad.

- Seduction: (its not in the core rules, but many players often try to pull that one) This one is very tricky to pull off right, because a successfully seduced person does not want to make you happy, she only wants to have her way with you and that can get very dangerous when there a multiple ways to reach that goal and the way to help you is actually harder than other alternatives. (I remember when a player tried to seduce a prison guard to get out and ended up in the deepest corner of the dungeon instead where not even any other guard knew that someone existed...)

If you keep this in mind, social skills become less an "I WIN" button, even with expertise and high bonuses, because they often create an interesting aftermatch.

[Spore]

Most people try "roll for social interaction" too much on important NPCs. Then DMs are bound to one of the following:

Intimidation: It never works perfectly. The NPC is coming back with a vengeance.

Deception: NPC doesnt like to be lied to. The NPC is coming back with a vengeance.

Persuasion: the NPC is offering a small boon of help. But depending on the rhetorics used in said persuasion wants something in return. This is more often than not a smallish bonus quest that slightly increases rewards.

Personally I would use social skills if I wanted to lead an army. If I wanted to trick people into following my dubious lead. If I wanted to press some money out of locals, get the best wenches, beer and rooms in an inn.

Mayors of small towns could be in your pockets, innkeepers dare not cross you. The small guardsmen looks up to you and wants to be just like you. But please do not try to intimidate the adult red dragon or trick the grand inquisitor. It won't work. You have to roleplay with those types of NPCs instead of rollplaying.

[Slipperychicken]

Intimidation: It never works perfectly. The NPC is coming back with a vengeance.

Deception: NPC doesnt like to be lied to. The NPC is coming back with a vengeance.

That's because generally players use these skills in ways that severely ruffle feathers and are not sustainable. They make threats that stop being valid once the PC leaves his sight, or they tell such bald-faced easily refuted lies that an NPC quickly figures it out and feels insulted.

[Joe the Rat]

I think it's more like strength-based persuasion.
Indeed. I was just coming to suggest that.
And now I want to make an Entertainer that extensively uses Strength (Performance).