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Mister Tom
2016-09-17, 02:37 AM
This is the discussion thread for the Ruslan challenges GITP chess game. All welcome to participate!

All except Ruslan. But only for _one_ reason.

The story so far:



Let's roll then. You guys are white...
Basic rules:

- No use of computers for analysis, ever. Human-brain-based analysis only.
- 3 days per move. Going slightly over the limit is acceptable (I, for one, will not make a fuss over it), but continuous and egregious flaunting of the time limits may lead to forfeit.
- Team GitP may continue recruiting new members as game is ongoing.

Moves get posted in http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498308-Chess-Ruslan-challenges-GitP&p=21211703#post21211703

Best of luck rigorous yet imaginative analysis, everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

Right, so. Decision time already!

The most common first moves are 1d4 and 1e4. I would be happy with either of these or 1 Nf3. If anyone wants to volunteer to lead us out through anything else then fine, but you will probably need to need to explain the opening theory!

Anonymouswizard
2016-09-17, 05:29 AM
Well I tend towards Pe4 here (I assume e4 is king's side), although I wouldn't be adverse to a knight move. I just like to free my king's side bishop on the first move, it makes castling less of a hassle if I decide to do it later and the bishop can be utilised in a few turns.

However, a knight move to block off Pe5 is interesting and outside of my normal style, so I'm willing to see where it leads. So put my vote down for Pe5, but I'm reserve my second preference for Nf3.

Mister Tom
2016-09-17, 07:21 AM
Well I tend towards Pe4 here (I assume e4 is king's side)... but I'm reserve my second preference for Nf3.

E4 is the kingside, yes. I suggest we use standard algebraic notation: for those not used to reading and writing chess moves,

http://www.chess-poster.com/english/learn_chess/notation/notation.htm

Anonymouswizard
2016-09-17, 09:54 AM
E4 is the kingside, yes. I suggest we use standard algebraic notation: for those not used to reading and writing chess moves,

http://www.chess-poster.com/english/learn_chess/notation/notation.htm

Sorry, I learnt that you use P for pawns, it seems to be standard here, I always get confused when I see no letter used for them. Ill try, but I'll likely keep using P.

Black Socks
2016-09-17, 10:04 AM
Hello. I may have some troubles with notation, having just learned it from MT's link, but I'll try my best not to mess up.
I also suggest e4 for the first move. My style of play tends to be 'strike first, strike hard', so I like to mobilise pieces early on.

Lethologica
2016-09-17, 07:51 PM
I'm happy to work with any first move, but for the sake of having a preference, I'll say d4 as I'm a tad more familiar with those openings.

Anonymouswizard
2016-09-18, 10:12 AM
I'm happy to work with any first move, but for the sake of having a preference, I'll say d4 as I'm a tad more familiar with those openings.

The problem is that our king is left open and only the bishop is freed. e4 frees both the queen and black bishop while leaving the king protected.

Lethologica
2016-09-18, 04:05 PM
We're into the last day of our allotted time for this move, so barring any sudden changes, I'm going to post e4 before I go to bed tonight (so around midnight PDT, GMT-7).


The problem is that our king is left open and only the bishop is freed. e4 frees both the queen and black bishop while leaving the king protected.
d4 is the second most common opening move and leads into a number of fine openings for White. It's hardly a tactical error.

For these criteria in particular:
-Leaving the king open: The e1-a5 diagonal is easy to cover. Bd2, Nd2, c3, Nc3, a3, there are many many ways for us to stifle Black's options there. If we were voting on 1. f4, then I'd be nervous because the e1-h4 diagonal is ripe for exploitation. But we aren't.
-Freeing the queen: The queen is influencing the board by protecting d4. Our most likely next move would be 2. c4, and then the queen will have an open diagonal. However we proceed, the queen almost certainly won't move before move 5, at which point it will have ample room to maneuver anyway.

Consider an ordinary opening like:
1. d4 d5
2. c4 e6
3. Nf3 Bb4+
4. Nc3 Nf6
5. e3 Nc6
6. Bd3 dxc4
7. Bxc4 0-0
8. 0-0 Bxc3
9. bxc3

Leaving Black the option of ...Bb4+ hardly hampered our opening at all.

Indeed, in some sense d4 is a more staid and defensive move than e4, since c4-d4-e3 is an effortless structure to build practically no matter what the opponent does, while e4 invites a variety of attacks.

Like I said, though, I'm quite willing to work with any opening move.

Lethologica
2016-09-19, 11:18 AM
1. e4 e5

The deadline for the next move is 8:15 AM on Thursday the 22nd, PDT.

Nf3 is the most common second move in this position. Some other standard moves are Nc3, Bc4, and f4. More unconventional options include b3, c3, d3, Be2, c4, and d4.

Mister Tom
2016-09-19, 01:16 PM
If someone has familiarity with the king's gambit, then we could go for that- our five Brains should help with the sharp analysis it often leads to- but I've never played it.

Otherwise I vote 2Nf3

Anonymouswizard
2016-09-19, 02:11 PM
This is the opening of most games I play, so I probably shouldn't be regarded too highly as I might miss openings.

But my vote is for:
2 Nf3

It's what I'd do in real life.

Rama
2016-09-19, 02:16 PM
Hey all, happy to jump in.

2. Nf3 works for me.

Lethologica
2016-09-19, 02:23 PM
I have some vague experience with king's gambit, but no special focus on it. Playing it would be fun, though, so I'll vote for 2. f4 to balance the vote. To me those are the 'correct' options--Nf3 for fundamental soundness and f4 for attacking chances.

EDIT: Well, that didn't balance the vote at all, thanks to some ninjas. :smalltongue:

Cuthalion
2016-09-19, 04:14 PM
Yeah, Nf3. If he's good enough to challenge us to chess we probably shouldn't use King's Gambit. It's less that it gets sharp than that if someone knows how to play against it it's not a very good opening.

Lethologica
2016-09-19, 04:30 PM
On the one hand, he's probably not Bobby Fischer, who famously declared that the King's Gambit was busted and had a defense named after him to prove it. On the other hand, we're also probably not Bobby Fischer, who subsequently played the King's Gambit successfully himself. Bit of a wash there. :smallbiggrin:

Off-the-wall musings aside, Nf3 is pretty well carrying the day. Shall I post it tonight?

Mister Tom
2016-09-19, 05:57 PM
Seems reasonable

Black Socks
2016-09-19, 06:00 PM
Another vote of support for Nf3.

pendell
2016-09-19, 06:18 PM
Just asking for my own edification: what about starting with d4? We'd be putting his pawn under threat. Sure, he can take the pawn, but then his center pawns are doubled. We give up a little bit of material in exchange for a slightly better position. Oh, yes. We could also immediately recapture the pawn with the queen, advancing her to the center of the board.

If he declines we've got that much more pressure on the center.

ETA: I'm following the action via Chess Editor (https://en.lichess.org/editor)

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-09-19, 07:06 PM
Just asking for my own edification: what about starting with d4? We'd be putting his pawn under threat. Sure, he can take the pawn, but then his center pawns are doubled. We give up a little bit of material in exchange for a slightly better position. Oh, yes. We could also immediately recapture the pawn with the queen, advancing her to the center of the board.

If he declines we've got that much more pressure on the center.

ETA: I'm following the action via Chess Editor (https://en.lichess.org/editor)

Respectfully,

Brian P.
(1) An extra pawn that is doubled is not a weakness in itself; it's an advantage that merely isn't as good as an extra pawn that is not doubled. So we take for granted that we're retaking with the queen, which is an equal material trade that centralizes the queen. Well and good, but...

(2) Early queen movement creates awkward reactive play. Consider what happens after 2. d4 exd4 3. Qxd4 Nc6 (https://lichess.org/editor/r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/8/Q3P3/8/PPP2PPP/RNB1KBNR_w_KQkq_-). Now the queen has to move elsewhere and Black gains tempo in his development; he'll have two minor pieces developed before you move your first minor piece. It's also easy to end up with your queen trapped outright if you aren't careful; take for example the disastrous response 4. Qc3??? Bb4. A typical continuation sees instead 4. Qa4, but this square is only marginally better than d1, and you've still given up tempo for it (as well as the potential for better use of your d pawn).

(3) We aren't going to lose the opportunity to advance d4, so there's no need to rush it; we can instead take our time and prepare to make that advance when it will be more effective. The Scotch Game opening proceeds 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 (https://lichess.org/editor/r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/4p3/3PP3/5N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQKB1R_w_KQkq_-); if nothing else, this prevents ...Nc6 being used to gain tempo as seen in (2). Other openings advance d4 later on, after more preparatory development and pawn moves. This (https://lichess.org/editor/r1q1r1k1/1bp1bppp/p1np1n2/1p2p3/3PP3/1BP2N2/PPQN1PPP/R1B1R1K1_w_KQkq_-) is a sort-of-conventional Ruy Lopez position (best I can do from memory) where d4 was advanced around move 12-14, supported by c3 and Nf3, and with Qc2, Nd2, and Re1 guarding the e pawn. With that support, d4 is a strength rather than a vulnerability.

(Thanks for bringing up the lichess board editor, btw; I only remembered the analysis board, which of course we can't use, but this is perfect.)

Cuthalion
2016-09-20, 10:33 AM
Italian, Ruy Lopez, or Scotch?

Mister Tom
2016-09-20, 12:25 PM
Italian, Ruy Lopez, or Scotch?

Yah. Votes Ruy Lopez

Lethologica
2016-09-20, 12:28 PM
When in doubt, go for the stiffest drink. (Still no strong preference, but saying d4 anyway.)

Anonymouswizard
2016-09-20, 01:14 PM
for our third move I vote d4.

pendell
2016-09-20, 01:26 PM
Okay, why d4 as opposed to B5? Again, for my own edification.

Also, how exactly do you save a position in the chess editor? Mine keeps resetting every time I refresh.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Cuthalion
2016-09-20, 02:02 PM
Try saving the input string on the editor, maybe?

Bb5, Bc4, and d4 are all valid options and lead to their own lines. bc4 is fairly sharp, can be very good against new players but less fun against good players. d4 typically leads to pawn exchange on d4, and potentially horse exchange as well. bb5 is probably the most common move here, setting up for the famous Ruy Lopez defence

Lethologica
2016-09-20, 02:22 PM
re Lichess: There's a URL box below the board. Copy that URL if you want to reload the same position. You can also grab the FEN and input it after reloading the page.

Cuth means Bb5, Bc4, and d4. Bc4 was actually known for being a fairly quiet opening--hence the name of its most common variation, Giuoco Piano. There are gambit followups like 4. b4 or 4. d4, though. Cuth is correct that all three moves are valid and have various opening lines. Scotch (d4) is probably the simplest of the three since it's easy to relieve tension on the board by exchanging on d4; Ruy Lopez (Bb5) is undoubtedly the deepest.

Cuthalion
2016-09-20, 02:35 PM
Sorry, I was in a hurry and messed up.

I've very rarely seen people play the giuoco. Admittedly, I don't use it that much, and most people that use it against me are trying for the lolfriedliver attack.

It's quiet if people know how to play it, certainly. Most people haven't studied it very much at all. This includes me.

Black Socks
2016-09-21, 05:51 PM
I suggest Bb5. We'll either get a knight or a queen out of the equation.

Lethologica
2016-09-21, 06:16 PM
Ruslan won't hand us his queen, and his queen isn't the piece behind the pin anyway. Would we want to exchange away the bishop? I would automatically play 4. Ba4 rather than 4. Bxc6, but I suppose it isn't unsound.

That's a tie vote with two days to go. No rush.

Lethologica
2016-09-23, 02:01 AM
No activity either, though. All right, I'm changing my vote to Bb5 so we'll have a move in. Let's take a trip to Spain.

Mister Tom
2016-09-23, 12:26 PM
Righty ho.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6

candidate moves are 4Nxc6 ( exchange variation) and 4 Ba4 ( probably leading to the closed variation).

I'd prefer the latter. Worth noting that 4 Nxc6 bxc6 5Nxe5? Doesn't win a pawn because 5...Qg5 forks knight and g2 pawn.

Lethologica
2016-09-23, 02:44 PM
I think the more solid refutation is 5. ...Qd4, forking the knight on e5 and the pawn on e4; taking the g2 pawn can get awkward after Rg1, making it hard to gracefully consolidate the material advantage.

Voting for Ba4, regardless.

Cuthalion
2016-09-23, 03:43 PM
I'm fine sticking with tradition. Ba4.

Mister Tom
2016-09-24, 06:47 AM
I think the more solid refutation is 5. ...Qd4, forking the knight on e5 and the pawn on e4; taking the g2 pawn can get awkward after Rg1, making it hard to gracefully consolidate the material advantage.

Voting for Ba4, regardless.

...but not if you played 4... bxc6! :smallwink: regardless, it doesn't look like we're going there, and yeah, 4...dxc6 is stronger, isn't it?

Anonymouswizard
2016-09-24, 10:54 AM
Throwing my vote in for Ba4. I've seen this plenty of times, I bet our next move is going to be Bb3.

Lethologica
2016-09-24, 11:41 AM
...but not if you played 4... bxc6! :smallwink: regardless, it doesn't look like we're going there, and yeah, 4...dxc6 is stronger, isn't it?
After 4. ...bxc6 5. Nxe5, there's always 5. ...Qe7, after which either the knight or the pawn will inevitably drop.

But yah, I expect ...dxc6 freeing the light-squared bishop.

Mister Tom
2016-09-25, 03:51 AM
Looks like Ba4 then!

Lethologica
2016-09-25, 11:53 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6

Next move due on Wednesday at 7:05 PM PDT.

I would castle here. Plenty of counterplay if Ruslan chooses ...Nxe4. d3 is safe but slow; Nc3 is awkward because we want to play c3.

Mister Tom
2016-09-26, 03:13 AM
I concur. O-0

Cuthalion
2016-09-27, 11:18 AM
Agreed. gsidfhgfg

Lethologica
2016-09-28, 02:05 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5

Next move due on Saturday at 11:07 AM PDT.

Fairly automatic move. Unless someone has an incredible case, I'll move Bb3 tonight.

Mister Tom
2016-09-28, 02:19 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5

Next move due on Saturday at 11:07 AM PDT.

Fairly automatic move. Unless someone has an incredible case, I'll move Bb3 tonight.

They don't.

Lethologica
2016-09-28, 05:04 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7

Next move due on Saturday at 2:53 PM PDT.

Is Re1 fine here? We're wandering out of my opening comfort zone, which tells you about how much Ruy Lopez I've studied.

There's always d3. I suppose it's a necessary prelude to Nd2, assuming c3-d4 is still the plan.

pendell
2016-09-28, 06:11 PM
Never mind, I've fixed my board.

ETA: This is what I see (https://en.lichess.org/editor/r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R_w_KQkq_-). Is that correct?

It looks to me as if he's developed his position a bit more than we have at this point. I'd like some more pawn action -- but I guess we can do that after Re1, thereby putting some pressure on the e-file. He hasn't castled yet, so he has to think about that.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-09-28, 08:36 PM
Never mind, I've fixed my board.

ETA: This is what I see (https://en.lichess.org/editor/r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R_w_KQkq_-). Is that correct?

It looks to me as if he's developed his position a bit more than we have at this point. I'd like some more pawn action -- but I guess we can do that after Re1, thereby putting some pressure on the e-file. He hasn't castled yet, so he has to think about that.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
Your position at the URL is the board after 2. ...Nc6. It sounds like you have the correct position (https://lichess.org/editor/r2qkb1r/1bpp1ppp/p1n2n2/1p2p3/4P3/1B3N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQ1RK1_w_KQkq_-) on the screen in front of you, though.

-

I looked at the position again. To me, Black's moves that are potentially annoying right now are ...Nxe4, ...Nd4, ...Na5, and ...a5.

I think ...Nxe4 can still be answered by Re1, as Black's e pawn must hang eventually: the continuation I see is 7. c3 Nxe4 8. Re1 d5 (if 8. ...Na5 then 9. Bc2 and both e4 and e5 are threatened) 9. d3 Nf6 10. Nxe5.

So I'm more worried about ...Nd4 bringing pressure on b3, f3, and e4 simultaneously (by opening up the bishop on b7). I don't like exchanging on d4, either; the pawn structure looks dire after 7. Re1 Nd4 8. Nxd4 exd4 8. d3 c5. So I value c3 for preventing ...Nd4.

I think c3 also answers ...Na5 (as Bc2 guards our e-pawn) and preempts ...a5.

...Bc5 is a possibility, taking advantage of our desire to move Re1 soon (which leaves the f-pawn weak). I think ...Bc5 would force us to play d3, but that doesn't mean we have to play it now.

For now I'm going to vote c3. But like I said, this is the move where I lose the opening lines, so don't take my word for it.

pendell
2016-09-29, 08:16 AM
I guess the reason I'm not liking Re1 is because it's an empty threat. If by chance we do wind up using that rook to answer an exchange, we've got a rook right there int he middle of the board, dangerously exposed and vulnerable to knights, bishops, pawns, you name it. Not having diagonals, it's not very powerful in the midgame. If the rook is used in actual combat it's going to be chased off the middle of the board, and that will cost us tempo while permitting Ruslan to develop his pieces in the center naturally.

So I'm thinking we should use our pawns, knights , or bishops to put more pressure on the center at this time.

But others here have clearly studied this opening more than I have so I'll defer to their opinions.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Cuthalion
2016-09-29, 10:50 AM
I'll vote for c3, opening up a potential retreat for the bishop and setting up for a possible d4.

@pendell the rook move is a good one. It's not usually that useful short term, but having the rook there is generally excellent down the road. It helps control the center,

No we actually should probably do Re1. The pawn needs protection, and we can Nc3 if he pushes that.

But yeah. The rook move frees up space for the king, helps a lot with the E slot, can be doubled up with a queen fairly easily, and can help control the center.

Mister Tom
2016-09-29, 06:07 PM
I looked at the position again. To me, Black's moves that are potentially annoying right now are ...Nxe4, ...Nd4, ...Na5, and ...a5.

I think ...Nxe4 can still be answered by Re1, as Black's e pawn must hang eventually: the continuation I see is 7. c3 Nxe4 8. Re1 d5 (if 8. ...Na5 then 9. Bc2 and both e4 and e5 are threatened) 9. d3 Nf6 10. Nxe5.

Agree 7 c3- preparing d4 - is playable.
I actually think 8 d4 in reply to 7... Nxe4- it looks like we lose a pawn but we have a big lead in development which is very dangerous for Black. Play might continue 8...exd4 9 Re1 and we have a lot of pieces that can point at the kingside.

Lethologica
2016-09-30, 11:14 PM
Move is due tomorrow afternoon. We're tied. Any input?

Mister Tom
2016-10-01, 02:39 AM
Ill see if I can get some analysis in of Re1...

Lethologica
2016-10-01, 04:31 PM
Went with c3 at the last of it.

Lethologica
2016-10-01, 10:50 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4

Well, I guess we're doing this now after all.

Mister Tom
2016-10-02, 02:28 AM
It's exciting!

Any other candidate move than Re1 or d4?

Come to think of it, does anyone have a mental checklist of considerations they use?

Lethologica
2016-10-03, 01:27 PM
Not much beyond "what is he trying to do to me?" and "what can I do to him?" for me.

Perhaps as a consequence of that I'm more used to cautious play, which is why I lean towards Re1, but both moves have merit. I don't think there's another strong possibility--those are the only two pieces with any real active moves.

Mister Tom
2016-10-03, 04:55 PM
Ok. Me neither! I guess looking for a book about it would be agains the spirit of the game, but I think there is one in " better chess for average players " which is in the house somewhere, and I'd optimistically aspire to that.

Anyhow, I've had a look at 8Re1 and for Most of black's responses I think We can happily play 9d4 anyway- so a transposition seems likely. The exceptions were 8...f4 ( looks dodgy but I can't see the immediate refutation) and more likely 8...Nc5 -as I think you mentioned a good square for the night. This looks more of a pain I think, because we would like to keep the bishop pair and the white squared one especially, but to do so we have to vacate the f7 diagonal. Play might continue 9 Bc2 Be7 (9...d6?! 10d4 doesn't leave the knight a good square) and black looks to have pretty near equalised to me.

Whereas with 8d4, the most dangerous black move that would result in a different line ( i.e. Not just leading to 9Re1 and a transposed position) looked 8... exd4 9Re1. Risqué... but do you guys want to have a look at it? Anything else he / we could do?

pendell
2016-10-03, 07:32 PM
I'm a beginner. What about Qe2, moving the queen out o some open diagonals, threatening Re1 doubling the file, and threatening the knight as well?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-03, 08:42 PM
That's a fair point. Those continuations most likely end up with a well-defended knight on e6, so doubling the file might not be great, but Qe2 generates most of the same pressures Re1 does.

Mister Tom
2016-10-04, 12:56 PM
Yah. While getting the Queen in the middle could be strong in the short term, and it does bring more defence to f2, on e2 it no longer defends the b3 bishop- and also while we don't definitely know where the queen is headed, the rook is probably happiest on that open file.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, don't let the word count fool you into thinking I know what I'm doing here...

Lethologica
2016-10-05, 05:23 PM
We were over time, so I went ahead.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5

Bc2 is pretty automatic.

Mister Tom
2016-10-06, 01:34 PM
We could try Nxe5 or even Bd5, but I agree.

Markozeta
2016-10-06, 05:16 PM
I vote for Nxe5

pendell
2016-10-07, 09:03 PM
Okay, why is Bc2 pretty much automatic? It looks to me as if black has done what should have been impossible -- take the tempo away from us. We're more worried about what he's doing to us than what we're doing to him. And he's a pawn up.

Bc2 seems to be a very defensive move and gives him more tempo, while either Nxe5 or Bd5 forces him to react to us and allows us to context the center more firmly.

But I'm willing to be persuaded. Educate me!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-08, 12:05 AM
I take my earlier comment back. I wasn't looking closely at the position. Those moves are both fine, and neither of them prompts loss of control over the light squares. I don't like the d3 square but d4 fixes it at pretty much any time. With that in mind, Bc2 does seem passive.

Mister Tom
2016-10-09, 04:05 AM
Okay, why is Bc2 pretty much automatic? It looks to me as if black has done what should have been impossible -- take the tempo away from us. We're more worried about what he's doing to us than what we're doing to him. And he's a pawn up.

Bc2 seems to be a very defensive move and gives him more tempo, while either Nxe5 or Bd5 forces him to react to us and allows us to context the center more firmly.

But I'm willing to be persuaded. Educate me!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I think

9Nxe5 Nxe5 10Rxe5+ Be7 and then the bishop has to retreat anyway (and he couldn't save the pawn anyway); 9Bd5 Be7 ( otherwise 10Ng5) 10Nxe5 Nxe5 11 Bxb7 Nxb7 12 Rxe5 0-0 and black is fine, with ...c6 and ...d5 I guess to come.

Lethologica
2016-10-09, 11:47 PM
10. ...Ne6 with 11. ...Be6 in mind is another likely outcome of 9. Nxe5. ...Ne6 is a generally strong move preparing for play on either side of the board; the only drawback is losing the ability to trade for the bishop. But if the bishop's going to move, that's not an issue anyway.

Bc2, Nxe5, Bd5. Gotta choose before Ruslan gets mad about deadlines and such. I prefer the bishop moves, but only slightly.

pendell
2016-10-12, 01:34 PM
I have not yet voted on any move. If I hear nothing by 5 PM I will vote Bc2 and move in the main thread. Is there any objection?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Mister Tom
2016-10-12, 01:46 PM
Works for me...

pendell
2016-10-12, 04:05 PM
Move made.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2

ETA: Thanks to Lothologica for catching my error! I've corrected both here and in the main thread.

E again to add: This is my board (https://en.lichess.org/editor/r2qkb1r/1bpp1ppp/p1n5/1pn1p3/8/2P2N2/PPBP1PPP/RNBQR1K1_w_Qkq_-). Is it correct?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-13, 03:55 PM
Board is correct.

pendell
2016-10-14, 08:40 AM
May be apropos (https://www.facebook.com/ThunderDungeon/photos/a.1151501594899679.1073743796.288157034567477/1151502251566280/?type=3&theater)

ETA: Meanwhile, Ruslan has made his move.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-17, 12:34 AM
We ready for the d4 break? Nxe5 Nxe5 Rxe5 Bd6 seems like an awkward situation. Any other moves?

pendell
2016-10-17, 06:43 AM
I suppose we could play Be4, which would mean that if the queen knight was moved off of C6 we would get his fianchettoed bishop at B7, but that's vulnerable to pawn advances.

The one thing that worries me about D4 is that he's putting an awful lot of pressure on that D4 square from two knights and a pawn. Perhaps Nxe5 would relieve some of that pressure? We'd get back our pawn and the situation in the center would be more equalized after the resulting knight exchange.

I'm just trying to think of options. I think it's time for Pd4.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-10-17, 04:57 PM
I'm in on d4.

pendell
2016-10-18, 08:59 AM
Okay, I'm willing to go to d4, but as a beginner I need some explanation.

I measure advantage in chess in terms of material, position, and tempo. The whole point of a sacrifice (for example) is to exchange material for position+tempo, which allows you to either win the material back or force a mate outright.

It appears to me that our opponent has a slight advantage in both material (one pawn up) and position (two centrally placed knights plus the king pawn threatening that one square).

Nxe5 Nxe5
Rxe5

takes back the pawn and equalizes the position in the center a bit, in exchange for a bit of tempo since our rook will undoubtedly be driven back e1 again.

So what does d4 give us?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-18, 02:10 PM
d4 doesn't force material gain (yet), but it's a strong tempo move.

10. d4 threatens 11. d5 forking the knights and also 11. dxe5 or 11. Nxe5 winning the pawn with no loss of tempo. So Black's best response is 10. ...exd4.

After we recapture with 11. cxd4, there are still two threats: d5 forking the knights again, or simply d5 threatening the pinned knight on e6. Black has to move the knight on c6, which reduces the pressure on d4. The c6 knight can go to e7, freeing the e6 knight from the pin; or it can go to b4, threatening the bishop on c2.

After 11. ...Nb4, 12. Bb3 is natural, threatening 13. d5 yet again. After 11. ...Ne7, the knight on f3 is awkward because of, say, 12. ...Bxf3 13. Qxf3 Nxd4, but there's a natural square for the f3 knight on e5.

I don't know if it all works out, but I prefer it to the sure tempo disadvantage after 10. Nxe5.

Markozeta
2016-10-18, 03:26 PM
Plus this allows opening for our currently trapped dark square bishop, and a central square for the night on B1. Giving those pieces a chance to break free allows us to be more flexible.

pendell
2016-10-19, 12:43 PM
Has it been five days since the last move? Shall I move d4 at 6 PM today?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell
2016-10-19, 04:58 PM
Okay, made the move.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4


Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell
2016-10-20, 07:58 AM
And now the central bloodbath starts ...

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4 exd4

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-10-20, 12:53 PM
Charge!!!

cxd4

Lethologica
2016-10-21, 10:46 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4 exd4
11. cxd4 Nb4

Markozeta
2016-10-23, 02:46 AM
I think an update (https://lichess.org/editor/r2qkb1r/1bpp1ppp/p3n3/1p6/1n1P4/5N2/PPB2PPP/RNBQR1K1_w_Qkq_-) should go here.

Two possibilities for me. Bb3 or Na3. I like development over retreating, so my vote is cast on Na3. But Bb3 wouldn't upset me either.

Lethologica
2016-10-23, 02:54 AM
I support Bb3 for the reason stated previously. A knight on a3 is just a knight that'll take two more moves to become active.

pendell
2016-10-23, 08:42 AM
Thanks for the update, Markozeta!

Looks to me as if he's threatening nxc2, forking our two rooks. That's an empty threat at the moment, since our queen will recapture, but it also forces our queen to stay on that square to prevent the fork. That means the queen cannot both protect c2 and f3 from the fianchettoed bishop at the same time.

What about pxc5 and putting ourselves a piece up? I don't see any way for him to immediately recapture and that gives us more room to work our way out of the fork. Sure he can hit f3, but we can recapture with the pawn at g2. That would weaken our king side castling position, but the gain in material might make it worth it. It would also mean his only piece not at his starting position would be the knight at b4.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-23, 04:38 PM
There is no knight at c5. It would be the automatic move, otherwise.

Markozeta
2016-10-24, 05:18 AM
After 11. ...Nb4, 12. Bb3 is natural, threatening 13. d5 yet again. After 11. ...Ne7, the knight on f3 is awkward because of, say, 12. ...Bxf3 13. Qxf3 Nxd4, but there's a natural square for the f3 knight on e5.

I don't know if it all works out, but I prefer it to the sure tempo disadvantage after 10. Nxe5.

These reasons? It does make sense to push d5. I'll vote for Bb3 then.

pendell
2016-10-24, 07:04 PM
Okay, I had to look at the updated board again; I was a bit out of reckoning.

Shall we move Bb3 at 6 PM tomorrow , then?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-10-25, 09:26 AM
Go for it!

pendell
2016-10-26, 02:17 PM
Thanks, Markozeta. I lost track of the day and was planning to post tonight at 6 PM ... lost a day somehow.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-10-26, 04:29 PM
Thanks, Markozeta. I lost track of the day and was planning to post tonight at 6 PM ... lost a day somehow.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Sure, not a problem. Since it seems we're down to just us 3, I think I'd like to put moves out so long as 2 people agree. It would be a majority anyways.

pendell
2016-10-28, 07:42 AM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4 exd4
11. cxd4 Nb4
12. Bb3 c6

I don't have access to a board right now, so I don't have any suggestions at this time.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell
2016-10-29, 05:03 PM
I had to ask in the main thread because I couldn't believe he would block in his own queen side bishop with pawns like that. Why? It looks to me like he's trying for the Noah's Ark trap, but if so it's so slow that it's unlikely to catch us.

How about a3, to drive back his queen side knight? Then once he retreats we can fork his knight and pawn with our d4 pawn.

Other options would be Nc3, but that plays into his hands a bit, if he's really going for Noah's ark. Moving the bishop on c1 will block either our queen or our rook, and it's probably best to keep those files open for now.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-29, 08:19 PM
We should probably avoid trading our d-pawn for his c-pawn for now. Keeping that c-pawn there is what's trapping the bishop. If we give him an excuse to clear that out, it's probably to his benefit. We're also throwing away our center control.

I vote Nc3. Natural development move, makes d5 a bad retreat square for the knight on b4, prepares a3 if we decide it's useful.

One other move that might be considered is Ne5. I don't know if it's good now, though.

Mister Tom
2016-10-30, 04:43 AM
Nc3 works for me.

pendell
2016-10-30, 03:46 PM
Never mind, I see we have made our move.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

Lethologica
2016-10-30, 08:05 PM
Sorry, did the "two votes" thing without accounting for there being four people again.

Ruslan's reply:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4 exd4
11. cxd4 Nb4
12. Bb3 c6
13. Nc3 Be7

So, break the pin, prepare to castle. We can still move a3 and force the trade on d5, doubling Black's pawns. Other suggestions?

pendell
2016-10-31, 05:03 PM
Apropos of nothing,


http://ace.mu.nu/archives/checkmate-bill-stephens_525.jpg


Checkmate, by Bill Stephens, depicting a man playing chess with the devil for his soul. You can see a couple of souls in jars in the background and one jar that is still open...

ETA: In our game, I don't see any good options besides a3.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-01, 02:45 AM
Eh, I took a four day vacation for Halloween. So, it was just the three of you anyways. A new board (r2qk2r/1b1pbppp/p1p1n3/1p6/1n1P4/1BN2N2/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 w Qkq -) sounds appropriate though. And to me, two votes would still be a good idea even with four. Drag out the timer to long and this won't work.

My suggestion is: Ne5

pendell
2016-11-01, 08:05 AM
Okay, what does Ne5 do for us that a3 doesn't?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-01, 09:23 AM
3 thoughts -

1.) Opens up lines for the queen to attack kingside (a nice positive)
2.) Puts our Knight in a pretty well protected forward position.
3.) Seems more proactive and less reactive than a3.

a3 is a reasonable move - but I think that keeps the temp on his side. Ne5 would turn the tempo to our side.

pendell
2016-11-01, 12:28 PM
Well, although I suggest a3, I'm not going to make that my official vote at this time. Let's see what other people have to say. I also need a chance to look at the board.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell
2016-11-02, 08:11 AM
I would suggest one more day for discussion and then make our move tomorrow. Candidate moves are a3 or Ne5.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-02, 10:46 PM
Hmm, 2 days of silence. If nobody says anything by noon your time tomorrow, I'll vote a3.

pendell
2016-11-03, 03:18 PM
All right, I'll move a3 in the main thread.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-07, 01:19 AM
One more time with the new board (https://lichess.org/editor/r2qk2r/1b1pbppp/p1p1n3/1p1n4/3P4/PBN2N2/1P3PPP/R1BQR1K1_w_Qkq_-). Though it looks like we were all off this weekend, and we've got until tomorrow evening-ish to finish this up.

Nxd5 seems automatic, though. The only other option is Bxd5. I value my Knights slightly higher then Bishops in a Queen's pawn game. But in a Knight's pawn game like we have here, I'd rather have two bishops. Bc2 after the inevitable castle is just to much of an aggressive move threat to throw the bishop away.

Markozeta
2016-11-08, 12:07 AM
I'll give it until 12:00n PST and then go Nxd5. Let me know if you agree or disagree.

pendell
2016-11-08, 09:36 AM
I'm good with Nxd5. Bishops are more useful later in the game than knights, in my experience. Knights are great in the early game when the field is crowded and opportunities for forking abound, but they become less useful as the field clears.

So ... knight takes knight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSjiuMNksiw)?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-08, 10:21 AM
That's hilarious. What game is that? Also, I'm making the move with two votes.

pendell
2016-11-08, 10:29 AM
That's Battle chess: Game of Kings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Chess:_Game_of_Kings), on Steam.

It's a remake of the 1988 game Battle chess (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSnAiXKU7h8), originally for Commodore Amiga but ported to IBM PC, where it caught the eye of a certain high school junior. It reinvigorated my love of the game through the early 90s, when a version of the game on the NeXT computer in my lab put me off it in favor of Nethack and other pursuits.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-08, 12:52 PM
Only 2 hours to think on it. I was worried there was a one of those fancy Z-word things (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwischenzug) I missed, but we're back on a capture/recapture schedule.

Ne5 is my pick now, but Qd3 and Bc2 are all solid choices at this stage. I'm not that good of a player to find a good mating threat on the kingside after an inevitable castle, but this would be the first move in that advance. Or we can try a safe play on Queenside to try and recapture the lost Pawn.

Markozeta
2016-11-09, 03:31 AM
Just in case we all missed it.

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4 exd4
11. cxd4 Nb4
12. Bb3 c6
13. Nc3 Be7
14. a3 Nd5
15. Nxd5 cxd5

Again, other than Ne5 I'm a bit at a loss again here. Let me know if you've got any great strategies.

Markozeta
2016-11-11, 10:50 AM
Well,

With no responses, I'll make a move for Ne5. Hopefully everyone's okay?

pendell
2016-11-11, 12:28 PM
Sorry. Working two jobs. Haven't thought about it. I accept your move, though.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell
2016-11-13, 03:24 PM
Okay, Ruslan has moved, threatening our knight on e5.

I don't see any good options at the moment -- we're going to have to move our knight to G4 or F3. So we've wasted a move, and our tempo. Meanwhile, he's developing some serious pawn pressure on the queen side.

We've got to find some way to get the initiative back. Any ideas?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-14, 10:19 AM
Nd3 is viable. The Knight on e6 can capture the Pawn on d4, but now the Pin on the bishop on e7 is tightened. Exploiting the overworked Knight/bishop pin will eventually lead to both pawns being recaptured, i.e:

17. Nd3 Nxd4
18. Bg5 Ne6
19. Bxe7 Qxe7
20. Nf4! (Anymove)
21. Bxd5 Bxd5
22. Nxd5 - Pawn recaptured here.

Let me know your thoughts.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a new board (https://lichess.org/editor/r2qk2r/1b2bppp/p2pn3/1p1pN3/3P4/PB6/1P3PPP/R1BQR1K1_w_Qkq_-) if you needed to see it.

Markozeta
2016-11-15, 11:33 AM
Well,

Today is the day. Anyone else? Or should I do Nd3?

pendell
2016-11-15, 12:38 PM
Well,

Today is the day. Anyone else? Or should I do Nd3?

I have no better ideas, so in the absence of other suggestions I'm cool with Nd3.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-16, 03:03 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4 exd4
11. cxd4 Nb4
12. Bb3 c6
13. Nc3 Be7
14. a3 Nd5
15. Nxd5 cxd5
16. Ne5 d6
17. Nd3 Nxd4

Time to move onto phase 2. 18. Bg5, anyone?

New Board (https://lichess.org/editor/r2qk2r/1b2bppp/p2p4/1p1p4/3n4/PB1N4/1P3PPP/R1BQR1K1_w_Qkq_-)

pendell
2016-11-16, 03:42 PM
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 a6
4. Ba4 Nf6
5. 0-0 b5
6. Bb3 Bb7
7. c3 Nxe4
8. Re1 Nc5
9. Bc2 Ne6
10. d4 exd4
11. cxd4 Nb4
12. Bb3 c6
13. Nc3 Be7
14. a3 Nd5
15. Nxd5 cxd5
16. Ne5 d6
17. Nd3 Nxd4

Time to move onto phase 2. 18. Bg5, anyone?


I approve.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-16, 04:20 PM
That was easy.

Let's see what happens. This is where it could get interesting.

Markozeta
2016-11-17, 01:37 AM
Just as I suspected, he's weighing his options carefully here, otherwise we would have had a response.

..Ne6 is best play, and what I would expect. The most that happens is we get our pawn back (explained above).

..f6 is very tempting here - and what the gut reaction says to do. But 19. Bxf6 gxf6 20. Qh5+ and we burninate the kingside with an unstoppable queen against a nearly unprotected king.

..Nxb3 would be a move if Ruslan wasn't paying attention - the easily open bishop looks tempting, but 19. Bxe7 Qxe7 20. Qxb3 (anymove), 21. RxQ AxR, where A is anything, leads to a trade of rook for queen. The extra pawns be damned, we should win with that kind of advantage.

As I said before, this is where it can get very, very interesting.

Markozeta
2016-11-17, 11:58 PM
Bxe7 is pretty automatic. Anyone object?

pendell
2016-11-18, 07:31 AM
No objection here.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-18, 12:57 PM
No going back now! We'll have to inform the church that they'll be digging some graves.

Bucky
2016-11-18, 04:49 PM
Obvious options:
(a) Nf4, putting a lot of pressure on the weak d5 pawn while also threatening to storm his king if he defends the pawn.
(b) Rc2, claiming the open file
(c) D2, E2 or F3, moving the queen off the back rank to link rooks

I favor option (a) because I don't want to give him a chance to castle. The best response seems to be ...Qg5, threatening a checkmate on g2 if we get careless attacking the pawn, but we can probably find a way to punish that.

pendell
2016-11-18, 06:09 PM
Before I answer, let's have a board check. Board (https://lichess.org/editor/r3k2r/1b2qppp/p2pn3/1p1p4/8/PB1N4/1P3PPP/R2QR1K1_w_Qkq_-).

Is that correct?

I've been working 10 hour days and a second job, so I think I may have lost track at some point.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-19, 02:18 AM
Yes the board is correct. And I'm on board with Nf4

Bucky
2016-11-19, 03:55 PM
Nb4 is also an option over Nf4, keeping his rook tied to the a6 pawn instead of pressuring the king.

Markozeta
2016-11-19, 09:40 PM
Nf4 is a more central position and exploits the pinned Knight

Markozeta
2016-11-21, 10:07 AM
Well, we're at three days. If I don't hear anything, I'm doing Nf4 at 12:00 PST (w/ 1.5 votes?).

Let me know.

pendell
2016-11-21, 01:56 PM
I'll vote for NF4 because I was thrown off a horse on Saturday, am barely functional through the pain, and so cannot come up with a better idea. Go for it!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-21, 03:24 PM
Yay? for horse pain induced chess decisions. We'll see what happens next. Either way we should get one of our pawns back:

...O-O 21. Bxd5 Bxd5 22. Nxd5, is plausible. We get one pawn back and all the bishops are off the board.

...Qg5 21. Nxe6 fxe6 22. Rxe6+ is just as fun, and now the Knights are gone. Plus Ruslan won't be able to castle after that.

No matter what, it's a win for team white.

Markozeta
2016-11-22, 11:30 AM
And the results are in! O-O was the move. Bxd5 is my offered response. Nxd5 doesn't threaten Black's bishop, just the queen, so just moving the queen would suffice for a response. Using the bishop pins it to the rook, forcing the exchange of bishops. Then the knight comes in for the final hit.

The board afterwards is a lot more open for us, and our knight is in a good forward position to be downright annoying. We'll see what we can do to reclaim the last pawn.

Bucky
2016-11-22, 12:38 PM
Do we have a reason to grab the pawn right away instead of playing, say, Rc2?

(E): Yes, there is; we don't want to let him advance that pawn.

Markozeta
2016-11-22, 01:01 PM
I don't see a problem with Rc2. It loses some of the tempo (we could lose the delicate Rook-Knight-Queen pin), but it definitely gets the file in our favor.

(E): Advancing the pawn is a bad problem for him - we'd capture the knight instead and the bishop would protect it from the queen. He can capture the knight with the pawn, but we capture the pawn with the rook and wind up with a very advanced rook supported well by a bishop. Burnination of black's pawns is just beginning!

pendell
2016-11-22, 03:35 PM
In the absence of other feedback, I say go for it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Bucky
2016-11-22, 03:45 PM
And the results are in! O-O was the move. Bxd5 is my offered response. Nxd5 doesn't threaten Black's bishop, just the queen, so just moving the queen would suffice for a response.

Let's look at some lines
Bxd5, Ra-e8
Bxb7, QxB7 and he looks like he gains tempo by unpinning but we get his other center pawn out of it.


Bxd5 Ra7 (or b2) and exchanging bishops lets him set up a rook lift. But...
Bxe6 fxe6
Nxe6 and when the dust settles we're probably up an exchange but down another pawn.

(Rxe6 Qg5 loses the knight to either a checkmate threat or a pinned g-pawn)

Markozeta
2016-11-22, 04:37 PM
Bxd5 Ra7 (or b2) and exchanging bishops lets him set up a rook lift. But...
Bxe6 fxe6
Nxe6 and when the dust settles we're probably up an exchange but down another pawn.

(Rxe6 Qg5 loses the knight to either a checkmate threat or a pinned g-pawn)

Change that to Nxe6 fxe6, and we have a pawn that's pinned to the king that's under attack by a rook and a bishop.

Seems like Bxd5 is the way to go.

Bucky
2016-11-22, 05:36 PM
Change that to Nxe6 fxe6, and we have a pawn that's pinned to the king that's under attack by a rook and a bishop.

(
If we just capture the pawn with the rook and he moves the queen anywhere but f7, and we use discovered check to trade bishop+rook for pawn+queen.
But...
(starting from this position (https://lichess.org/editor/1r3rk1/1b2q1pp/p2pp3/1p1B4/8/P7/1P3PPP/R2QR1K1_w_Qkq_-))
Rxe6 Qf7
Rxd6 Qxf2+
Kh1 Bxd2
Rxd2 Qxb2 and we seem to be in trouble.

Bxe6+ Kh8 is the better continuation for us, but we can't exploit the discovered threat on the queen because he want the queen on f6 or g5 anyway.

Markozeta
2016-11-22, 06:21 PM
(
If we just capture the pawn with the rook and he moves the queen anywhere but f7, and we use discovered check to trade bishop+rook for pawn+queen.
But...
(starting from this position (https://lichess.org/editor/1r3rk1/1b2q1pp/p2pp3/1p1B4/8/P7/1P3PPP/R2QR1K1_w_Qkq_-))
Rxe6 Qf7
Rxd6 Qxf2+
Kh1 Bxd2
Rxd2 Qxb2 and we seem to be in trouble.

Bxe6+ Kh8 is the better continuation for us, but we can't exploit the discovered threat on the queen because he want the queen on f6 or g5 anyway.

Qxf2+ would expose the black king to the bishop on d5, so it's an illegal move. We'd have to move quickly to make sure we kill the queen quickly.

If you're on board with Bxd5 though, I'll put it up tonight.

Bucky
2016-11-22, 08:13 PM
If you're on board with Bxd5 though, I'll put it up tonight.

We still have 36+ hours, right? I'd prefer holding off until tomorrow.

(E) I haven't found anything better; go ahead and commit Bxd5.

Markozeta
2016-11-24, 04:16 PM
Alright, we committed. ...Bxd5 will be an automatic response.

Markozeta
2016-11-26, 02:27 AM
Any surprises we can find before Nxd5?

Markozeta
2016-11-28, 06:38 AM
Ooof. 3 days goes fast over a holiday. I'll petition an extra day for the holiday. Anybody have anything else to contribute besides Nxd5?

pendell
2016-11-28, 09:32 AM
Go ahead and proceed with Nxd5

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-11-28, 05:49 PM
Alright, I'll do it at noon PST tomorrow.

Markozeta
2016-12-01, 05:07 PM
I think we won guys. :cool::confused::eek:

Well, we may not. Maybe he's got a super awesome attack hidden somewhere.

Bucky
2016-12-01, 05:19 PM
I don't see how we're better than even.

Markozeta
2016-12-01, 05:25 PM
Yeah, me neither, but it's been almost 3 days. Maybe he gave up?

pendell
2016-12-01, 06:52 PM
I would say give him a little longer and then raise a question in the main thread. We've kept him waiting in the past. If he doesn't respond in a little longer, declare win by forfeit.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Feytalist
2016-12-02, 04:00 AM
Hey guys - I might join y'all for a bit. Been following the game for a couple of days; I even have the board set up next to my desk, heh. It's been over a decade since I've properly played though, so don't expect any major insights.

Anyway, he posted: Qb7. Kinda what I was expecting - and honestly, I don't really see how we can do much damage from current position. Either we have to retreat our Knight, or start using our Queen. Best I can see is Ne3, and that's much good really. But it opens up the Queen a little bit.

Oh, board update (https://en.lichess.org/editor/r4rk1/1q3ppp/p2pn3/1p1N4/8/P7/1P3PPP/R2QR1K1_w_Qkq_-); is that right?

Markozeta
2016-12-02, 08:28 AM
Yes, that's absolutely correct. I was torn between Rc1 and Qf3, was going to play out some scenarios later today before voting. Thanks for the board update.

Bucky
2016-12-02, 03:39 PM
Our knight isn't actually under much threat right now. It will take him at least two moves to bring an extra piece to bear on it with his pawn in the way, except for circumstances that would involve a knight trade.

If we're worried about the knight trade, we can Rc2.
If we're worried about activating a rook, we can move the queen.

But we don't really need to do either immediately; we can instead play a move like g3 and plan on retreating the knight if he threatens it.
(Sample continuation: g3 Ra-c8; Ne3 Rf-d8; Nf5 Qd7 and then we can activate our queen while his pieces are tied down.)

Markozeta
2016-12-02, 04:40 PM
Qf3 gets my vote.

The simple surprise of a bad move followed by 23. Nf6+ gxf6 24. Qxb7 is to tempting to resist. I like keeping him reacting and keeping the tempo. We can do Ra-c2 afterwards if he makes a good response, and get two moves for the price of one.

Bucky
2016-12-02, 04:53 PM
Qf3 gets my vote.

The simple surprise of a bad move followed by 23. Nf6+ gxf6 24. Qxb7 is to tempting to resist.

I wouldn't count on him missing this.

Markozeta
2016-12-02, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't count on him missing this.

It's not about "gotchas" for me - I'm not a lurker. It's more of the fact you have to make threats, obvious or not at him, otherwise he'll start making threats at you. Staying on the "I'm still threatening your queen" side is the appeal here. Now he has to make a silly move, and we get to move again on our terms. And f3 is a good spot for her - nice diagnoal, and a foreboading presence on the king side. So it's a good move to keep tempo and it's good positionally. g3, while a nice defensive move, will still be a nice defensive move after Qf3. Qf3 might not be a good move after g3.

That's my idea, anyways.

Markozeta
2016-12-05, 01:55 AM
Three days always go fast on the weekend. Noon PST tomorrow I'll post the first idea that gets a second vote. I see the following have been added:

Ne3
Qf3
Rc1
g3

All have their merits. If I don't hear anything by 5pm PST tomorrow, I'll go with Qf3.

Feytalist
2016-12-05, 05:30 AM
Oh, right, weekends. Where does the time go.

I had looked at Qf3 as well, and that's good, but it's going to take a couple of extra moves to set up anything worthwhile from there. So I'm fine with that move, but we'll have to possibly discuss what we're going to do after.

My only issue is that, as White, we do constantly need to put pressure on Black. I'm a bit wary of letting him dictate the pace, and I'm worried if we do a move like g3, we're going to do exactly that.

But I'm open to counterarguments - even though we don't have much time left I guess.

Markozeta
2016-12-05, 05:15 PM
I'll take it as a vote and send this on it's way. Let's see what happens next.

Markozeta
2016-12-06, 12:07 AM
It's always a dance around the traps.

I don't see any immediate attacks from him, and we're not in the best position either. So, one of those subtle moves that eventually bites you. I'm never good at these.

I see the following, from left to right:


b4 - Not a bad pawn structure move, but a bit passive with the queens out? Save for endgame I think.
Rac1 - My bubbles! open file.
Rad1 - Gets the queen off Knight babysitting duty.
g3 - Brace yourself, the queen's counterattack is coming.
h4 - Since he's at least two moves away from an attack, setting up h4 followed by g3 does bring about some decent defense.


I love the attack, so I'd be more of a Rad2, Qg4, Re3, Rg4 kind of play. But we won't have four moves to setup an attack, and he's in to good of a spot to exchange queens, which would spoil the entire thing anyways. So, I'm stuck here. What is everyone's thoughts?

Feytalist
2016-12-06, 07:59 AM
Yeah, he was worried about a pin there (even though I personally didn't see one happening for at least like 4 moves, heh). That's good, keep him reacting. I'm fine with that.

I wouldn't say no if we wanted develop some pawns; b4 might block off a possible Knight move but whatever. Might pay off later. I'd probably go Rad2 at this point; I wanna do stuff with our Queen. But I'm hardly the best judge at this point; I'm open to be educated :smallbiggrin:

Markozeta
2016-12-08, 12:34 AM
Three days! Why only three days? Oh well, time to make some decisions. I'll execute at 3pm PST tomorrow. Seems Rad1 is the only choice with a vote (I edited my past notations - I was calling it 2 when it clearly is 1). If we get a second vote on that, I'll make that before 3pm, otherwise I'll wait for different votes and let randomella decide.

Feytalist
2016-12-08, 03:23 AM
Haha, and I just went with it. I think our Rook wants to be a Knight there. Knew what you meant though.

Sure, we can do that. Any idea of future moves, so long? We can at least chat about that I think.

Markozeta
2016-12-08, 02:50 PM
Future, I see our Queen taking that pawn on d6. Qg3 and when the knight moves, we have a rook and a queen against the pawn. Should be straight forward from there.

Markozeta
2016-12-12, 01:25 AM
Well, he took the open file. Not to surprising. Here's what I see. (Board Update (https://lichess.org/editor/2r2r1k/1q3ppp/p2pn3/1p1N4/8/P4Q2/1P3PPP/3RR1K1_w_Qq_-))


b4 protects our Knight (keeps the rook off c5) and tightens up the pawn structure.
Qg3 goes on the attack against the pawn on d6.


I'll tally up votes on these (let me know if there's something I missed), and respond sometime on Wednesday. I personally have no preference.

Feytalist
2016-12-13, 03:24 AM
Swamped at work. I'll be MIA for the rest of the year. Enjoy :smallbiggrin:

Markozeta
2016-12-14, 12:57 PM
Alright, with nobody here, and myself not having an opinion, I'm making a roll... Odds, b4, Evens its Qg3.

And it's Qg3. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21491494&postcount=2463) If I don't hear from anyone else by 3:30 PST today, I'll send this move off.

pendell
2016-12-14, 12:59 PM
I'll take that move. Go for it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-12-14, 01:35 PM
And posted. We'll see what happens.

Valdarno
2016-12-15, 03:17 AM
Oooh, can I join in with this? I haven't played vote-chess for a long time, but still.

Are we anticipating Rc2 now, then?

Markozeta
2016-12-15, 05:27 AM
Absolutely! And yes, Rc2 followed by b4 was my thinking. Though Qxd6 would simply be getting paid in advance if he went Rxb2. Though I wonder if we could pull Qxf8 afterwards somehow - or make a good threat at it.

Valdarno
2016-12-15, 12:26 PM
I much prefer an immediate Qxd6: if they don't see the threat and just equalise immediately with Rxd2, we obviously win immediately, and even if we do we get some kind of pressure out of it. In a game this drawish, we need something like that.

Bartmanhomer
2016-12-15, 03:52 PM
Cool! You guys have your own chess team? Can I join in and play the next game please?

Markozeta
2016-12-15, 04:24 PM
Just go ahead an vote. Ruslan is coming up with a move any second now...

And then we plan.

Markozeta
2016-12-16, 03:42 AM
Rc2 it is! As you said earlier (before an edit, I think), Qxd6 certainly does stop Rxb2. Afterwards, 27. Rxe6! has three options. 27... fxe6 is immediate checkmate with 28. Qxf8#. 27... Qb8 puts us up a knight, and we get the pawn back: (28. Qxb8 Rxb8, 29. Rxa6). And 27... Ra8 puts us up a rook! 28. Re7! Qb8 29. Nc7. Trapped, the rook is pretty much dead. So, it's a good move, but it hinges on Rxb2 (or something similar). The smart thing would be to force an exchange of Queens (26... Qb8). So, we could be passive and take b4, because we want to keep our queen?

Put your votes, I'll tally them up, and make a move sometime Sunday evening. Me I'm throwing my hat in on Qxd6.

Valdarno
2016-12-16, 02:24 PM
I think the current position is very drawish - I suggest we plow right ahead and accept the possibility of exchange, because otherwise we might as well just offer a draw already.

Markozeta
2016-12-19, 01:10 AM
Alright Qxb6 it is.

Valdarno
2016-12-19, 03:19 PM
And he's gone Qa7, as anticipated. Here we're at a crossroads - we need to block the f2 square, obviously, but there are a few ways to do it. I think we just move back the knight to Ne3, because that forces the rook to move - either he retreats, or eats a pawn, and if he eats the pawn then his rook is out of play for a bit and gives us the opportunity for some Fun! in the center.

Bartmanhomer
2016-12-19, 03:44 PM
Can I play the next game or no? :smile:

pendell
2016-12-20, 11:59 AM
Can I play the next game or no? :smile:

You can do better than that; you can jump in right now! There's no rule that says you can't start participating.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Markozeta
2016-12-20, 12:14 PM
Bartmanhomer - just look at these options and vote. You can join in this game.

Here are options as I see them:


Qg3 - A pretty safe response. If he eats the pawn, we move the knight and see if we can't have the knight eat one of his!
Ne3 - As you stated. A safe response again. We can have follow with Nf4 and be assured we don't have anything else.
Nb6 - An aggressive response. 27. ..Rxb2 is responded with immediately: 28. Rxe6! and the Queen has two options to respond to the mate threat. Qa8 or Qb8. Qa8 means Nxa8, Qb8 means 29. Nd7, forcing the exchange of queens and 30. Rxd6 puts the rook out of danger, placing us up a Knight. Of course, Rxb2 is assumed here. So it's a tempo move - we've stopped him from Rxb2. This lets us have another move to react.
Rf1 - It removes Rxe6 off the table, but it's a good enough move that it's worth mentioning. Keeps us with our front line team in current position. But I'd see a Rxb2 in our future here as well.


I'm in between Nb6 and Rf1. I'll decide on Thursday.
Board Update (https://lichess.org/editor/5r1k/q4ppp/p2Qn3/1p1N4/8/P7/1Pr2PPP/3RR1K1_w_Qq_-)

Bartmanhomer
2016-12-20, 12:35 PM
Qg3 is a safe move. I choose that one. :smile:

Valdarno
2016-12-20, 01:25 PM
Wait, I'm confused. Rf2 isn't a legal move. Qg3 is fine, but seems a bit defensive for my tastes - I feel like unless we try something new, this is doomed to a draw.

Nb6 is... weird. It's *very* offensive, in that it leaves Qxf2 as very much a live possibility. But I think the attack peters out if he just straightforwardly blocks with something like h6... but it might be worth a shot.

Markozeta
2016-12-20, 01:59 PM
Wait, I'm confused. Rf2 isn't a legal move. Qg3 is fine, but seems a bit defensive for my tastes - I feel like unless we try something new, this is doomed to a draw.

Nb6 is... weird. It's *very* offensive, in that it leaves Qxf2 as very much a live possibility. But I think the attack peters out if he just straightforwardly blocks with something like h6... but it might be worth a shot.

Rf1, Chesslexia strikes again.

Valdarno
2016-12-20, 02:47 PM
Well, that doesn't seem immediately bad - but again, soooo passive.

Markozeta
2016-12-20, 03:15 PM
Correct. After a second review, I'd say I'm between Ne3 and Nb6. Again, I'll decide Thursday.

Markozeta
2016-12-21, 02:47 AM
Some extra time and ... I'm leaning more towards Ne3 -> Ng4. It's just not as complicated as Nb6. Even if we lose the pawn due to Rxb2, We still have Rxe6! as a threat after Ng4. If he gets defensive, then Qg3 -> Qc3 mean we have a trapped rook that would be a tasty dinner.

However, Nb6 then means after a good defense, then we need to do something. b2 protects the pawn, but gives back the tempo we fought so hard for. Qd3 protects the Knight by threatening to take the rook. OVerall, it just feels so weird. I think I'm going to go in with Ne3.

Valdarno
2016-12-21, 04:35 PM
I agree. I don't like any of our options that much, though, to be honest.

Markozeta
2016-12-21, 04:54 PM
Alright, Ne3 it is. I'll make the move.

Markozeta
2016-12-21, 06:12 PM
Rxb2, as predicted! Our planned response was Ng4, bringing the threat of Rxe6! back.

But let's be crazy and see what other options are available for voting:


Rd2 - Call the pawn a loss and exchange some rooks. Passive, but workable.
Rd3 - Protect the last pawn!
h3 - Just to crack open the window.


But I'll be honest. If someone else agrees Ng4, I'm just going to post it. The other moves are silly by comparison.

Bartmanhomer
2016-12-21, 06:44 PM
Rxb2, as predicted! Our planned response was Ng4, bringing the threat of Rxe6! back.

But let's be crazy and see what other options are available for voting:


Rd2 - Call the pawn a loss and exchange some rooks. Passive, but workable.
Rd3 - Protect the last pawn!
h3 - Just to crack open the window.


But I'll be honest. If someone else agrees Ng4, I'm just going to post it. The other moves are silly by comparison.

H3! Just do h3!

Valdarno
2016-12-21, 08:04 PM
I much prefer Ng4. As you say, it puts on pressure admirably, and we can get our pawn back whenever.

...

EDIT: Having looked at the situation again, I'm much less sanguine. I think I was wrong earlier when I thought we could safely give up the pawn: I think we're not doomed, but didn't get anywhere near enough compensation. Sorry. :smalltongue: I'll have to assuage my pain by reaching new heights of crazy aggression in my other game with Ruslan.

Markozeta
2016-12-22, 01:46 PM
EDIT: Having looked at the situation again, I'm much less sanguine. I think I was wrong earlier when I thought we could safely give up the pawn: I think we're not doomed, but didn't get anywhere near enough compensation. Sorry. :smalltongue: I'll have to assuage my pain by reaching new heights of crazy aggression in my other game with Ruslan.

Nonsense. He's got to respond against Rxe6 somehow. Only one of those options doesn't have a good strategic response (at least that I can see).


Qb8 leads to Qxa6. This has a risk of 29. ...Qf4, but moving Q back to d6 should allow Rxe6, if QxN, which puts us on even ground again.
Kg8 leads to Qg3, which then threatens Nf6+ or Nf8+. Enough pressure on the kingside and we should be able to squeeze a pawn somewhere. We're still probably at a draw, but seeing what he's done that's better than the other games. We'd probably be around the endgame.
Qa8 ... not sure what to do here. Maybe Qg3 as well? Sacrificing the knight with Nf8 would open that diagonal and column, allowing for perpetual check, but without support the queen couldn't do much more than harass the king. Hopefully he doesn't do this one.


- - - Updated - - -

Well, never mind. Qb8 it was!

Another vote:


Qxa6 - we're back on even footing. However, the immediate compensation has a risk or two - as above.
QxQ - We accept our pawn's loss and let the night fade away.
Ne5 - Target the f-pawn instead. QxQ, RxQ, we've got a fork between the f-pawn and a-pawn. Nxf becomes RxN, and RxN follows. Everything is exchanged, and we're in the endgame on even grounds with double rooks each - but with 1 v. 2 on the far side of the board for our king.


Me, I think the a-b pawns are a bigger threat in the upcoming endgame. I'd like to take the a-pawn out before it becomes a threat. The imbalance of force on the side furthest from our king could be the biggest problem in the inevitable pawn fight.

Bartmanhomer
2016-12-22, 03:22 PM
Nonsense. He's got to respond against Rxe6 somehow. Only one of those options doesn't have a good strategic response (at least that I can see).


Qb8 leads to Qxa6. This has a risk of 29. ...Qf4, but moving Q back to d6 should allow Rxe6, if QxN, which puts us on even ground again.
Kg8 leads to Qg3, which then threatens Nf6+ or Nf8+. Enough pressure on the kingside and we should be able to squeeze a pawn somewhere. We're still probably at a draw, but seeing what he's done that's better than the other games. We'd probably be around the endgame.
Qa8 ... not sure what to do here. Maybe Qg3 as well? Sacrificing the knight with Nf8 would open that diagonal and column, allowing for perpetual check, but without support the queen couldn't do much more than harass the king. Hopefully he doesn't do this one.


- - - Updated - - -

Well, never mind. Qb8 it was!

Another vote:


Qxa6 - we're back on even footing. However, the immediate compensation has a risk or two - as above.
QxQ - We accept our pawn's loss and let the night fade away.
Ne5 - Target the f-pawn instead. QxQ, RxQ, we've got a fork between the f-pawn and a-pawn. Nxf becomes RxN, and RxN follows. Everything is exchanged, and we're in the endgame on even grounds with double rooks each - but with 1 v. 2 on the far side of the board for our king.


Me, I think the a-b pawns are a bigger threat in the upcoming endgame. I'd like to take the a-pawn out before it becomes a threat. The imbalance of force on the side furthest from our king could be the biggest problem in the inevitable pawn fight.

Ne5. Pull a Ne5! :smile:

Valdarno
2016-12-22, 04:35 PM
I think it's definitely between Qxa6 and Ne5. I think you're probably right with the a-pawn - that'll be an unpleasant endgame if we get there, so let's kill it while have the chance.

Markozeta
2016-12-22, 05:15 PM
Alright. I'm going to sit on it a day. We've got 2 for Qxa6 and 1 for Ne5. We'll see if anyone shows up. This isn't a move to take lightly.

Valdarno
2016-12-23, 07:30 PM
I don't know the answer here - if nobody else wants to show up, do we want to flip a coin?

Markozeta
2016-12-25, 01:34 PM
I usually do a dice roll. But in this case, we're both on board. I'm making the move.

Merry Christmas!

Bartmanhomer
2016-12-25, 08:27 PM
I already said Ne5.

Markozeta
2016-12-26, 05:03 AM
Board Update (https://lichess.org/editor/5r1k/5ppp/Q3n3/1p6/5qN1/P7/1r3PPP/3RR1K1_w_Qq_-)

Man, you can cut the tension with a knife here, no? It's exhilarating.

Qd6 - My planned response I discussed before.
f3 - An interesting response. Defends the knight, protects the kingside.
h3 - which will be responded with immediately by h5. Let's call this option "How to lose a knight in two moves".

Valdarno
2016-12-26, 02:02 PM
Qd6 leaves us eventually a queen against two rooks (Qd6 Qxg4 Rxe6 Qxd1 Qxd1 fxe6), without very much choice. I think that's drawable from our perspective, but not great. I much prefer f3, which I realise is a change of plans, but I think is still a bit better.

Markozeta
2016-12-26, 02:44 PM
How do you see f3 playing out? I didn't analyze it as thoroughly as Qd6, but yes I saw Q v. 2R and thought it was halfway decent.

Valdarno
2016-12-27, 12:00 AM
It's hard to say, since he's got a lot more options. Maaaybe h5? If so, then probably Nf2 on our part, and I'd say the situation still favours him a bit, but there are no clear attacks and we're even in material.

Markozeta
2016-12-27, 11:47 AM
Nf2 is a pretty solid position. I'm concerned we'll lose a kingside pawn out of going defensive. An immediate rapid exchange would cut the heart out of his attack, and leave us with even pawns. I'll think about it some more.

Valdarno
2016-12-27, 01:55 PM
Even if we *did* lose a kingside pawn, we'd still probably be better off than Q for 2R at this stage - but I see no reason to think that we'd lose one. His attack really is a nonentity at the moment, because he's got no way of getting more support over to his queen.

Markozeta
2016-12-27, 03:27 PM
Alright, I'm on board. I'll wait a day to see if anyone else votes.

Markozeta
2016-12-28, 05:14 PM
Alright, I executed. We'll see what he pulls out.

Markozeta
2016-12-29, 02:07 PM
h5, as predicted. Let's see. Nf2 seems automatic, but I'll sit a day and see if anyone has a better idea.

Bartmanhomer
2016-12-29, 03:11 PM
I agree Nf2 is the way to go.

Valdarno
2016-12-31, 12:08 AM
Yep, I think so too. Nf2.

Markozeta
2017-01-03, 12:45 AM
Alright, with his drawing move, I don't see anything other than QxQ or Qd6. Which pretty much resets us back to where we were about four turns ago, sans a pair of pawns. Neither of these will amount to more than a draw, to be honest.

A separate vote for the draw proposal. Yet this one is a bigger decision. My take is we decline here, take the next two moves to ponder it, and then offer it ourselves. But for now, we vote on accepting this.

A final vote on whether we'd be fine with a reduced time frame (down to one day - I hate steamrolling everyone, but the endgame will take us until spring at three days a move.)

Bucky
2017-01-03, 06:07 PM
I'd say go ahead and draw.

Bartmanhomer
2017-01-03, 06:09 PM
No don't give up! Use QxQ.

Valdarno
2017-01-03, 08:59 PM
Qd6 is very bad, looking at it now - he would almost certainly go Rd8, and we'll wind up losing the pawn with no real recompense. I think QxQ is the best option, but on balance I think maybe we go for the draw. I think you're right - there really isn't much here that doesn't wind up in a draw.

Bartmanhomer
2017-01-04, 05:06 PM
Qd6 is very bad, looking at it now - he would almost certainly go Rd8, and we'll wind up losing the pawn with no real recompense. I think QxQ is the best option, but on balance I think maybe we go for the draw. I think you're right - there really isn't much here that doesn't wind up in a draw.

Yes I agree with you. Qd6 is bad. I'll say QxQ.

Markozeta
2017-01-05, 06:29 AM
Well,

Today is the day. I'll play the drawcard if nobody else comments in the next 12 hours, because I see it as kind of draw-ish.

If they do chime in, they'll have a tough time with anything but QxQ.

Valdarno
2017-01-05, 03:49 PM
I support the draw, if nobody has a brilliant scheme.

Bartmanhomer
2017-01-05, 03:52 PM
I support the draw, if nobody has a brilliant scheme.

I can't even come up with a powerful move. So I agree with you Valdarno. It should be a draw.

Feytalist
2017-01-09, 05:05 AM
Good going, guys. I mean, a draw isn't ideal, but I think we did pretty well.

So... rematch?

Bartmanhomer
2017-01-09, 12:57 PM
Good going, guys. I mean, a draw isn't ideal, but I think we did pretty well.

So... rematch?
You should ask Ruslan for a rematch.

Ruslan
2017-01-09, 02:20 PM
I'm allowed to read this thread now ...

Sorry, no rematch, the game was extremely taxing time- and energy-wise. I think I will take my 50% record in team chess matches to the grave.

Markozeta
2017-01-09, 03:00 PM
Yes, you are. And you can see how taxing it was on us. I spent a good hour playing matches between myself to post the votes.

Valdarno
2017-01-09, 11:19 PM
If people want another one, I kinda want to try a game with my psychotic aggressive impulses freed from the tyranny of cooler heads. :smalltongue:

Feytalist
2017-01-10, 03:38 AM
Yes, you are. And you can see how taxing it was on us. I spent a good hour playing matches between myself to post the votes.

Yeah. Instead of just second-guessing myself, I ended up second-guessing everyone else in the thread as well :smallbiggrin:


If people want another one, I kinda want to try a game with my psychotic aggressive impulses freed from the tyranny of cooler heads. :smalltongue:

I'd be down for it. My availability is sporadic, but I can throw in my two cents every so often.

Ruslan
2017-01-10, 05:38 PM
I also give a solemn promise to be sporadically available.