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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Make The True Namer Great Again (Brainstorming)



PapaQuackers
2016-09-17, 09:52 AM
Alright guys, we all know the tale of the drunkenly made accident that is the True Namer. It is a garbled mess that is unplayable at best and positively offensive at worst. So instead of trying to save the Titanic from sinking how about we build a new boat to try and save the survivors.

So this thread is purely for brainstorming about what features of the True Namer should stick, condensing some of it's lamer abilities into something good, and giving it archetypes.

Letta rip people.

khadgar567
2016-09-17, 10:33 AM
divines nearest ice berg then mind control the captain
tough luck mate

Lichtenstein
2016-09-17, 12:16 PM
There are issues with how good the spells are in the first place, but the most broken aspects of the class seem plenty fixable.

1. Get rid of the TrueName skill and replace it with Linguistics
2. Give the TrueNamer a bonus to Linguistics equal to their level. They do not gain bonus languages from this.
3. Make the Law of Resistance increase the DC by 1 instead of 2 for every subsequent spell cast that day. Keep the one good feature about it, namely that it doesn't increase when you fail.
4. make the ..whats it called.. Law of [the other thing], that restricts you from having more than 1 of the same truename spell simultaneously; replace that with a +2 DC increase instead of +1 for each subsequent casting

Keeping the 15+2xCR rule for DC while giving the TrueNamer a bonus to Linguistics equal to their level lets you keep truenaming as an ability that anyone can do in theory, but that TrueNamers can do consistantly. If you want it to be more accessible to everyone, remove the bonus to Linguistics and change the DC to 15+CR. This is more suitable if you want it to be a skill more than a class.

Edit: This is from a 3e perspective

Zaydos
2016-09-17, 01:51 PM
Well not the most experienced with 5e, but it should be easier to build in 5e due to the tighter bounded accuracy. Don't make Truespeech a skill (to avoid Expertise and the like), but make it Proficiency + Int, make the DC scale with a creature's CR at the same rate as proficiency (so assuming 20 Int a Lv 1 Truenamer has the same chance of affecting a CR 1 creature as a Lv 20 has of affecting a CR 20, but the Lv 1 has a worse chance against CR 20 than the Lv 20 does and the Lv 20 has a better chance against Lv 1 by... +4?). Then it's a matter of making the Utterances where they're balanced given the odds of failure. No law of resistance, no law of sequence, balance things as at-will abilities with a chance of failure preferably close to an attack roll's (of course growing stronger with level to keep up with bonus attacks).

Unfortunately my 5e experience is only Level 1-2 so I don't know how to scale things too well there.

arrowed
2016-09-17, 02:06 PM
How much do you need to take from Truenamer Mk1 if it was that disliked? Would it be easier to build it from scratch?
Some quick thoughts: the Warlock base design may be useful for making a 5e version. Design 'invocations' to represent different ways of using Truenames, like Name of Terror, Name of Binding, Name of Shielding. Let spells known become Lesser Truenames known, generic things like Fire, Elf, Dragon, Tree. Pact Magic slots are used to Name something instead, like Name of Terror: Dragon, would frighten dragons, or Name of Shielding: Fire, would grant resistance to fire. The slot level column simply increases the number of targets affected by each spell slot or something else that can scale like damage or area. The Mystic Arcana should be replaced by big, impressive powers like Name of Domination, Name of Immunity, Name of Death, etc. as 1/day powers. Subclasses might be based on the idea of mastering a specific Truename or class of Truenames, like the Names of the Living, the Names of the Elements, the Name of Magic, and grant more sophisticated control within that area, like giving a target disadvantage against your Naming of them or letting you maximise elemental damage with a name. Eldritch Master might be fine as it is, or it could allow a Truenamer to learn the Name of an individual creature with study to grant some kind of boost, but that might be better as a lower level feature. For the 1st and 3rd level features I'd simply add a couple of ways of using Names you think every Truenamer should know, especially since they don't get invocations at level 1. I don't know about cantrips. I guess they could be folded into the invocations column.
That's just me waffling. There might be something useful in there. Good luck to this thread! :smallsmile:

Ninjadeadbeard
2016-09-18, 02:13 AM
One thing we should decide: What sort of spellcasting is Truenaming most similar to? Do we build towards something that competes with 9th level Full Spellcasters? 5th level Half Casters? Or 4th level Quasi-Casters?

For fullcasting, a Truenamer's powers (most at-will naturally) will have to make up the large bulk of their ability. In the case of half and quasi casters, their Truenaming is either supplemented by or supplementing martial and/or skill abilities. I think any attempts at making the Truenamer have to start there.

Alternatively, make Truenamer a 5-level Prestige class. It's a knowledge base that any adventurer can make use of, it has various applications...and I'm not sure there's enough content in the concept for a whole class.

PapaQuackers
2016-09-18, 07:34 AM
I would say it would definitely be a full caster and while their may not be enough in the RAW to make it a class on it's own we can come up with some of our own abilities should we need to. There's plenty of source material for true naming in literature, The Name of the Wind springs to mind for me, and with what's been said here I don't think it'll be too difficult considering you have 4 dead levels for ability score improvement. That's really only 16 levels in which you need a class progression.

Jormengand
2016-09-18, 11:21 AM
I attempted a truenamer here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?495113-The-Truenamer-(3-5-to-5-conversion-PEACH)). Note that despite being one of the worst 3.5 classes, if you try to port it faithfully to 5th edition it immediately becomes massively overpowered, so... well, you can read the responses I got.

clash
2016-09-18, 05:19 PM
I started work on a more altered take on it, never finished it though. You can use the ideas if you want. The idea was to keep it as a full caster

Trunamer conversion
works on basis:
Base truespeak dc = 0
Every successful truespeak increses dc by 1
Check = 11 + 4 * lexicon level



20 levels: (Truespeak Bonus)
1 - (0) Utterences, Subclass
2 - (3) knowledge focus (arcane, religion and a few others)
3 - (4) Keep your distance - Anytime you fail at speaking an utterance you may immediately move half your speed as a bonus action
4 - (5) ability score improvement
5 - (6) Truespeak dc goes down by 1 every short rest
6 - (7) subclass
7 - (8) -------------------------
8 - (9) ability score improvment
9 - (10) Knowledge focus
10 - (11) subclass
11 - (12) Speak unto the masses - all single target lexicons of 5th level and lower can target group within 30ft = int modifier/per day, words of power(mystic arcanum) 6th lvl
12 - (13) ability score improvement
13 - (13) words of power 7th lvl
14 - (13) Subclass
15 - (13) words of power 8th lvl
16 - (13) ability score improvement
17 - (13) words of power 9th lvl
18 - (13) Subclass
19 - (13) ------------------------
20 - (13) Relentless: the dc of your truespeak check goes down by one at the start of each combat

Subclasses: Researcher, Reciter, Binder
Researcher:
1 Personal truename - double proficiency to check for yourself
6 Truename research - spend a minute studying a person, place, or object to learn their truename (double proficiency)
10 See the named - Scry on a person or object or place whose truename you know
14 Summon the named - As an action summon to your hand an object whose truename you know
18 Say my name and I am there - Give part of your personal truname to someone and they can summon you by saying it
Reciter:
1 Recitations - basically truname rituals
6 Tounge of fire - fiery breath weapon utterance
10 Personal candence - choose one first level utterence that you have access to. You may add double your proficiency bonus when speaking this utterence.
14 Words of unmaking - Disintegrate utterance
18 Words of creation - True ressurection utterance
Binder:
1 Tounges - You can understand and speak any language
6 Bind creature - You bind a creature to yourself for 1 min(wisdom save). Anytime you or the creature takes damage you may alocate the dmg how you choose between the two. Each time it takes dmg in this manner it recieves another saving throw. 1/short rest.
10 Elemental bind - You gain the conjure or banish utterance(or a different one if you have it already) and any time you speak it to conjure a single elemental you may bind that elemental as a bonus action and it lasts for the duration of the utterance.
14 Share spells variant - Any effect applied to yourself from an utterance can also apply to any creature that you have bound
18 Chains of servitude - 1/day when you bind a creature to yourself it is treated as if under the effects of dominate monster. Each time it takes dmg from any source it may attempt a new saving throw.


Lexicon 1 (4)
Level 11 18 times -2 base check
Level 9 17 times -1 base check
Level 7 14 times 2 base check
Level 5 10 times 5 base check
Level 3 7 times 6 base check
Level 1 2 times 11 base check
Lexicon 2 (8)
Level 11 14 times -2 base check
Level 9 13 times -1 base check
Level 7 9 times 2 base check
Level 5 6 times 5 base check
Level 3 4 times 6 base check
Lexicon 3 (12)
Level 11 10 times -2 base check
Level 9 9 times -1 base check
Level 7 6 times 2 base check
Level 5 2 times 5 base check
Lexicon 4 (16)
Level 11 6 times -2 base check
Level 9 5 times -1 base check
Level 7 1 times 2 base check
Lexicon 5 (20)
Level 11 2 times -2 base check
Level 9 1 times -1 base check