Building an RKV

[Alphabetmaster]

Hello all. I've been a massive fan of these threads; long-time lurker, first time poster.
I want to build an RKV, to fill both primary spell caster and (to a lesser extent) BSF Gish roles.
Question is, how do?

I want information on the overall build, race, templates, feats to take, equipment ideas, the whole shebang.
-Gameplay starts at level 15, going to 20, perhaps low epic.
-Party members are undecided.
-RKV refluffed; any deity allowed, any alignment (Well, except for CN)
-Traits and flaws allowed; LA buyoff allowed.
-All sources allowed, subject to DM.
-PrCs can be entered using magic items to meet requirements.
-Nightsticks do NOT stack :smallfrown: (Though I might be able to convince my DM otherwise if it's RAW)
-Ur-Priest does not require Ebil Alignment.
-Traits and Flaws allowed.

My DM loves to homebrew, but can't balance for his life. He's made a class that very closely resembles the Telflammar-shadowlord, but also progressing divine spellcasting (and a few minor changes), which I kinda want to use - it would fit thematically.

[Darrin]

Priorities: do you want 9th level spells or 9th level maneuvers? (Actually, I think you can get both with an Ur-Priest dip.)

Do you prefer cleric casting or paladin casting? Do you want max BAB, almost max, or "Eff it I have Persistent Divine Powah!"?

If Shadow Pounce is in play... Divine Impetus + free dimension hop (Linked Power + synchronicity) could be interesting.

[Alphabetmaster]

Priorities: do you want 9th level spells or 9th level maneuvers? (Actually, I think you can get both with an Ur-Priest dip.)
I value spells over manoeuvres, but getting both would be appreciated.


Do you prefer cleric casting or paladin casting? Do you want max BAB, almost max, or "Eff it I have Persistent Divine Powah!"?
I PREFER Cleric Casting to Paladin, but either is acceptable, I suppose. I want to reach 16 BAB as a minimum, because my DM likes Dispel Magic from time to time, but I can consider other options, If you've got them.


If Shadow Pounce is in play... Divine Impetus + free dimension hop (Linked Power + synchronicity) could be interesting.
In what way? I never understood how that combo worked.

[Big Fau]

You could also enter via Swordsage and get Tornado Throw at higher levels, and then have some real fun with several Divine spells.

[Eldariel]

I value spells over manoeuvres, but getting both would be appreciated.

Ur-Priest is your only real option if you want 9th level spells and maneuvers. As a bonus, Ur-Priest 2/RKV 10 gets you 10th level manoeuvres right out of the box. Thus that frees up the rest of your levels to do whatever you please with (you need 14 levels in initiator classes to pick up a 9th level maneuver on level 20, so at least 4 of the remaining 8 levels need to be primary initiator ones)


In what way? I never understood how that combo worked.

Shadow Pounce enables you to make a full attack whenever you teleport next to someone. Linked Power is a metapsionic feat that enables combining two psionic powers; Dimension Hop is a short range teleport ability. Thus you can do swift action one-turn-delayed teleports using the extra standard action from Synchronity to recover your Psionic Focus (you need Psionic Meditation feat). Essentially, Linked Power allows quickening powers with just 1 power point cost.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unless the DM is willing to waive the RKV requirement that you worship Wee Jas or adapt Ur-priest to be okay with deity worship, RKV and Ur-priest are mutually incompatible. You can't worship a goddess and have contempt for the divine at the same time.

[Alphabetmaster]

Ur-Priest is your only real option if you want 9th level spells and maneuvers. As a bonus, Ur-Priest 2/RKV 10 gets you 10th level manoeuvres right out of the box. Thus that frees up the rest of your levels to do whatever you please with (you need 14 levels in initiator classes to pick up a 9th level maneuver on level 20, so at least 4 of the remaining 8 levels need to be primary initiator ones)
9th level manoeuvres aren't as important as 9th level spells, but more is more. Out of interest, what am I trading if I take, say, Cleric instead of Ur-Priest?


Unless the DM is willing to waive the RKV requirement that you worship Wee Jas or adapt Ur-priest to be okay with deity worship, RKV and Ur-priest are mutually incompatible. You can't worship a goddess and have contempt for the divine at the same time.

It's been waived. So god-worshipping and god-hating classes are possible, here.
The campaign reason is rather complicated, but it's been given the green-light by my DM.

[Eldariel]

9th level manoeuvres aren't as important as 9th level spells, but more is more. Out of interest, what am I trading if I take, say, Cleric instead of Ur-Priest?

Ur-Priest gets 9th level spells in 10 levels (or well, 9). Cleric gets there in 17. You have Domains as a Cleric of course (there are some ways to add them onto the Ur-Priest chassis as well) but ultimately, the basic trade-off comes down to the number of divine casting levels you need to cast 9s.

[Alphabetmaster]

Ur-Priest gets 9th level spells in 10 levels (or well, 9). Cleric gets there in 17. You have Domains as a Cleric of course (there are some ways to add them onto the Ur-Priest chassis as well) but ultimately, the basic trade-off comes down to the number of divine casting levels you need to cast 9s.

So... Ur-Priest is Cleric progression on steroids, minus a feat or two? So... Me want?

[ExLibrisMortis]

So... Ur-Priest is Cleric progression on steroids, minus a feat or two? So... Me want?
Yeah. If you don't particularly want the two or three extra spells/day on your higher-level spells, definitely dip Ur-Priest 2 and advance that. And when it comes to 9ths, it's more about having them at all, than having the 5th daily spell slot.

If you're going to do that, why not add Prestige Paladin 1-2 (Divine Grace, all paladin spells on your list - has to be a LE paladin of Pandorym or something) and Ordained Champion 3-5 (spontaneous War domain, channel spell, some nice buffs- again, LE champion of Pandorym)? You lose caster levels, but a build like crusader 5/ur-priest 2/PP 2/OC 5/RKV 7 (ECL 21, PrCs in any order) gets 19/20 bab, 9th-level cleric spells, and 8th-level maneuvers, despite ten levels being non-casting. (Pseudo) Telflammar Shadowlord is probably a bit stronger than OC, with Shadowpounce being what it is, but there are a few nice cleric gish classes.

[gorfnab]

Two other Ur-Priest builds for Ruby Knight Vindicator:
Human Paragon 1/ Crusader 4/ Ur-Priest 2/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/ Crusader 3
Paladin of Tyranny 2/ Hexblade 3/ Crusader 3/ Ur-Priest 2/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 10

[Darrin]

A "typical" UrKV might look like:

Race: Human
Stub: Duskblade 1/Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Crusader 3/Ur-Priest 2/RKV 10/Crusader +3
Feats: Apprentice: Criminal (1st), Iron Will (1st), Spell Focus: Evil (3rd), Extend Spell (6th), Persistent Spell (9th), Divine Metamagic (12th), Extra Turning (15th), Extra Turning (18th)

Hmm... starting with Hexblade might save a feat, as they have Bluff as a class skill, but then taking Spell Focus at 3rd looks a little silly (no spells). However, oddly enough you do not need to cast spells to take Spell Focus.

That gets you 9th level spells and 9th level maneuvers. Skill points are a little tight, but it's doable.



Shadow Pounce enables you to make a full attack whenever you teleport next to someone. Linked Power is a metapsionic feat that enables combining two psionic powers; Dimension Hop is a short range teleport ability. Thus you can do swift action one-turn-delayed teleports using the extra standard action from Synchronity to recover your Psionic Focus (you need Psionic Meditation feat). Essentially, Linked Power allows quickening powers with just 1 power point cost.

Dimension hop + synchronicity + Linked Power + Metapower = 0 PP, which means the only thing limiting your full attacks is how many swift actions you can churn out with Divine Impetus. This assumes your DM doesn't rule that it requires a standard action to activate (the default for Supernatural abilities is a standard action). Those two powers don't appear on the same list, so you have to kitbash Ardent/Wilder/Mantled Warrior together with Hidden Talent. And yes, you need Psionic Meditation to get your focus back, so it's pretty feat intensive.

Getting RKV, Shadow Pounce, and dimension hop into the same chassis...oook, that may be a bit tricky.

[Alphabetmaster]

A "typical" UrKV might look like:
*Snip*
That gets you 9th level spells and 9th level maneuvers. Skill points are a little tight, but it's doable.

Dimension hop + synchronicity + Linked Power + Metapower = 0 PP, which means the only thing limiting your full attacks is how many swift actions you can churn out with Divine Impetus. This assumes your DM doesn't rule that it requires a standard action to activate (the default for Supernatural abilities is a standard action). Those two powers don't appear on the same list, so you have to kitbash Ardent/Wilder/Mantled Warrior together with Hidden Talent. And yes, you need Psionic Meditation to get your focus back, so it's pretty feat intensive.

Getting RKV, Shadow Pounce, and dimension hop into the same chassis...oook, that may be a bit tricky.
I've conned my DM into allowing me to chaos-shuffle my feats. DM only stops further progression of a class if they no longer qualify, so I'll be able to atleast, say, change out the feats I grab for prerequisites when I'm done advancing in that class.

My party are reasonably competent at optimizing and playing in general, so I don't mind if the build 'comes online' until level 19-20.