D&D 5e Tempest Cleric help.

[RemyWonderland]

Hello everyone! Sorry I'm new to this forum things so I won't be adding any fancy colored text or pictures.

I need help building my character. I for sure want to play a Tempest Cleric. Striking enemies down with lightning while being able to fly later on sounds so awesome.

My problem is I'm having trouble deciding what's better going full Wisdom wearing heavy armor, and a shield, or have less Wisdom and put some of it in strength. Also what weapons should I use if any?

We are starting at level 1. And using the regular stat array. Race doesn't matter so much but I was considering being a variant human for a feat but I wouldn't know which one to take.

If anyone has played a Tempest Cleric please tell me how it went. What build did you use?

Thanks. :)

[R.Shackleford]

Hello everyone! Sorry I'm new to this forum things so I won't be adding any fancy colored text or pictures.

I need help building my character. I for sure want to play a Tempest Cleric. Striking enemies down with lightning while being able to fly later on sounds so awesome.

My problem is I'm having trouble deciding what's better going full Wisdom wearing heavy armor, and a shield, or have less Wisdom and put some of it in strength. Also what weapons should I use if any?

We are starting at level 1. And using the regular stat array. Race doesn't matter so much but I was considering being a variant human for a feat but I wouldn't know which one to take.

If anyone has played a Tempest Cleric please tell me how it went. What build did you use?

Thanks. :)

Str 13
Dex: 10
Con: Mid
Int: 10
Wis: Max
Cha: whatever.

Pick up Shilleighlagh (Lv 1) and charger feats (Lv 4)

Level 8 boost Wis by 1 or 2.

You are a pretty good smacker.

[Finieous]

I played a tempest cleric from 1st to 18th level. My race was a sea elf conversion and we used standard array. I started with Wis 14, took Resilient (Con) at 4th level, and then maxed Wisdom at 8th, 12th and 16th. That seemed to work fine -- I didn't feel like my save DCs were too far behind. That said, I'd start with Wis 16 if I could. You're a full spellcaster -- after low levels, melee will never be anything other than what you do when the situation isn't important enough for you to cast a spell with your action. It's there, but I wouldn't try to build around it. The action economy and opportunity cost will always be the big limitation on it.

[Specter]

Without STR, you won't be able to use the best heavy armor.

Considering a point buy, I'd go 15-10-14-8-15-8.

[Eladain]

Variant Human is always a solid choice with the free feat (Warcaster?).

I'm a pretty big fan of Hill Dwarf for a tempest cleric though. Just the whole aesthetic of dwarves, and gods, and hammers and lightning.

Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14(16)
Int 10
Wis 15(16)
Cha 8

I think heavy armor and a shield is a given for most clerics and the extra HP and Darkvision are never bad things.

Progression depends a bit on party makeup. If you're on the front line and making concentration checks a lot then Warcaster @4, +Wis @8/12. If you can safely sit in the back then +Wis @4/8 then feats/ASI's as desired.

[RemyWonderland]

Variant Human is always a solid choice with the free feat (Warcaster?).

I'm a pretty big fan of Hill Dwarf for a tempest cleric though. Just the whole aesthetic of dwarves, and gods, and hammers and lightning.

Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14(16)
Int 10
Wis 15(16)
Cha 8

I think heavy armor and a shield is a given for most clerics and the extra HP and Darkvision are never bad things.


See I really enjoy role playing my character. For some reason I don't feel like I can be anything other than a human or elf. I can picture myself in the shoes of a none normal-ish human figure.

What do you think about the Elemental Adept feat?

[RemyWonderland]

I played a tempest cleric from 1st to 18th level. My race was a sea elf conversion and we used standard array. I started with Wis 14, took Resilient (Con) at 4th level, and then maxed Wisdom at 8th, 12th and 16th. That seemed to work fine -- I didn't feel like my save DCs were too far behind. That said, I'd start with Wis 16 if I could. You're a full spellcaster -- after low levels, melee will never be anything other than what you do when the situation isn't important enough for you to cast a spell with your action. It's there, but I wouldn't try to build around it. The action economy and opportunity cost will always be the big limitation on it.

Thanks for the input. I was thinking about going full caster. And since you survived to level 18 it is clearly viable. (:

[RemyWonderland]

Without STR, you won't be able to use the best heavy armor.

Considering a point buy, I'd go 15-10-14-8-15-8.

I don't see myself wearing the heaviest. I think chain mail will be enough for me. I don't want to completely min max because my DM is kind of new. I've played way more than him so I'm not trying to give him a hard time.

[R.Shackleford]

Thanks for the input. I was thinking about going full caster. And since you survived to level 18 it is clearly viable. (:


I don't see myself wearing the heaviest. I think chain mail will be enough for me. I don't want to completely min max because my DM is kind of new. I've played way more than him so I'm not trying to give him a hard time.


See I really enjoy role playing my character. For some reason I don't feel like I can be anything other than a human or elf. I can picture myself in the shoes of a none normal-ish human figure.

What do you think about the Elemental Adept feat?

If you hit the little " symbol to the lower right corner of a post you can multi quote :)

[RemyWonderland]

If you hit the little " symbol to the lower right corner of a post you can multi quote :)

Oh thank you. My apologies for spamming.

[Saggo]

You're a full spellcaster -- after low levels, melee will never be anything other than what you do when the situation isn't important enough for you to cast a spell with your action. It's there, but I wouldn't try to build around it. The action economy and opportunity cost will always be the big limitation on it.

It's different if you get Booming Blade. Combined with Divine Strike, it's up to 5d8 thunder damage that you can use Destructive Wrath with on top of the weapon and rider damage. What makes this worth it is that you can also choose to use Destructive Wrath after you determine if you land the hit, unlike most spells where a target can still save. You have to upscale your spells to max slot to have better average single target damage, which isn't sustainable.

AoEs are a different story. But even without Destructive Wrath, Booming Blade is decent melee damage.

[Calibus]

Tempest is stronk.

Get warcaster, the Advantage on Con saves and the ability to use spells as an Opportunity Attack, mixed with the Wrath and the Maximum damage you can output so much damage. The downside being that Tempest falls short when it comes to actually receiving any form of Thunder/Lightning spells.

In my experience as a primary Cleric player, if you go tempest and don't intend to keep a primary healing role, Start multiclassing at levels 2 or 9. Take either Wizard or Sorcerer. Sorcerer will supply you many more Lighting/thunder spells, top it off Draconic sorcerer will give you flying at Sorc(14) so you'll get flying sooner. Or go with Favored Soul (life domain) if you want to keep a Primary Healing role and still get flying at Sorc(14) Makes you a huge threat and taking Elemental Adept is never a bad idea.

Biggest downside though with that idea, Charisma is a huge issue and could be a detriment to your character MAD could make you choose one spell modifier or the other.

EDIT:

Staring to Multiclass at 6 isn't a bad idea either.

[CantigThimble]

I don't see myself wearing the heaviest. I think chain mail will be enough for me. I don't want to completely min max because my DM is kind of new. I've played way more than him so I'm not trying to give him a hard time.

I think as long as you aren't doing anything crazy like taking heavy armor master or polearm master at level one you aren't going to break his game. Having 16-17 in two primary stats is pretty reasonable for a first level character, at least in my experience.

[bid]

Without STR, you won't be able to use the best heavy armor.
Not quite. It'll only slow you down.

Still, you'll want a good attack stat:
- vuman 16 10 14 8 16 8 allows you to grab any feat. If you get observant or resilient (Con) you can have Cha10.
- wood elf 10 16 14 8 16 10 works great with medium armor.
- hill dwarf 15 10 15 8 16 10 also works.

If you want to go with shillelagh:
- vuman 10 14 16 8 16 10 with magic initiate and medium armor.


I think it's more a question of which flavor you want, what's your RP concept.

[Finieous]

It's different if you get Booming Blade. Combined with Divine Strike, it's up to 5d8 thunder damage that you can use Destructive Wrath with on top of the weapon and rider damage. What makes this worth it is that you can also choose to use Destructive Wrath after you determine if you land the hit, unlike most spells where a target can still save. You have to upscale your spells to max slot to have better average single target damage, which isn't sustainable.


Did you play this build at Tier 4? Here are the issues I see:

* How do I get booming blade, and what are opportunity costs for that?
* What is the opportunity cost of increasing my attack ability score to make BB effective?
* What are the opportunity costs of a build that can hang in melee against Tier 3 and 4 creatures?
* After all those tradeoffs, my one attack for weapon + 5d8 is weak against Tier 3 and 4 creatures.
- Compare to a plain ol' vanilla rogue at that level: weapon + 9d6 (and a much better candidate for booming blade).
* I get Destructive Wrath max 3 times/rest; I don't want to use it on a cantrip.
* Unless it's a trash fight, it's your actions that matter -- the fight won't last long. In a tough fight, you'll always have something better to do with your action.

Bottom line: I'm a spellcaster, I'd prefer to build to that strength. Get my Wisdom up and take Resilient (Con) and/or Warcaster. Ideally both, because you start taking some god-awful amounts of damage at high levels. When that's accomplished, sure, go ahead and boost your attack stat, take Magic Initiate or whatever, maybe Mobile so you can sometimes get that secondary damage, and then you can have okay melee capability to use in easy fights. All IMHO - at the end of the day, play whatever is fun for you.

[Herobizkit]

Side question. What pantheons are available to choose from in your DM's world? If s/he's using the Forgotten Realms as default, there aren't that many Gods that offer Tempest as a suggested theme* and the ones that do are generally Evil*.

However, if you're keen on playing an Elf... Aerdrie Faenya, Queen of the Avariel (portfolio: Air, avariels, avians, fertility, rain, weather) is Chaotic Good. I think in today's FR she's part of the Triune Goddess alongside Sehanine Moonbow and Hanali Celanil (she was in 2e and 3e, I think?). A medium-armored Archer/skirmisher might be the order of the day, thematically. All else fails, pick Half-elf ^_^

* though, remember, Clerics of any type can worship any God and be of any alignment in 5e; mechanically, nothing is required to 'match' your deity of choice.

[Citan]

Hello everyone! Sorry I'm new to this forum things so I won't be adding any fancy colored text or pictures.

I need help building my character. I for sure want to play a Tempest Cleric. Striking enemies down with lightning while being able to fly later on sounds so awesome.

My problem is I'm having trouble deciding what's better going full Wisdom wearing heavy armor, and a shield, or have less Wisdom and put some of it in strength. Also what weapons should I use if any?

We are starting at level 1. And using the regular stat array. Race doesn't matter so much but I was considering being a variant human for a feat but I wouldn't know which one to take.

If anyone has played a Tempest Cleric please tell me how it went. What build did you use?

Thanks. :)
Hi!

Considering your input from other posts (fullcaster, human/elf) I'd suggest Variant Human build with Magic Initiate feat. 2 options:

1. Taking Druid for Shillelagh and either Thorn Whip (for some controlish ability) or Produce Flame (so you don't need to take Light, and you have a decent ranged attack).
This way, you can start with good STR (for heavy armor) and WIS (for everything) then just bump WIS, spending the other ASI on either CON bumps or feats.
As for the 1st level spell, I'd say Fog Cloud, Entangle or Faerie Fire are decent choices, as well as Longstrider.


2. Taking Wizard for access to SCAG cantrip: grab Lightning Lure/Shocking Grasp/GFB and Booming Blade, and Find Familiar as your 1st level spell.
Since you don't have any ability prerequisites to take the feat (contrarily to Ritual Caster), you can very well take it with <13 INT.
Booming Blade and GFB don't really rely on spellcasting stat so you don't care. Ligthning Lure and Shocking Grasp do though, so don't take either unless you rolled stats with high enough results to have 16+ INT.
Find Familiar gives you a familiar that can scout and deliver Touch spells, which is always nice.

Build 1 is the easiest to play.
Build 2 will be more powerful if you build up STR, but at the detriment of WIS and feats. So only if you really want to play with Booming Blade and Familiar.

Note that I didn't include any multiclass since you want to be a fullcaster, meaning at least lvl 17 Cleric.
As considering that 18th brings 3rd CD/short rest, and 20th capstone which can be a game changer, I made the guess you wouldn't want any dip.
If in fact the capstone does not interest you, I'd be happy to provide 1-2-3 level dips. :)

[RemyWonderland]

Note that I didn't include any multiclass since you want to be a fullcaster, meaning at least lvl 17 Cleric.
As considering that 18th brings 3rd CD/short rest, and 20th capstone which can be a game changer, I made the guess you wouldn't want any dip.
If in fact the capstone does not interest you, I'd be happy to provide 1-2-3 level dips. :)

I've never multiclassed before even during my years playing 3.5e though I've always been interested in doing so. Is it more difficult to multiclass in 5e than 3.5? There seems to be a lot of things class reliant in 5.

[Citan]

I've never multiclassed before even during my years playing 3.5e though I've always been interested in doing so. Is it more difficult to multiclass in 5e than 3.5? There seems to be a lot of things class reliant in 5.
It is not more difficult, except if you want to multiclass in a class with very different ability requirements (say cross Cleric with Paladin).

But you usually trade long-term powerful features (highest level) for "lesser" features that you can enjoy for the most of your career.
Generally, the advice is: if you didn't already think about multiclassing, it's because you probably don't need it. ;)
Especially a Cleric, can be fine on its own.

[RemyWonderland]

It is not more difficult, except if you want to multiclass in a class with very different ability requirements (say cross Cleric with Paladin).

But you usually trade long-term powerful features (highest level) for "lesser" features that you can enjoy for the most of your career.
Generally, the advice is: if you didn't already think about multiclassing, it's because you probably don't need it. ;)
Especially a Cleric, can be fine on its own.

I looked into the magic initiate feat, shocking grasp, and the familiar spell. That's awesome! Touch attacks from range. And a lightning one at that!

[Rysto]

The trouble with Shocking Grasp is that you would have to use either CHA or INT as your casting stat, which probably makes it a lot less likely that you'll land it.

[RemyWonderland]

The trouble with Shocking Grasp is that you would have to use either CHA or INT as your casting stat, which probably makes it a lot less likely that you'll land it.

That's true. Though my Charisma is one of my saves I don't know if it is really worth investing into the stat. Really the only stat I absolutely need is wisdom.

[RemyWonderland]

So I really love the magic initiate feat. I was thinking about taking Lightning Lure and Booming Blade as my cantrips. Maybe sleep as the first level spell? I'm not 100% certain on which I want to take regarding that.

[NNescio]

I looked into the magic initiate feat, shocking grasp, and the familiar spell. That's awesome! Touch attacks from range. And a lightning one at that!

It tends to result in instant death for the familiar, however. As for why:

1) Your familiar and you act on different initiatives.
2) You need to park your familiar next to an enemy (on his initiative, which you can telepathically command him to do so out-of-turn).
3) You need to wait until your turn, and then cast Shocking Grasp. At the same time your familiar uses his reaction to deliver the spell for you.

Lots of bad things can happen to your familiar between (2) and (2), especially after you pull the trick once. You can't really benefit from owl flyby as well. Heck, even an enemy moving out of reach can ruin this combo.

That said, it can be nasty trick when combined with Fog Cloud or other vision-impairing effects though on a familiar with Blindsight (i.e. the bat), which helps keeps him alive. Chainlock imps can also grant advantage without breaking their Invisibility. Just be aware that attacking (including spell attacks) still breaks Hidden status, even if the enemy can't see your familiar.

[RemyWonderland]

It tends to result in instant death for the familiar, however. As for why:

1) Your familiar and you act on different initiatives.
2) You need to park your familiar next to an enemy (on his initiative, which you can telepathically command him to do so out-of-turn).
3) You need to wait until your turn, and then cast Shocking Grasp. At the same time your familiar uses his reaction to deliver the spell for you.

Lots of bad things can happen to your familiar between (2) and (2), especially after you pull the trick once. You can't really benefit from owl flyby as well. Heck, even an enemy moving out of reach can ruin this combo.

That said, it can be nasty trick when combined with Fog Cloud or other vision-impairing effects though on a familiar with Blindsight (i.e. the bat), which helps keeps him alive. Chainlock imps can also grant advantage without breaking their Invisibility. Just be aware that attacking (including spell attacks) still breaks Hidden status, even if the enemy can't see your familiar.

Yeah that's true. Though I have Fog Cloud for just being a Tempest Cleric I don't see myself taking that much time to set up for the little bit of damage it can do.

[NNescio]

Yeah that's true. Though I have Fog Cloud for just being a Tempest Cleric I don't see myself taking that much time to set up for the little bit of damage it can do.

You might be able to persuade your DM to let it act on your own initiative, as a houserule. In my experience this is a very common (accidental) houserule anyway. Well, until someone starts using the familiar a little too well (usually via Owl flyby spamming the Help action for at-will advantage), which will prompt the DM to read the entire rules text, anyway. So I wouldn't recommend pulling the wool over his eyes, but he might consider it if you tell him everything nicely.

[Saggo]

Did you play this build at Tier 4? Here are the issues I see:

* How do I get booming blade, and what are opportunity costs for that?
* What is the opportunity cost of increasing my attack ability score to make BB effective?
* What are the opportunity costs of a build that can hang in melee against Tier 3 and 4 creatures?
* After all those tradeoffs, my one attack for weapon + 5d8 is weak against Tier 3 and 4 creatures.
- Compare to a plain ol' vanilla rogue at that level: weapon + 9d6 (and a much better candidate for booming blade).
* I get Destructive Wrath max 3 times/rest; I don't want to use it on a cantrip.
* Unless it's a trash fight, it's your actions that matter -- the fight won't last long. In a tough fight, you'll always have something better to do with your action.

Bottom line: I'm a spellcaster, I'd prefer to build to that strength. Get my Wisdom up and take Resilient (Con) and/or Warcaster. Ideally both, because you start taking some god-awful amounts of damage at high levels. When that's accomplished, sure, go ahead and boost your attack stat, take Magic Initiate or whatever, maybe Mobile so you can sometimes get that secondary damage, and then you can have okay melee capability to use in easy fights. All IMHO - at the end of the day, play whatever is fun for you.

The costs are no different to anyone else considering an attack stat and a casting stat and trying to get access to a cantrip. And in fact, Clerics can get away with a lower casting stat since a good amount of their useful spells don't need it.

And I think you missed the point of Booming Blade It's not 1-5d8 damage, it's guaranteed 8-40+weapon+mod damage since you can choose to Channel Divinity after you hit. You can't do that with a spell. The only way to guarantee that with a spell is to hit multiple targets or upscale to max slot. Upscaling to max slot is not sustainable and prevents you from using other high level spells.

So Booming Blade with Destructive Wrath easily has a place in a fight, guaranteed single target spike damage with a lower cost to your adventuring day. Whether it's a cantrip or not is irrelevant. While it's not superior to a pure spellcaster, it does do something a pure caster can't; that's a far cry from melee isn't important and not being able to build around it.


3) You need to wait until your turn, and then cast Shocking Grasp. At the same time your familiar uses his reaction to deliver the spell for you.

Lots of bad things can happen to your familiar between (2) and (2), especially after you pull the trick once. You can't really benefit from owl flyby as well. Heck, even an enemy moving out of reach can ruin this combo.

You can mitigate this with a Readied spell with the trigger "my familiar is in 5ft of a target". Now you can use an Owl's Flyby on his turn and still cast. But this will eat up your Concentration and more importantly spells from Wizard will use Int.

[bid]

1) Your familiar and you act on different initiatives.
2) You need to park your familiar next to an enemy (on his initiative, which you can telepathically command him to do so out-of-turn).
3) You need to wait until your turn, and then cast Shocking Grasp. At the same time your familiar uses his reaction to deliver the spell for you.
Or you ready the spell and use your reaction on your familiar's turn.

Not much better, but at least you can flyby.

[Finieous]

The costs are no different to anyone else considering an attack stat and a casting stat and trying to get access to a cantrip. And in fact, Clerics can get away with a lower casting stat since a good amount of their useful spells don't need it.


I'm not really sure what you mean, other than bless and very high level stuff like heal and holy aura. The spells I used most -- cures, mass cures, spiritual weapon, spirit guardians, call lightning, etc., either depend on Wisdom for attack bonus or save DC. It modifies the number spells I can prepare and the number of times I can use my reaction attack to maximize action economy efficiency.

But assuming I can start with Wisdom 16, I want to increase my Wisdom to 20 and pick up at least Resilient (Con), if not Warcaster as well. I get ASI/feats at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19. Go ahead and figure out where you fit inbooming blade, a competitive attack stat, and sufficient durability to use them in Tier 3 and 4 fights. I think you'll find there are, in fact, real opportunity costs.

And then, I think you'll find that action economy, in every game situation important enough to matter, means you'll be casting a spell instead of making a melee attack. And you'll be worse at it because you traded off casting ability to bolster your one melee attack per turn.



And I think you missed the point of Booming Blade It's not 1-5d8 damage, it's guaranteed 8-40+weapon+mod damage since you can choose to Channel Divinity after you hit. You can't do that with a spell. The only way to guarantee that with a spell is to hit multiple targets or upscale to max slot. Upscaling to max slot is not sustainable and prevents you from using other high level spells.


I'm saying a once/turn 40+weapon+mod single-target damage attack three times per rest at 18th level is weak. It's not worth building around, it's not worth getting into melee to execute, it's not worth using Destructive Wrath, and it's not worth your action in any fight that matters. You're going to sacrifice what you're good at -- both in the character build and in your use of action economy -- to bolster something you're bad at. It's not a good tradeoff.

Of course, it might be fun. It might be the character you want to play. If so, that's totally cool. Otherwise, if you want a character well suited to melee with real attack capability, durability, and big novas, I'd say look at paladin. Because clerics past Tier 2 (or even Tier 1), are spellcasters. IME and IMHO.

[Saggo]

But assuming I can start with Wisdom 16, I want to increase my Wisdom to 20 and pick up at least Resilient (Con), if not Warcaster as well. I get ASI/feats at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19. Go ahead and figure out where you fit inbooming blade, a competitive attack stat, and sufficient durability to use them in Tier 3 and 4 fights. I think you'll find there are, in fact, real opportunity costs.

The simple argument is that Cleric builds using Melee + Spiritual Weapon/Spiritual Guardians are common and if it was too hard for a Cleric to make a build with an Attack stat, Casting stat, and some Con then War Clerics, Rangers, and poor Monks are impossible to build for too. It's not hard to apply the same builds to Tempest.

If you absolutely need a road map from level 1 to 20, start Vuman, get a feat for BB, start with 16 Str and 16 Wis with point buy. By level 20 you can have 2 20s in stats or a 20, 18, and Resilient. You don't need Warcaster. It's not hard.



I'm saying a once/turn 40+weapon+mod single-target damage attack three times per rest at 18th level is weak. It's not worth building around, it's not worth getting into melee to execute, it's not worth using Destructive Wrath, and it's not worth your action in any fight that matters. You're going to sacrifice what you're good at -- both in the character build and in your use of action economy -- to bolster something you're bad at. It's not a good tradeoff.
For Call Lightning to do 50 damage, it needs to do 10d10 damage if resisted. That's a level 9 slot with an existing storm. Thunderwave or Shatter need to do 12.5d8, easily taking your 7th, 8th, or 9th slot. Sure, that's a great use of Destructive Wave for DPR, especially if you average for their chances to resist, but you should be getting 6-9 uses of Channel Divinity, you don't have that many slots and not enough to max cast and use other 6th-9th level spells. Not so weak at all.



Of course, it might be fun.
It is fun and thematic, but it's also perfectly viable DPR, contrary to your point.

[Finieous]

If you absolutely need a road map from level 1 to 20, start Vuman, get a feat for BB, start with 16 Str and 16 Wis with point buy. By level 20 you can have 2 20s in stats or a 20, 18, and Resilient. You don't need Warcaster. It's not hard.


Don't tell me "at level 20." You start with Magic Initiate (presumably) for booming blade. Okay, that's a tradeoff -- you're never even going to get a damage boost from it until 5th level, and you don't have Resilient (Con) for those crucial concentration saves on bless. At 4th level, you get Resilient (Con) -- it's almost a must-have with spirit guardians coming at 5th level. Now at 8th level, maybe you increase your Wisdom? Your attack stat is still at 16 going into Tier 3. Your hit points are mediocre, but you still need to stand in against Tier 3 monsters to make your one melee attack per turn. You say you don't need Warcaster, which presumably means you (1) have a DM that doesn't care about somatic components, (2) will let you juggle your weapon and shield around to cast spells or melee as required, and (3) don't face high-CR monsters with damage output for which you really do need both Resilient and Warcaster if you're going to be standing in melee to get off your one attack/turn.

So, okay, at 12th level you don't take Warcaster or increase your casting stat -- you take +2 Str instead? Or is your melee attack stat falling even further behind, and if so, why did you put those resources into it in the first place? Your hit points are falling even further behind the curve against the kinds of monsters you're fighting*, but you still need to be up front to cast your booming blade. To be topical, you're fighting multiple CR 9 fire giants with 162 hp, each making two attacks for 28 average damage. Get on up there so you can get off your 50 damage attack three times per rest! Here, have a CR 11 remorhaz with 195 hp who will do 3d6 fire damage back at you when you hit it and then bite you for 40!

* Actually, even the real melee fighters' hit points are falling behind the curve; that's why -- in a real fight -- they need casters to use their precious actions buffing, debuffing and healing to keep them in the fight. Not wading into melee to cast booming blade. Even better, your group realizes melee is for suckers and is only to be used as a last resort by anybody, and the whole party emphasizes stealth, mobility, control and range to defeat opponents. Either way, in my experience, putting your clerics in melee isn't a great strategy beyond Tier 1.



For Call Lightning to do 50 damage, it needs to do 10d10 damage if resisted.


Call lightning deals 3d10 (save for half) in a limited AoE every round for 100 rounds from 120 feet away. Against Large or smaller opponents, it will also hurl them 10 feet away from you. Against giants...well, hopefully the real melee fighters keep them from chucking rocks at you, but even if they don't, at least the attacks will be at disadvantage for range, depending on the environment. Throw in a sacred flame every round for some extra damage on top of that, or maybe a heal for your poor melee specialists who are taking the brunt of the damage.

In summary, clerics are spellcasters. :smallsmile:

[Saggo]

Even better, your group realizes melee is for suckers and is only to be used as a last resort by anybody,
This is more telling than anything.

At any rate, the numbers work for making a Booming Blade build with viable single target DPR.



Call lightning deals 3d10 (save for half) in a limited AoE every round for 100 rounds from 120 feet away.
You can't Channel Divinity then entire duration. You'll only do it once or twice. Better hope they don't resist.

[Finieous]

This is more telling than anything.


Well, it is, right? It's the way the monsters are designed. Monster attacks scale just fine against character AC and hit points. The vast majority of monsters can't compete with Tier 3 and 4 PCs in terms of mobility, control and range. You're playing to the monsters' strength when you go toe-to-toe with them.



You can't Channel Divinity then entire duration. You'll only do it once or twice. Better hope they don't resist.


I don't need to Channel Divinity the entire duration. If my spellcasting save DC is high (because I haven't tried to build a melee fighter on a spellcaster chassis) and I pick the right spell for the right opponent, they're going to fail more often than not. And even if they don't, my multiple targets still take half of my maximized damage and I'm still 120 feet away from the killers.

[Saggo]

Well, it is, right? It's the way the monsters are designed. Monster attacks scale just fine against character AC and hit points. The vast majority of monsters can't compete with Tier 3 and 4 PCs in terms of mobility, control and range. You're playing to the monsters' strength when you go toe-to-toe with them.


No, it just makes sense that you'd be completely closed to melee Cleric if you believe all melee is for suckers. I don't feel like debating metagame balance, though.

The simple matter here is that if a melee Tempest is no more difficult or complex to build then Paladins, Rangers, Monks, War Clerics, Bladelocks, Arcane Trickster, some Eldritch Knights, etc, etc, etc, then a melee Tempest isn't too hard to build for. The considerations are effectively 1 for 1, Tempest to another.



I don't need to Channel Divinity the entire duration. If my spellcasting save DC is high (because I haven't tried to build a melee fighter on a spellcaster chassis) and I pick the right spell for the right opponent, they're going to fail more often than not. And even if they don't, my multiple targets still take half of my maximized damage and I'm still 120 feet away from the killers.
You'll still need to upscale a spell fairly high to net the same average damage of a Destructive Wrath Booming Blade. Upscaled Spiritual Weapon/Guardians with BB will be the same and potentially better average single target DPR for better daily resource cost.

Incidentally, Tempest Cleric can get away with an average DC more than other Clerics because of Destructive Wrath. Means even a melee Tempest is as comparatively effective at AoE damage as a pure caster cleric. All in all, the point is it's still a viable alternative.

[RemyWonderland]

So what's everyone's favorite Cleric build? I want to play all the Domains. Cleric has always been my favorite class.

[Mandragola]

In summary, clerics are spellcasters. :smallsmile:

This cannot be emphasised enough. Clerics are there to cast spells, not to bash things. Fighters, barbarians and the like are there to bash things. Want a guy who bashes things and occasionally casts divine spells? Check out the paladin. Paladins get to deal massive melee damage without ending up MAD, waiting for lvl 20 for their build to work or any such nonsense.

Clerics can hurt things - a lot. They do it with spells like call lightning and destructive wave. Their heavy armour proficiency is certainly nice but the martial weapon thing is kind of just flavour after low level. Clerics also cast heal - if they haven't MCd and delayed it of course.

I'm thinking of making a tempest cleric myself. I've got two options I'm looking at, depending on what one of the other players brings. It's either a wood elf far traveller who worships Aerdrie Faenya (who could be stealthy and use a bow as well as being reasonably sturdy when needed) or a vuman sailor follower of talos/umberlee. I think the latter character might not actually be evil, more CN. He considers himself blessed by his god after being spared in a shipwreck.

The elf would have 16 dex and wis, 14 con and a few more points spread around. The vuman would get 16s in str, con and wis by taking a feat that added +1 to something - most likely resilient: con.


I'm a pretty big fan of Hill Dwarf for a tempest cleric though. Just the whole aesthetic of dwarves, and gods, and hammers and lightning.

Me too. It's very annoying, and quite weird in my opinion, that there's no dwarf god with the tempest domain. I was wondering if I could make it work with Marthammor Duin.

[Saggo]

Want a guy who bashes things and occasionally casts divine spells? Check out the paladin.
There's a place for someone that casts divine spells and occasionally bashes things. That's what a Tempest with Booming does.

[CantigThimble]

There's a place for someone that casts divine spells and occasionally bashes things. That's what a Tempest with Booming does.

The question is whether it is worth giving up or delaying one of your 4 essential spellcaster ASIs (Warcaster, Resilient Con, +4 Wis) to get a couple extra D8s of face bashing bashing. I'd say probably not.

[Saggo]

The question is whether it is worth giving up or delaying one of your 4 essential spellcaster ASIs (Warcaster, Resilient Con, +4 Wis) to get a couple extra D8s of face bashing bashing. I'd say probably not.

There are lots of ways to get a the cantrip, including Variant Human, High Elf, or a dip like Sorcerer (decent goodies there). Even if you do use and ASI to get it, you can easily do without either Warcaster or Resilient.

[CantigThimble]

There are lots of ways to get a the cantrip, including Variant Human, High Elf, or a dip like Sorcerer (decent goodies there). Even if you do use and ASI to get it, you can easily do without either Warcaster or Resilient.

Warcaster and resilient are both pretty essential if you're going to be on the front lines with spirit guardians. Plus it's hard to justify spending resources on improving your melee damage when it's unlikely you'll ever buff your strength above 16. I'm not saying it's completely unviable but I think a build that focuses on spellcasting is going to be overall stronger than one that cuts into their spellcasting to get a bit more melee damage.

[Saggo]

Warcaster and resilient are both pretty essential if you're going to be on the front lines with spirit guardians. Plus it's hard to justify spending resources on improving your melee damage when it's unlikely you'll ever buff your strength above 16. I'm not saying it's completely unviable but I think a build that focuses on spellcasting is going to be overall stronger than one that cuts into their spellcasting to get a bit more melee damage.

Using your ASI is just one way to get Booming Blade. If, for instance, you start Sorcerer, you get the cantrip, goodies like Shield, and Con proficiency naturally. Though, even as a pure cleric, either Warcaster or Resilient is enough to beat a Concentration check (if they do enough damage to bump you out of DC10, there are other things to worry about). I would go with Warcaster for the effective +4-5 from advantage at every level vs a starting +2 only from Resilient. Targets also won't likely want to hit you often when they see Wrath of the Storm. You can't plan for that, of course, but it's a consideration.

Even if they ignore Wrath of the Storm, and even considering a lower chance at passing Concentration (because it is, of course), you can still save more high level slots recasting a concentration a bit more often while saving Channel Divinity for Booming Blade, or you just keep the save slots and don't recast depending on the flow of battle. All in all, as I said, it's a viable alternative.

[Ruslan]

Most optimal seems to go Variant Human, Str 16, Wis 14 to start with, and Polearm Master for your feat.
Having plenty of uses for your action, bonus action, and reaction, you can effectively drown your enemies in action economy.

[Rysto]

Is PAM really that good on a Cleric? They already have Spiritual Weapon for their bonus action.

[Ruslan]

Is PAM really that good on a Cleric? They already have Spiritual Weapon for their bonus action.

Depending how many encounters per day you're expected to experience. Assuming your DM throws the recommended six encounters per day at you, Spiritual Weapon in every fight will run up the ol' spell slots quickly. If you only have 2-3 fights per day, by all means, use the spell instead.

[Finieous]

Depending how many encounters per day you're expected to experience. Assuming your DM throws the recommended six encounters per day at you, Spiritual Weapon in every fight will run up the ol' spell slots quickly. If you only have 2-3 fights per day, by all means, use the spell instead.

Thing is, if the DM is following the recommended encounters per day, it's not important for the cleric to have a bonus action attack in all six to eight of those encounters. Some of them are just easy/medium resource burners. Spiritual weapon will give you your bonus action attack when you actually need one.