How do you play lawful good with these stats and race? What kind of backstory?

[Zhentarim]

Pitborn Tiefling Dual-Cursed Lunar Oracle (Wolfscarred face/Deaf)
18 str
12 dex
14 con
5 int 9 int
12 wis
18 cha 16 cha

--Claws alternate racial feat


Feat: Armor of the Pit
Skillpoint: Linguistics -- to read lips
Woships Gozreh
Grizzly Bear animal companion.

[Extra Anchovies]

Lawful - Principled - your character holds to a particular set of rules
Good - Altruism - your character places others above the self

With a very low Intelligence and just-above-average Wisdom, you would probably not have spent much time pondering why you hold to those alignments. Perhaps you were taught at a young age that principled altruism was best by someone you respected and looked up to (parent, mentor, religious leader, etc), and accepted those teachings at face value because of the trust you placed in them. Your 18 Charisma means you're also probably good at convincing others to take the same advice that you did.

Given that you're LG, it's likely that you were raised in a community where Tieflings were not feared or hated.

One possible issue is that Gozreh is true neutral, which puts you two alignment steps away from them. You're not a cleric, so it's rules-kosher, but there's probably going to be more than a few conflicts between your personal ideology and that of your religion. Gozreh is also not a moon-related god, so your powers most likely have a source other than your deity of choice.

Improved Natural Attack requires BAB +4.

[Big Fau]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1901085/images/o-FORREST-GUMP-facebook.jpg

[Zhentarim]

Lawful - Principled - your character holds to a particular set of rules
Good - Altruism - your character places others above the self

With a very low Intelligence and just-above-average Wisdom, you would probably not have spent much time pondering why you hold to those alignments. Perhaps you were taught at a young age that principled altruism was best by someone you respected and looked up to (parent, mentor, religious leader, etc), and accepted those teachings at face value because of the trust you placed in them. Your 18 Charisma means you're also probably good at convincing others to take the same advice that you did.

Given that you're LG, it's likely that you were raised in a community where Tieflings were not feared or hated.

One possible issue is that Gozreh is true neutral, which puts you two alignment steps away from them. You're not a cleric, so it's rules-kosher, but there's probably going to be more than a few conflicts between your personal ideology and that of your religion. Gozreh is also not a moon-related god, so your powers most likely have a source other than your deity of choice.

Improved Natural Attack requires BAB +4.

Now, would Desna and NG be a better choice?

[Zanos]

The average troll is smarter than your character. He has the same intelligence score as a griffon. An intelligence that poor in a normally sentient race would indicate a severe mental handicap. I would honestly be surprised if he spoke in complete sentences, and probably couldn't put 2 and 2 together in a literal or figurative sense.

[hamishspence]

The average troll is smarter than your character. He has the same intelligence score as a griffon. An intelligence that poor in a normally sentient race would indicate a severe mental handicap. I would honestly be surprised if he spoke in complete sentences, and probably couldn't put 2 and 2 together in a literal or figurative sense.

That's more INT 3 - going by Dragon Magazine's Sage Advice column:

issue 322: August 2004.


I’d like to know just how intelligent a human character with an Intelligence score of 3 is. What is the character’s approximate IQ? Is the character considered mentally handicapped or just slow? Can he carry a normal conversation or does he have problems speaking?

A character with an Intelligence score of 3 is smarter than most animals, but only barely. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can understand at least one language (see page 7 in the Monster Manual). A human with an Intelligence score of 3 can speak Common but doesn’t have a good vocabulary (perhaps a few hundred one- and two-syllable words), and the character doesn’t have a good grasp of syntax and grammar. The character speaks and understands only simple subject-verb sentences and probably has problems with things such as past and future tense.

Intelligence also affects memory and reasoning, so the example character doesn’t have much of a head for facts, and the character is not very good at arithmetic.

Ten points of IQ per point of Intelligence is a good rule of thumb, so your example character has an IQ of about 30. How others perceive and treat the example character depends on social conditions in the campaign. Most cultures in a D&D world are pretty tolerant—they have to be just so they can get along in a place that contains the wide variety of creatures that inhabit most D&D worlds. In such cultures, terms such as “dull” and “slow” probably don’t get much use, at least in respect to a person’s mental capacity. When your own Intelligence is about average (10) you’re “slow” compared to a dragon, beholder, mind flayer, or other creature that might live right next door or lurk beyond the next valley. Still, elitism and a sense of superiority can exist just about anywhere.

It is a good bet, however, that the example characters’ associates, relatives, and neighbors know the character’s mental limitations, and that they adjust their expectations for that character accordingly.

And I've seen it argued that going by standard deviation combined with real IQ tests, Int 3 should be closer to IQ 65:


That's not complicated. They're both bell curves (within the limits of both systems), and the standard deviation is 15 on IQ and roughly 3 on 3d6.

Ergo, 5 IQ ~= 1 Int.
Mean on 3d6 is exactly 10.5.
Mean IQ is supposed to be 100, but on actual tests it actually averages higher than that.

So treating IQ = 5*Int + 50 is about as good as you can do. And it's simple.

Int 3 ~= IQ 65, and is still quite functional in the real world.



DougL

So Int 5 is quite a bit higher than that, even if it's not "average".

Indeed, according to The Giant, even Int 3 isn't necessarily handicapped:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?322562-OotS-and-the-Mentally-Handicapped/page2&p=16701195#post16701195


In D&D terms, anyone who has an Intelligence of 3 or higher is capable of determining right from wrong (because they have an alignment); speak, read, and write a language fluently; and generally looking after themselves on a daily basis while adventuring in a dangerous dungeon. This does not describe most real-world people with mental handicaps (to my knowledge). Which means the bulk of the spectrum of mental handicaps probably sits somewhere below 3 and above 2, because it's a system designed for action-adventure and it doesn't need more granularity than that. It doesn't want to have the conversation, and honestly, in this case, I'm inclined to agree. D&D is a system that only describes people within a certain range of mental ability, and OOTS follows suit.

[Zhentarim]

That's more INT 3 - going by Dragon Magazine's Sage Advice column:

issue 322: August 2004.



And I've seen it argued that going by standard deviation combined with real IQ tests, Int 3 should be closer to IQ 65:



So Int 5 is quite a bit higher than that, even if it's not "average".

Indeed, according to The Giant, even Int 3 isn't necessarily handicapped:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?322562-OotS-and-the-Mentally-Handicapped/page2&p=16701195#post16701195
The pathfinder ability scores page puts 5 at having to constantly pantomime.

[hamishspence]

Sometimes, not constantly:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligence-Int-

and Int 3 is a bit higher than animal, as The Giant's quote explained.

[Zanos]

-intelligent stuff-
Those are all fair arguments, but in my opinion the best way to approximate a creatures intelligence is by looking at the typical behaviors of creatures in canon that have those ability scores. Standard deviations based on generation might be a fair mathematical approximation, but would indicate that something like int 6 would have an IQ of 80, and the iconic depictions of int 6 creatures, trolls and ogres, function at a much lower level than I would expect from an IQ of 80.

To calibrate with the rest of the game world, here are some creatures that an int 5 character would be as smart as, or stupider than:
An average ogre(int 6)
An average troll(int 6)
An orc that's stupid by orc standards(int 6)
A hellhound(int 6)
A hill giant(int 6)

A griffon(int 5)
An otyugh(int 5)
A remmorhaz(int 5)

Intelligence this low is generally reserved either for magical beasts that are a somewhat brighter than just their instincts, and races that are depicted as nearly comically fantasy stupid, as the Giant calls it. I actually couldn't find any printed humanoid races with an int of 5. So I will correct myself. While the character may be capable of caring for themselves and not have a medical mental disability, they are nonetheless exceptionally stupid for the company of normal races.

[Zhentarim]

(sign language because deaf)
"Me momma said demons bad!"

[TheFurith]

5 int

You make him the friend of a group of LG people who took pity on him and he just goes with what they want to do.

Backstory? Kicked in the head by a mule. A big mule....

Honestly I'm not sure the character would understand the concept. Though from the way I've seen LG played from time to time that might not be a problem....

[The Extinguisher]

By being both Lawful and Good? Make decisions that show a respect for order and systems while also being altruistic and selfless. Your characters attributes don't effect their outlook on life or their morality. There's no reason to suggest that a character who is not as smart as an average character is incapable of being good.

But honestly, if this:


(sign language because deaf)
"Me momma said demons bad!"

is how you're going to play a deaf character with a low intelligence, I'd suggest maybe finding a different build that you can play respectfully.

[Zhentarim]

By being both Lawful and Good? Make decisions that show a respect for order and systems while also being altruistic and selfless. Your characters attributes don't effect their outlook on life or their morality. There's no reason to suggest that a character who is not as smart as an average character is incapable of being good.

But honestly, if this:



is how you're going to play a deaf character with a low intelligence, I'd suggest maybe finding a different build that you can play respectfully.

Yeah...I have trouble playing below 12 INT, as a rule, since my inclination has been to soak up information like a sponge. I tend to equate respectfulness to a degree with intelligence and/or wisdom, and having either low will mean rudeness.

[Seto]

Yeah...I have trouble playing below 12 INT, as a rule, since my inclination has been to soak up information like a sponge. I tend to equate respectfulness to a degree with intelligence and/or wisdom, and having either low will mean rudeness.
I think the Extinguisher was talking about you being respectful towards deaf people with low intelligence, rather than your character being respectful towards NPCs.

But in response to your original question, your character would certainly be someone with very strongly ingrained principles, pretty good insight about when and how they could apply, but much difficulty (and maybe little interest) in justifying them verbally. They would probably not fathom other worldviews - they would change people rather than be changed by them. Since they have high CHA, they'd be the kind of person, maybe a little gruff, maybe simply a person of few words, that leads by example and not by speech. Luckily, all of these traits work beautifully with a deaf character.

[Zhentarim]

I think the Extinguisher was talking about you being respectful towards deaf people with low intelligence, rather than your character being respectful towards NPCs.

But in response to your original question, your character would certainly be someone with very strongly ingrained principles, pretty good insight about when and how they could apply, but much difficulty (and maybe little interest) in justifying them verbally. They would probably not fathom other worldviews - they would change people rather than be changed by them. Since they have high CHA, they'd be the kind of person, maybe a little gruff, maybe simply a person of few words, that leads by example and not by speech. Luckily, all of these traits work beautifully with a deaf character.

I like that better than having to write down grammatically incorrect phrases. An idea I had that may be more respectful would be to carry a chalkboard and just write down simple, 1-2 word answers, and just not talking much. The only way I've known how to play a talkative person with very, very low intelligence is a blathering idiot. That said, I'm going to take your suggestion, but bump INT up to 9, so they are only a little slow.

[hamishspence]

Those are all fair arguments, but in my opinion the best way to approximate a creatures intelligence is by looking at the typical behaviors of creatures in canon that have those ability scores. Standard deviations based on generation might be a fair mathematical approximation, but would indicate that something like int 6 would have an IQ of 80, and the iconic depictions of int 6 creatures, trolls and ogres, function at a much lower level than I would expect from an IQ of 80.

To calibrate with the rest of the game world, here are some creatures that an int 5 character would be as smart as, or stupider than:
An average ogre(int 6)
An average troll(int 6)
An orc that's stupid by orc standards(int 6)
A hellhound(int 6)
A hill giant(int 6)

A griffon(int 5)
An otyugh(int 5)
A remmorhaz(int 5)

Intelligence this low is generally reserved either for magical beasts that are a somewhat brighter than just their instincts, and races that are depicted as nearly comically fantasy stupid, as the Giant calls it.


A possible counter to the standard deviation method - the existence of Arrays. If the vast majority of NPCs use the nonelite array or the elite array rather than rolling randomly, then stats that require random rolls, become much rarer.