More Tools and more uses for Tools

[dropbear8mybaby]

Tools tend to be mostly useless, other than a few notable exceptions. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of ways to make the duds more appealing, or to think of more tools that could be added that are somewhat equal in value to Thieves' Tools, or Poisoner's Kit, etc. Any suggestions? Have you done anything to increase the use and visibility of tools or just forgotten about most of them?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Tools tend to be mostly useless, other than a few notable exceptions. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of ways to make the duds more appealing, or to think of more tools that could be added that are somewhat equal in value to Thieves' Tools, or Poisoner's Kit, etc. Any suggestions? Have you done anything to increase the use and visibility of tools or just forgotten about most of them?

I don't know if this is what you're looking for (or if you've seen it already), but my Advanced Crafting Rules (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hss8hp08v4dvrh2/Advanced%20Crafting%20Rules%202.pdf?dl=0) includes some thoughts about tool use, including additional & futuristic tools, feats, prestige classes, etc.

The alchemy/brewing/cooking/herbalism part is still in the works, coming together slowly. Those four toolkits are probably the most useful for adventurers, so I figured they deserved their own booklet.

[dropbear8mybaby]

Thanks, that's a lot to get through so I'll have to get back to you about it at a later date :)

[tkuremento]

One of the Unearthed Arcana added some feats, and a few of them are tool related.

https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/UA-Feats-V1.pdf

I personally like Gourmand, food is a passion of mine and often leaks into my characters. I imagine something not too dissimilar could be applied to the brewer's supplies, perhaps related to temp HP because of the buzz. Of course then you have to figure out why your human monk is making stronger beer than a dwarf :P

[dropbear8mybaby]

One of the Unearthed Arcana added some feats, and a few of them are tool related.

https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/UA-Feats-V1.pdf

I personally like Gourmand, food is a passion of mine and often leaks into my characters. I imagine something not too dissimilar could be applied to the brewer's supplies, perhaps related to temp HP because of the buzz. Of course then you have to figure out why your human monk is making stronger beer than a dwarf :P

You know, I'd completely forgotten about that, thanks!

[hymer]

I've added Miner's Tools in my current campaign, and dwarves can choose it as their racial prof. It gives proficiency in some situations that adventurer's find themselves in, dealing with caves and excavation.

[BW022]

Tools tend to be mostly useless, other than a few notable exceptions. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of ways to make the duds more appealing, or to think of more tools that could be added that are somewhat equal in value to Thieves' Tools, or Poisoner's Kit, etc. Any suggestions? Have you done anything to increase the use and visibility of tools or just forgotten about most of them?

Well... not everything in D&D can or should be of equal value. Characters are adventurers and typically don't have the time or location to be crafting things, nor are things such as weaving, brewing, etc. of that much use to people who make their living facing dangers and killing monsters. Start by realising that they don't have to be equal in value. That said.

Knowledge Knowing a trade means knowledge in that trade. You know the materials, construction methods, history, value, etc. DMs should allow Tool (Intelligence) rolls for all sort of things. Players should ask. "Ok... I'm a weaver. I examine the bandit cloaks. Do I have any idea where were they made?"

Appraisal Appraising goods often means not passing over items (sometimes even magical items).

Contacts You likely know others within your trade, which cities practice it, how to best approach others, etc.

Trade You likely deal with such things and buy and sell such goods. Maybe you don't have the guild background, but you have some idea who buys cloth, what types of beer as sold, etc.

Disguises Tradesmen often make good disguises, covers, or ways into certain places. Tradesmen often have freer movement and access to castles, cities, cross borders, etc. They may be immune to certain attacks. It makes a good story... arrive in a cart with barrels of ale, talk about some brew master in town, and it might be easier to get past guards or gather information.

Repairs and Maintenance For those without a mending spell, sometimes useful. Most DMs don't worry about it, but if you are repeatedly hit... chances are your cloak, armor, etc. needs repairing.

Research Characters with tools should be better at researching certain things. If you don't know where the cloth was make... you should know at least know who might know -- other weavers? Maybe you can find out something about a cloak to suggest what it might be... or even its command word.

Roleplaying Sure. Have an interest in painting people you have met. Maybe you cook for the party and come up with unique menus.

Direct Usages. There are some tools which can have direct usage. Disguise kit, forgery kit, navigation tools, vehicles, herbalism kits, etc. tend to have more direct uses for adventurers.

For players... try using it as a roleplaying tool and ask questions on it.

For DMs... keep your world varied. Let players think out of the box and don't penalize them for it. If a weaver asks about the origins of the bandits cloaks... may that (plus some research) might be enough to track them to their city vs. some preplanned encounters which get you there. In the extreme cases... maybe you plan an adventure path around someone background or specific tools.

[mgshamster]

I view tools as an extra area of knowledge with some practical applications.

Have a tool proficiency in mason's tools? That means you also can talk shop with anyone else who has that proficiency, which opens up opportunities in social situations. For example, you can get in close with the mason's guild or a local worker. Maybe gain back entrance to a castle or dungeon because of it.

Each of the tools provides an opportunity for such.

As a real example in game, I have a character with proficiency in row boats and watercraft. In an adventure where we had to use a ferry to take us across the bay to a lighthouse, my character chatted up the ferryman about the ferry and the waters and his job in general. That roleplaying set it up so he took a liking to us and offered us free fare for the ride back.

Sure, some people may say that anyone can do that. But having a proficiency in the tool gives a de facto reason why your character would have and interest in the subject and have some detailed knowledge on it. It allows you to talk shop.

[dropbear8mybaby]

Start by realising that they don't have to be equal in value.
My issue with that is players generally don't choose those other ones. If it has no value in a system where you can get exceptional value from other choices, then there's not really any choice involved at all. I want players to be able to say they have chosen a tool proficiency for story/RP reasons and not be penalised (by lack of utility) for that choice.


That said.

Cool, those were all things I genuinely hadn't considered, thanks. That gives me more than a few ideas of how to bring these things up in play and encourage players to take those tools without feeling like they're missing out.

[Saeviomage]

Make them more like the 2e professions, where it's up to you to justify how your profession can be applied as others have said. I should be able to apply my forgery kit proficiency to try to find out where the inks for a painting were sourced, or to know information about the artist, or to value a painting or document etc. I should be able to use my proficiency in dice or cards to handle probability calculations, risk analysis and to tell when someone is bluffing.

The hardest one I think is musical instruments: I think your best bet is to break down the methods needed to construct your particular instrument and add in a camaraderie between musicians, but that's pretty weak.

[mgshamster]

The hardest one I think is musical instruments: I think your best bet is to break down the methods needed to construct your particular instrument and add in a camaraderie between musicians, but that's pretty weak.

That makes me want to run some adventures based around forged instruments.

I also once ran a game that incorporated a lot of meta analysis. The puzzles in the game were things that my *players* had to solve, not their characters. Of my three players, one is a musician and another in a heavy metal fan, so I set up puzzles based on music and riddles based on metal lyrics from groups that the particular player was a fan of. I also once ran a game where each leg of the adventure was themed around a Megadeth song. :)

[tkuremento]

That makes me want to run some adventures based around forged instruments.

Halfling Bard with a Panjo! Performing Chef Extraordinaire! Make a meal and a show at the same time, pick up on cues to see if the opponents are hungry and offer them a meal instead of fighting and play a pleasing tune whilst they eat. If they don't? Go all El Kabong on them, hurts more cause metal panjo :P

[Saeviomage]

That makes me want to run some adventures based around forged instruments.

Well, sure, if you happen to find a magical instrument that matches the one you chose, hooray! But that's pretty weak. You could just as well find magic masonry tools, but you then still have all the tangential benefits I described for masonry tools.


I also once ran a game that incorporated a lot of meta analysis. The puzzles in the game were things that my *players* had to solve, not their characters. Of my three players, one is a musician and another in a heavy metal fan, so I set up puzzles based on music and riddles based on metal lyrics from groups that the particular player was a fan of. I also once ran a game where each leg of the adventure was themed around a Megadeth song. :)
Right, but that sort of thing doesn't work so well when you do it without the meta.

[mgshamster]

Well, sure, if you happen to find a magical instrument that matches the one you chose, hooray! But that's pretty weak. You could just as well find magic masonry tools, but you then still have all the tangential benefits I described for masonry tools.

Right, but that sort of thing doesn't work so well when you do it without the meta.

Why does it have to be magical? A game based around finding the real Stradivarius can be rather interesting in its own right. It's about setting the atmosphere.

Or if you want it to be magical, a game about rescuing the golden harp (http://img10.deviantart.net/c9bd/i/2008/072/9/8/the_golden_harp_by_lauradollie.jpg), where she's a sentient artifact can be just as fun. Proficiency in playing the harp could unlock magical capabilities in the artifact that you otherwise wouldn't be able to use.

Or a game around a horn of blasting being used to destroy castle walls so the army can siege their enemies, and you have to be proficient in it to use it properly.

There are lots of ideas around music that can be used for adventure.

[Saeviomage]

Why does it have to be magical? A game based around finding the real Stradivarius can be rather interesting in its own right. It's about setting the atmosphere.

Yeah, but even with this focus, I'm not seeing the instrument (violin) proficiency being all that relevant unless the entire adventure can be short-circuited by noticing that the real one was in plain sight all along.


Or if you want it to be magical, a game about rescuing the golden harp (http://img10.deviantart.net/c9bd/i/2008/072/9/8/the_golden_harp_by_lauradollie.jpg), where she's a sentient artifact can be just as fun. Proficiency in playing the harp could unlock magical capabilities in the artifact that you otherwise wouldn't be able to use.

Or a game around a horn of blasting being used to destroy castle walls so the army can siege their enemies, and you have to be proficient in it to use it properly.

There are lots of ideas around music that can be used for adventure.

Right... but it's basically constructing an adventure for a specific proficiency, which you could arguably do for any proficiency. The fact that it's almost required for the instrument proficiency is a mark against, not for it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The hardest one I think is musical instruments: I think your best bet is to break down the methods needed to construct your particular instrument and add in a camaraderie between musicians, but that's pretty weak.
Ugh, instruments. It's like they forgot that the Perform skill exists, or vice-versa. You'd be best off eliminating one or the other, I think.

[Naanomi]

I added 'merchant tools' to cover scales, abacus, tools to grade metals gems; as a pseudo 'appraise+mathematics' for what it is worth

[StarStuff]

Tools tend to be mostly useless, other than a few notable exceptions. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of ways to make the duds more appealing, or to think of more tools that could be added that are somewhat equal in value to Thieves' Tools, or Poisoner's Kit, etc. Any suggestions? Have you done anything to increase the use and visibility of tools or just forgotten about most of them?

You can use Fabricate, a 4th level spell, in conjuction with whatever tools you're proficient with.

My DM allowed me to make Plate Armor Barding with 2 castings of Fabricate. I haven't expressed an interest in selling anything I've made. That would be game breaking.

The awesomeness of Tools and Fabricate cannot be understated. You see that portrait of Straud above his mantle. Now it's a portrait of you and your homies.

You that dead pile of ashes that used to be Straud? Now it's pewter miniature. Throw a few me at me. I don't have the book where I'm at.

If you're referring to the tools sans proficiency, I don't know. They've never come up in the loot piles of my games.

[Naanomi]

Fabricate is lots of fun; alchemist tools = massive pools of acid or alchemists fire... herbalist tools = quick-brew healing potions... tinkers tools = instant setup dungeon-style death traps... cartographers tools = perfect map of the dungeon you just explored in exquisite detail