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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Would you consider this an effective AC list?



dropbear8mybaby
2016-09-18, 09:22 AM
EDIT: Sorry, I should've clarified. I'm mainly interested in the historical accuracy of ranking the armours based on their protective value. In other words, is it accurate to say that a gambeson is less protective than hauberk, a hauberk less than scale armour, etc. and the same with the shields. When it comes to system balance, that's something I'm working on separately and isn't what I'm after feedback about. I probably should've made that clearer but I was tired when I posted this.

Looking to try and revamp a few things in a homebrewed alt-5e system and was going over the armour ratings/system and thought, "This sucks," so I started working on my own version. Ignore the Encumbrance thing, that's a side-system I'm trying to figure out as well.


Armour Type Armour Bonus Stealth Encumbrance

Light

Gambeson +1 AC 3

Medium

Hauberk +2 AC 5
Scale Armour +3 AC Disadvantage 6
Brigandine +4 AC Disadvantage 7

Heavy

Cuirass +5 AC Disadvantage 8
Plate Mail +6 AC Impossible* 9

Shields

Buckler +1 AC 3
Round +2 AC 4
Heater +3 AC 5
Kite +4 AC Disadvantage 6
Pavise +5 AC Impossible** 7

*Wearer can attempt a Stealth check only when armour is magically silenced.
**Bearer can attempt a Stealth check only when they are invisible.

Amnoriath
2016-09-18, 10:08 AM
No, because it breaks bounded accuracy rules and it incentivizes lots of MAD. Here a Dex. based sword and board has an AC of 26 without magical items, even if your Encumbrance rules take in Strength enter the Dwarf. Conversely a Strength based character is only 20. An Ancient Red Dragon only has 22 and it is a CR 24 monster. Also your asterisk quotes don't make sense as it seems to suggest that disadvantage on applies when beneficial magic towards stealth is used on them.

Laurefindel
2016-09-18, 11:27 AM
Lower armor/higher shield is not necessarily a bad thing if you want to go more historical. That is the way Adventure in Middle Earth went. But unless there are some serious limitation on shields, shield-based fighting styles will clearly be superior.

Will shield restrict DEX bonus to AC like armor does? Can i play a 20 DEX fighter with gambeson and pavise for 21 AC? Why would I take any shield but the pavise?

If i may ask, what do you see wrong with the present armor list?

dropbear8mybaby
2016-09-18, 05:55 PM
If i may ask, what do you see wrong with the present armor list?

Most of the armours either never existed or are repeats of the same armour concept, and aren't paired with shields (I consider shields to be highly underrated in 5e).

i.e. I just don't like it.

dropbear8mybaby
2016-09-18, 06:00 PM
No, because it breaks bounded accuracy rules and it incentivizes lots of MAD. Here a Dex. based sword and board has an AC of 26 without magical items, even if your Encumbrance rules take in Strength enter the Dwarf. Conversely a Strength based character is only 20. An Ancient Red Dragon only has 22 and it is a CR 24 monster. Also your asterisk quotes don't make sense as it seems to suggest that disadvantage on applies when beneficial magic towards stealth is used on them.

Sorry, yeah, was tired and not really clear on the intent behind my reason for posting.

Balance/bounded accuracy, etc. aren't issues I'm concerned with because this is for a homebrew system where those fundamental elements work differently. So it's not a consideration here. See my EDIT in the OP.

And yeah, you're right about the asterix, I didn't clarify properly. Those items deny the ability to use Stealth AT ALL without being silenced (in the case of plate mail) or invisible (in the case of the pavise). Plate mail is simply too noisy to allow even the most skilled, even with disadvantage, to be stealthy. It's like saying a person has a coat of bells on and yet moves so silently that they don't alert anyone nearby. The pavise is so large, heavy and cumbersome that there's simply no way you could move around stealthily with it unless you (and by you wielding it, it) were invisible. You're essentially lifting and moving a wall that has a purpose built strut to hold it up while you fight (usually with a crossbow) behind it.

Amnoriath
2016-09-18, 06:38 PM
Sorry, yeah, was tired and not really clear on the intent behind my reason for posting.

Balance/bounded accuracy, etc. aren't issues I'm concerned with because this is for a homebrew system where those fundamental elements work differently. So it's not a consideration here. See my EDIT in the OP.

And yeah, you're right about the asterix, I didn't clarify properly. Those items deny the ability to use Stealth AT ALL without being silenced (in the case of plate mail) or invisible (in the case of the pavise). Plate mail is simply too noisy to allow even the most skilled, even with disadvantage, to be stealthy. It's like saying a person has a coat of bells on and yet moves so silently that they don't alert anyone nearby. The pavise is so large, heavy and cumbersome that there's simply no way you could move around stealthily with it unless you (and by you wielding it, it) were invisible. You're essentially lifting and moving a wall that has a purpose built strut to hold it up while you fight (usually with a crossbow) behind it.

1. While that may be the case the issues still stand as a case of balance. Bounded Accuracy is important for 5e as this allows for d20 rolls to numerically have a large play in the outcome making advantage and disadvantage more appealing than just numbers even if you are okay with adding more numbers math wise. It also allows for a more diverse set of enemies, hazards, and challenges to remain relevant even against high level parties. You still haven't addressed how is a Strength based sword board is even suppose to contend with a Dexterity based one.
2. I understand what sets of armor and shields you are talking about. I figured it was a mistake of omission but the problem with your current set is that it clearly favors certain stats right from the get go. The beauty of the current armor system is that certain armors overrule any negative AC from Dexterity making Strength based builds decent in battle stats while Dexterity based more utility oriented. I don't know all the changes you have in mind but I don't think you know how many would be needed just so there is some balance between builds and enemies are challenging.

Amnoriath
2016-09-18, 06:41 PM
Most of the armours either never existed or are repeats of the same armour concept, and aren't paired with shields (I consider shields to be highly underrated in 5e).

i.e. I just don't like it.

While shields could definitely use diversity sword and board builds in 5e are often highly effective due to Duelist's wording, Protection's useful crowd defense, and Shield Master's broad array of abilities. I wouldn't consider it underrated at all.