Detect Thin Sheets of Lead

[P.F.]

What it says on the tin. Paladin wants a way to learn if his detect evil ability is being foiled by thin sheets of lead.

[Troacctid]

Try a detect fire. Any living creature without the cold subtype will ping. If they don't, then something's probably messing with your divinations.

Detect weaponry also works on creatures with visible weapons.

[Red Fel]

What it says on the tin. Paladin wants a way to learn if his detect evil ability is being foiled by thin sheets of lead.

Paladin should invest in Spot ranks. Or Sense Motive.

Really, that's your option. He's basically trying to bypass the bypass. Thin sheets of lead are a thing primarily as a mundane means to avoid divinations. Saying that he wants to know if someone is thwarting his Detect Evil ability is basically his way of saying "I want my Detect Evil ability to work even when it's not supposed to." It's his way of saying, "I know I failed my check, but I want to know that I failed, and in that way I will have succeeded." And that's not how it generally works.

Mind you, there are ways to bypass bypasses for other class features. A spellcaster who wants to cast in an AMF can dip Cleric of Mystra and take the Initiate of Mystra feat. A Barbarian who wants to Rage and hates dealing with fatigue can use racial or feat-based abilities to gain immunity to fatigue. And so forth. But most of these things carry a tax - you can't just figure out the work-around, you have to invest in it.

If you really want to let him, give him a feat tax. Call it "Piercing Judgment" or something like that. If he uses his Detect Evil ability on somebody who enjoys protection from divinations, such as from a sheet of lead, you secretly roll something-or-other to see if his ability pierces the protection. If it does, his ability works as normal; if not, he detects nothing. But that would be homebrew.

In any event, it's not free.

[Zanos]

Has he considered using his eyes to see if the person is holding a body sized sheet of lead?

[Mehangel]

What it says on the tin. Paladin wants a way to learn if his detect evil ability is being foiled by thin sheets of lead.

If you are playing D&D 3.5 there is a 3rd level spell in Races of Faerun called 'Detect Metal and Minerals' which allows you to specify a specific type of metal.

If you are playing Pathfinder and only allow 1pp, there is a 1st level spell: Detect Metal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-metal)

If you are playing Pathfinder and are using Spheres of Power, there are two talents that might interest you: Divine Elements (Alternate Divination) (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/divination#toc30) or Penetrating Divination (Advanced Talent) (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/advanced-talents#toc41)

[hamishspence]

Has he considered using his eyes to see if the person is holding a body sized sheet of lead?

If it's been turned invisible, and the character has reason to be stationary (say, a monarch giving briefings to the adventuring party from his throne) it may be harder to tell if there's a block.

[Troacctid]

If you are playing D&D 3.5 there is a 3rd level spell in Races of Faerun called 'Detect Metal and Minerals' which allows you to specify a specific type of metal.
Requires 10 pounds of lead as a material component, which is consumed on casting. Probably not the most practical solution.

[Elkad]

Locate Object for "lead sheeting"?
Detect Metals and Minerals (3.0)
Rod of Metal and Minerals Detection

All easily countered by Obscure Object.
Or a Mage's Private Sanctum over the area.
And Nondetection (with CL check of course)
Or lead sheets protecting the lead sheets

By royal decree, all supplicants to the throne must wear these protective goggles of invisible lead sheeting in the presence of the king

The problem is the Divination Arms Race pretty much favors the defender at all times, at least until you start asking gods for information.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Shugenja dip. Earth shugenja can sense earth-based material as a spell-like at will. With only 1 level he'd have to be within 5ft but, it's free and at will. Expands the spell trigger and completion items he can activate too.

[ryu]

Locate Object for "lead sheeting"?
Detect Metals and Minerals (3.0)
Rod of Metal and Minerals Detection

All easily countered by Obscure Object.
Or a Mage's Private Sanctum over the area.
And Nondetection (with CL check of course)
Or lead sheets protecting the lead sheets


The problem is the Divination Arms Race pretty much favors the defender at all times, at least until you start asking gods for information.

Then you just vecna blooded. It's enemies smart enough to ice assassin you for infor that are scariest. Only surefire way of no selling that tactic involves self mindrape in all manner of fun scenarios. There's also the age-death with item on yourself to prevent such tactic, but that can be gotten around with a timeless plane, murder the ice assassin, and reincarnate.

[P.F.]

Really, this would be for separating a "no" result from a null result when using the standard action/concentartion area-detect ability. Also for noticing chests, doors, crates, walls, etc. which might be lead-lined to conceal the contents.

[Zanos]

It really comes down as to whether or not you want him to be able to do this. Identifying people who have cause to ward themselves against divination as an at will first level ability is pretty potent, and 3.5 generally favors prepared defenders when it comes to information wars.

[Red Fel]

Really, this would be for separating a "no" result from a null result when using the standard action/concentartion area-detect ability. Also for noticing chests, doors, crates, walls, etc. which might be lead-lined to conceal the contents.

Read between the lines, though. I sincerely doubt that the Paladin just wants to know the difference between, "You detect no Evil," and, "There is a space you can't detect." (Which really should ping the same way, that is to say not at all.) I think what the Paladin wants is an excuse to say, "I know that I don't detect any Evil, but given that there's something blocking me, it's likely that there really is Evil there, so I'mma get my Smite on."

Which is fairly un-Paladin-ly, if you ask me. And of course you should.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Read between the lines, though. I sincerely doubt that the Paladin just wants to know the difference between, "You detect no Evil," and, "There is a space you can't detect." (Which really should ping the same way, that is to say not at all.) I think what the Paladin wants is an excuse to say, "I know that I don't detect any Evil, but given that there's something blocking me, it's likely that there really is Evil there, so I'mma get my Smite on."

Which is fairly un-Paladin-ly, if you ask me. And of course you should.

That's certainly a possibility but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion without knowing the guy.

Most of the paladins I play would generally presume anyone political is probably warded (Regardless of any laws that may or may not prohibit such) and would presume that someone he logically percieved as evil failing to ping on the old evil-dar was someone to watch carefully.

In a political -campaign- where I'm playing a paladin (how did I get into that mess... :smallconfused:) I'd probably start looking for ways to confirm the evil-dar readings too. Not so I can smite him (immediately anyway) but so I can gather more intell. Information is the ultimate weapon in such a campaign and every tool for its gathering is one I want if the opportunity cost isn't too steep.

[Zanos]

That's certainly a possibility but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion without knowing the guy.

Most of the paladins I play would generally presume anyone political is probably warded (Regardless of any laws that may or may not prohibit such) and would presume that someone he logically percieved as evil failing to ping on the old evil-dar was someone to watch carefully.

In a political -campaign- where I'm playing a paladin (how did I get into that mess... :smallconfused:) I'd probably start looking for ways to confirm the evil-dar readings too. Not so I can smite him (immediately anyway) but so I can gather more intell. Information is the ultimate weapon in such a campaign and every tool for its gathering is one I want if the opportunity cost isn't too steep.
Yeah, paladins aren't generally stupid and PCs should usually know how their abilities work. Someone not pinging Evil on the good ol' evildar shouldn't draw a conclusion of "this guy isn't evil", it should draw a conclusion of "I didn't detect any Evil, which could be for a variety of reasons." He isn't forced into thinking anyone that doesn't detect as Evil is not Evil.

[Deophaun]

This is why for non-smiting applications I prefer detect good over detect evil for spoiling campaigns. Nondetection-like protections are simply more common than misdirection, to the point where if the guy radiates Good, you can probably trust him to some extent. Everyone else is guilty until proven innocent.