Everything a Lore Bard can do with Find Steed, no cheese

[StarStuff]

Lore Bard 6 + Warhorse


Plate armor barding + warhorse = AC18, -130lbs
Trample + expertise Athletics = target prone and grappled
Warhorse + melee fighter = extra fighter attacks on foes further than 35ft away
120ft of dash + bard spell = enemy caster Counterspell denial
Warhorse movement + dismount = +2 AC cover bonus (relative to ranged attackers)
Movement + dismount = easy halfling Naturally Stealthy proc
Jack of All Trades + Vehicles (any) = every little bit counts



Please check my math

Dash on the warhorse + Dissonant Whispers = pinpoint positioning
Cliff + Dissonant whispers + Bardic Inspiration + warhorse + shove/trample + Cutting Words = up to 20d6 falling damage (also the coolest thing ever)
Bardic Inspiration + warhorse + Silence = caster grappled in spell effect
Tongues + Find Steed = Mr. Ed (talking horse)
Disguise Self + Find Steed = headless horseman Halloween gag (tell me if you use this to impress your friends)
Tasha's Hideous Laughter/Sleep + warhorse = prone and grappled target, incapacitated
Heroism/Cure Wounds/Invisibility/Lesser Restoration/Enhance Ability/Blade Ward + Warhorse = Twin Cast without Metamagic
Nondetection/Locate Object/Locate Animals and Plants/Comprehend Languages/Friend + Find Steed = shenanigans
Disguise Self + Find Steed + fancy noble horse auction = Horse-cognito



Here's a few more handy functions of Magical Secrets

Alter Self + Find Steed = Warhorse Aquatic form, shenanigans, and more shenanigans
Plant Growth + Gust of Wind + Warhorse + Freedom of Movement (at level 7) = glorious overkill
Conjure Animals (Giant Owls) + heavy net + Steed = solution to your flying problem
Mage Armor/Shield/Jump/Protection from Evil & Good/Mirror Image/Magic Weapon/Darkvision/Misty Step/Haste/Fly/Spider Climb + Find Steed = Incredulous glares from the DM
Enlarge/Reduce + Warhorse = shove & grapple Huge creatures
Find Steed + Longstrider (pre battle) + Expeditious Retreat + dismount = 210ft of movement + ~20ft (after dismount) + ~80ft (move and dash) = 310ft total (right?)



Plate armor barding is hard to get ahold of until level 7. Magical secrets can be retrained, if I read the Sage post correctly. With armorsmithing proficiency and the Fabricate spell, an open-minded Wizard 7 (or Lore Bard 10) can construct any mundane armor out of essential elements. Otherwise, you can expect to shell out 6,000 gold. Some DMs will substitute Jack of All Trades for armorsmithing proficiency. Others will rule it takes 2 casts of Fabricate since the mineral limitation adds a 5ft cube restriction.

Spells known is a problem on the Lore Bard with Find Steed. On my build, I'm planning to multiclass wizard around CL 8. Just the 1 level until end game (and then diviner). In exchange, you get to add 6 spells known (2 to 3 prepared): Expeditious Retreat, Shield, Magic Missile, Feather Fall, Jump, and Protection from Good and Evil.

Since wizard ritual casting is contingent on slot level, you can also access more high level spellbook rituals such as a Contact Other Plane, Rary's Telepathic Bond, and Drawmij's Instant Summons. By this time, you should have a few downtime days to research them. If you foresee a problem with this in Adventurer's League, please let me know. (flagged as cheese)

I'm going to keep adding to this over time. This is my first post to GitP.

What are the most creative tactics you've seen with a Lore Bard and Find Steed?

[StarStuff]

Reserved until further notice. I write this to accommodate the 10 word limitation. Aha!

[MrStabby]

I dont think AL will let you pick wizard spells of a high level with just a dip.

[DivisibleByZero]

I dont think AL will let you pick wizard spells of a high level with just a dip.

This is correct.
You use the multiclass spellcasting rules.
Think of it this way: wizards learn their spells by adding them to their spellbooks. They can only learn and prepare spells appropriate for their level. So a one level wizard dip gives you ritual casting, sure. But it only lets you cast 1st level rituals.

[StarStuff]

This is correct.
You use the multiclass spellcasting rules.
Think of it this way: wizards learn their spells by adding them to their spellbooks. They can only learn and prepare spells appropriate for their level. So a one level wizard dip gives you ritual casting, sure. But it only lets you cast 1st level rituals.

Page 164, "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Your spellbook, "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots..."

A Bard 8/Wizard 1 has one 5th level spell slot. Therefore he can add spells of 5th level to his spellbook.

The multiclass rules say nothing about rituals. Have any Sage advice rulings come out on this topic?

[Erys]

Page 164, "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

So bard 8/ wiz 1 is a first level wizard and can only knows first level wizard spells. Including rituals. Those are "spells you know" after all.

[StarStuff]

So bard 8/ wiz 1 is a first level wizard and can only knows first level wizard spells. Including rituals. Those are "spells you know" after all.
Yet wizard rituals are expressly not "spells known." For instance, I'm not hindered from learning those spells via the Ritual Caster feat.

If I multiclass fighter, I gain proficiency with all martial weapons. If I multiclass wizard, don't I gain proficiency with a ritual spellbook? That doesn't seem unintentional. You don't gain much else from the wizard MC, unlike comparable cleric MCs.

Thanks for the clarifications.


Edit: spelling

[bid]

Yet wizard rituals are expressly not "spells known." For instance, I'm not hindered from learning those spells via the Ritual Caster feat.
If you somehow find them, maybe. But not by leveling your wizard class.

Anything in the Classes chapter assumes all your levels are of that class, any level of another class does not exist. Therefore you only have the spell slots of your wizard-1.

[Erys]

Yet wizard rituals are expressly not "spells known." For instance, I'm not hindered from learning those spells via the Ritual Caster feat.

If I multiclass fighter, I gain proficiency with all martial weapons. If I multiclass wizard, don't I gain proficiency with a ritual spellbook? That doesn't seem unintentional. You don't gain much else from the wizard MC, unlike comparable cleric MCs.

Thanks for the clarifications.


Edit: spelling

Rituals are the same for all classes, they are "spells you know" in a special book. As a 8/1 bard/wiz you would have access to 4th level bard rituals and 1st level wizard rituals.

If you took the feat you could pick up another classes rituals, or even improve an existing classes ritual access. The feat has its own mechanics on what level spells you have access to.

[CantigThimble]

The Ritual casting feat is specifically designed so that non-casting classes can take the feat and use it. Ritual casting through any other means is based on the idea that you have a mechanism for learning spells independent of the ritual casting feature.

[Corran]

Lore Bard 6 + Warhorse
snip

These are some very cool ideas!!!
I've only recently heard of find steed + haste (vengeance paly's), but it seems that with the right spell selection (and selection of class to a degree) there is a lot of potential. Now I wonder how paladin/sorcerers can combine their spells and metamagic (extend most likely?) with find steed. Some of the above tricks surely apply, though the limited spell selection from sorcerers might be a problem. Though if the focus is on a mounted combat style, I guess i might be worth focusing on spells that suit that specific style and thus work well with find steed (something that holds true for a pure bard too, I guess). Anyway, I'll stop before derailing this thread too much, very cool ideas, bravo!

[StarStuff]

These are some very cool ideas!!!
I've only recently heard of find steed + haste (vengeance paly's), but it seems that with the right spell selection (and selection of class to a degree) there is a lot of potential. Now I wonder how paladin/sorcerers can combine their spells and metamagic (extend most likely?) with find steed. Some of the above tricks surely apply, though the limited spell selection from sorcerers might be a problem. Though if the focus is on a mounted combat style, I guess i might be worth focusing on spells that suit that specific style and thus work well with find steed (something that holds true for a pure bard too, I guess). Anyway, I'll stop before derailing this thread too much, very cool ideas, bravo!
Thanks! If I get more positive feedback, I'll see if I can turn it into a guide. I'm sure there are a few out there already. If anyone can repost them here, I'd like to use them for reference.

My favorite interactions are the ones that are totally combat ineffective, but ultra-flavorful. The twin cast on disguise self is what did it for me. I wish bards had mirror image on their spell list.

Does anyone know the procedure for getting on the 5E guides thread?

[RulesJD]

Lore Bard 6 + Warhorse


Plate armor barding + warhorse = AC18, -130lbs
Trample + expertise Athletics = target prone and grappled
Warhorse + melee fighter = extra fighter attacks on foes further than 35ft away
*snip*



*snip*

What do you mean by those three?

If you buy barding, when the Find Steed dies, the barding will fall to the ground. You can obviously recast it, but if you are fleeing then all of that barding (which will cost 6000gp) will be lost.

Why did you put Trample + expertise Athletics? You mean having your Find Steed knock the target prone and then you grapple it? Because your Find Steed doesn't get expertise in Athletics.

Not sure what mean by the third one.

[StarStuff]

What do you mean by those three?

If you buy barding, when the Find Steed dies, the barding will fall to the ground. You can obviously recast it, but if you are fleeing then all of that barding (which will cost 6000gp) will be lost.

Why did you put Trample + expertise Athletics? You mean having your Find Steed knock the target prone and then you grapple it? Because your Find Steed doesn't get expertise in Athletics.

Not sure what mean by the third one.Good questions

Plate armor barding + warhorse = AC18, -130lbs

Incidentally, you can use the death of your mount to another advantage. With Instrument of the Bards and other spells, you make your warhorse fly above a target. If they shoot down your mount, Feather Fall while the armor plummets down and into your target. Some DMs will do bludgeoning damage for this, others will just give you inspiration. :P
The 6000gp barding doesn't have to be that hard to replace, depending on how conservative your DM is about the Fabricate spell. Barding is arguably the most mechanically beneficial thing you can do with it. And what's one more creature in the group with 18AC. Your rogue has as much by now. And way more HP.
If your DM is a jerk about this, you could probably get away with Half-Plate at 15+1 AC. Or even studded leather at 12+1 AC. All of which is better than the 11AC base of the warhorse.
But otherwise, yes. You lose the barding when you flee. C'est la vie.


Trample + expertise Athletics = target prone and grappled

This one, admittedly, doesn't scale as well. Unless your DM is kind and scales the horses trample str DC to make a target prone as you take on stronger creatures. Still, you have Bane on your list...
Action sequence: "My warhorse moves 60ft towards Venomfang and attacks with Trampling Charge. Venomfang fails a DC14 strength saving throw and is knocked prone. My warhorse makes a second attack with advantage. My bard makes an expert grapple athletics check at advantage against Venomfang. My bard heckles Venomfang with Cutting Words. Venomfang fails the check and is prone and unable to stand.



Warhorse + melee fighter = extra fighter attacks on foes further than 35ft away

35ft is a guess at the average distance a fighter is really out of range. With Fleet of Foot, Mobile, Lunging Strike, reach weapons, and all those other goodies thrown in, most fighters I run with can move and strike a little further than 30ft.
The warhorse can move 60ft. If your fighter moves 15ft and climbs onto your mount at the end of his turn, he can move 60ft the next turn. Alternatively, you can Ready the action on your mount to dash once the fighter climbs onto him. And then the fighter can use more attacks on his own turn. The idea is to make it so your fighter doesn't have to Dash with his action.


Edit: spelling. Again.

[PeteNutButter]

Plate armor barding + warhorse = AC18, -130lbs

The 6000gp barding doesn't have to be that hard to replace, depending on how conservative your DM is about the Fabricate spell. Barding is arguably the most mechanically beneficial thing you can do with it. And what's one more creature in the group with 18AC. Your rogue has as much by now. And way more HP.
If your DM is a jerk about this, you could probably get away with Half-Plate at 15+1 AC. Or even studded leather at 12+1 AC. All of which is better than the 11AC base of the warhorse.
But otherwise, yes. You lose the barding when you flee. C'est la vie.


Where are you getting Fabricate spell? 10th level bard secrets? Fabricate specifically says it has to fit in a medium 5ft cube. I'd say full plate for a large creature is going to be... large.

At any rate I'm pretty sure most high level paladins are expected to invest money in eventually buying full plate for their mount, with the express interest in keeping it alive though. Besides with mounted combatant feat, the mounts AC is pretty irrelevant, so long as you are on his back.



Trample + expertise Athletics = target prone and grappled

This one, admittedly, doesn't scale as well. Unless your DM is kind and scales the horses trample str DC to make a target prone as you take on stronger creatures. Still, you have Bane on your list...
Action sequence: "My warhorse moves 60ft towards Venomfang and attacks with Trampling Charge. Venomfang fails a DC14 strength saving throw and is knocked prone. My warhorse makes a second attack with advantage. My bard makes an expert grapple athletics check at advantage against Venomfang. My bard heckles Venomfang with Cutting Words. Venomfang fails the check and is prone and unable to stand.




Your grapple check does not get advantage against prone targets, just attack rolls within 5 ft. Furthermore I'd say logistically although it isn't RAW, many DMs would say you cannot grapple a prone creature whilst atop a steed, unless you have 10 ft long arms.

[StarStuff]

Where are you getting Fabricate spell? 10th level bard secrets? Fabricate specifically says it has to fit in a medium 5ft cube. I'd say full plate for a large creature is going to be... large.

At any rate I'm pretty sure most high level paladins are expected to invest money in eventually buying full plate for their mount, with the express interest in keeping it alive though. Besides with mounted combatant feat, the mounts AC is pretty irrelevant, so long as you are on his back.
I've read you can retrain magical secrets. Which means you can swap a 3rd level Fireball magical secret for the 4th level Fabricate as a retrain at character level 7 - much like how the warlock can drop Comprehend Languages for Invisibility at level 3.

This thread isn't really about paladins, but I've run with Dungeon Masters who are cool with casting Fabricate twice to accommodate the 5ft cube limitation. And it's cool that I can solve that problem twice if there's a paladin in our group.
You build the first half of the plate armor barding with Fabricate casting
You build the second half of the plate armor with a second Fabricate casting

I watched a performer don his armor while I was at a Renescience faire. Armor is made from several layers of straps and plates. I think that's why most DMs don't bug. Again, we're talking AC on a horse. If your DM let's you sell barding, that's something else entirely.

Lore Bards have more spell slots with which to re-up Find Steed. Personally, I don't regularly call the same Steed, but that's just my fluff - I want my character to feel like he's being followed by team of dead horses.

I wouldn't take the mounted combat feat. Ever. It imposes an opportunity cost in having my allies ride on it instead of me, which I find remarkably useful as a ranged caster. I'm only riding it maybe half the time in battle. The other half, he's dead or aiding someone else.

There's no reason not to run the Steed as a disposable summon, much like Conjure Elemental. Sure, it goes down all the time. That's another reason I don't summon the same Steed. The armor is just a handy way to protect my second spell slot investment. It's a big bang for your buck.

It requires a little more maintenance and upkeep, but so do rituals and this is cooler.




Your grapple check does not get advantage against prone targets, just attack rolls within 5 ft. Furthermore I'd say logistically although it isn't RAW, many DMs would say you cannot grapple a prone creature whilst atop a steed, unless you have 10 ft long arms.

Prone, page 292, "An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5ft..."

Grappling, page 195, "When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack."

The eventuality your DM described could be overcome quite easily by
A)dismounting. It takes half your speed to mount and dismount, do so after your mount charges and tramples.
B)knocking your mount prone. If he insist, you could sacrifice your Cunning Words to use your reaction to land on your feet.

In either case, you have decent odds of keeping Venomfang prone and unable to stand, since his speed is 0ft.

[DivisibleByZero]

That swap is more cheese.
It says you can swap with a bard spell. Swapping Magical Secrets spells can only be done with spells on the bard list, as per normal.

So is your grapple also cheese.
You're not making an attack roll....

[StarStuff]

That swap is more cheese.
It says you can swap with a bard spell. Swapping Magical Secrets spells can only be done with spells on the bard list, as per normal.Good catch. Jeremy Crawford confirms (http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/12/13/a-spell-learned-via-magical-secrets/). I suppose that means I'll need to ask a party wizard. Or wait another 3 levels. Ah well.


So is your grapple also cheese.
You're not making an attack roll....
According to Mike Mearls (http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/15/grappling-a-prone-creature/), "yes, grappling is a melee attack and IIRC those have advantage vs. prone targets." Did he change his stance on this?

[DivisibleByZero]

According to Mike Mearls (http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/15/grappling-a-prone-creature/), "yes, grappling is a melee attack and IIRC those have advantage vs. prone targets." Did he change his stance on this?

Grappling is an attack, yes.
When, exactly, do you make your attack roll (and therefore recieve advantage)?

There isn't an attack roll. There's a skill contest. A skill contest is not an attack roll, it's an opposed skill check. Skill checks and attack rolls are two different things. One of them gains advantage against a prone target. One of them does not.

Mearls is less than reliable at times.
He even says IIRC, as in, he's not sure, but that sounds about right.
About being the key word in this idea.
It is just about right, because grappling is an attack, as he said. But it's also completely wrong, because grappling doesn't have an attack roll.

I 100% guarantee you that JC would confirm what I just told you.

[StarStuff]

I 100% guarantee you that JC would confirm what I just told you.I'm inclined to agree with you, but can you support this?

I definitely think you're right about Escaping a Grapple. That is definitely just a check. But I'm still hung up on that special melee attack bit. Then again, it also refers to a grapple check, a Strength (Athletics) check. 100% is pretty strong. Do you know JC personally?

[DivisibleByZero]

100%
You gain advantage on melee attack rolls against a prone target. So I'll ask you once again: at what point during your grapple do you make an attack roll?

...
...
...
...
...

Never.

[rollingForInit]

Page 164, "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Your spellbook, "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots..."

A Bard 8/Wizard 1 has one 5th level spell slot. Therefore he can add spells of 5th level to his spellbook.

The multiclass rules say nothing about rituals. Have any Sage advice rulings come out on this topic?

The rules for the Wizard class are the basic, generic rules. The multiclassing rules is another layer of rules on top of that to specify extra rules for special circumstances. So according to specific rule > generic rule, the multiclassing rules override the base class.

You are right in what you write later about this not applying to the Ritual Caster feat. The feat has rules of its own for how you'd add spells, so that would take precedence.

[Mellack]

It is important that grapple is an attack because it can replace one of your weapon attacks, also allowing the use of the extra attack feature. Grapple does not contain an attack roll however. Since there is no attack roll, you do not get advantage as prone specifies it is for attack rolls.

[StarStuff]

It is important that grapple is an attack because it can replace one of your weapon attacks, also allowing the use of the extra attack feature. Grapple does not contain an attack roll however. Since there is no attack roll, you do not get advantage as prone specifies it is for attack rolls.Alright. I'm convinced. Do you see any flaws in the following?


My bard enters the fight with Enhance Ability (Strength) casts on himself and his warhorse.

My warhorse moves 60ft towards Venomfang and attacks with Trampling Charge. Venomfang fails a DC14 strength saving throw and is knocked prone. My warhorse makes a second attack with advantage. My bard makes an expert grapple athletics check at advantage against Venomfang. He then heckles Venomfang with Cutting Words. Venomfang fails the check and is prone and unable to stand on account from having a move speed of 0ft.

Thanks for being patient with me while I get this down, everyone. I'm excited about this concept: no one has ever played a Lore Bard around me.

[JackPhoenix]

Alright. I'm convinced. Do you see any flaws in the following?


My bard enters the fight with Enhance Ability (Strength) casts on himself and his warhorse.

My warhorse moves 60ft towards Venomfang and attacks with Trampling Charge. Venomfang fails a DC14 strength saving throw and is knocked prone. My warhorse makes a second attack with advantage. My bard makes an expert grapple athletics check at advantage against Venomfang. He then heckles Venomfang with Cutting Words. Venomfang fails the check and is prone and unable to stand on account from having a move speed of 0ft.

Thanks for being patient with me while I get this down, everyone. I'm excited about this concept: no one has ever played a Lore Bard around me.

If your mount acts independently on you, it's got its own initiative, so Venomfang could possibly act between being trampled prone and your attempt to grapple him. If its controlled (which is RAI for Find Steed mount according to JC tweet), it acts on the same initiative, but can't attack.

[RulesJD]

Alright. I'm convinced. Do you see any flaws in the following?


My bard enters the fight with Enhance Ability (Strength) casts on himself and his warhorse.

My warhorse moves 60ft towards Venomfang and attacks with Trampling Charge. Venomfang fails a DC14 strength saving throw and is knocked prone. My warhorse makes a second attack with advantage. My bard makes an expert grapple athletics check at advantage against Venomfang. He then heckles Venomfang with Cutting Words. Venomfang fails the check and is prone and unable to stand on account from having a move speed of 0ft.

Thanks for being patient with me while I get this down, everyone. I'm excited about this concept: no one has ever played a Lore Bard around me.

Enlarge spell = one size category larger. Which means you'd be the same size as your Warhorse, which isn't allowed.

You could cast Enlarge while on the horse so you both become one size category larger I suppose.

[PeteNutButter]

Alright. I'm convinced. Do you see any flaws in the following?


My bard enters the fight with Enhance Ability (Strength) casts on himself and his warhorse.

My warhorse moves 60ft towards Venomfang and attacks with Trampling Charge. Venomfang fails a DC14 strength saving throw and is knocked prone. My warhorse makes a second attack with advantage. My bard makes an expert grapple athletics check at advantage against Venomfang. He then heckles Venomfang with Cutting Words. Venomfang fails the check and is prone and unable to stand on account from having a move speed of 0ft.

Thanks for being patient with me while I get this down, everyone. I'm excited about this concept: no one has ever played a Lore Bard around me.

I am very much a RAW guy, but I just don't see this as possible. Nothing RAW says you can't, but how on Faerun are your grappling someone on the ground while mounted. If you've ever ridden a horse IRL, you'd see this as practically impossible. You won't be touching anything lying on the ground without dismounting. Just google image a man on horseback and try to image him reaching down to the ground, then add in armor, and gear, and a conflict, and trying to hold the reins, and trying to not dismount himself via actively restraining someone else... etc

[StarStuff]

I am very much a RAW guy, but I just don't see this as possible. Nothing RAW says you can't, but how on Faerun are your grappling someone on the ground while mounted. If you've ever ridden a horse IRL, you'd see this as practically impossible. You won't be touching anything lying on the ground without dismounting. Just google image a man on horseback and try to image him reaching down to the ground, then add in armor, and gear, and a conflict, and trying to hold the reins, and trying to not dismount himself via actively restraining someone else... etc

I really shouldn't have forgotten the dismount on the second attempt at this scenario. My bad.

If your DM has an issue with grappling large creatures from horseback, add "The bard begins his turn by dismounting the Steed with half his movement."

[Mellack]

If you are going no cheese RAW, then your biggest problem is that the mount cannot attack. They are controlled, so the attack action is not one of their listed options. Many DMs would probably allow an independent mount, but it is not guaranteed.

[StarStuff]

Enlarge spell = one size category larger. Which means you'd be the same size as your Warhorse, which isn't allowed.

You could cast Enlarge while on the horse so you both become one size category larger I suppose.
I would love to get Enlarge/Reduce on my bard. It's one of my favorite spells, but only because the druid in my last group would dress up as a Giant Elk and my conjurer would enlarge her into a gargantuan creature. It was never that significant mechanically, but it feels good to ride on the back of something in the largest size category.

Enlarging my bard and mount so both can grapple giants feels like a great tactic for Storm King's Thunder. Alas, it competes against Counterspell, Misty Step, Mirror Image, Phantom Steed, Conjure Animals...


If your mount acts independently on you, it's got its own initiative, so Venomfang could possibly act between being trampled prone and your attempt to grapple him. If its controlled (which is RAI for Find Steed mount according to JC tweet), it acts on the same initiative, but can't attack.Totally legit. Most DMs have you run the mount on your turn to keep initiative tracking simpler - especially at Adventurers League.

There's a bunch of "if's" here. You have to 1) survive Venomfang's poison breath attack - which you can reduce with Cutting Words 2) position the horse before you in initiative, 3) hit with the horse, 4) Venomfang has to fail the STR save on trample, 5) you have to get off of your horse and land the grapple.

Still, I like that I can try.

[RulesJD]

If you are going no cheese RAW, then your biggest problem is that the mount cannot attack. They are controlled, so the attack action is not one of their listed options. Many DMs would probably allow an independent mount, but it is not guaranteed.

Technically they can, you just have to dismount first. Then, due to it being an intelligent mount, it can take the attack action and it acts independently. But, because it has an unbreakable bond with you via the Find Steed spell, you can order it to attack.

Is that stupid? Yes. But so is the initial ruling so there you go.

[Mellack]

Technically they can, you just have to dismount first. Then, due to it being an intelligent mount, it can take the attack action and it acts independently. But, because it has an unbreakable bond with you via the Find Steed spell, you can order it to attack.

Is that stupid? Yes. But so is the initial ruling so there you go.

You are correct. I was assuming that the mount was being ridden at the time.