PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Ranger without Spells (PEACH)



Ugganaut
2016-09-18, 07:26 PM
Loved the article in UA about these, I never liked that there was no option for a non-caster Ranger.
Using those design guidelines, I've been trying to do a version that has more a Ranger feel, rather than a Battlemaster a level prior to the actual Battlemaster. Design notes and UA guidelines at the bottom.

Ranger without Spells (replaces Ranger Spells at level 2)
You can tap into primal energy, allowing you to track down your prey and take it down more quickly. You also have knowledge on the curative uses of natural flora, and can apply it to aid injuries and sickness.
The DC for your Ranger abilities equals 8 + your Wisdom Modifier + Proficiency bonus.
Quarry - You gain the preternatural ability to quickly size up your prey, allowing you to hunt it more effectively. As a bonus action, you choose a creature you can see within 90 feet, and designate it as your quarry while concentrating(as a spell) for up to 1 hour. You deal an extra 2 damage whenever you hit your quarry with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. At level 9 damage increase to 3, you can target two creatures, and duration is 8 hours. At level 16 damage increases to 4 and the duration is 24hrs.
Called Shot - Before you make a weapon attack that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you apply one of the following effects:
Leg: If it fails a Dexterity saving throw, its movement is reduced by 10 feet until it regains any hit points. (Cumulative)
Arm: If it fails a Strength saving throw, it drops an object you choose, landing at its feet.
Body: If it is Large or smaller, and fails a Strength saving throw, you it up to 15 feet away from you.
Head: If it fails a Constitution saving throw, it is blinded until the end of your next turn.
Herbalist - You gain proficiency in the Herbalism Kit. If you are already proficient, you add double your proficiency bonus. As an Action, you can expend a use of Herbs to stabilize a dying creature.
In addition, during a short rest, you can perform one of the following, or two during a long rest.
Replenish Herbs - You can make a Herbalism Kit check if you are in an appropriate wilderness setting. You gain a use of Herbs equal to half of the check(rounded down). A Master Herbalist(17) has advantage on Herbalism Kit checks.
Healing Poultice - You can expend a use of your Herbs to tend to a creature and restore hit points equal to 1d6 per 2 Ranger lvls(roundup). At level 9, you also cure one poison effect on the creature in addition to restoring hit points.
Smoke Packet - You can expend a use of Herbs to craft a packet of crushed up sticky herbs and leafs that create a lot of smoke when burned. The item lasts for up to 8 hours before coming apart, or until used. If the item is ignited, smoke fills up the square it is in at the end of your turn. At the end of your next turn, the smoke extends to a 20ft radius. The smoke lasts for 1 minute. The smoke creates heavy obscurement. A Master Herbalist(17) can create a noxious smoke packet. Any creatures that start their turn within noxious smoke must succeed a Constitution saving throw or be Poisoned until the start of their next turn.
Herbal Insulation - You can expend a use of Herbs to create a thick paste and cover a medium creature. The paste stinks, and imposes disadvantage on Animal Handling checks while covered. Any creature making a Wisdom(Perception) check using scent has advantage on the roll to detect you. You are considered covered for up to 8 hours, gaining resistance to the next source of Acid, Cold, Fire or Lightning damage. When taking this damage, the paste hardens and crumbles, and you are no longer covered. Paste created by Master Herbalist(17) is expended at the start of the covered creatures next turn after taking this damage.
Animal Treat - You can expend a use of Herbs to prepare an enticing treat for a type of beast(Canine, Feline, Avian etc), mixing the herbs with appropriate food. The treat is effective for up to 8 hours, or it is used. Anyone using the treat during a Charisma check made with that type of beast, gains advantage on the roll. A Master Herbalist(17) can create two treats.

At 9th level, You gain a couple combat tricks, and can prepare a defensive campsite:
Defensive Perimeter- While in a wilderness area that has appropriate materials(twigs, sticks, leaves, rocks etc), you can spend an hour setting small traps at the edge of camp(20ft radius). Any creature who does not know of the traps, can make a Wisdom(Perception) check equal to your Ranger DC to notice the traps when they are adjacent to the perimeter. Creatures who don't know of the traps when crossing the perimeter, must make a Dexterity saving throw. If they fail they take 1d6 piercing damage, and it makes a noise loud enough to wake anyone within 50ft. If they success, they avoid the damage, but the noise still goes off.
Conceal Camp - While in a wilderness area that has appropriate materials(branches, leaves, outcrops etc), you can spend an hour concealing yourself and up to 5 other medium creatures in a 20ft radius. While the people in the concealed area remain relatively still(don't move from their square), they gain +10 to Dexterity(Stealth) checks to remain hidden from creatures outside the radius.
Defensive Flurry - As a bonus action, while you are holding a melee weapon, you whirl it around in a defensive flurry, granting +1 AC till the start of your next turn.
Rapid Fire - As a bonus action, you can make a ranged weapon attack against a creature within 5 feet of your Quarry.
Hold Breath - Through training, you can hold your breath twice as long as normal.

At 13th level, you gain Call Natural Allies: You can call natural creatures from the area to fight on your behalf, using your attunement to the natural world to convince them to aid you. The DM chooses beasts appropriate to the terrain to come to your aid from among those that could hear you and that are within 1 mile of you, in one of the following groups:
• One beast of challenge rating 2 or lower * Two beasts of challenge rating 1 or lower
• Four beasts of challenge rating 1/2 or lower * Eight beasts of challenge rating 1/4 or lower
These beasts approach you from their current location, and will fight alongside you, attacking any creatures that are hostile to you. They are friendly to you and your comrades, and you roll initiative for the called creatures as a group, which takes its own turns.
After 1 hour, these beasts return to their previous location. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again in the same general area for 24 hours, since the same animals will not repeatedly heed your call.

At 17th level, Master Herbalist: You can perform two of the Herbalist abilities during a short rest, or four during a long rest.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Design Notes:
Quarry - A replacement for Hunter's Mark, using the same type of action, and based off the same power source that allows the new Primeval Awareness(no spell required). It requires the same concentration as a spell. It is at-will, but has less damage potential than Hunter's Mark. Based off the Rage extra damage progression.
Rapid Fire never benefits from Quarry, so two weapon fighters still get an advantage, as does ranged and weapon/shield.
Called shots brings back some cool flavor from old editions, and adds the missing control from spells or manoeuvres. It's an at-will feature, so gave it a big penalty as feats like Great Weapon Master. Kept it away from HQ so barbarians can still use it(I'm converting a Barbarian5/Ranger3 from 4th, DM is worried RAW is a bit much for the multiclass).
Herbalist tries to replace the spell versatility. I based them off spells from the Ranger list, but more limited as you can only do one each short rest(two at lvl 17). I put an expiry on them, so things like Smoke Packet couldn't be hoarded.
Defensive Flurry gave melee rangers a defensive option, where the dual wielder had to give up his offhand attack, and a weapon and shield guy can do his job a little better. Ranged can draw a weapon to use if needed too.
Rapid Fire was to try add a very limited AoE to make up for spells like Conjure Barrage/Volley. Its at-will, which is why its pretty weak, but as it targets someone other than your Quarry, you can't stack the damage.
Hold Breath is a tip of the hat to Water Breathing.
UA Excerpt - (design considerations from the UA Ranger without Spells)
• Rangers gain a lot of their combat potency from spells, especially hunter’s mark. (Quarry)
• Rangers get some healing and restoration ability from spells such as cure wounds, lesser restoration, and protection from poison, which stave off the harm an adventurer might suffer while exploring in the wilderness. (Poultices)
• Rangers get some combat control effects from their spells such as ensnaring strike, spike growth, and conjure barrage, all of which give the ranger a magical edge in combat. (Called Shots)
• Rangers have a lot of exploration utility in their spells, with access to magic such as detect poison and disease, beast sense, and conjure animals. (Call Natural Allies)
• At some levels at which the ranger gains access to new spell levels, this is the only class feature the character receives. As a result, the ranger will need additional class features at those levels to prevent them from providing nothing to the ranger aside from increased hit points. (extra Quarry possible Call Natural Allies instead at lvl 13)

Appreciate any feedback,
Thanks

Edit: [1]Changed the Quarry damage, added Herbalist to attempt some versatility missing with spells. Also some campsite stuff, and a couple combat tricks. Haven't added much flavor text yet, but you should get the idea. [2] Changed the durations of the Herbalist creations to 8hrs, added the "twice per long rest" to Herbalist, Smoke Packet is now heavy obscurement.

Ugganaut
2016-09-19, 09:17 PM
Edit: After reading Revlid's "Wanderer" briefly, I liked the idea of Wis damage to Quarry instead of the 1d6, given that its an at-will ability. So changed that, and tidied things up a bit.

Markoff Chainey
2016-09-20, 03:40 AM
IMO, what you did mechanically here is perfect... not over nor underpowered, nothing to add.

While I really appreciate it, when I look at the spellless ranger and compare it to the "Fighter: Scout" ... it just falls short in both power and being interesting while covering basically the same role. I think it is really hard to create an interesting spell less Ranger when the Fighter: Scout is available. I also disliked the poultrices, but they were IMO what acually made the last spellless ranger, because it was a unique feature. I cannot think of another unique feature, because a spellless nature based warrior has everything covered by other classes already.

I think you did a great job, but I am not convinced that the spellless ranger can be made interesting to play given the new base class and other options.

Ugganaut
2016-09-20, 08:00 AM
Thanks for the feedback Markoff, really appreciate it.

I forgot about the Fighter Scout. I actually dislike it for the same reason you like it - it feels like a ranger without spells. I suspect they'll modify that if they do release it, now that Natural Explorer has been re-balanced for the Ranger class.
Switching the Quarry feature I currently have for the Fighter Scouts superiority dice might be a good fit actually. I didn't like the idea of the UA RwSpells basically getting the Battlemaster a level before Battlemaster does. But the wilderness flavor of the Scout does fit more, and a Ranger getting it a level before a fighter does make sense to me. I did like the primal flavor of Quarry, honing in on your target. To me it fit with the new Primeval Awareness not using a spell slot, so being "powered" by primal energy. At least thats how I saw it.

I like the idea of Poultices, just not the UA RwSpells version. Giving Herbalist Kit a function, and limiting the rangers healing to 1/short rest seemed fair.

The main issue I have with my version, is it lacks the versatility of spells. Conjure Barrage does a big AoE, utility like Water Breathing for example. There's some control options in Called Shots, I like that, but its still lacking a bit. I need to put more thought into that. The Call Natural Allies is cool(straight from UA), but its not enough. I'm trying to steer clear of long rest abilities, as thats more spells. So need weaker versions of things like water breathing(just as an example) that can be used each short rest. I always hesitate with these things, because things can get overpowered too quickly, and you want all versions of the ranger to be desirable.

I'll work on it over the next few days and edit the main post. Need this sort of feedback, I don't get to play test all this stuff enough before games.
Thanks again Markoff :)

Kathulex
2016-09-20, 08:23 AM
This looks pretty good! I will probably use it for my homebrew low magic setting as the primary ranger.

Ugganaut
2016-09-20, 09:07 AM
Thanks Kathulex, its still a work in progress, but I think its coming along well. I think the damage side at lower levels is good, just working on a bit more versatility in as the class advances to make up for the lack of spells.
Actually going to change the Quarry damage when I update this next. I posted on here about the Natural Explorer and Favored Enemy changes I wanted to make to the new UA Ranger in our game, and decided to use the Barbarian Rage damage modifier, as its an existing class feature, and I like that it slowly scales a bit - but not too much. I didn't like the +2/+4 Jump at level 6 in the UA Ranger.
The issue with the Wis modifier, is some races might suffer a bit, and other builds could benefit a bit too much. So +2 to begin, +3 at lvl 9, and +4 and lvl 16. I think thats much more appropriate for a class feature, and using it for both Quarry and Favored Enemy means double that damage(+4/+6/+8), which looks good to me.

Appreciate the feedback, thanks :)

Kathulex
2016-09-20, 09:14 AM
I get ya. I have lots of problems converting classess to this setting since so many of them are magic oriented. Looking forward to any tweaks you do.

Ugganaut
2016-09-20, 12:22 PM
Ok, made some big changes. Haven't polished it yet, but thats enough to give you an idea. Haven't thought of how it can be abused yet, and I'm not happy with all the naming/wording, but that comes later. Level 17 is a bit lack luster, might need something else.

Would love to know if this is interesting enough, and if its under or over powered.

Thanks again for the feedback guys.

Kathulex
2016-09-20, 01:03 PM
I like this, it gives the player option to finally use kits more properly. The class actually feels like a ranger and not like a bow totting druid that has a pet instead of turning in a bear.

For Level 17, try upgrading the existing herbalist skills. Maybe larger smoke? Stronger heals? I tend to play in parties with no dedicated healer and rather expensive potions so any other, cheaper source of healing is preferable.

Ugganaut
2016-09-20, 06:40 PM
For Level 17, try upgrading the existing herbalist skills. Maybe larger smoke? Stronger heals? I tend to play in parties with no dedicated healer and rather expensive potions so any other, cheaper source of healing is preferable.

The healing scales with level already(and can do one per short rest which is strong), and I had the idea of increase the potency of the others as well. Although it sounds boring, that is essentially what Master Herbalist does, allowing 2 heals, or 2 smoke packets etc. It gives you more flexibility so if you only need one heal, you can do one poultice and something else. I need to change the 10 use kit though, thats obviously based on the Healer's Kit where you have bandages and the sort. Herbalist Kit is more tools for gathering and preparing. So will change that to something like "Gather Herbs, make a check, and gain 2 uses of herbs per 5 of your check rounded down". Give it a small weight, like 1/2 pound per 10 uses, and then you can stock pile herbs if you have the space and the access to them in the wilderness. That also makes the double proficiency more useful, but doesn't slow down play to much(a single roll). Things like the animal treat and the smoke packet also have the advantage of being used by anyone, so don't want to increase the potency too much. Was thinking of making the smoke just light obscurement at lower levels, but then a poisonous option later on - no damage, but applies the poison effect(so would have disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks). Was trying to add a weaker version of Fog Cloud, but its heavy obscurement...maybe make it heavy obscurement that lasts one minute, then save or poisoned at 17th?
A work in progress :)

Thanks again for the feedback Kathulex

Ugganaut
2016-09-20, 07:37 PM
I've made those changes, and added a Master Herbalist entry on each of the Herbalist Abilities. I'm wondering if its too strong to add the "use two Herbalist abilities" at a lower level? So Expert Herbalist, at level 13? lvl 17 would then just be Master Herbalist, which would increase the potency of the effects.

Revlid
2016-09-21, 03:48 AM
Edit: After reading Revlid's "Wanderer" briefly, I liked the idea of Wis damage to Quarry instead of the 1d6, given that its an at-will ability. So changed that, and tidied things up a bit.

...if you liked it enough to be inspired by it, I don't suppose you could have taken the time to comment (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501146-The-Wanderer-New-Martial-Class-Ranger-Replacement-PEACH&p=21219405#post21219405)?

To add my own comments... I like the ideas behind your Herbalism feature. It reminds me somewhat of an earlier version of my Campfire Knacks – the same is true of Defensive Perimeter and Conceal Camp. That's not a criticism, mind you. It's a good way of approximating existing Ranger spell capabilities while adding some "camping in the wilderness" flavour.

For Herbalism, however, you don't detail what happens during a long rest. You also don't detail how long a given "use of herbs" lasts, though the products of those herbs (smoke packets, etc) are very short-lived. I'd consider increasing the duration to 8 hours, so you can't hoard them through a long rest. I'm also not sure what "half the check" means in Replenish Herbs (you don't need to specify "rounded down", by the way – that's the default).

Called Shot is a very cool idea.

Ugganaut
2016-09-21, 07:52 AM
...if you liked it enough to be inspired by it, I don't suppose you could have taken the time to comment (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501146-The-Wanderer-New-Martial-Class-Ranger-Replacement-PEACH&p=21219405#post21219405)?
My apologies, that was my first day on the forums, I'm still not sure on ettiquete. I was reading it for a few minutes then had to leave, but the Wis idea stuck with me so I originally changed it, and had to find your post to give you credit. I've been reading a few of the posts around, but its been time consuming to craft replies, so never got back to yours sorry. I'll try have a read tomorrow if time permits.


For Herbalism, however, you don't detail what happens during a long rest. You also don't detail how long a given "use of herbs" lasts, though the products of those herbs (smoke packets, etc) are very short-lived. I'd consider increasing the duration to 8 hours, so you can't hoard them through a long rest. I'm also not sure what "half the check" means in Replenish Herbs (you don't need to specify "rounded down", by the way – that's the default).
I'm definitely lacking in the flavor text, I haven't gotten that far yet, I only did the herbalism yesterday and its change since then. What do you mean by "what happens during a long rest"?
The herbs last indefinitely, not because its realistic, just for simplicity. I've got the smoke packet and herbal insulation lasting 1hour(unless used), the animal treat is 12hrs because it wasn't as strong, and the poultices doesn't create anything, the herbs are used during the short rest to heal.
I like your suggestion of 8hrs, I was worried about stock piling during the day, especially since they can be used by other people. But as long as it doesn't last through a long rest, it shouldn't be an issue. I'll change it in the morning.
"half the check" just means you roll d20, add your Herbalism Kit bonus, and divide by 2 - thats the amount of Herb uses you get. I originally had the kit at 10 uses like the Healers kit, and just said "replenish the kit during a short rest", but it made no sense to limit it to only 10. If the area can support it, you should be able to pick and carry as many as you're capable of in an allotted time. I figure with a check of 5-8, average roll, you'll get about 8 uses of Herbs. Herbs is something you can stockpile, its the how often you can use them that is limited(and carry capacity I guess). Gave herbalism kit a use too, I liked that. Actually, might add advantage to herb kit rolls as a feature later on. Its not used for anything else, so it just means you have to replenish less often, which isn't a bad thing.


Called Shot is a very cool idea.
Thanks, its one of the things we miss from older editions, and I thought it would be a cool way to add some control. Balancing against spells is proving challenging :)

Thanks for the feedback Rev, much appreciated.

Revlid
2016-09-21, 10:43 AM
What do you mean by "what happens during a long rest"?All the Herbalism powers can be used during a short rest. Can they be used during a long rest?

Ugganaut
2016-09-21, 11:49 AM
All the Herbalism powers can be used during a short rest. Can they be used during a long rest?

I'm not sure how other short rest abilities work. A long rest is usually sleeping, where a short rest I thought was just taking it easy - light activity. No reason you couldn't take a short rest first thing after waking up. Have to think about that one, thanks.

Revlid
2016-09-21, 06:03 PM
I'm not sure how other short rest abilities work. A long rest is usually sleeping, where a short rest I thought was just taking it easy - light activity. No reason you couldn't take a short rest first thing after waking up. Have to think about that one, thanks.

Note that a long rest is eight hours long, but only requires six hours of real "rest". Characters can spend time going on watch, cooking, setting up camp, scribing spells, etc.

Ugganaut
2016-09-21, 07:56 PM
Note that a long rest is eight hours long, but only requires six hours of real "rest". Characters can spend time going on watch, cooking, setting up camp, scribing spells, etc.

Didn't know that, good to know. I gotta run now(was commenting on your post), but I'll think about this later and make some adjustments. Thanks again :)

Ugganaut
2016-09-22, 04:06 AM
Increased the Herbalist creation durations to 8hrs, and added "2 per long rest".