New campaign begins Wednesday, help me decide

[thebiglost1]

I like the bladesinger. I like the Pal2/Sorc18. I like the Fighter 1/Warlock X PAM-Sentinel.

Rolled Stats were 17 13 13 13 12 12.

Pick one of the above [please no new builds my mind is already full lol] and give me ONE reason why. Nothing long and elaborate needed, unless you want to.

Thanks for your time.

[Celcey]

Personally, I like the bladeslinger because wizard is my favorite casting class and it's a nice gish without needing to multiclass. But what are you hoping to get out of this character? Who are they?

[Erys]

If your only concern is being a murderhobo, flip a coin. Both rock.

If you have a story or purpose for one over the other, let that guide you.

[bid]

Rolled Stats were 17 13 13 13 12 12.
Crappy odd stats, at best 17 14 14. You really want a SAD class.
- bladesinger needs Dex/Int
- paladin needs Str/Cha
- bladelock needs Str/Cha
All of them are a little MAD.

Maybe vuman with a half feat to get 18 14 14, but I think only actor/observant would work.
Maybe half-elf with Str18 Con14 Cha15.


Compare to point buy which can get you an easy 16 16 14.

[CantigThimble]

In order to best leverage your ability scores I think I'd go with fighter/tomelock. You can grab heavy armor master and get str 14, con 14 and cha 18. Take green flame blade and then grab shillelagh at level 4 from the tome. You won't be able to cast and use a shield until you take warcaster but you will still be stupidly tanky and do terrible damage with armor of agathys. For the pact I'd probably take fey for the extra mobility but any of them could work.

[Citan]

I like the bladesinger. I like the Pal2/Sorc18. I like the Fighter 1/Warlock X PAM-Sentinel.

Rolled Stats were 17 13 13 13 12 12.

Pick one of the above [please no new builds my mind is already full lol] and give me ONE reason why. Nothing long and elaborate needed, unless you want to.

Thanks for your time.
I'd say Bladesinger at first, because it can really rock especially if you go all the way to 20.

With your stats though, I'd say Human Fighter/Bladelock is the best mechanically speaking.
1. You can start with high STR (18), decent CON (14) and CHA (14).
2. You can mainly use non-CHA spells (Armor of Agathys, Darkness, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Fly)...
3. You can multiclass in everything you like so if you favor the "gish" aspect over the "full spellcasting" aspect you can easily grab 1/2 level elsewhere later if you feel it would be fun or useful for you and your party, for example...
- Life Cleric if there is no healer (you also get Bless and Shield of Faith for yourself or others).
- Rogue 2 to expand bonus actions (although Hex and PAM already use it, you could be glad to be able to Dash or Disengage as a bonus action sometimes. And you can Hide in combination with Darkness) .
- Wizard to get good spells such as Shield + Find Familiar + Magic Missile (in addition to roll swap with Diviner or shenanigans with Conjurer/Transmuter)

Best build if you plan on using Hex (meaning you want as many attacks as possible so Extra Attack + bonus action).
So it is my main recommendation.


Alternative 1. If you intend to spend Concentration elsewhere, you can ditch Bladelock to go Tomelock and use Shillelagh + SCAG cantrips instead. Warcaster instead of Polearm Master+Sentinel will be a much needed feat there but you will become great past lvl 11. And you get potentially all ritual spells.

Alternative 2. Go Paladin Devotion 3 / Draconic Sorcerer 17: you can put CHA as your highest stat. When you have time to do so, cast Sacred Weapon to become good at hitting. Otherwise, use Shocking Grasp directly. Or Bless yourself to compensate the lower attack stat. A bit more complex at lower levels though.

[Plaguescarred]

I'd go bladesinger unless there's already a wizard in the party.

[Citan]

Crappy odd stats, at best 17 14 14. You really want a SAD class.
- bladesinger needs Dex/Int
- paladin needs Str/Cha
- bladelock needs Str/Cha
All of them are a little MAD.

Maybe vuman with a half feat to get 18 14 14, but I think only actor/observant would work.
Maybe half-elf with Str18 Con14 Cha15.

Compare to point buy which can get you an easy 16 16 14.
This is actually the kind of situation when normal Human shines. ;)

Also, Bladelock can be perfectly fine with low CHA, because there are enough non-CHA dependent spells to be efficient (even without using the Shillelagh trick).
You lose out on damage because of 12th feature, but losing 1-2 points per attack for a feat is often worth it.
And with such a high STR to start with, OP will surely have an ASI or two he can spend on bumping CHA anyways. :)

[thebiglost1]

Basic background- elf noble [either high if bladesinger or half if other spec] whose life so far of debauchery had lead him to be ostracized by the kingdom after his mother does, who was the only one that 'protected' his hoisting endeavors. Now he wanders...

[NecroDancer]

I'd go fighter 1/bladelock X. I'd also be a half-elf and make my stats 17 13 14 12 12 14.

[Citan]

I actually just thought about a pretty stupid build. A nasty idea that only you could pull of thanks to your rolls (compared to point buy), and would actually fare pretty well once it comes online. You are sacrificing a bit and it's very awkward fluff-wise though.

Basic idea: go normal Human as I said above.
Instead of putting your 18 in STR, put it in DEX.
So array 13 STR 18 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 14 CHA.
"Wut? is he mad?"
Nop, not at all.

The idea is to dip Monk. Yes, Monk. Since you would probably want to use a quarterstaff, it allows you to make an attack with your DEX instead of STR since considered monk weapon, and you can also make a bonus action attack (it's unarmed, so 1d4 instead of 1d8, but if you use Hex it is good enough to avoid or wait later for Polearm Master).

Thanks to this, you can use DEX as a primary, meaning better Initiative, Dex saves, stealth, Mirror Image, Mage Armor...

It also expands new options, like...
- Instead of starting Fighter, start Sorcerer (Shadow if allowed, otherwise Draconic) for the same Constitution proficiency but also... Permanent Mage Armor (frees an Invocation), Shield, Magic Missile and cantrips. Only downside is no shield proficiency, but Monk forbids it anyways.
- And/or dip Bladesinger 2: you get many interesting things, including cantrips/Shield/Magic Missile (same as sorcerers), but also Find Familiar, 1st level ritual casting, and another +2 to AC and concentration saves while bladesinging (works with one-handed quarterstaff by RAW).

So you sacrifice between 1-3 Warlock levels to get useful spells and abilities, as well as usable cantrips to expand your choice and help survive spike hits. ;)

Of course I wouldn't actually recommend it unless you started as a lvl 5 character minimum, because it's a real pain to start in fluff and mechanics.

[DivisibleByZero]

Staff rogue/monk works fantastic.... with an houserule allowing sneak attack.
Monk lets you use Dex, sure, but it doesn't give staff the Finesse tag. That's why you need the HR.

Edit : I don't know why I thought I saw the word rogue in there.
Carry on.
:smallsmile:

[Corran]

I like the bladesinger. I like the Pal2/Sorc18. I like the Fighter 1/Warlock X PAM-Sentinel.

Rolled Stats were 17 13 13 13 12 12.

.......
Your stats seem to best fit a SAD build (even better perhaps a SAD build with peculiar multiclassing requirements; Paladin/necromancer perhaps? But since you are between 3 choices lets talk about them).

From your 3 options, none of them is particularly SAD, though they all can work with your rolled stats. If I had to choose, I would pick bladesinger, as I think it is the one option that can perform to the best of its ability with one stat being that much better than the others (having a mediocre ''casting'' score with any of the above builds will be very tricky, due to the need for ASIs, so prioritizing your casting stat is the best thing to do imo, and that is why I would value the faster and perhaps better spell progression and selection respectively, of the bladesinger). So I would pick a high elf bladesinger, with the following starting stats: 12 STR, 15 DEX, 13 CON, 18 INT, 13 WIS, 12 CHA. Then I would probably boost both dex and con with the 4th level ASI, leaving me with 4 more ASIs (1 of them would eventually go to int for and int score of 20, and the other 3 for dex/con bumps and/or feats).

[Mitchellnotes]

I know you aren't looking for new suggestions, but all those 13's are screaming for some odd multiclassing. Arcana cleric with a paladin 2 dip (esp if you can pick up shillelagh), put your high stat in wisdom. Could do either medium armor with 14 dex (after racials or whatnot) in dex or start with paladin for heavy armor. Different take on a smite-bot.

Or Arcane trickster/paladin 2 dip, either str or dex based with your highest stat could be fun.

A bard could be interesting too, or knowledge cleric. With that stat distribution, you could be reasonably good at any skill you could ever want.

Actually, lore bard with a life cleric dip (medium armor, shield, with the life cleric bonus, pick up aura of vitality maybe find steed) could be a fun build too.

[Drackolus]

Gonna have to agree with the others- the three builds you mention ar MAD and your stats are SAD. It does look like you're set on being a gish. In light of that, you'll need to either be a physical stat (str/dex) and just limit your spell list. A dex rapier warlock in light armor works right out of the box, no hassle.
Your other option is to be based on a mental stats. For that, you'll need at least medium armor and shillelagh. Ways to get those are:
Wis: m.initiate, nature cleric, or spell sniper. Nature cleric is sort of a gish on their own. Pump str up to 15 and wis to 20 and you're good to go. Druid armor restrictions and monk MAD rule them out for this build. You can go some mix of nature cleric and fighter, probably ek for shield and improved casting. Not really a traditional gish, though.
Cha: tomelock 3 or lore bard 6/ other bard 10. You can be a valor bard and be an automatic gish, but you won't get cha shillelagh until 10. You could go tomelock3/valor bardx, but you won't get multiattack until 8... Though gfb/bb fix that.
Int: nature theurge 2. Mix with ek and you're dandy. Warcaster necessary, but it sort of already was. By lvl 3, you can have con prof, medium armor, and int to hit. V. Human with warcaster starting fighter and then going 2 wizard, then proceeding however you like. You can start with your 14 dex and 18 int.

[DivisibleByZero]

Don't listen to the people saying that those rolls require a SAD build.
They don't.
You can easily have an 18 and a 14 or two. 14 is good enough. That's only -1 mod from an optimal starting point buy build.
You can toss the 17 (or 18) into either a melee stat or a casting stat, and put the 14 (or two) into Str/Dex (and maybe Con).
You're fine. The fact that you start with a17 or 18 means that you might have one less ASI needed, so starting down by one ASI isn't exactly killing you like they'd have you believe.
With those stats you can literally play anything you want to play.

[bid]

Don't listen to the people saying that those rolls require a SAD build.
Don't listen to people telling you to not listen. Accept every opinion and fact, and make up your own mind.

If you aren't bothered by the limitations of going MAD, then do so. You've been here long enough to gain some expertise and form your own opinion.


For instance, Citan managed to pull out a constructive MAD viewpoint which showed you can still get something nice that way. That's how you win argument, with facts and respect of the opposite POV.

[thebiglost1]

Landed on blade lock.

Team is ancient paladin, hunter ranger, wild magic sorcerer and me.

Preciate the help fellas.