Skills in ability checks

[andylatham82]

Hi, at the age of 33 I'm a total newcomer to D&D, and have just bought the starter set for the 5th edition. I'm going to be taking on the role of DM with my family who are even more clueless about it, and so am brushing up on the basic rules. I understand everything except for one thing: the proficiency bonus.

If I am following things correctly then an ability check could consist of:

d20 + Ability Modifier + Proficiency Bonus

What I don't understand is why you can be more or less proficient in some area (+1, +2 or +3 in a skill) but you only use the single proficiency bonus that's written at the top of the character sheet. Or am I getting something wrong?

It would make more sense to me to use the number associated with the individual skill in the calculation rather than the proficiency bonus.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer me!

Andy

[hymer]

What I don't understand is why you can be more or less proficient in some area (+1, +2 or +3 in a skill) but you only use the single proficiency bonus that's written at the top of the character sheet. Or am I getting something wrong?

I'll choose to believe you meant 'can't' rather than 'can'.

Reason: Coz them's the roolz. :smallwink: More specifically, previous editions have had skills to varying degrees. 5e went with making it simple, so you're either proficient or not, end of conundrum.
It may be worth pointing out that there is such a thing as half proficiency (Jack of All Trades springs to mind) and double proficiency (Expertise is the obvious one there) in the rules.

[Ninja_Prawn]

d20 + Ability Modifier + Proficiency Bonus

Perhaps you've misunderstood the meaning of the skill numbers on the character sheet? Your bonus for any given skill = Ability Modifier (if you're not proficient) or Ability Modifier + Proficiency Bonus (if you are proficient) or Ability Modifier + 2xProficiency Bonus (if you're an expert).

Ability modifier represents your natural ability. People with strong muscles run faster than people with weak muscles. Proficiency bonus represents experience and training. That's why it scales with level - a 20th level character naturally has more life experience, so if they're good at something, they will be very good at it.

[Aembrosia]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55568275/Steve.png

This is steve. Steve has practiced his long life in performing intimidating rap battles, (despite being naturally bad at it as a person), Parkouring down the city streets escaping the law, hiding in alleyways and when necessary, stealing horses. All of which has given him proficiency in Intimidation, Athletics, Stealth, and animal handling. They are things he regularly does so hes pretty okay at doing them.

The genetic lot in life he was dealt gave him a strong physique of 16 strength, an agile body of 14 dex, he ignored the advice of his elders setting him at the average of 10 wisdom and hes an ugly, rude, son of a gun so people tend to dislike him at an 8 charisma. All of which further affects his chances of excelling or failing a Skill Check in a respective stat category.

[andylatham82]

Perhaps you've misunderstood the meaning of the skill numbers on the character sheet? Your bonus for any given skill = Ability Modifier (if you're not proficient) or Ability Modifier + Proficiency Bonus (if you are proficient) or Ability Modifier + 2xProficiency Bonus (if you're an expert).

Ability modifier represents your natural ability. People with strong muscles run faster than people with weak muscles. Proficiency bonus represents experience and training. That's why it scales with level - a 20th level character naturally has more life experience, so if they're good at something, they will be very good at it.

Thanks for the responses guys. I get from both responses that the aim is simplicity. What, then, is the point in having varying degrees of skill if you can only be "proficient" or "not proficient"? Are the skill levels used for something else that I have yet to learn, such as being an expert?

And just for clarity, am I right in thinking that a skill of +1 and above is considered "proficient" and 0 and below is considered "not proficient"?

Sorry for these questions being so simplistic for you experienced guys! It's just all completely new to me. My experience of RPGs is only video games and Fighting Fantasy books!

[Ninja_Prawn]

And just for clarity, am I right in thinking that a skill of +1 and above is considered "proficient" and 0 and below is considered "not proficient"?

No, no. That's not it at all.

Look at Steve (an inspiration* to us all). He has a +2 in Acrobatics, even though he is not proficient in it. He is proficient in Intimidation, but only gets a +1 bonus because he's so lacking in Charisma. (Charisma is about force of personality, that's why it governs Intimidation.)

*Though he should probably have put that 2 in the 'proficiency bonus' box, rather than 'inspiration'...

[Contrast]

Thanks for the responses guys. I get from both responses that the aim is simplicity. What, then, is the point in having varying degrees of skill if you can only be "proficient" or "not proficient"? Are the skill levels used for something else that I have yet to learn, such as being an expert?

And just for clarity, am I right in thinking that a skill of +1 and above is considered "proficient" and 0 and below is considered "not proficient"?

Sorry for these questions being so simplistic for you experienced guys! It's just all completely new to me. My experience of RPGs is only video games and Fighting Fantasy books!

Just to clarify something in case there has been a misunderstanding -

When you create a character you choose a number of skills to be proficient in. For those skills you get d20 + Ability modifier + proficiency bonus. It represents things your character has trained to be good at. These skills will continue to improve as you level as the proficiency bonus rises.

For other skills (which you have not chosen to be proficient in) you just get d20 + Ability modifier, representing how naturally good you are at a skill without training. These skills will remain static as you level unless the relevant stat associated with them is raised or lowered.

The expert thing being discuss is a class feature of a few of the classes (Bards and Rogues) whereby they can choose some skills to gain double their proficiency bonus in making them extra good at those particular skills.

Edit -

For example, look at Steve above his Intimidation score is +1 as he is proficient: (Cha modifier of -1) + (Proficiency bonus of +2)
So you would roll 1d20+1 for an intimidation check.

His deception score would be -1 (no proficiency bonus as he is not proficient in that skill): (Cha modifier of -1)
So you would roll 1d20-1 to get the result for a deception check.

As highlighted by NinjaPrawn, his Acrobatics is actually higher than his intimidation even though he is not proficient in it as he is naturally better at dexterity based tasks than charisma based tasks resulting in a +2: (Dex modifier of +2)
So you would roll 1d20+2 for an acrobatics check.
However this skill will remain the same if the character is level 1 or level 20 as long as his dex modifier remains the same, while a skill you are proficient in would get significantly better as you level up and your proficiency bonus improves.

If Steve has the expertise class feature and chose to put his expertise in intimidation he could now get a +3: (Cha modifier of -1) + 2*(Proficiency bonus of +2)
So you would roll 1d20+3 to get the result for the intimidation check.

[andylatham82]

Just to clarify something in case there has been a misunderstanding -

When you create a character you choose a number of skills to be proficient in. For those skills you get d20 + Ability modifier + proficiency bonus. It represents things your character has trained to be good at. These skills will continue to improve as you level as the proficiency bonus rises.

For other skills (which you have not chosen to be proficient in) you just get d20 + Ability modifier, representing how naturally good you are at a skill without training. These skills will remain static as you level unless the relevant stat associated with them is raised or lowered.

Edit -

For example, look at Steve above his Intimidation score is +1 as he is proficient: (Cha modifier of -1) + (Proficiency bonus of +2)
So you would roll 1d20+1 for an intimidation check.

His deception score would be -1 (no proficiency bonus as he is not proficient in that skill): (Cha modifier of -1)
So you would roll 1d20-1 to get the result for a deception check.

The expert thing being discuss is a class feature of a few of the classes (Bards and Rogues) whereby they can choose some skills to gain double their proficiency bonus in making them extra good at those particular skills.

Hmmm ok, so I get that the numbers in the "skills" box of the character sheet are nothing to do with whether a character is proficient or not. I haven't made a character yet, I'm just looking at the pre-made character sheets that come with the starter set. So if I'm looking at a character sheet, how do I know which skills the character is proficient in? Are they the ones with the coloured-in circles next to them perhaps?

[Contrast]

Hmmm ok, so I get that the numbers in the "skills" box of the character sheet are nothing to do with whether a character is proficient or not. I haven't made a character yet, I'm just looking at the pre-made character sheets that come with the starter set. So if I'm looking at a character sheet, how do I know which skills the character is proficient in? Are they the ones with the coloured-in circles next to them perhaps?

Yep thats right. :)

[Aembrosia]

Yes and another ten letters for the minimum to post. Yes

[andylatham82]

Ahhh finally the penny drops!! Thanks a lot guys, much appreciated :smallsmile:

[Ninja_Prawn]

Ahhh finally the penny drops!!

*ten seconds later*

"Hey, if I play a half-elf rogue with the skilled feat... ooh, and I could multiclass bard and ranger..."

[Specter]

If you want to be half-proficient at everything, take 2 Bard levels.

[Vogonjeltz]

Hmmm ok, so I get that the numbers in the "skills" box of the character sheet are nothing to do with whether a character is proficient or not. I haven't made a character yet, I'm just looking at the pre-made character sheets that come with the starter set. So if I'm looking at a character sheet, how do I know which skills the character is proficient in? Are they the ones with the coloured-in circles next to them perhaps?

The spaces next to the skills is so you can write the total bonus (modifier + proficiency if it exists) that the character would have for easy reference.

example:
Level 1 character has +2 proficiency bonus.
If they have 10 Strength they have a +0 strength modifier
If they have 12 Dexterity they have a +1 dexterity modifier

Let's say they are proficient in Athletics and Acrobatics, but not in Stealth.
They should have the bubble next to Athletics filled in, and it would be a total of +2
Acrobatics should have the bubble filled in, and be a total of +3
Stealth should not have the bubble filled in, and would be a total of +1.

[CrazyCrab]

Also, since you asked before, you can be an expert in something.
It's called 'expertise' and some classes have this feature, where you choose some skills you are and expert at. You use double your proficiency for those.
But don't worry about it for now, they will explicitly state it in the skill description.

Also, you can't be too late to enjoy role playing. Have fun and good luck DMing! :smallwink:

[andylatham82]

The spaces next to the skills is so you can write the total bonus (modifier + proficiency if it exists) that the character would have for easy reference.

example:
Level 1 character has +2 proficiency bonus.
If they have 10 Strength they have a +0 strength modifier
If they have 12 Dexterity they have a +1 dexterity modifier

Let's say they are proficient in Athletics and Acrobatics, but not in Stealth.
They should have the bubble next to Athletics filled in, and it would be a total of +2
Acrobatics should have the bubble filled in, and be a total of +3
Stealth should not have the bubble filled in, and would be a total of +1.

Ahhhh! I finally understand the numbers in the skills boxes! Thanks so much for explaining that. I had no idea they were just the two added together. :)

[andylatham82]

Also, since you asked before, you can be an expert in something.
It's called 'expertise' and some classes have this feature, where you choose some skills you are and expert at. You use double your proficiency for those.
But don't worry about it for now, they will explicitly state it in the skill description.

Also, you can't be too late to enjoy role playing. Have fun and good luck DMing! :smallwink:

Thanks a lot! I don't know how it's going to go as I personally have no experience, and I'm going to be attempting to play with my wife and two kids, all of whom know nothing of the game and, in the case of the kids, will struggle to understand. That's why I want to wrap my head around things before we start - so I can simplify things for the kids to help them enjoy it. Hopefully if we get on well with the game we can do more and more as the kids get older.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'm going to be attempting to play with my wife and two kids, all of whom know nothing of the game

Have fun!

You can always come back here if you need anything explained. There's a wealth of experience on this forum and we're all happy to help. :smallsmile: