Swashbuckler Help (Mostly Feats)

[Ceralune]

Hi, some of my friends and I are running the Council of Thieves AP soon and I'm hoping to plan out as much of my character progression as I can. Other than the DM and I (a PC), all of the other PCs are being played by people who have never played tabletop RPGs before so I'm hoping this will free me up to spend more time helping them with their progression during our sessions rather than scrutinizing over my own. With that, I'd welcome any advice as to what I should be building towards, especially in terms of feats as there are just so many. In fact, we are playing with a house rule that we gain 1 feat per level (we find that it lets us pick more flavorful feats and create more interesting characters), so I can really select a lot of options here.

I'm playing an Aasimar Swashbuckler and am probably going to be tanking for a good portion of the campaign (other PCs are Wizard, Gunslinger, and Inquisitor). I tend to be more power gamey but I'm really aiming for a more complex character this time in terms of personality and RP, so that was taken into consideration with my current choices. My character is definitely going to be the face of the group.

Here's what I'm thinking so far in terms of Feat Progression:

Level 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana) (using a wakizashi until level 3)
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Katana)
Level 3: Slashing Grace (Katana)
Level 4: Iron Will
Level 4 Bonus Feat: Combat Reflexes
Level 5: Power Attack
Level 6: Cornugun Smash
Level 7: Additional Traits (Slippery & Carefully Hidden) (treating these traits as just a feat rather than flavor)
Level 8: Improved Initiative
Level 8 Bonus Feat: Antagonize (really not sure about this one as it seems to be single-target, but I don't want the wizard to get skewered)
Level 9: Angelic Blood
Level 10: Angelic Wings (This is not up for debate, I want my cool angel wings)
Level 11: Critical Focus
Level 12 and onward unsure

I'm considering Signature Deed (Dizzying Defense) but I don't know if our campaign will get to level 15. =\

So yeah... any help with the blanks from level 11 onward or what you view as better options for 1-10 would be appreciated. Also I'm unsure of what magical items I should be aiming for, so suggestions on that would be cool too. Thanks!

[Geddy2112]

I highly doubt you need extra panache. I assume you used one of your better rolls for your charisma score, and with a racial mod I highly doubt you will run short on panache unless you are spamming it. Once you hit level 5 and have improved critical you should be getting panache back left and right.

Since you qualify for power attack anyways and you are probably going to be maxing intimidate for antagonize, consider cornagun smash. I know you have menacing swordplay to intimidate as a swift action, but if you are power attacking you can do it for free, getting two bites at the apple to debuff.

Antagonize is a very powerful feat and worth taking. Angelic wings is also good for permanent, non dispellable flight.

Since you are CHA based, eldritch hertiage can score you a familiar, and if you go that route get an improved one. Celestial servant might be good for that one. Signature deed for dizzying defense is also good should the campaign get there.

Although not super powerful, dodge/mobility might be of use if you are constantly tumbling around the battlefield.

[Psyren]

Level 6: Power Attack (yes I have 13 STR due to our rather unorthodox ability score rolling)

What stats would those be exactly?

[CharonsHelper]

At those levels - I'd probably suggest getting Critical Focus and getting one of the nasty crit feats since you already have a 15-20 crit.

Also - Iron Will is nice. Great Fortitude wouldn't be bad either. (Swashbucklers have saving throw issues.) Instead of Iron Will you could take Steadfast Personality - letting you use your Charisma against mind-affecting Will saves. (nearly 2/3 of them)

Are you going to take any Swashbuckler archetypes? Noble Fencer also helps against mind-affecting saves at the cost of Charmed Life. (which isn't as good as it looks at first glance considering how many Swashbuckler abilities want to use their swift action)

[Ceralune]

I highly doubt you need extra panache. I assume you used one of your better rolls for your charisma score, and with a racial mod I highly doubt you will run short on panache unless you are spamming it. Once you hit level 5 and have improved critical you should be getting panache back left and right.

Since you qualify for power attack anyways and you are probably going to be maxing intimidate for antagonize, consider cornagun smash. I know you have menacing swordplay to intimidate as a swift action, but if you are power attacking you can do it for free, getting two bites at the apple to debuff.

Since you are CHA based, eldritch hertiage can score you a familiar, and if you go that route get an improved one. Celestial servant might be good for that one. Signature deed for dizzying defense is also good should the campaign get there.

That's good to hear about the panache; I kept reading that you get very little and so I was concerned, but yes I'm going to have 20 CHA so I'm glad to know that's sufficient.

I didn't know Cornugun Smash existed, and it looks neat! I think I'll move power attack to lv 5 and get smash at level 6 then c:

I considered Eldritch Heritage, but tbh I don't think it would fit my character's backstory very well. So as cool as a familiar would be, I'll probably have to pass.


What stats would those be exactly?

So on top of the house rule where we choose one feat per level, we roll each ability score by rolling 1d8 + 10. As a result my stats are 13 STR, 15 CON, 20 DEX, 13 INT, 14 WIS, 20 CHA. The others actually rolled even more ridiculous stats than I did and our DM was nice enough to let us keep them.


At those levels - I'd probably suggest getting Critical Focus and getting one of the nasty crit feats since you already have a 15-20 crit.

Also - Iron Will is nice. Great Fortitude wouldn't be bad either. (Swashbucklers have saving throw issues.)

Are you going to take any Swashbuckler archetypes?

Crit Focus looks nice, definitely something I'd pick up as one of my unsure picks o: Katana is 18-20 crit as well so... lol. What are these nasty crit feats you speak of? c:

I opted for Steadfast Personality instead on Iron Will. With my stats that's essentially a +3 to will saves instead of +2. Should I take Iron Will on top of that?

Not taking any of the archetypes. I don't really like the benefits and they don't fit with backstory anyways. And I don't wanna be a pirate.

Thanks for all of the great suggestions <3

[CharonsHelper]

Crit Focus looks nice, definitely something I'd pick up as one of my unsure picks o: Katana is 18-20 crit as well so... lol. What are these nasty crit feats you speak of? c:

I opted for Steadfast Personality instead on Iron Will. With my stats that's essentially a +3 to will saves instead of +2. Should I take Iron Will on top of that?

For the critical feats - check here http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/feat-tree - and look under Critical Focus. They can do things on crits such as Fort save vs. being permanently blinded, or another is Fort save vs 1d4 rounds of stun AND if they pass the save still get 1d4 rounds of staggered. etc.

They all have high BAB requirements (at least +11) and some require Weapon Specialization - limiting them to a few classes (Fighter/Samurai/Brawler etc.)

Of note with Steadfast Personality: it's great, but it only helps with mind-affecting will saves. So it doesn't help with saves against fear effects, many illusion types, and some other sporadic things.

Of note when using Power Attack - as a Swashbuckler you only get a 2:1 ratio, so it's not very good, especially since it's also lowering your defenses (parry/riposte) and lowers your speed of regaining panache via critting.

[Ceralune]

For the critical feats - check - and look under Critical Focus. They can do things on crits such as Fort save vs. being permanently blinded, or another is Fort save vs 1d4 rounds of stun AND if they pass the save still get 1d4 rounds of staggered. etc.

They all have high BAB requirements (at least +11) and some require Weapon Specialization - limiting them to a few classes (Fighter/Samurai/Brawler etc.)

Of note with Steadfast Personality: it's great, but it only helps with mind-affecting will saves. So it doesn't help with saves against fear effects, many illusion types, and some other sporadic things.

Of note when using Power Attack - as a Swashbuckler you only get a 2:1 ratio, so it's not very good, especially since it's also lowering your defenses (parry/riposte) and lowers your speed of regaining panache via critting.

Wow, some nice feats under that tree. Would bleeding/staggering critical be good picks for my level 12/13 feats or are there other statuses I should consider?

Darn it, I completely skipped over that mind-altering qualifier... and they even highlighted it. :c feelsdumbman

Power Attack is one I'm not 100% sure about, but I wanted options for increasing my damage and I'm not sure what else to go for.

[Geddy2112]

Of note with Steadfast Personality: it's great, but it only helps with mind-affecting will saves. So it doesn't help with saves against fear effects, many illusion types, and some other sporadic things.


All fear effects are mind-affecting, as are all enchantments, phantasms, and patterns. Certainly there are a lot of will saves that it won't help against, but it covers some of the worst ones to fail.

[Psyren]

Of note with Steadfast Personality: it's great, but it only helps with mind-affecting will saves. So it doesn't help with saves against fear effects, many illusion types, and some other sporadic things.


Nearly all fear effects are mind-affecting too so it will generally help there. In addition, mind-affecting will saves are usually the worst kind to fail.

[Ceralune]

After reading more people's comments it seems like Steadfast Personality would still be a good pick. Would it be okay taking that and using Charmed Life to compensate for the saves it doesn't cover?

Also friendly reminder, magical item recommendations are welcome too! So far I know I'm getting a Cloak of Resistance and Mithril Chain and... yeah that's really it

[Psyren]

After reading more people's comments it seems like Steadfast Personality would still be a good pick. Would it be okay taking that and using Charmed Life to compensate for the saves it doesn't cover?

Also friendly reminder, magical item recommendations are welcome too! So far I know I'm getting a Cloak of Resistance and Mithril Chain and... yeah that's really it

Big 6 (Slot):

1a. Physical Stats (Belt of Physical X, Waist)
1b. Mental Stats (Headband of X, Headband)
2. Deflection AC (Ring of Protection +X, Finger 1)
3. Natural AC (Amulet of Natural Armor +X, Neck)
4. Armor AC (Mithril Chain +X, Armor)
5. Saving Throws (Cloak of Resistance +X, Shoulders)
6. Weapon (Katana +X, Weapon)

That leaves Eyes, Head, Chest, Body, Wrists, Finger 2, Hands, and Feet.

Also you should have a ranged weapon as a backup.

[CharonsHelper]

Also friendly reminder, magical item recommendations are welcome too! So far I know I'm getting a Cloak of Resistance and Mithril Chain and... yeah that's really it

1. If you take the Armor Expert trait you can wear a Mithril Breastplate at no penalty. (technically you take the ACP to everything... but the ACP is -0) Though eventually Celestial Chain will be even better.

2. Get a Plume of Panache (or 3 - replacing between encounters) they basically replace any need you might have for the Extra Panache feat.

3. Make sure that you have a magic buckler - you probably know that, but I've seen some Swashbuckler builds which forget that the buckler doesn't use up your hand and therefore you still qualify for Precise Strike & Slashing Grace.

4. Get Deliquescent Gloves - using one and sharing out the 2nd. (unlike many gloves - you don't need a pair of them) It adds 1d6 acid damage. Not amazing - but handy enough (pun intended) since you were looking for increased damage. They're crazy good for TWF rogues who can use them alone as touch attacks against high AC targets and still add their SA to the d6 acid damage.

[Ceralune]

Also you should have a ranged weapon as a backup.

Ahh, I did totally forget the ranged weapon. Thanks for the reminder. Belt of Dex/Con and Headband of Cha would probably be best? Thanks for laying it all out.


1. If you take the Armor Expert trait you can wear a Mithril Breastplate at no penalty. (technically you take the ACP to everything... but the ACP is -0) Though eventually Celestial Chain will be even better.

2. Get a Plume of Panache (or 3 - replacing between encounters) they basically replace any need you might have for the Extra Panache feat.

3. Make sure that you have a magic buckler - you probably know that, but I've seen some Swashbuckler builds which forget that the buckler doesn't use up your hand and therefore you still qualify for Precise Strike & Slashing Grace.

4. Get Deliquescent Gloves - using one and sharing out the 2nd. (unlike many gloves - you don't need a pair of them) It adds 1d6 acid damage. Not amazing - but handy enough (pun intended) since you were looking for increased damage. They're crazy good for TWF rogues who can use them alone as touch attacks against high AC targets and still add their SA to the d6 acid damage.

I did indeed take that trait :D on breastplate vs. chain, I'm unsure since the chain would give me a +6 cap on my Dex modifier, which I will get eventually. The plate only allows for +5. Did not know Plume of Panache was a thing. I do have a normal buckler but didn't think about getting a magic one, so I'll keep that in mind.

I'm unsure of what you mean with the glove - you mean I can just put on one Deliquescent Glove and put on another of a different kind? Do a lot of gloves work this way?

[CharonsHelper]

I did indeed take that trait :D on breastplate vs. chain, I'm unsure since the chain would give me a +6 cap on my Dex modifier, which I will get eventually. The plate only allows for +5.

Overall the mithril breastplate is +1 AC higher (6 Armor & 5 Dex vs 4 Armor & 6 Dex) which is definitely worth a trait and 3k. And even when you get the Celestial Armor, the trait won't go to total waste as Celestial Chain has a -2 ACP.

Since you'll have a high enough Dex to take advantage of Celestial Chain it's debatable, but it's certainly worth considering.


I'm unsure of what you mean with the glove - you mean I can just put on one Deliquescent Glove and put on another of a different kind? Do a lot of gloves work this way?

Many magic gloves require you to wear a pair for any effect and say so in their description, but Deliquescent Gloves do not. You would only really want to wear both if you were using TWF.

Even if you don't wear a different magic glove, you can loan the other one to a buddy, or you could each chip in 4k of their cost in the first place.

[Ceralune]

Overall the mithril breastplate is +1 AC higher (6 Armor & 5 Dex vs 4 Armor & 6 Dex) which is definitely worth a trait and 3k. And even when you get the Celestial Armor, the trait won't go to total waste as Celestial Chain has a -2 ACP.

Since you'll have a high enough Dex to take advantage of Celestial Chain it's debatable, but it's certainly worth considering.



Many magic gloves require you to wear a pair for any effect and say so in their description, but Deliquescent Gloves do not. You would only really want to wear both if you were using TWF.

Even if you don't wear a different magic glove, you can loan the other one to a buddy, or you could each chip in 4k of their cost in the first place.

Err... my mistake, I realize I was very very unclear on the chain vs. breastplate. I was referring to both of them as mithril. Mithril chain allows +6 Dex mod but has 1 less AC than the Breastplate. So it seems to even out. Celestial Chain allows a Dex mod of +8 and I will definitely want that, especially if I'm getting a Dex belt. I'm not sure about which mithril armor to get. They both seem pretty even. Still taking the trait to negate my Buckler ACP.

The gloves make more sense now; it could be worth sharing with the Inquisitor. Thank you for explaining c:

[Psyren]

You can get away with wearing one glove, but wearing any other magic glove there is a no-go. Whether you use it with one glove or two, you only have a single "Hands" slot.


A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which slot on the body the item is worn.
...
Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those in the slots listed above have no effect.

[CharonsHelper]

Err... my mistake, I realize I was very very unclear on the chain vs. breastplate. I was referring to both of them as mithril. Mithril chain allows +6 Dex mod but has 1 less AC than the Breastplate. So it seems to even out. Celestial Chain allows a Dex mod of +8 and I will definitely want that, especially if I'm getting a Dex belt. I'm not sure about which mithril armor to get. They both seem pretty even. Still taking the trait to negate my Buckler ACP.

Actually - in Pathfinder the breastplate has +1 overall higher AC either steel or mithril. You might be thinking about 3.5. (In Pathfinder they increased all medium & heavy armor by 1 AC.)

Once you get a masterwork version, bucklers have no ACP to worry about.

[Ceralune]

You can get away with wearing one glove, but wearing any other magic glove there is a no-go. Whether you use it with one glove or two, you only have a single "Hands" slot.

Sounds like a smart rule to have in place. xD


Actually - in Pathfinder the breastplate has +1 overall higher AC either steel or mithril. You might be thinking about 3.5. (In Pathfinder they increased all medium & heavy armor by 1 AC.)

Once you get a masterwork version, bucklers have no ACP to worry about.

Right, the breastplate has +1 higher AC than the mithril chain. However - since the chain has +1 higher Dex mod cap and I should get to +6 Dex by level 8 at the latest, and because of Dex bonus to AC, they seem evenly matched. The disadvantage with the chain is that I may be in situations where I'm denied my Dex bonus to AC, but the advantage is that I get higher Dex and thus, higher attack rolls and damage rolls. That would be the tradeoff I see, unless I'm missing something.

[Sayt]

Are you talking about Chain Mail or Chain Shirt?

Also, take a look at Kikko armour (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/eastern-armor-and-shields). Mediujm armour, same max dex as Chain shirt, but 1 more AC.

[CharonsHelper]

Right, the breastplate has +1 higher AC than the mithril chain. However - since the chain has +1 higher Dex mod cap and I should get to +6 Dex by level 8 at the latest, and because of Dex bonus to AC, they seem evenly matched.

No.

The breastplate as +2 Armor vs chain shirt.

WITH Dex included it still has +1 AC.

[Ceralune]

Are you talking about Chain Mail or Chain Shirt?

Also, take a look at medium armour, same max dex as Chain shirt, but 1 more AC.

We were talking about a mithril chain shirt vs. breastplate o: kiiko armor has a rather low dex mod cap in comparison but thanks for the suggestion


No.

The breastplate as +2 Armor vs chain shirt.

WITH Dex included it still has +1 AC.

Ohhhh, I am looking at the wrong sources. Okay yes I see. Sorry for the confusion. Hmm then I don't know what to pick yet. Guess I'll decide that later xD