Help with Clerical Options in Homebrew setting

[Teryon]

I'll spare everyone the details of the setting, doubt its germane to the question or that anyone cares. The one important bit is that the party Tiefling cleric is playing a Lawful Evil follower of a God of Death and Trickery. The Death aspect is of the 'death is a natural part of life, everything has their time and place(and Ill gladly make sure your time and place is now if you cross me), those who cheat death are abomination', the trickery aspect is a sort of Fae-like 'I will follow my given word, if you're intelligent enough to pin me down, and I'm happy to manipulate others within the limits of a given word'.

Said player is an old 2nd and 3.5 player, and loves the idea of the blackguard. Problem is, every version Ive seen for 5e(be it homebrew, or the oathbreaker), just doesn't fit. Are there options I'm missing out on or have ignored unintentionally? Failing that, potential options for modifying an existing class for the right flavor, an armored knight out to bring order to the wheel of life and death while ensuring his or her own wants and needs are met through cunning\manipulation\force?

Thanks in advance for anyone who'll help, and apologies for whatever critical needed info I didn't realize I had to provide.

[LostHanyou]

From your description it seems like both death cleric and oathbreaker paladin should fit fine. For death cleric a 1 level fighter dip would give heavy armor proficiency. Oathbreaker is essentially the 5e version of a blackguard as well.

What about these two doesn't fit thematically?

[Ninja_Prawn]

an armored knight out to bring order to the wheel of life and death while ensuring his or her own wants and needs are met through cunning\manipulation\force?

What's wrong with straight fighter? Or an evil devotion paladin?

Long ago, I homebrewed a blackguard (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ka4rxdsyxbp6n0p/Martial.pdf?dl=0), intending to capture the spirit of the oathbreaker paladin without the half-casting. You're welcome to use it if it appeals.

[Teryon]

From your description it seems like both death cleric and oathbreaker paladin should fit fine. For death cleric a 1 level fighter dip would give heavy armor proficiency. Oathbreaker is essentially the 5e version of a blackguard as well.

What about these two doesn't fit thematically?

The actual Death cleric in the DMG has far too much of a focus on necrotic energies, not particularly useful when you're trying to destroy them\put them to rest, same with the oathbreaker.



What's wrong with straight fighter? Or an evil devotion paladin?

Long ago, I homebrewed a blackguard (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ka4rxdsyxbp6n0p/Martial.pdf?dl=0), intending to capture the spirit of the oathbreaker paladin without the half-casting. You're welcome to use it if it appeals.

As for straight fighter, it just messes with the clerical spell progression. Haven't yet found a good homebrewed oath for a paladin that's evil but not 'cackling kill-all-the-things' evil. I shal check out your homebrew blackguard and see if it fits.

Appreciate the responses from you both.

[Biggstick]

If he's trying to bring order to the wheel of life, an Oath of the Crown might fit.

Hear me out now. It sounds like you're open to a bit of homebrew, and if this PC doesn't like how tank-like the spell selection/features granted by Oath of the Crown, who's to say you don't steal things from any of the other oaths to replace what Crown has? As the DM, you can mix and match the things from the Paladin class that you think fit, using the Oath of the Crown as a chassis for the Blackguard.

An example of a swap might be one of the Crown's Channel Divinities for Vengeance's Channel Divinities. Maybe you don't think a Blackguard would utilize the Divine Allegiance granted by Crown (take the damage for an ally within 5'), and would instead utilize Devotion's aura of Devotion (you and allies within 10' can't be charmed). You might decide a Blackguard should have Hellish Rebuke as part of their spell list. The main point is you can stick with the Oath of the Crown tenets, which are pretty lawful, and build around that.

[Teryon]

If he's trying to bring order to the wheel of life, an Oath of the Crown might fit.

Hear me out now. It sounds like you're open to a bit of homebrew, and if this PC doesn't like how tank-like the spell selection/features granted by Oath of the Crown, who's to say you don't steal things from any of the other oaths to replace what Crown has? As the DM, you can mix and match the things from the Paladin class that you think fit, using the Oath of the Crown as a chassis for the Blackguard.

An example of a swap might be one of the Crown's Channel Divinities for Vengeance's Channel Divinities. Maybe you don't think a Blackguard would utilize the Divine Allegiance granted by Crown (take the damage for an ally within 5'), and would instead utilize Devotion's aura of Devotion (you and allies within 10' can't be charmed). You might decide a Blackguard should have Hellish Rebuke as part of their spell list. The main point is you can stick with the Oath of the Crown tenets, which are pretty lawful, and build around that.


..Hadn't even heard of that particular oath. Looks like I'm going to go acquire the sword coast adventures supplement, if google's any proper indication of source. Why it never occurred to me to just mix and match oaths is beyond me, hell the goddess said PC is serving is a new one anyway(Erandis Vol, now Volandis, having ascended with some PC's from a previous Eberron game, that have found a new world after Eberron was forced back into the multiversal orrery instead of being its own little isolated pocket realm).

[JAL_1138]

Refluffed War Cleric? Heavy armor, hits reasonably hard for a cleric, banishes undead. Invest a little in Charisma and come up with a custom background that gives Intimidate and Deception as skills.

You could rework the Oath tenets of a Vengeance paladin a little and pick a background that gives Deception as a skill. Mechanically it's fairly germane I'd think. Maybe a level of Rogue in there somewhere?

[brainface]

I would trickery cleric with a little bit of rogue, personally. That way youre sending people on their way all personal like with a dagger to the throat, and if your deities tricks fool them they deserved it. More divine assassin than death knight?

[Teryon]

I would trickery cleric with a little bit of rogue, personally. That way youre sending people on their way all personal like with a dagger to the throat, and if your deities tricks fool them they deserved it. More divine assassin than death knight?

That particular idea is already being taken by the party rogue who dedicates each kill to her goddess(same one as the cleric), and is contemplating getting either a few cleric levels to go with her already quite lethal talents(party just hit lvl 5 last week) or pick up some blessed weapons.

There's not a good-aligned member of the party, which amuses me on some level.

[brainface]

That particular idea is already being taken by the party rogue who dedicates each kill to her goddess(same one as the cleric), and is contemplating getting either a few cleric levels to go with her already quite lethal talents(party just hit lvl 5 last week) or pick up some blessed weapons.

There's not a good-aligned member of the party, which amuses me on some level.

I want to be in your group. :/

[Herobizkit]

I also support the Vengeance Paladin for this concept; it's the most "Striker" of the Oaths (and 4e's Blackguard was built off the Paladin frame).

Depending on how fast (or how high) you level, slap on some Trickery Cleric for a healthy spell boost? Inflict Wounds is a pretty strong hitter for a level 1 spell, for example, and your improved number of spell slots can be dumped into Smites as well.

[MrStabby]

It sounds like you may want something similar to what I am playing in a game.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488320-The-Black-Knight

A brutal dirty fighter with heavy armour, sinister aspect and spellcasting (evil but not necromantic), some sneak attack and basically an all-round scary guy.

[Teryon]

Here's what Ive come up with so far.

The Oath of Mortality is a vow to preserve the natural flow of life and death. There comes a time for all things when one must pass on to make way for the new. Paladins who take this oath attempt to ensure that those who extend their life far beyond any reasonable lifespan can actually die while protecting those whose life has yet to reach its natural conclusion. They specialize in killing undead such as ghosts, vampires, liches, zombies as well as those who have made deals with fiends or worse entities; they also specialize in ensuring their efforts are not spent lightly, as the undead feel no pity, remorse, or fear and will never ever stop.


Tenets of the Oath of Mortality

Banish the Undead - Those who have denied their own death through unnatural means are an abomination; assist them in moving onto the next stages of their existence by sending them to the afterlife, by any means necessary.

A Certain Point of View - Give not your word lightly; only those of sufficient intellect and wisdom should earn your true given word.

No Mercy for the Wicked - Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies never will.

Responsibility - Your actions have consequences, deal with them as you will, but deal with them.

Oath Spells:

Paladin Lvl 3 - Bane, Fog Cloud
Paladin lvl 5 - Gentle Repose, Misty Step
Paladin Lvl 9 - Lesser Restoration, Mass healing word
Paladin lvl 13 - Aura of Life, Ice Storm
Paladin lvl 17 - Banishing Smite, Geas

Channel Divinity
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity Options:
Vow of Enmity. As a bonus action, you can utter a vow of enmity against a creature you can see within 10 feet of you, using your CD. You gain advantage on attack rollsagainst the creature for 1 minute or until it dropsto 0 HP or falls unconscious.
Lifeglow. As a bonus action, you can use your CD to imbue creatures within 30 feet with the power of the divine. Choose a number of creatures up to your CHA modifier; attacks these creatures make that deal damage deal an additional 1d6 radiant damage.

Aura of Resistance
Starting at 7th level, your devotion to the cause manifests as a subtle warmth around you, pleasant without raising the actual temperature. You and friendly creatures within 10 feet have resistance to cold and necrotic damage. At 18th level the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

Vengeful Wrath
Starting at 15th lvl, the authority with which you speak your Vow of Enmity gives you greater and expanded power over foes. WHen a creature under the effect of your Vow of Enmity makes an attack, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature if it is within range, or strike for 1d8 radiant damage if at range.

Wrathful Angel
At 20th level, you can assume the form of a dark angelic avenger. Using your action, you undergo a transformation. For 1 hour, you gain the following benefits:
- Wings sprout from your back and grant you a flying speed of 60 feet.
- You emanate an aura of menace in a 30ft radius. The first time any enemy creature enters the aura or starts its turn there during a battle, the creature must succeed on a wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you for 1 minute or until it takes damage. Attack rolls against the frightened creature have advantage.
- You grant the power divine to your allies. Any ally within 10 feet of you that makes an attack that deals damage deals an additional 1d6 radiant damage.