Shortstuff
2016-09-20, 04:53 PM
The long story short is I'm trying to figure out if Fighter (Tactician) 11 is a viable build in comparison to the other options you could have by that level.
So, I've always been a fan of Aid Another builds in Pathfinder, and I'm trying to decide whether I prefer the standard Cavalier / Bard / Battle Herald type of build, a Golden Legionnaire type of build, or the Fighter (Tactician) route.
With any of these builds, I'm looking at using most of the typical guns you see in any Aid Another build. Open the spoiler below if you're unfamiliar with them.
TRAITS:
Helpful (Halfling) - Increases the bonus from Aid Another to +4.
Battlefield Disciple - Increases the bonus by +1 for attack boosts, thus making it +5.
FEATS
Bodyguard - Aid Another as AOO to grant AC to allies. Requires Combat Reflexes, which helps it out anyway.
Harrying Partners - Teamwork feat, makes your Aid Another last a whole round.
E. Wpn. Prof.: Whip - 15 foot reach for Aid Another.
Along with some halfling-specific stuff and monk stuff that kicks ass:
Cautious Fighter - Increases your AC when defensively fighting by 2 dodge AC.
Blundering Defense - Grants adjacent allies +1/2 my dodge AC bonus as luck AC bonus. Nice.
Combat Expertise - Depending on who you talk to, this may stack with Cautious Fighter / Fighting defensively and thus grant more Luck AC.
Crane Style - Only take a -2 penalty to attack rolls when fighting defensively... and grants +1 more dodge AC from fighting defensively.
*Swift Aid - Not sure on this one. It lets you perform Aid Another as a swift action, but your bonus won't benefit from the Helpful Trait by RAW (it grants +1, not +2, and so there's no +2 to replace). Also, Swift Actions are pretty important in Pathfinder, and it'd get in the way of Arcane-Strike-to-Aid-Another shenanigans with any bard build.
Potentially, I'd take the following feats as well:
Nature Soul > Animal Ally > Boon Companion - Gives me an animal companion that can give flanking benefits to whoever I want to give it to. Since you can gain traits via feats, this animal companion could potentially get the Blundering Defense stuff as well.
ITEMS:
A whip - Because whips rock for this.
Benevolent weapon + armor - Grant weapon bonus to Aid Another actions (attack for weapon, AC for armor).
Ring of Tactical Precision - 11k cost ring that grants +1 to Aid Another. Pricey, so it's a buy for later in the game.
*Gloves of Arcane Striking - Not usable with every Aid Another build, but any that can grab Arcane Strike can get their Arcane Strike bonus to Aid Another actions.
Okay, all that's out of the way. Now, let's talk about Fighter (Tactician), which can be found here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/tactician)
Let's be honest: this is a really lackluster archetype for the most part. You lose a bonus feat at level 1, you don't get many cool things in return, and you're... kind'a crappy. Just, yeah. You're crappy. But then, at level 11, something magical happens:
Your Aid Another affects 1 additional ally per point of Intelligence Bonus. Meaning if you have, say, a +4 INT, you affect 5 allies, not 1.
Combine that with Harrying Partners and the ability to grant teamwork feats (which Tactician has) and suddenly things are way more interesting. Use Aid Another as a standard action, grant 5 allies +attack bonuses versus that enemy, and when you're standing adjacent to allies you not only grant the Blundering Defense AC bonus but can protect them (and any other adjacent allies) with an AoO that affects them and basically anyone else that's adjacent to you for a whole round.
The problem is that your bonus is going to be a lot lower by level 11 (well, probably 12, since you'd want a 1 level dip into Master of Many Styles anyway) than the bonuses granted by anyone that's gone the Battle Herald or Golden Legionnaire routes. Sure, you're granting huge attack and AC buffs (to people within 15 feet for attack or within 5 feet for AC), but your bonus is going to be much smaller than others, even if you go with RAW and say that Order of the Dragon's Aid Another bonus doesn't stack with Helpful (important since most Aid Another builds take at least 2 levels of Cavalier).
And frankly, how often will you be standing adjacent to enough allies to grant the AC bonus from Bodyguard to more than one person? Sure, in a melee centric party this would be really fun, but if you've got ranged characters, mages, flanking rogues, or anything of that nature, that's one less body you're likely to be able to help out. (Of course, I'd argue this is a problem with Aid Another mechanics being a martial's weak shadow of wizardry, but oh well.)
I was hoping that the above problem could be fixed with 3 levels of Cloistered Cleric (making a kickass level 15 character that can boost allies within 30 feet with Aid Another), but the text for their Aid Another related ability reads...
At 3rd level, a cloistered cleric can use the aid another action to assist an ally within 30 feet on a skill or ability check. The ally must be able to hear and understand the cleric’s instructions. For every three class levels beyond 3rd, the cloistered cleric can instruct one additional ally. If all allies are not engaged in the same task, using this ability is a full-round action rather than a standard action.
I'm assuming the bolded text means that no, you can't use it to boost someone's AC or Attack, as those aren't skill or ability checks.
Any thoughts on how to make this work? How to make it worth it? How to make it viable in comparison to the much bigger benefits granted by a Battle Herald or Golden Legionnaire?
So, I've always been a fan of Aid Another builds in Pathfinder, and I'm trying to decide whether I prefer the standard Cavalier / Bard / Battle Herald type of build, a Golden Legionnaire type of build, or the Fighter (Tactician) route.
With any of these builds, I'm looking at using most of the typical guns you see in any Aid Another build. Open the spoiler below if you're unfamiliar with them.
TRAITS:
Helpful (Halfling) - Increases the bonus from Aid Another to +4.
Battlefield Disciple - Increases the bonus by +1 for attack boosts, thus making it +5.
FEATS
Bodyguard - Aid Another as AOO to grant AC to allies. Requires Combat Reflexes, which helps it out anyway.
Harrying Partners - Teamwork feat, makes your Aid Another last a whole round.
E. Wpn. Prof.: Whip - 15 foot reach for Aid Another.
Along with some halfling-specific stuff and monk stuff that kicks ass:
Cautious Fighter - Increases your AC when defensively fighting by 2 dodge AC.
Blundering Defense - Grants adjacent allies +1/2 my dodge AC bonus as luck AC bonus. Nice.
Combat Expertise - Depending on who you talk to, this may stack with Cautious Fighter / Fighting defensively and thus grant more Luck AC.
Crane Style - Only take a -2 penalty to attack rolls when fighting defensively... and grants +1 more dodge AC from fighting defensively.
*Swift Aid - Not sure on this one. It lets you perform Aid Another as a swift action, but your bonus won't benefit from the Helpful Trait by RAW (it grants +1, not +2, and so there's no +2 to replace). Also, Swift Actions are pretty important in Pathfinder, and it'd get in the way of Arcane-Strike-to-Aid-Another shenanigans with any bard build.
Potentially, I'd take the following feats as well:
Nature Soul > Animal Ally > Boon Companion - Gives me an animal companion that can give flanking benefits to whoever I want to give it to. Since you can gain traits via feats, this animal companion could potentially get the Blundering Defense stuff as well.
ITEMS:
A whip - Because whips rock for this.
Benevolent weapon + armor - Grant weapon bonus to Aid Another actions (attack for weapon, AC for armor).
Ring of Tactical Precision - 11k cost ring that grants +1 to Aid Another. Pricey, so it's a buy for later in the game.
*Gloves of Arcane Striking - Not usable with every Aid Another build, but any that can grab Arcane Strike can get their Arcane Strike bonus to Aid Another actions.
Okay, all that's out of the way. Now, let's talk about Fighter (Tactician), which can be found here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/tactician)
Let's be honest: this is a really lackluster archetype for the most part. You lose a bonus feat at level 1, you don't get many cool things in return, and you're... kind'a crappy. Just, yeah. You're crappy. But then, at level 11, something magical happens:
Your Aid Another affects 1 additional ally per point of Intelligence Bonus. Meaning if you have, say, a +4 INT, you affect 5 allies, not 1.
Combine that with Harrying Partners and the ability to grant teamwork feats (which Tactician has) and suddenly things are way more interesting. Use Aid Another as a standard action, grant 5 allies +attack bonuses versus that enemy, and when you're standing adjacent to allies you not only grant the Blundering Defense AC bonus but can protect them (and any other adjacent allies) with an AoO that affects them and basically anyone else that's adjacent to you for a whole round.
The problem is that your bonus is going to be a lot lower by level 11 (well, probably 12, since you'd want a 1 level dip into Master of Many Styles anyway) than the bonuses granted by anyone that's gone the Battle Herald or Golden Legionnaire routes. Sure, you're granting huge attack and AC buffs (to people within 15 feet for attack or within 5 feet for AC), but your bonus is going to be much smaller than others, even if you go with RAW and say that Order of the Dragon's Aid Another bonus doesn't stack with Helpful (important since most Aid Another builds take at least 2 levels of Cavalier).
And frankly, how often will you be standing adjacent to enough allies to grant the AC bonus from Bodyguard to more than one person? Sure, in a melee centric party this would be really fun, but if you've got ranged characters, mages, flanking rogues, or anything of that nature, that's one less body you're likely to be able to help out. (Of course, I'd argue this is a problem with Aid Another mechanics being a martial's weak shadow of wizardry, but oh well.)
I was hoping that the above problem could be fixed with 3 levels of Cloistered Cleric (making a kickass level 15 character that can boost allies within 30 feet with Aid Another), but the text for their Aid Another related ability reads...
At 3rd level, a cloistered cleric can use the aid another action to assist an ally within 30 feet on a skill or ability check. The ally must be able to hear and understand the cleric’s instructions. For every three class levels beyond 3rd, the cloistered cleric can instruct one additional ally. If all allies are not engaged in the same task, using this ability is a full-round action rather than a standard action.
I'm assuming the bolded text means that no, you can't use it to boost someone's AC or Attack, as those aren't skill or ability checks.
Any thoughts on how to make this work? How to make it worth it? How to make it viable in comparison to the much bigger benefits granted by a Battle Herald or Golden Legionnaire?