Making The Morrigan

[Blackhawk748]

No, not Morrigan from Dragon Age. The Morrigan from Celtic Mythology, the Goddess of Death, War and Fate. Ironically im thinking of going Sorcerer instead of Cleric as she would be getting power from herself and i've never actually seen her portrayed in armor.

So important stuff:

All of 3.5 books are open
Dragon Mag on case by case
Goal is to have a good Diviner with the ability to kill stuff (preferably in a non flashy manner)
78 straight buy for build (max 18 before racials)
1-20 build

Note that i have never built a Diviner before, thus why there isnt even a basic build here. :smalltongue:

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't think there's any rationale for making a character build based on nothing but a name and some titles. Got anything specific to go on?

[LTwerewolf]

The name and titles actually give quite a bit because it's talking about a specific entity from a specific mythos. People do that here all the time.

The Morrigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morr%C3%ADgan)

[Albions_Angel]

Go with the Morrigan from the Iron Druid Chronicles.

Epic level deity. At least 20 levels of Druid, using the Giant Raven from Frostburn (but advanced to epic HP and DMG) as her primary form.

You want some Sorc in there. Her magic rivals Brighid. Summon Undead line is a must, quite frankly. She wont use corpses, she summons from beyond the vale. But shes also a powerful fighter and flies into a blood frenzy. Some levels of Barb wouldnt hurt.

Then there are the Yewmen, her personal, plant based soldiers. Refluffed treants to make them medium would work. Male versions of Dryads too.

So you are looking at either Druid 20/Sorc 20/Barb 20 for a powerful deity, with roughly 20-30 divine ranks, OR Druid 20/Sorc X/Barb 20-X with 10-20 divine ranks for a more manageable Morrigan.

The pantheon of my world is the one from the Iron Druid Chronicles, so Morrigan, Brighid, the 3 brothers, Mannanon, Fand, Bres and Aengus Og are all in there.

EDIT: just saw that you want a playable morrigan. Um. Well. Druid 10/Battle Sorc 5/Barb 5? Someone better than me can play with those numbers to hit the right class features but thats about the feel of her.

[Blackhawk748]

You've given me an idea, I could use Arcane Hierophant and go Druid/Sorc and have all the spells!

[Blackhawk748]

Ok heres my build as of now

Lesser Aasimar Druid 3/Sorcerer 2/Arcane Hierophant 10
Str:10
Dex:10
Con:10
Int:12
Wis:20
Cha:20

Skills: Knowledge Nature, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge Religion (only for 5 ranks), Listen, Spellcraft

Feats:
1st Versatile Spellcaster Flaw: Heighten Spell, Spell Focus (Divination)
3rd:Arcane Disciple (Destiny)
6th: Natural Spell
9th:Insightful Divination
12th:Extend Spell
15th:???
18th:???


Druid
1st: Entangle (cuz duh), Cloudburst, Wall of Smoke
2nd: Listening Lorecall, Summon Swarm, Creeping Cold
3rd: Forestfold
4th: Scrying
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
Sorcerer
1st: Shield, Magic Missile, Summon Undead 1
2nd: Chain of Eyes, Summon Swarm, Summon Undead 2
3rd: Clairvoyance, Unluck, Vampiric Touch, Summon Undead 3
4th Summon Undead 4, Bestow Curse
5th Summon Undead 5
6th Warp Destiny
7th
8th Greater Bestow Curse

So i have a very eclectic mix of spells here. Any Druid Divination spells im missing, cuz that side looks a tad...empty

[Pyromancer999]

Ok heres my build as of now

Lesser Aasimar Druid 3/Sorcerer 2/Arcane Hierophant 10
Str:10
Dex:10
Con:10
Int:12
Wis:20
Cha:20

Skills: Knowledge Nature, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge Religion (only for 5 ranks), Listen, Spellcraft

Feats:
1st Versatile Spellcaster Flaw: Heighten Spell, Spell Focus (Divination)
3rd:Arcane Disciple (Destiny)
6th: Natural Spell
9th:Insightful Divination
12th:Extend Spell
15th:???
18th:???


Druid
1st: Entangle (cuz duh), Cloudburst, Wall of Smoke
2nd: Listening Lorecall, Summon Swarm, Creeping Cold
3rd: Forestfold
4th: Scrying
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
Sorcerer
1st: Shield, Magic Missile, Summon Undead 1
2nd: Chain of Eyes, Summon Swarm, Summon Undead 2
3rd: Clairvoyance, Unluck, Vampiric Touch, Summon Undead 3
4th Summon Undead 4, Bestow Curse
5th Summon Undead 5
6th Warp Destiny
7th
8th Greater Bestow Curse

So i have a very eclectic mix of spells here. Any Druid Divination spells im missing, cuz that side looks a tad...empty

Seems like Sorcerer 1/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Arcane Hierophant 10 would be a better build. Take Precocious Apprentice to qualify for Mystic Theurge early. Then for the last five levels, just go Mystic Theurge if spellcasting is all you care about. If you want Dual 9ths, swap out Sorcerer for Wizard. End up with 9th level druid spells and 8th level sorcerer spells.

However, if you don't care about dual 9ths(or at all about 9ths, if you stick with Sorcerer), another build presents itself: Same as previous, but substitute levels in Mystic Theurge for Geomancer. Why, even though it only advances the spellcasting of one class each level? For fluff reasons. For one, Spell Versatility allows you to mix and match spellcasting parameters between your classes for their spells, as long as the spell level is your Geomancer class level -1. So, you can cast Druid spells with Charisma-based DCs, and also be able to cast Sorcerer spells with no chance of arcane spell failure. Also lets you choose between an arcane spell component or divine focus for a spell if it has both. Additionally, drifts can be fluffed as needed, and later ones get you goodies like Flight and Rage(9th and 7th levels respectively). If you advance Sorcerer all levels, you'll have 8th level sorcerer spells and 7th level Druid spells. Advance Druid all levels, you get 9th level Druid spells and 5th level Sorcerer Spells, which does allow Spell Versatility to apply to all your Sorcerer spells.

You can also just substitute two levels of Mystic Theurge for Geomancer to use for lower level spells if you don't care about getting 9th level Druid spells until 20th level.

Overall Build works even better if you can somehow get the skills to go into Fohlucan Lyrist instead of Mystic Theurge or Arcane Hierophant for a lot of levels, as it lifts the restriction on metal armor to light, stacks with Bardic Knowledge, Full BAB, and also advances divine and arcane spellcasting.

Edit: Actually, there's a few ways you could make that work:

1) Bard 1(with Precocious Apprentice)/Rogue 2/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 4/Fohlucan Lyrist 10. Gets 15th level Bard Casting(5th level spells) and 17th level Druid spellcasting(9th). Skill points can be made to go further by being Changeling and taking 1st substitution level(10+Int instead of 8 + Int) and Able Learner feat for your first level feat. Does require at least a positive Int.

1a)At 13th level, pause Fohlucan Lyrist progression to take a level in Sublime Chord, then progress from there. That will make you end up with 8th
spells that are Charisma-based.

1b) An honestly much simpler version of this build is Rogue 2/Bard 1/Druid 7/Fohlucan Lyrist 10. Gets you 9th level Druid spells and 4th level Bard spells. Changeling Rogue makes this even better.

2)Illumian Factotum 1/Druid 6/Loredelver 3/Fohlucan Lyrist 10. Gets 16th level Druid casting(8th level spells) or 18th level(9th spells) if your DM lets Druid count. Get Southern Magician feat at 6th to qualify for Loredelver, casting a 3rd level Druid divination spell as arcane(like Circle Dance or Crown of Clarity). Get Able Learner at 1st level to ease skill prerequisites. Does require high Int to get all skills needed.

3) Similar to combination of 1 and 2: Illumian Wizard 1(with Precocious Apprentice)/Rogue 2/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 4/Loredelver 1/Sublime Chord 1/Fohlucan Lyrist 8. Gets you 15th level Druid casting(8th level spells) and just barely 9th level Charisma-based spellcasting, with some lower-level Int-based spellcasting. Does require you to pump up your Int score a bit. Would recommend re-allocating some points(if using point-buy) to Int if possible. You'll need at least a 13 to cast your spells, so may as well make it a 14 if you can, or 12-13 then use your 4th level ability boost on that.
3a) As above, but substitute 1 level of Fohlucan Lyrist with Sublime Chord(qualifying for that same way you, and progress that with Fohlucan Lyrist for dual 9ths(or more likely, 8th level Druid spells and 9th level spells from Sublime Chord). Does require a much larger Int due to additional skill prerequisites.
3b)Can just substitute the level of Loredelver for Bard 1 if that ends up making it easier to meet skill requirements/is just more to your fancy.



Also for Druid Divination Spells:

1st) Omen of Peril, Speak with Animals

2nd) Healing Lorecall, Wild Instincts

3rd) Crown of Clarity, Circle Dance

6th) Stone Tell

9th) Foresight

[Albions_Angel]

While you are making a fantastic Divine/Arcane caster there, you are missing a key aspect of the Morrigan. Sure, hers is the only magic that can rival Brighids, but what makes her truly special is her abilities in combat. You have some druid in there, great, wildshape, but shes just as adept with a sword as she is as the Battle Crow. By sticking some Battle Sorc in there, you get some decent combat advancement in human form. And Barb just makes that stronger. Ranger could work too, because the Morrigan is also Chooser of the Slain. Think Banshee. She literally chooses who will die. Shes not Death, just coming to collect. She has an active role. Ranger would allow her favored enemy which would simulate her choosing someone. Im sure there are a couple of spells that do the same as well.

She wants to be a Druid first, and then almost a Beatstick second, with the spell casting making up a final component. Otherwise you end up with another member of the Tuatha de Dannan.

The job here isnt to break the game with powerful spellcasting, its to simulate the most fearsome member of the Irish pantheon, information on whom is surprisingly scarce. Like I said before, the best representation I have found of her (in trying to replicate the Irish pantheon for my own game) was that in the Iron Druid Chronicles. She only uses magic once in the whole series, to heal someones ear during a sex-magic ritual. Its hinted that shes a powerful caster and that Brighid is scared of her, but its her fighting ability and her Battle Crow form that is most heavily emphasized.

The Morrigan takes on a group of 5 gods at once, killing one instantly and scaring the others into submission.

The Morrigan strolls naked into Brighid's court holding a sword, casual as you like, right after Brighid has made a specific set of Full Plate to stop said sword, which is magically enchanted to cut through any armor.

The Morrigan, who is not an immortal god (not all gods are) goes up against Diana and Artemis, the two goddesses of the Olympian hunt, holding them off for over an hour and wounding them badly enough that they were unable to pursue their target for days. Given that the Olympians can regenerate, regrow limbs, and if utterly destroyed just reform on Olympus, that should give you some ideas.

The Morrigan died when, and only when, she chose herself to be slain, as she realised she could not change her nature because of the power Belief had on her, and so she could never express the love she felt for people.

The Morrigan HAD FUN on the battlefields of WWI and WWII, killing thousands.

Please, please dont take that away from her. Her skill with a sword is paramount to her persona, and her visage as the Battle Crow (just refluff successively more powerful birds when your Wildshape HD goes up) is just as important. Frankly you could even leave the spell casting as nothing but fluff and she would still work.

[Pyromancer999]

While you are making a fantastic Divine/Arcane caster there, you are missing a key aspect of the Morrigan. Sure, hers is the only magic that can rival Brighids, but what makes her truly special is her abilities in combat. You have some druid in there, great, wildshape, but shes just as adept with a sword as she is as the Battle Crow. By sticking some Battle Sorc in there, you get some decent combat advancement in human form. And Barb just makes that stronger. Ranger could work too, because the Morrigan is also Chooser of the Slain. Think Banshee. She literally chooses who will die. Shes not Death, just coming to collect. She has an active role. Ranger would allow her favored enemy which would simulate her choosing someone. Im sure there are a couple of spells that do the same as well.

She wants to be a Druid first, and then almost a Beatstick second, with the spell casting making up a final component. Otherwise you end up with another member of the Tuatha de Dannan.

The job here isnt to break the game with powerful spellcasting, its to simulate the most fearsome member of the Irish pantheon, information on whom is surprisingly scarce. Like I said before, the best representation I have found of her (in trying to replicate the Irish pantheon for my own game) was that in the Iron Druid Chronicles. She only uses magic once in the whole series, to heal someones ear during a sex-magic ritual. Its hinted that shes a powerful caster and that Brighid is scared of her, but its her fighting ability and her Battle Crow form that is most heavily emphasized.

The Morrigan takes on a group of 5 gods at once, killing one instantly and scaring the others into submission.

The Morrigan strolls naked into Brighid's court holding a sword, casual as you like, right after Brighid has made a specific set of Full Plate to stop said sword, which is magically enchanted to cut through any armor.

The Morrigan, who is not an immortal god (not all gods are) goes up against Diana and Artemis, the two goddesses of the Olympian hunt, holding them off for over an hour and wounding them badly enough that they were unable to pursue their target for days. Given that the Olympians can regenerate, regrow limbs, and if utterly destroyed just reform on Olympus, that should give you some ideas.

The Morrigan died when, and only when, she chose herself to be slain, as she realised she could not change her nature because of the power Belief had on her, and so she could never express the love she felt for people.

The Morrigan HAD FUN on the battlefields of WWI and WWII, killing thousands.

Please, please dont take that away from her. Her skill with a sword is paramount to her persona, and her visage as the Battle Crow (just refluff successively more powerful birds when your Wildshape HD goes up) is just as important. Frankly you could even leave the spell casting as nothing but fluff and she would still work.


As pointed out earlier, it is near impossible to fully emulate a goddess without going Epic levels at least, or at best with Gestalt. The build mentioned(more precisely, the first build) gets 9th level Druid spells and +16 BAB, even if it's not necessarily plentiful on hit points. It also gets Wildshape, which it can use to turn into Small to Medium-sized crow(which yes, may have to be a re-fluffed version of a larger bird). Additionally, one can take the Druidic Avenger variant and ditch the Animal Companion(which will not scale), to get Rage. So the build is fully capable of using a sword if one likes to good effect, but does get the benefits of the highest-level Druid spellcasting. Another note is that if one wishes to be more martial, if you can still swing the skill points, one could substitute Monk 2 for Rogue 2, which does get Wisdom to unarmored AC and can get some bonus feats in there.

Additionally, the original poster noted several high-level spells they would like to make use of, and I did my best to get them to said levels.

Also, the original poster said that they wanted to emulate the one of Celtic Mythology, which is not the same as the Morrigan that appears in the Iron Druid Chronicles, even if the original served as a base for her. From what I have read of Celtic Mythology, while a Goddess of War in one aspect, she does appear more in a frightful/magic user sense(Gestalt could allow for some levels in Dread Witch, but then, this is not Gestalt) on the battlefield. She does not fight in crow form in mythology to my knowledge. She certainly does not appear on the fields of WWI and WWII, nor fight gods of Greek mythology, and no build pre-30 is close to tangoing with the gods without the absurdest of cheese.

If you personally would like something more akin to that of the one in Iron Druid Chronicles, then you can propose a build(you have, which is not a bad druid) that could potentially emulate that. Which, if ignoring the Arcane side of things, could just be straight Druidic Avenger 20, with levels of Nature's Warrior mixed in for buffed up crow form(Can still get full casting, but stopping at 3 levels of that still allows for Tireless Rage). Still gets BAB +16, though. You could also just do a re-fluffed Ruby Knight Vindicator with X levels of Crusader and Y levels of Druid if you are simply looking to be Martial(Crusader 4/Druid 5/Sacred Exorcist 1(for Turn/Rebuke)/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 gets +18 BAB and 15th level Druid spellcasting(8th)). These are also just suggestions, as I cannot perfectly recreate the Morrigan you desire without epic levels.

The point is that I made it to be as closely tailored to the actual mythology as possible for a 20th level build, as per the original poster's request. It was not made to emulate the one from the Iron Druid Chronicles, as much as you would desire it to be.