Which class would you choose?

[Spore]

Party is set up like following (minor tweaks):

Ki Warrior Barbarian (double homebrew) https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Path_of_the_Ki_Warrior_(5e_Archetype)
Vengeance Paladin
Light Cleric
Thief Rogue

The setting is like if you'd imagine Eberron after heavy industrialization or Shadowrun without the sudden appearance of magic. We play in what is basically Sharn in the ground (the city's flyng magic was dispelled resulting in a large catastrophe that was centuries ago). Spellcasters are distrusted (yes, even Paladins). We start in the slums and will probably fight against the reigning mobster boss.

[lunaticfringe]

A wizard or sorcerer probably seems like the party lacks arcane options.

[Socratov]

Lore Bard. No doubt. You've got the staying power in front, you've got the nova, now all you guysneed is a way to boost everyone's capabilities. Ergo, take lore bard, you won't be disappointed.

[JAL_1138]

Wizard or Sorceror fills in the most needed niche balance-wise (AoE blaster). But with the "spellcasters are distrusted" fluff, maybe consider a Lore Bard. It's definitely not as optimal for the party in combat since their offensive capability is limited (much more at low level; by later levels they can do okay), but a bard has the skillmonkey utility to get a lot done without magic, and to persuade people to trust them when they do need to cast spells. They're also good for rallying the slum denizens against the mob, or getting people the mob has scared into obedience to help the party. Then again, the Thief can do all that "face" work too, given their own fantastic skill proficiencies. The Light Cleric covers a little bit of the blaster niche the bard will be lacking in at low levels, but with both a cleric and a pally you don't really need more healing...

[edit: ninja'd]

Tough call. Wizard, Sorc, or Bard though. Some variety of arcane caster.

[Blacky the Blackball]

You don't say anything about particular races having problems, so given the distrust of magic I'd go for a Dragonborn Sorcerer (dragon-blooded with the dragon type that matches your dragonborn sub-race).

For the first couple of levels you can get by hiding your sorcerous nature and entering melee (and casting the occasional Burning Hands or something like that passing it off as a breath weapon to those who weren't closely watching), and then when you hit level three you can pick up the Subtle Spell metamagic to hide your casting completely.

That could be a fun character, especially if you specialise in spells that don't have a visible effect.

[JumboWheat01]

Even with the note that spell casters are distrusted, I'd like to say a Wizard, particularly an Abjurer. Abjurer's are not about the big flash or overly obvious spells, they're about denying other magics and dispelling or countering them. A spell caster distrusting spell caster, if you will.

If races aren't an issue, naturally, a Mountain Dwarf would work amazing for this (because who distrusts magic as much as a dwarf,) plus it gives you some nice armor and weapon abilities, letting you keep your magic for when it is needed.

[Socratov]

Wizard or Sorceror fills in the most needed niche balance-wise (AoE blaster). But with the "spellcasters are distrusted" fluff, maybe consider a Lore Bard. It's definitely not as optimal for the party in combat since their offensive capability is limited (much more at low level; by later levels they can do okay), but a bard has the skillmonkey utility to get a lot done without magic, and to persuade people to trust them when they do need to cast spells. They're also good for rallying the slum denizens against the mob, or getting people the mob has scared into obedience to help the party. Then again, the Thief can do all that "face" work too, given their own fantastic skill proficiencies. The Light Cleric covers a little bit of the blaster niche the bard will be lacking in at low levels, but with both a cleric and a pally you don't really need more healing...

[edit: ninja'd]

Tough call. Wizard, Sorc, or Bard though. Some variety of arcane caster.

why would they need blasting if they have a vengeance pally? They have all the burst damage they need with the vengeance pally and the rogue (with sneak attack). What they need are enabelers and debuffers, to which the lore bard reigns supreme pretty much (remember cutting words? Setting up failure for enemies is a great thing. )

[JAL_1138]

why would they need blasting if they have a vengeance pally? They have all the burst damage they need with the vengeance pally and the rogue (with sneak attack). What they need are enabelers and debuffers, to which the lore bard reigns supreme pretty much (remember cutting words? Setting up failure for enemies is a great thing. )

Area of effect. Playing a Vengeance Pally now, at level 6, in a party with nobody who has significant AoE capabilities, the ability to do a crapload of damage to a single enemy does not help much when being swarmed by half-a-dozen or more tough-ish mooks. An Evoker wizard who can deal AoE without friendly fire would be worth their weight in gold to that party.

But I don't dispute the usefulness of a Lore bard, who has the buff/debuff ability, great skill proficiencies, Cutting Words, extra healing, and some AoE ability that can be shored up effectively by the Light Cleric.

[Socratov]

Area of effect. Playing a Vengeance Pally now, at level 6, in a party with nobody who has significant AoE capabilities, the ability to do a crapload of damage to a single enemy does not help much when being swarmed by half-a-dozen or more tough-ish mooks. An Evoker wizard who can deal AoE without friendly fire would be worth their weight in gold to that party.

But I don't dispute the usefulness of a Lore bard, who has the buff/debuff ability, great skill proficiencies, Cutting Words, extra healing, and some AoE ability that can be shored up effectively by the Light Cleric.

Besides, the lore bard can always steal fireball or somesuch using lvl 6 or lvl 10 magical secrets and you can aoe disable as well

[JAL_1138]

Besides, the lore bard can always steal fireball or somesuch using lvl 6 or lvl 10 magical secrets and you can aoe disable as well

Hypnotic Pattern is one of my favorite spells to use as a bard. It's really fantastic. Save vs incapacitated for a minute straight with no "save at end of turn" or whatever to break it.

And the skill aspect for a Lore makes them a really strong choice for a party that kinda has trouble with casters being viewed suspiciously. They can help the rogue negotiate well with people and can solve a lot of problems with skills rather than spellcasting.

[CursedRhubarb]

A half-elf fey tomelock could be fun. Patron could be an ancestor and they make use of the Mask of Many Faces invocation so that so one ever sees their true face since casters aren't trusted.
Would give great CC and utility to the party as well as one that can fit in either in melee or ranged as needed.

[JumboWheat01]

A half-elf fey tomelock could be fun. Patron could be an ancestor and they make use of the Mask of Many Faces invocation so that so one ever sees their true face since casters aren't trusted.
Would give great CC and utility to the party as well as one that can fit in either in melee or ranged as needed.

Oh, that's just a tasty idea. May need to draw up a character myself for something like that.

[Citan]

Hi OP!

I'd second the Sorcerer option, because the Subtle metamagic is really nice. Although it will force you to manage in a careful way your resources...

OR, suggest a tiny houserule to the DM to allow a Lore Bard, about how the Bard actually spellcasts.
Consider that the Bard can actually hide the actual magic weaves through the movements his hands and fingers do when playing an instrument, although it requires a very intense focus.

As such, you would be allowed to cast spell normally but, you could also try to dissimulate your cast for spells having only somatic (and verbal) components through music (instrument and voice).
Roll a 1d10 dice.
For a 1st level spell, as long as you roll all but 1, you succeed in hiding the cast.
For a 2nd level spell, anything but 1-2.
For a 3rd level spell, anything but 1-2-3.
Etc...
If you fail, the spell is cast normally and everyone realized 1) you cast some magic 2) you tried to hide it.

Should help alleviate some use of spells at the start and create tenseful situations when you just cannot afford to fail. ;)
(If you find the rolls too easy, just add +1 to the minimum every level).

[Spore]

Thanks for all the entries so far. I was kind of expecting people to shout "arcane" but to my surprise you people have gone into detail. Wizard and Sorcerer feel too blunt in a world where everyone just needs to point in your way and tell a few lies to get you into trouble. Bard was definitely also one of my ideas (along with a Shifter Ranger, a Warlock and even an Abjurer). I like playing jack of all trades but I honestly wished the bard would suggest other fluff than music. I was pointing out that my bard could love to cook and tell stories over the lunch/brunch/etc. and heal the minds of people with that kind of layback attitude but my DM wants to enforce the music fluff.

As far as the fluff of our starting area and slum goes I feel like the mob boss has broken the spirits of the people. We start as unimportant guys (though 3rd level) in a militia and we probably get chosen for important missions because we are the spellcasters (and the rogue has connections, the barbarian's ki is considered "casting" too).

[JAL_1138]

Thanks for all the entries so far. I was kind of expecting people to shout "arcane" but to my surprise you people have gone into detail. Wizard and Sorcerer feel too blunt in a world where everyone just needs to point in your way and tell a few lies to get you into trouble. Bard was definitely also one of my ideas (along with a Shifter Ranger, a Warlock and even an Abjurer). I like playing jack of all trades but I honestly wished the bard would suggest other fluff than music. I was pointing out that my bard could love to cook and tell stories over the lunch/brunch/etc. and heal the minds of people with that kind of layback attitude but my DM wants to enforce the music fluff.

As far as the fluff of our starting area and slum goes I feel like the mob boss has broken the spirits of the people. We start as unimportant guys (though 3rd level) in a militia and we probably get chosen for important missions because we are the spellcasters (and the rogue has connections, the barbarian's ki is considered "casting" too).

Technically the 5e bard can cast with a component pouch instead of an instrument in combat. Only Song of Rest (and maybe Countercharm) is really fluffed as music in the book (and even then it's not ironclad in the text). That would be a way to cut down on the amount of singing needed.

[Joe the Rat]

The Storyteller is an oft-discussed Bard concept, and perfectly valid. It's just about seeing if you can trade a musical instrument for something else...
Unless you are big into classical education, in which case you should know how to play an instrument or two - most likely a keyboard of some kind.

Using drums as communications is a thing, though it's less relevant in a post magictechnal world. I do like the "Stew of Rest" idea.


Me, I'd play renegade rulebreaking evil arcanist to the hilt, with a friendly and subtle (but not Subtle) GOO Warlock. Do a little quiet mindbending - it's between you and the guy that just ran off screaming for some reason.

[Spore]

Technically the 5e bard can cast with a component pouch instead of an instrument in combat. Only Song of Rest (and maybe Countercharm) is really fluffed as music in the book (and even then it's not ironclad in the text). That would be a way to cut down on the amount of singing needed.

That is my problem. I am not even that against music (just singing). But I hate it when my stubborn GM (who is a player in other games) gets what he wants because re refuses to move an inch. This is also about two man-babies having an argument. I said a Bard is perfectly reasonable and doable without music. If he doesnt accept the character as is I am not changing the fluff to meet the non permutable crunch.


Me, I'd play renegade rulebreaking evil arcanist to the hilt, with a friendly and subtle (but not Subtle) GOO Warlock.

Sounds fun but my DM wants characters with heroic potential (i.e. for good). Don't get me wrong. I have toyed with an Cultist of GoO before. But I think an (unwilling) Dark One Warlock fits much better here. They have blasts, too. They lack the illusionist social aspect of Fey Warlocks but trying to get help form the ONE Paladin and one of few good priests available in the slums is a pretty good reason to adventure together.

And I feel like a white knight-ish character concept is muddied down with the usual murder-hoboing one does in D&D.