throwing daggers and darts in same turn?

[Haydensan]

Reading a thread on the sage advice for this september about throwing a dagger and recalling it with EK bound weapon got me thinking about a build that involves this sort of playstyle.

So far from a quick bit of reading and thinking ive come up with and was wondering if it works/is allowed.

Assuming extra attack and duel wielding feat:
1. PC starts holding two daggers.
2. Takes attack action: throws one dagger. now has free hand and one dagger

Now heres where im confused whether this is allowed or not:

3. with the PC's extra attack: With free hand throws dart (presumably strapped to belt or something).
does this count for his object interaction to grab the dart from his belt (or wherever its strapped to) or not? my initial thought was no but then realised darts dont have the ammunition property hence the confusion.

4. As bonus action: throws the second dagger that was originally being held during 1.
another point of possible contention, is this allowed? My initial thought is yes as per TWF rules but clarification would be nice

5. both hands are empty.
6. Draw 2 daggers as per duel wielder feat with object interaction. Obviously this is only allowed if the object interaction was used by the dart..
7. start next turn as per 1.

So if this does work per RAW, how would you optimise it or would you go a different approach for a dagger/dart build?
Or if you disagree and it doesnt work by RAW, would you allow it at your table as RAF?

Thanks for any replies in advance :smallsmile:

EDIT: a possible other start would be two be initially holding two darts. the only loss i see from this is not benefiting from the +1 AC that duel wielder gives for holding two melee weapons.

[DivisibleByZero]

As stated in another thread about a similar question:
I allow weapons with both the Light and Thrown properties (and darts, obviously) as if they had the Ammunition property with regard to drawing them to throw.

This allows throwing builds to be viable, but limits them to d6 weapons or less (disallowing javelins and the like) without breaking anything, in a way that the core rules do not (by the RAW).

It's an houserule, but it's an elegant one that I believe fits with the intent of light thrown weapons.

[SharkForce]

- drawing a dart does take your object interaction
- you can throw with your off hand weapon. i believe you can even do so with TWF fighting (that is, if you want you can make two attacks with your main hand and throw your off hand as a bonus action, though it won't get attribute bonus to damage by default)
- TWF feat would allow you to draw two daggers for throwing as well.

that said, most DMs i've seen will allow darts to be drawn and thrown as often as you have attacks. it's not like they're going to replace bows any time soon from an optimization perspective.

[Haydensan]

Thanks for the replies.

And yeah its more of a flavour thing than looking to output incredible damage. Just trying not to suck while having said flavour :smallsmile:

So trying to build a character like this, ideally would have TWF style and duel wielder. Anything else people can think of? Maybe rogue for some SA die?

[lunaticfringe]

Yes Rogue is Good. My Assassin would throw the occasional dagger at something attacking an ally while wielding his Shortsword. I would usually add SA to the dagger throw. You will feel like a Boss when you kill a mook you are fighting & a mook the Cleric is fighting on the same turn. Wasn't even a TWF.

[SharkForce]

iirc, darts are a monk weapon (presumably because they're the closest thing to shurikens). daggers definitely are 100%

so, a bunch of monk levels could let you do more damage with darts. as an added benefit, they can also let you catch and throw daggers, darts, arrows, bolts, etc back at people who try to use them on you. edit: and, per the most recent sage advice, no matter what you catch and throw back, it counts as a monk weapon so you can use your dex modifier.

[Christian]

Darts are simple ranged weapons; only simple melee weapons and shortswords are monk weapons. So no bonus damage with darts. (Except, of course, for a dart that someone just threw at you, that you caught and instantly threw back. Naturally. :smallconfused: )

[Plaguescarred]

So far from a quick bit of reading and thinking ive come up with and was wondering if it works/is allowed.

Assuming extra attack and duel wielding feat:
1. PC starts holding two daggers.
2. Takes attack action: throws one dagger. now has free hand and one dagger

Now heres where im confused whether this is allowed or not:

3. with the PC's extra attack: With free hand throws dart (presumably strapped to belt or something).
does this count for his object interaction to grab the dart from his belt (or wherever its strapped to) or not? my initial thought was no but then realised darts dont have the ammunition property hence the confusion.

4. As bonus action: throws the second dagger that was originally being held during 1.
another point of possible contention, is this allowed? My initial thought is yes as per TWF rules but clarification would be nice

5. both hands are empty.
6. Draw 2 daggers as per duel wielder feat with object interaction. Obviously this is only allowed if the object interaction was used by the dart..
7. start next turn as per 1.

So if this does work per RAW, how would you optimise it or would you go a different approach for a dagger/dart build?
Or if you disagree and it doesnt work by RAW, would you allow it at your table as RAF?RAW it would not work as you're drawing 3 items for free when you should only be drawing two for free with Dual Welder. ( dart, dagger, dagger) The last dagger would require an action to draw.

I would not allow it as its too many item interactions interaction for free.

[SharkForce]

RAW it would not work as you're drawing 3 items for free when you should only be drawing two for free with Dual Welder. ( dart, dagger, dagger) The last dagger would require an action to draw.

I would not allow it as its too many item interactions interaction for free.

both hands are full to start off.

and yeah... apparently darts are not monk weapons. which seems weird. they're proficient with them. and 10 darts are a part of the monk's non-optional starting gear. their only advantage over daggers is their lower weight and cost, so there's no real mechanical reason to disallow it. and as i said, they make by far the most sense in terms of closest equivalent to shurikens (i mean, you certainly wouldn't use a shuriken in melee combat like you would use a dagger). it just feels really weird that it wouldn't be a monk weapon.