Drow worshipping lolth

[Doomwhispo]

I'm running pota. We have a relatively good aligned party. One of the members is a drow. I was already not so happy with his choice. In the last session he declared that he worships the Goddess lolth. I said that it isn't possible for him to worship that evil god and still be working with the rest of the group. Yet he insists that his character worships lolth. What should I do?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Yet he insists that his character worships lolth. What should I do?

Have the spider queen start making demands on him. She's very hands-on like that.

And if he fails her, turn him into a drider (and an NPC). :smalltongue:

[DizzyWood]

Hmm they could worship Lolth but be part of a heretical cult. At one point in time Lolth was actually another goddess Araushnee. Look her up on the wiki.. I THINK she was some flavor of neutral, so he could worship the parts of Lolth that are still Araushnee. Maybe his cult is involved in a plot resurrect/free this aspect of Lolth and return her to power. Might be some fun roll play.
Additionally if his goals are aligned with the rest of the party you could play it as an uneasy alliance kind of thing. My party has an evil warlock in it and the rest of the group are strongly good. However this warlocks evil is more of a fight the power kind of evil and some of her views mesh with our pallys desire to fight tyranny and my sorcerer's general dislike of anyone in charge who isn't him. People of different alignments can work together and be friends. Sure it can lead to difficult conversations and tense moments but with some good RP it can work.

[Doomwhispo]

Nope he worships lolth, not Aurashnee. So your saying it doesn't matter I should just let it play out?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Nope he worships lolth, not Aurashnee. So your saying it doesn't matter I should just let it play out?

Well there's no reason he can't worship Lolth while claiming to be a good person. Sooner or later those things are going to come into conflict though.

[JeenLeen]

At least in earlier versions of D&D (3.5, I think), it was mentioned that some orcs worship Gruumish, the CE god of orcs, but are not themselves evil. It is that that is their racial patron and a god of war, focusing on tribe and war over alignment.

Such could be possible with Lloth. I can't see a really devout drow worshipping Lloth and not being evil, but I could see someone who is a devotee but not a faithful CE person.

EDIT: also, although it takes a good RPer and good group dynamics, it is possible for an evil PC to work alongside good, as long as the evil doesn't offend the PCs, he's willing to be friends and act better to not tick off his friends, stuff like that. It's hard, though, and probably best avoided. But a DM does have a right to say no evil PCs, and if worshipping Lloth does make him evil (but, as stated above, I don't think that's necessarily the case), then, yeah, conflict. Maybe ask what exactly his being a worshipper entails.

[DizzyWood]

Nope he worships lolth, not Aurashnee. So your saying it doesn't matter I should just let it play out?

In that case is HE evil... that is important to know. If he is not evil then he needs to worship her not as a goddess of evil spiders and torture and nasty bad times but as the goddess of the Drow patron of his race guardian of his people.

Gods a big huge things and are never the same thing to everyone. Some people will say oh no if he worships Lolth then he has to do something bad at some point and Lolth will punish him blah blah blah. While I agree that at some table this can and should be the outcome it is not always the case.
What is his back story? Why is he with the party if they have different views? If YOU as the DM do not want to make it a problem it then don't. It might take some convoluted logic to get there but I have seen much worse. Just ask me about the illiterate half orc trans-gendered barbarian 3/ lore bard 4 sometime! That took us a while to make work for the player and it was FUN!!!
Getting crazy in a game can be great. but YMMV

[Willie the Duck]

I'm running pota. We have a relatively good aligned party. One of the members is a drow. I was already not so happy with his choice. In the last session he declared that he worships the Goddess lolth. I said that it isn't possible for him to worship that evil god and still be working with the rest of the group. Yet he insists that his character worships lolth. What should I do?

Well, frankly, It's refreshing to see a player choose a race and then roleplay them, instead of just choose the race for their stat bonuses and other benefits. However, the player has chosen a path that is in fact rather difficult for you.

First of all, we have to know how you and your group want to play this game. The 5e material doesn't really define Lolth or the drow who follow her as any more evil or nefarious than, say, Gruumsh and the orcs that follow him. Saying that you worship her as your racial patron deity and simply fudge and handwave and tap-dance around her evil doctrines is something that could be accomplished within the 5e rules. In earlier editions (1e and 2e AD&D in particular), Lolth was defined as super-evil (over the top. cartoon villain. boiled babies as appetizers. don't just kick the dog, shoot it and defile the corpse). Depending on how you want to interpret drow and Lolth, having a non-evil character saying they worship her could fall anywhere from entirely plausible to outright nonsensical.

Second thought, is your player playing an evil character? That's conceivably possible, as long as they define themselves as "selfish and having no internal moral impulse, but able to conform to established social norms because they don't want to suffer negative consequences."

Third thought, does your character's drow only think they worship Lolth (or more accurately, worship Lolth based on faulty assumptions of what her religion represents)?

[Maxilian]

He can easily believe in an evil God and worship it without being evil, maybe he believe that the perfect society is the one where we are all blessed by Lloth (A society of Driders -I know that driders are normally seeing as a curse though -or punishment-)

[CursedRhubarb]

Well as a male he would have to be careful since Loth is rather ani-male and a LG female sworn to slay her would be more likely to be viewed favorably than even a CE drow male that is completely loyal and devoted to her.
So long as he is aware of that and if he does anything that Loth could perceive as an affront or in disfavrable light he could find himself in her disfavor which, for male drow, tend to mean stripped of all powers and likely life as a drider.

[Maxilian]

Well as a male he would have to be careful since Loth is rather ani-male and a LG female sworn to slay her would be more likely to be viewed favorably than even a CE drow male that is completely loyal and devoted to her.
So long as he is aware of that and if he does anything that Loth could perceive as an affront or in disfavrable light he could find himself in her disfavor which, for male drow, tend to mean stripped of all powers and likely life as a drider.

He may favor female because of that, and he may seen himself as a servant of his matron (and maybe see female drows as superior than male drows, but male drows are still superior than any other cause... they are still drows).

Note: Is irrelevant how Lloth sees him, in the end, a pawn is a pawn. (She may allow him somethings, not because he has his favor, but he's a pawn that have not finished its mision)

[lunaticfringe]

He is a Drow. He was culturally indoctrinated to worship Lloth. Have a divine caster ask him about his beliefs and constantly engage him in spirited Philosophical debate. Question him in character about why he isn't with other Drow? Has not Lloth forsaken him? What would you do if your friend joined a Dangerous Cult? God's don't interfere officially anymore, I don't see why this is an issue as long as he is working with the party. Pretty sure my boss is Evil, we get along ok.

[Temperjoke]

Why is the worship of a god, even an evil god, a problem? Has he made it a problem with the party? Perhaps he's internally conflicted regarding it, disliking the priestesses and the matrons, angry that he's powerless to do anything about it because he was born a male? If he's not actively causing problems with the other PCs, then it's not really a problem. If ICly, it's causing trouble, then let the other characters handle it ICly.

Did you make any rules regarding character creation? If this was clearly a rule that was broken, that's one thing, but if there were no ground rules, then you may just be seeing a problem where there isn't one.

[Doomwhispo]

Why is the worship of a god, even an evil god, a problem? Has he made it a problem with the party? Perhaps he's internally conflicted regarding it, disliking the priestesses and the matrons, angry that he's powerless to do anything about it because he was born a male? If he's not actively causing problems with the other PCs, then it's not really a problem. If ICly, it's causing trouble, then let the other characters handle it ICly.

Did you make any rules regarding character creation? If this was clearly a rule that was broken, that's one thing, but if there were no ground rules, then you may just be seeing a problem where there isn't one.

Yeah that's what I'm gonna do, just see how it plays out. I was just worried since most of the party is good and are basically out to save the world, that someone worshipping an evil god was gonna be a problem. But I'll let the group handle it. I'll just see how it goes...

[NecroDancer]

He could be doing a "enemy of my enemy is my friend"

[DireSickFish]

If he isn't Evil and is worshiping Lolth he will have problems in the afterlife. Despite his worship he will be considered Faithless as no servant of Lolth is going to collect a follower that does not follower her tenants. He could become a devil to avoid this fate, but if not he'll be put into the wall of the faithless. This means after a Tenday of death he's dead forever, because he would either have joined the wall or willingly become a devil.

If he is evil and following Lolth tenants he could stick with the party for a time. After all she is well known for keeping secrets and acting via poison. This -should- bring him into conflict with the party eventually, but that's up to him and the others players roleplay. Find out what his goals are and why he works with the party. If he's planning on betraying them or undermining them then just ban the character. Some DM's and groups can handle it, but it's clear you do not wish to deal with it. So don't. Make him play something else.

[lunaticfringe]

I was just worried since most of the party is good and are basically out to save the world, that someone worshipping an evil god was gonna be a problem.

Evil people live in the World & Don't wanna die too. NecroDancer has a good idea. Evil does not like other Evil ruining it's plans. Maybe he is on a divine mission to 'save the world' too, if only to **** with the other Evil Thingies.

[DizzyWood]

Evil people live in the World & Don't wanna die too. NecroDancer has a good idea. Evil does not like other Evil ruining it's plans. Maybe he is on a divine mission to 'save the world' too, if only to **** with the other Evil Thingies.

Thats a very Lolth thing to do. She is going to try and screw over the other evil things some how. She wants the world to be there for her to take over.

[Addaran]

Yeah that's what I'm gonna do, just see how it plays out. I was just worried since most of the party is good and are basically out to save the world, that someone worshipping an evil god was gonna be a problem. But I'll let the group handle it. I'll just see how it goes...

Try having a talk with the player. It's entirely possible that he's planning to be a team-player. His evil side would show mostly in his suggestions (will probably be outvoted), what he's willing to do to the enemies or in his decisions. (refuse to surrender even if there is hostages or keep fighting from there instead of going between the enemy and the villagers).

If you give us the rest of the party's characters, we could probably help find good plot hook on why he's fighting with the team.

For example, he could be on a mission from a drow priestess to bring her back at least one of the 4 elemental weapons. Or to secure the underground temples for a futur drow invasion, because originally it belong to drows and it's in the underdark.

[Plaguescarred]

I'm running pota. We have a relatively good aligned party. One of the members is a drow. I was already not so happy with his choice. In the last session he declared that he worships the Goddess lolth. I said that it isn't possible for him to worship that evil god and still be working with the rest of the group. Yet he insists that his character worships lolth. What should I do?Nothing. Why do you feel the need to do something about the fact that the player want his PC to be a non-evil drow worshipping Lolth? It has no mechanical impact really.

If the player really want and find this cool you should let it be. If he start acting all evil then you'll have a behavior problem to address. But its feasable to have a PC worship Lolth and not be chaotic evil murder freak. 5E is generally very lenient with dieties and alignment.

[Contrast]

I'm running pota. We have a relatively good aligned party. One of the members is a drow. I was already not so happy with his choice. In the last session he declared that he worships the Goddess lolth. I said that it isn't possible for him to worship that evil god and still be working with the rest of the group. Yet he insists that his character worships lolth. What should I do?

Seems like an issue for the party in character (provided you've explained to him out of character what the consequences are gonna be and he's still on board with the plan). Maybe give a few religion checks and explain what exactly being a Lolth worshipper entails. Also keep in mind the reaction of NPCs in your setting to a Lolth worshipping drow wandering around.

[Zevox]

I'd have to say you haven't given enough information for people to give proper advice here. Okay, this character is a Drow and worships Lolth... what else? Is he playing just a straight, stereotypical Drow, and is therefore evil? Or is he a Cleric? In that case, yeah, you've probably got a big enough issue that you really need to have a talk with him about the probable consequences of that when the rest of the party is good. Heck, hard to guess why he thinks a character like that would be with a good party to begin with.

Is he neither of those things? In that case, in what ways does his worship of Lolth manifest in his actions and personality? Lay followers have a lot more wiggle room with worshiping a deity without adopting all of their attitudes and tenants than a Cleric would. If he's very casual about this and mostly just worships her because she's the most major Drow deity despite not really following any of her teachings, then maybe you don't have a problem at all.

Or it could be anywhere in between those. Impossible to say, with what little we know now.

[Ashdate]

I'm running pota. We have a relatively good aligned party. One of the members is a drow. I was already not so happy with his choice. In the last session he declared that he worships the Goddess lolth. I said that it isn't possible for him to worship that evil god and still be working with the rest of the group. Yet he insists that his character worships lolth. What should I do?

I think this is not really about a potentially evil drow running with the party. Presumably, he's running with the part for a reason (I'm not familiar with Princes of the Apocolypse, but I assume the drow have an interest in the realms "not being obliterated" (according to the adventure description). As others have suggested here, it doesn't sound like there is anything *specifically* preventing a drow or evil character.

I think the potential problem is whether the players (not the PCs) can make this work. There is zero point letting this player run an evil drow if it will cause group conflict. Before another single sentence of flavour text is spoken, I think your players should sit down with this player and talk about what their boundaries are (i.e. what does this would-be-drow player think he should be able to do, and can they work with that somehow without bringing the game to a crashing halt?). If they can't come to an agreement then have the players talk about what kind of PC the player could play without pushing any buttons. Otherwise, your table your game, veto the drow and evil character business.

And if the player insists he won't play anything but an evil drow, or if he insists on channeling that rejection into destructive play at the table, congrats! You've found someone who should not be playing D&D.