Single spell optimization

[clash]

So as a thought exercise I wanted to create a build off the idea of optimizing a single spell. So for example a grappling build grappling two opponents and using spirit guardians. So what ideas do you guys have?

[j_spencer93]

I always liked combining it with Spiritual Weapon. Spirit Guardians will either keep people away, or damage those close, and Spiritual weapon gives you a decent damage dealer that is ranged and easy to use.
Throw sanctuary with spirit guardians to great an annoying situation. Actually in Hoard of the Dragon Queen a combo of all three of those spells defeated the entire party in Frulam's room.

[Maxilian]

I always liked combining it with Spiritual Weapon. Spirit Guardians will either keep people away, or damage those close, and Spiritual weapon gives you a decent damage dealer that is ranged and easy to use.
Throw sanctuary with spirit guardians to great an annoying situation. Actually in Hoard of the Dragon Queen a combo of all three of those spells defeated the entire party in Frulam's room.

I don't think that combo really works (With the Spiritual Guardian is... questionable), but i don't think you can use Spiritual Weapon without losing Sanctuary.

[PeteNutButter]

So as a thought exercise I wanted to create a build off the idea of optimizing a single spell. So for example a grappling build grappling two opponents and using spirit guardians. So what ideas do you guys have?

To get the most damage out of a spell with grapple it is best to use a spell that triggers damage when foes enter it and during their turn. That way you can drag or drop them out and back into it on your turn and then they take the damage again on their turn, effectively doubling the damage of the spell. Spells like cloud of daggers, moonbeam, create bonfire, etc.

Since spirit guardians moves with you that wouldn't work. Spirit guardians is a great spell though, so you wouldn't be gimped.

Grapple requires a lot of things that a standard cleric doesn't have in order to do well. Extra attack, makes for a chance at two grapples or grapple > shove prone. Expertise is required to ensure you don't waste your time grabbing strong guys and failing. Bard can give you some of that, but you'd have to pick between extra attack and getting spirit guardians at 6.

But is grapple necessary? If your foes are turning tail and running from you in melee, they are either disengaging, and forgoing damaging you, or provoking AOs. Either way you are controlling the fight. The spell also halves their movement speed, so its usually pretty easy to just walk forward again and put them back into it. Consider sentinel feat if your too lazy to walk forward.

Regardless of how you build it, I'd pick up Warcaster feat to make sure their strategy isn't just hit you till you lose the spell. It's very DM dependent, but in my experience most foes just tank the spirit guardians anyways and try and kill you before you can kill them.


I don't think that combo really works (With the Spiritual Guardian is... questionable), but i don't think you can use Spiritual Weapon without losing Sanctuary.

RAW Sanctuary only drops when you cast a spell that affects enemy creatures. If Spirit Guardians is already up you are in the clear. Now of course some DMs may rule otherwise, but it isn't game breaking. Presuming there is somewhere to go, foes can just dash away, rendering you nothing more than a swirling stick/heal bot.

[Maxilian]

RAW Sanctuary only drops when you cast a spell that affects enemy creatures. If Spirit Guardians is already up you are in the clear. Now of course some DMs may rule otherwise, but it isn't game breaking. Presuming there is somewhere to go, foes can just dash away, rendering you nothing more than a swirling stick/heal bot.


I know that's why i said that this one could be debated (It works RAW, but most likely not RAI), but the second option (using Spirit Weapon) doesn't really work with Sanctuary

Note:

One of my favorite options for specialized spells are with cantrips (Like Thorn Whip) and mostly buff or thematic spells (like Spectral Steed)

[clash]

While the feedback is great bear in mind the grappling with spiritual guardians was just an example. The purpose of this thread is for any single spell optimization ideas. So maybe a scorching ray build, or maybe someone knows a really neat trick for optimizing blink.

[Degwerks]

Hold Person and then cast a high level attack spell like Scorching Ray, or Inflict Wounds. But that's 2 spells

[Oramac]

Someone in another thread mentioned an Air Genasi Grappler with Stinking Cloud.

I don't know exactly how the build would work, but it sounds fun.

[tieren]

While the feedback is great bear in mind the grappling with spiritual guardians was just an example. The purpose of this thread is for any single spell optimization ideas. So maybe a scorching ray build, or maybe someone knows a really neat trick for optimizing blink.

I was working on a pal/lock mage slayer who would focus most of his own magic on teleportation spells (blink, misty step, misty escape, dimension door, arcane gate, etc...). Primary goal was to use mobility to get behind enemy lines to try to disable their casters so the rest of the party could mop up.

His magic defenses came from aura of protection, aura of warding, racial advantage on mental saves against magic (gnome).

[RulesJD]

Spirit Guardians + Thorn Whip.

That's about the most optimization you can get with that spell, largely due to SG being so damn good.

Bless + Sharpshooter/GWM

Eldritch Blast + Hex

[Maxilian]

Spirit Guardians + Thorn Whip.

I don't think Thorn Whip trigger the damage of Spirit Guardian, IMHO BB would do better (or using Thorn Whip as a reaction when they try to leave your reach -War Caster feat to make it harder for the enemy to leave the spirit guardian range-)


Also...

A Wizard Artificer / Ranger Beastmaster (Water Genasi)

Get the portable hole, get lot of water in it, make your crab big, let it grapple someone, open your bag, and go all in, close the hole, swim with your new best friend (Doesn't work if they know how to swim and/or breath underwater)

[RulesJD]

I don't think Thorn Whip trigger the damage of Spirit Guardian, IMHO BB would do better (or using Thorn Whip as a reaction when they try to leave your reach -War Caster feat to make it harder for the enemy to leave the spirit guardian range-)


Also...

A Wizard Artificer / Ranger Beastmaster (Water Genasi)

Get the portable hole, get lot of water in it, make your crab big, let it grapple someone, open your bag, and go all in, close the hole, swim with your new best friend (Doesn't work if they know how to swim and/or breath underwater)

If you have Spirit Guardians active, treat it like a Wall of Fire. If enemy enters, regardless of from forced movement or otherwise, the damage is triggered. Thus, if enemies are staying just outside the radius, Thorn Whip them inside. They take SG damage when you Thorn Whip them, and then again when they start their turn.

[Degwerks]

If you have Spirit Guardians active, treat it like a Wall of Fire. If enemy enters, regardless of from forced movement or otherwise, the damage is triggered. Thus, if enemies are staying just outside the radius, Thorn Whip them inside. They take SG damage when you Thorn Whip them, and then again when they start their turn.

This is a great combo and until you can get Spirit Guardians, you can use Create Bonfire or Cloud of Daggers.

[j_spencer93]

I don't think that combo really works (With the Spiritual Guardian is... questionable), but i don't think you can use Spiritual Weapon without losing Sanctuary.

You know....I missed the limit to sanctuary before actually. Not sure how lol but in hindsight i don't think it would work.

Then again it specifically calls out making a attack or casting a spell, so as long as spiritual guardian was first i think it combos with it. Not spiritual weapon though

[Degwerks]

Animate Objects on 10 arrowheads you keep in a sealed clay pot of poison, drop the pot & cast the spell. Icing on the cake if a party member has Crusaders Mantle also running.

Ways to capitalize on Greenflame Blade cantrip, 8th level arcana cleric or 6th lvl draconic fire socerer or 1st lvl undying light warlock. All get to add spellcasting mod on the damage roll.

[NNescio]

Sorlock with Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blast + Hex. If more damage is required, EB + Quickened EB (with all the riders) can be used on subsequent turns once Hex is up.

Further optimization would require a Fighter dip (for Action Surge), but that's probably not worth tanking your spell progression any further.


Animate Objects on 10 arrowheads you keep in a sealed clay pot of poison, drop the pot & cast the spell. Icing on the cake if a party member has Crusaders Mantle also running.

Ways to capitalize on Greenflame Blade cantrip, 8th level arcana cleric or 6th lvl draconic fire socerer or 1st lvl undying light warlock. All get to add spellcasting mod on the damage roll.

Draconic only gets to add once (due to PHB errata) but the other two classes get to add theirs twice if the rider effect triggers.