Elemental Discipline Selection

[CantigThimble]

So I'm going to be playing a RAW way of the four elements monk, which disciplines should I take?

[Saeviomage]

Way of the open hand and some wizard levels?

But seriously: fist of unbroken air OR water whip. They both have minor unique benefits, and are ways to turn your Ki into a lot of damage. For my money, water whip is slightly better because it targets dex instead of str, and can be used to get people up close for a beating.

You probably want
eternal mountain defense
either mist stance or ride the wind
gong of the summit or flames of the phoenix or river of hungry flame

Personally I would swap out elemental attunement for something else, because it's fairly awful, even when you compare it against the other flavour cantrips. Possibly shape the flowing river?

[DragonSorcererX]

Way of the open hand and some wizard levels?

But seriously: fist of unbroken air OR water whip. They both have minor unique benefits, and are ways to turn your Ki into a lot of damage. For my money, water whip is slightly better because it targets dex instead of str, and can be used to get people up close for a beating.

You probably want
eternal mountain defense
either mist stance or ride the wind
gong of the summit or flames of the phoenix or river of hungry flame

Personally I would swap out elemental attunement for something else, because it's fairly awful, even when you compare it against the other flavour cantrips. Possibly shape the flowing river?

A possible way to fix this Monk is making him a pseudo-Eldritch Knight but with Druid/Nature Cleric Spellcasting and the possibility to use the Ki points as some kind of Metamagic, since WotC has remade the Ranger they could remake the Elemental Monk.

Maybe something like this (I did this in 30 mins ~ 1 hour, I had nothing to do): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5cDCV8Fz-_sSUVDVlNtRTA1WnM

[Specter]

I'd take:

Water Whip (versatile and awesome)

Fangs of the Fire Snake (for reach when you don't want to close in with the enemy)

Clench of the North Wind (trade Elemental Attunement for this; can turn an encounter around)

Ride the Wind (because monks hate flying enemies)

Flames of the Phoenix (for the occasional AoE)

[CantigThimble]

A possible way to fix this Monk is making him a pseudo-Eldritch Knight but with Druid/Nature Cleric Spellcasting and the possibility to use the Ki points as some kind of Metamagic, since WotC has remade the Ranger they could remake the Elemental Monk.

Maybe something like this (I did this in 30 mins ~ 1 hour, I had nothing to do): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5cDCV8Fz-_sSUVDVlNtRTA1WnM

The thing is I'm currently the only experienced 5e player in my group. I want the DM and players to get some experience and gain some confidence in their understanding of the system before anyone starts thinking about modifying it. I'm playing an elements monk for story reasons (he's basically a slightly deranged hermit who believes the elemental lords should replace the current deities) but I want to make the most of it.

So water whip definitely seems like the go-to, is fangs of the fire snake really useful at all? It seems like anyone you don't want to be in melee with could just reach you anyway after you use it and the fire damage isn't as good as regular attacks (after level 6 at least)

[MeeposFire]

Are we using the current change to water whip that makes it an action rather than a bonus action? That really hurts it IMO.

[CantigThimble]

Yes, I'm using the errata.

[EvilAnagram]

Fangs of the Fire Snake is great for extending your reach and going nova on a crit, and Water Whip is solid control.

I think Fist of Unbroken Air is pretty sweet. Personally, I'm a fan of dealing damage, knocking prone, and pushing targets. It works especially well if your wizard knows Cloud of Daggers.

[Addaran]

The thing is I'm currently the only experienced 5e player in my group. I want the DM and players to get some experience and gain some confidence in their understanding of the system before anyone starts thinking about modifying it. I'm playing an elements monk for story reasons (he's basically a slightly deranged hermit who believes the elemental lords should replace the current deities) but I want to make the most of it.

So water whip definitely seems like the go-to, is fangs of the fire snake really useful at all? It seems like anyone you don't want to be in melee with could just reach you anyway after you use it and the fire damage isn't as good as regular attacks (after level 6 at least)

Nice background, i hope you're (not) playing in Princes of the Apocalypse. =P

For fangs of the fire snake, monk do have a better movement speed, so you'll probably get at least win 1 round of him not attacking you. Probably not worth to get both.

[Specter]

So water whip definitely seems like the go-to, is fangs of the fire snake really useful at all? It seems like anyone you don't want to be in melee with could just reach you anyway after you use it and the fire damage isn't as good as regular attacks (after level 6 at least)

Monks can use disengage as a bonus action. Meaning they can get up close, attack twice, then vanish to avoid retaliation.
The nice thing about FotFS is that you can use your bonus action to attack up to four times, while still keeping safe from melee harm. That plus the bonus optional damage to crits as EA said.

[Saeviomage]

I think fangs is fairly poor. It's not good for novaing because it costs 1 ki + 1 ki per 1d10, probably + 1 ki for flurry, and in the end you get 4d10 bonus damage for 5 ki (but have to have spent 6 ki).

The reach on it is most likely inferior to spending 1 ki to withdraw.

If you've got water whip, you can dump your entire ki load in a single shot. Just make sure you stunned the guy the round before so he automatically fails the save.

[Arkhios]

Not exactly savvy with the Four Winds Monk, but I would think that FotFS is good option to have if there are a lot of flying opponents (or if the monk himself is flying; which reminds me of a fairly old wuxia film which name I've forgotten. I think it was both awesome and somewhat hilarious that a monk could fly and shoot beams of fire from his hands =P)

[Zalabim]

I think fangs is fairly poor. It's not good for novaing because it costs 1 ki + 1 ki per 1d10, probably + 1 ki for flurry, and in the end you get 4d10 bonus damage for 5 ki (but have to have spent 6 ki).

The reach on it is most likely inferior to spending 1 ki to withdraw.

If you've got water whip, you can dump your entire ki load in a single shot. Just make sure you stunned the guy the round before so he automatically fails the save.

If you spend 1 ki to withdraw, you also aren't able to flurry, so it's spending 1 Ki to save a bonus action. The increased reach is also extra distance you don't have to travel back and forth to attack and withdraw, so you're spending 1 Ki to disengage from most enemies safely and also reach a safe distance as if you had a total of 20-30 feet more movement. That's not as good as the radiant blasts from Sun Soul monk, but they're still melee weapon attacks, so you can still use martial arts or stunning strikes with it, and it also gives you the option to nova and spend extra ki for more damage right now, or just get lucky and spend 1 ki for 2d10 more damage on a crit.

Water Whip does fulfill some similar roles, but I also like Fists of Unbroken Air for knocking down a flier at low levels. You cause extra falling damage if you manage to push them from below.

You could get a lot of low level utility out of even weak area attacks like burning hands or thunderwave depending on what you're fighting. You could take Gust of Wind primarily just to counter fogs, and also have it to hold hallways. Whichever you pick, I do think both Hold Person (for wis save) and Shatter (for range) are worth considering at level 6.

[Saeviomage]

If you spend 1 ki to withdraw, you also aren't able to flurry, so it's spending 1 Ki to save a bonus action. The increased reach is also extra distance you don't have to travel back and forth to attack and withdraw, so you're spending 1 Ki to disengage from most enemies safely and also reach a safe distance as if you had a total of 20-30 feet more movement. That's not as good as the radiant blasts from Sun Soul monk, but they're still melee weapon attacks, so you can still use martial arts or stunning strikes with it, and it also gives you the option to nova and spend extra ki for more damage right now, or just get lucky and spend 1 ki for 2d10 more damage on a crit.

I'll grudgingly accept that what it lacks in actual capability, it's making up for in versatility:P


Water Whip does fulfill some similar roles, but I also like Fists of Unbroken Air for knocking down a flier at low levels. You cause extra falling damage if you manage to push them from below.

Well, water whip can do the knock down as well. I guess in theory you could use water whip to pull people 25 feet into the air for bonus damage if you can find a vantage point... which will result in them being proned as well as pulled anyway! Nice.


You could get a lot of low level utility out of even weak area attacks like burning hands or thunderwave depending on what you're fighting. You could take Gust of Wind primarily just to counter fogs, and also have it to hold hallways. Whichever you pick, I do think both Hold Person (for wis save) and Shatter (for range) are worth considering at level 6.
I get your point about hold person targeting a different save, but it seems to have a lot of parallel with stunning strike.

[ruy343]

I'm assuming low level here, but I did play a high-level 4-elements monk for a while, and it was a blast.

My recommendation is to go for abilities that grant you versatility, battlefield control, or AoE. I don't remember the names of the abilities off the top of my head, but the following are ones that stand out to me:

Fist of Unbroken Air
Water Whip
Fangs of the Fire Snake
Shatter Spell
Gust of Wind Spell


At higher levels:
Gaseous Form Spell (great for bring the scout and getting away from enemies)
Fly Spell
Wall of Flame

[Vogonjeltz]

I'll grudgingly accept that what it lacks in actual capability, it's making up for in versatility:P

It also lets you stunning strike from a distance, which overcomes the combination of Polearm Mastery + Sentinel

[Specter]

I think fangs is fairly poor. It's not good for novaing because it costs 1 ki + 1 ki per 1d10, probably + 1 ki for flurry, and in the end you get 4d10 bonus damage for 5 ki (but have to have spent 6 ki).

The reach on it is most likely inferior to spending 1 ki to withdraw.

I have to disagree on this. The fun behind FotFS is that you can attack the enemy from 10 feet away with more damage than an unarmed strike would normally give, and move away with your superior speed, leaving no chance of retaliation behind. If there's a tank like Sorcadin or Bearbarian around, the enemy won't even have a choice to attack you or him, it's just him. And next round you're back to punish him again, with 4 attacks, not 2 as if you used Step of the Wind. Bothersome and protective.