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Laughingdagger

2016-09-21, 07:16 PM

Fflewddur Fflam

2016-09-21, 08:01 PM

How about a Half-Elf Paladin 7/Assassin 5/Draconic Sorcerer 8?
Str 13 Dex 16 Con 13 Int 8 Wis 10 Chr 16

Sorc levels give you spells for buffing, attacking, and burnable spell slots for divine smite. You also get nice attack cantrips like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade.

Paladin levels 6 and 7 are great for the auras.

I know you only wanted two classes, but after Rogue 5 and Paladin 7, you don't get too much more from those classes.

lunaticfringe

2016-09-21, 08:29 PM

Maximizing the number of AutoCrits is a Team Effort in my experience. Stealthy Party + Block Initiative + Darkvision/Devil Sight + Perception Proficiency & Expertise are all very helpful. Bows are amazingly helpful, but no Ranged Smiteys. My Assassin was a Lightfoot Halfling & hid behind the Wizard sometimes while the Face distracted people. Pop out, Surprise!, AutoCrit! In your case you would be behind the Face & Pop out from between their legs.

Surprise only happens Once per Combat & it requires Strategery & Friends. Unless your Solo. Idk when does one combat end & another begin? That's something you DM decides.

Have you looked at Swashbuckler/Pal for Maximum SneakSmite? That seems full of win.

Specter

2016-09-21, 08:37 PM

Assassin = Alert, so take that as soon as possible (preferably V. Human). DEX paladin may be better that STR due to higher initiative along with Stealth. Minimum rogue levels are 3, and minimum Paladin levels are 5 (Extra Attack that will also crit on surprise). For a final build, I'd go Ass 8/Pal12 (Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are great for survivability).

As for your oath, I don't think any can compete with Vengeance, since it gives you Hunter's Mark for even more damage and Vow of Enmity is free advantage against one guy.

Other noteworthy mentions are Ranger 1 (adv. On init rolls) and Fighter 2 (Action Surge and +1 fighting style).

Drackolus

2016-09-21, 08:45 PM

Action surge would help immensely, and getting haste would be nice too. But, if you want to stick to two classes (which is a good idea), I would recommend Assassin 4/Paladin X, grabbing that Dex save proficiency and, the real winner, shield master. You'll have to use a rapier anyway to get your extra sneak attacks, so using your off-hand for a shield for free proning (and free advantage) is a clear winner. Vengeance seems like the obvious choice, being able to give yourself always-advantage and picking awesome spells like Haste and Misty Step. Biggest downside is that you'll be stuck to one attack until level NINE, and with shield master you can't rely on scag cantrips really (plus, you'd probably rather have the extra attacks from both classes.)

V.Human is a classic, H. Elf is also good - I'm a fan of the drow spellcasting variant, but you could get Booming Blade from high elf just to tide you over for a while. Works awesome if you eventually pick up warcaster, though pumping cha and dex will eat up most of your asi's. Drow are a decent choice if you don't mind the vision issues.

Sorry if I'm not totally coherent, this flu is really kicking my butt.

Arkhios

2016-09-22, 12:21 AM

If it's mainly Divine Smites you're after, you can get by with a charisma 13, maybe 14 if you dislike odd numbers like I do (because it's half-way there to obtaining a higher bonus).

14, 16, 12, 8, 10, 14
Variant human with racial pluses in dex and either str or cha, and Alert as a bonus feat would be great as a starting point.

I would propably start as a rogue for the sheer number of skill proficiencies (4 from rogue, 2 from background (most likely Acolyte), and 1 from being a variant human), advance to 3rd level and become an assassin.
Next, advance two levels into Paladin for medium armor, (shield), and martial weapon proficiencies, defense or dueling fighting style, divine smite, and spellcasting.
After that, advance to 4th level rogue to take Medium Armor Master, so that you can maintain a good AC while remaining stealthy.

By 6th character level, your heavily armored allies might have found a plate armor, while you might have found a half-plate. With MAM, you'd have AC 18 (15+3 dex) which is equal to having plate, before a possible defense fighting style and/or a shield (which btw doesn't interfere with sneaking). However, with the feat you won't have disadvantage in stealth checks even with a half-plate, which is a significant bonus over Plate.

Whatever you choose to do beyond this is up to you. You could even out your strength with dexterity, and eventually gain STR 20, if you wanted. Or you could continue advancing Dex, and then charisma with the rest, especially if you decide to advance to 6th paladin level at least for aura of protection.

Or you could leave dex at 16, because it's already great at that, and instead focus on getting feats you might want. Such as Shield Master, which might sound odd for a divine assassin.

I think I might aim for something like this:
Assassin 12/Paladin of Vengeance 8, which would grant you a total of 6 ASI's, barring feats other than Alert and MAM, this could grant you both Dex and Cha 20, ridiculous saves, decent smites and +6d6 sneak attacks. Using maybe two scimitars you could have 3 attacks in a round, 3 chances to crit and/or sneak attack (with a smite, of course)

PeteNutButter

2016-09-22, 06:18 AM

Arkhios

2016-09-22, 07:16 AM

An even str does absolutely nothing for the character.

Maybe, maybe not. However, it's like I said, I dislike having odd values - not everyone do, I realize that.
But, honestly, even strength does something for the character: Strength checks, should he choose to aim for Shield Master. Shove is a Strength(Athletics) check (rules as written; a DM might rule otherwise, but in that case it's a houserule), and in my experience every point counts.

Merely for the sake of an example, I used standard array, to show that it's possible to combine paladin and rogue rather easily. Obviously you can get better(?) with point buy, by making a dunce character.

djreynolds

2016-09-22, 07:32 AM

Have you read the death dealers handbook in the guides section.

3 fighter BMW for precision
3 assassin
Paladin X

Alert, lucky
Fighting style is up to
Max dex

Corran

2016-09-22, 08:04 AM

I'm feeling the distinct need for a divine assassin, and want to take advantage of the rogue archtype's 3rd level ability, assassinate along with paladin smiting.
One of my favourite concepts!
Lets have a look at some of your thoughts.

Definitely Rogue 3/Paladin X, but is Rogue 4/Paladin X better at that point for the ASI? On the flipside is Paladin 2/Rogue 3+ but that only leaves us with 2 level 1 slots for spells/smites.
Let me quickly start with this. Paladin2-3/RogueX is out. The 4d8 extra damage on assassinating attempts, at a maximum of 3/day isn't worth the investment. There is some value in going vengeance for the advantage (VoE) that works well with sneak attack, but there are other ways for getting advantage, which dont have the restrictions of VoE, and which they dont force you to have a 13 in strength So yeah, this type of build is out, not nearly enough synergy to justify that.
As for going rogue3-4/paladinX, well, that's another story entirely. Whether or not takinga 4th rogue level or not will entirely be dependent on the ideal progression for this build, and on what class features you will have to prioritize and in what order. But before looking at progression, one has to look at the skeleton of the build, and if one is happy with that, then figuring out the progression and thus fixing the multiclass split (ie rogue 3 or rogue 4) is he next and final step. So, the real question is if rogue3-ish/paladinX is a good build for your purposes. Lets see what you want.

Build goals: ability to surprise as many opponents as possible
Okay, lets look at surprise first. What have you got? Expertise in stealth, proficiency in disguise kit, and probably expertise in deception too. Furthermore, you need a good initiative too, thus there is pressure in investing in feats like alert and lucky (seriously, this last feat is perhaps the best feat for assassins of any kind, as you can use it for rerolling crucial stealth/deception checks that lead to surprise, initiative, and even surprise round attacks, among all of its other uses). The fact that you are going to be a MAD build (the str requirement of 13 adds to the MADness), along with the fact that you will need darkvision (thus not vhuman for the extra feat), along with the fact the multiclassing is usually not kind on feats/ASIs, is a problem that we will leave solving it for later, but now keep that in the back of your mind. So lets go back to surprising. You need to do it in melee (thus making it far more difficult that if you were in range, in which case perhaps a good stealth would be sufficient). And you have only the most basic methods available to you via your suggested build (ie stealth and deception). No invisibility, no alter self... generally not enough spell support from spells that make all of assassinating/ infiltrating/ escaping/ even fighting much more achievable and potent. My point is that an expertised stealth can only get you that far, and there will be many times when it wont be enough.

Build goals: have as many auto-crit smites as we can cram in
As for bing able to autocrit smite a lot, that comes down to having as much and as high as possible level spell slots. That is hard to achieve with the halfcaster progression of the paladin, and it is even harder if you factor in multiclassing into an assassin. Moreover, there is another little trick you can use to pull this off, and that is quickening a hold person before attacking (preferably an upcast hold person to include more targets, for increasing the posibility that at least one of them is held. But this requires level in sorcerer, so lets forget that for now (though, keep that in the back of your mind too).

Build goals: being able to mix it up melee/skirmish without dropping at a stiff breeze.
Being able to mix it up in melee/skirmishing. Hmmm. As far as skirmishig goes, it would be ideal if you could get your hands on BB. Some spells help with skirmishing tactics too. Spells that paladin wont ive you though. As for melee.... well, it will depend a lot in your group composition, meaning that if there are some meat shields around, you could perhaps pull it off (especially if you would equip a shield during normal encounters, though if you engaged using surprise and thus possibly twf, it will not be practical to spend an action donning a shield). Bottom line, you could potentially make for a much better skirmisher than for a dedicated melee frontliner, though with the riht group composition, you might be able to pull off melee'ing too. But then again, paladin/rogue hardly gives you any skirmishing tools, other than cunning action.

How could we make this happen in the best way possible? I appreciate any input on the matter as it's mainly a concept experiment for potential play.

Cheers.
I've tried palassassin builds in various combinations (was able to rebuild a lot, though there weren't really any massive changes), in actual play. And all these little variations of the build, which was a palassassin, had one thing in common: They all underperformed in regard to my expectations and they all left me quite displeased (especially due to how they coped when in combat and surprising was not an option, or when in combat after the surprise round). I wont go into a ton of details, suffice to say that extra attack was substncially delayed, that twf is a badly supported fighting style, that the action economy of that build was a headache (HM, VoE, cunning action, twf), that my stats were spread too thin and that my resources did not justify that, and last but not least, that surprising was a rather difficult thing to pull off due to relying only on the absolutely basic stuff to accomplish it (while also due to how I needed to do it in melee). But most of all, because aside for surprise rounds, the build couldnt really tank or be a consistent dpr, and even to be mediocre in any of those roles, it required a lot of feat/ASI support that I couldnt have unless I gimped my assassinating skills.

You know what I found (after SCAG came out)? That adding a third class to this build solves almost all the problems, and makes for a very potent character. The class I am speaking of is sorcerer.
You can choose to be a favoured soul sorcerer if you want to preserve the strictly divine assassin theme (though a shadow one is by far the best option mechanically imo for this build, as it most importantly allows you to be a vhuman for that all important starting feat, without lacking darkvision which is mandatory).

So, my suggestion is paladin2/rogue3/SorcererX. If this is something you are interested in, I would be glad to give you my thoughts on it, but I stop here for now, since this might be something you are not looking for.

Specter

2016-09-22, 08:34 AM

Corran

2016-09-22, 09:04 AM

If you're not willing to go Paladin 5, there has to be extra attack from another class. Fighter, Valor Bard, Favored Soul, doesn't matter, as long as it's there.

Surprise is hard enough to set up as is, and you don't to have just one smite attack when it happens. Let it all out. With one attack there's also a bigger chance of missing your foe after setting up surprise (and consequently crying).
I will respectfully disagree with how mandatory extra attack is for an optimized non-GWM/SS assassin. Personally, I think there are more benefits in skipping it than in going out of your way to take it. Ofc, if it just happens to be grabbed along the way (as per the example of FS), it can be a good situational addition to your class features, though even in that case (ie multiclassing into sorcerer), going for FS just for the extra attack feature is worse than going for another origin (eg shadow), from an overall optimization perspective.

Let me elaborate.
During normal encounters, given a dex based melee build that focuses on skirmishing tactics mostly (as it should), the absense of extra attack is of minor importance, due to how you will e better off using the scag cantrips anyway (with emphasis on BB, reserving your bonus action to disengage).
During surprise rounds, using extra attack and stacking smites on top of all of your attacks will lead to better damage, but at a very increased cost than just using using a scag cantrip (perhaps even a twinned BB if two opponents are between 10' of each other) with just one smite stack on. That means that the extra attack option will deal less damage per resource cost, and it is worth mentioning that super-optimizing surprise damage is a concern to smooth teamplay when not playing in a solo game. So imo (and ime I might add, thought experiences vary), it is best going for the more efficient (damage per resource cost unit) and the smoother for group play (not ridiculous high surprise damage) way, which is not going out of your way to grab extra attack.
(That is not to say that the surprise damage of a pal2/rogue3/sorcX build wont be high enough, in fact it is high enough to create problems regarding teamplay in some cases, though in this case you have stopped further optimizing an area that does not need it, ie surprise damage, and instead you have become much better in most other areas of the build.)

ps: Perhaps I would be able to justify this much better if we were discussing and comparing speciic builds (in which case I would be able to show better at what cost one is grabbing extra attack). Also, if we are discussing a stricly paladin/rogue build, then yeah, perhaps extra attack is mandatory, but imo that does not fall squarely into optimal assassin build territory.

Mandragola

2016-09-22, 12:53 PM

Ok so you want to be sneaky and surprise people. One of the first requirements is therefore that you can see in the dark. I kind of see darkvision as non-negotiable here if honest.

Some people suggest mixing in sorceror levels for more spell slots. Actually this doesn't yield as many extra slots as all that, and only does so slowly. I'd actually prioritise getting improved divine smite for general all-round awesomeness, rather than more spell slots. By that point you'll have 10 spell slots anyway, and that's more than you need to ambush a couple of times a day.

You know that action surge is incredibly good for an assassin. Doesn't really need saying. If you want to stick to two classes then I respect that. An optimised ambusher would probably get at least a couple of fighter levels somewhere along the line, but you don't need to. It also lets you pick up the

Start as a paladin and stay one until at least level 6. Or maybe, maybe start as a rogue for the skills for a single level. But Do get your second attack asap, as it's kind of inherent to the build.

A strength-based half-orc is also an option. Pump strength instead of dex. Starting stats 16, 14, 14, 8, 9, 14. Bit odd to have that 9 in there, but not a problem exactly. Half-orc bonus damage on crits is a good thing - though non-essential. Intimidate works as you'll have decent charisma, and your AC won't be horrible in a breastplate. Not as sneaky though, and that obviously matters.

Otherwise it's hard to argue against playing a half-elf, especially for a MAD build like this. 14, 16, 12, 8, 10, 16 is kind of a weird set of stats, but it does everything you need. That con score is worryingly low, especially if you're trying to concentrate on haste.

Drow is also an interesting one. Great for sneakiness of course, and the sunlight issues might not be too crippling if you tend to operate in the shadows.

Specter

2016-09-22, 01:44 PM

I will respectfully disagree with how mandatory extra attack is for an optimized non-GWM/SS assassin. Personally, I think there are more benefits in skipping it than in going out of your way to take it. Ofc, if it just happens to be grabbed along the way (as per the example of FS), it can be a good situational addition to your class features, though even in that case (ie multiclassing into sorcerer), going for FS just for the extra attack feature is worse than going for another origin (eg shadow), from an overall optimization perspective.

Let me elaborate.
During normal encounters, given a dex based melee build that focuses on skirmishing tactics mostly (as it should), the absense of extra attack is of minor importance, due to how you will e better off using the scag cantrips anyway (with emphasis on BB, reserving your bonus action to disengage).
During surprise rounds, using extra attack and stacking smites on top of all of your attacks will lead to better damage, but at a very increased cost than just using using a scag cantrip (perhaps even a twinned BB if two opponents are between 10' of each other) with just one smite stack on. That means that the extra attack option will deal less damage per resource cost, and it is worth mentioning that super-optimizing surprise damage is a concern to smooth teamplay when not playing in a solo game. So imo (and ime I might add, thought experiences vary), it is best going for the more efficient (damage per resource cost unit) and the smoother for group play (not ridiculous high surprise damage) way, which is not going out of your way to grab extra attack.
(That is not to say that the surprise damage of a pal2/rogue3/sorcX build wont be high enough, in fact it is high enough to create problems regarding teamplay in some cases, though in this case you have stopped further optimizing an area that does not need it, ie surprise damage, and instead you have become much better in most other areas of the build.)

ps: Perhaps I would be able to justify this much better if we were discussing and comparing speciic builds (in which case I would be able to show better at what cost one is grabbing extra attack). Also, if we are discussing a stricly paladin/rogue build, then yeah, perhaps extra attack is mandatory, but imo that does not fall squarely into optimal assassin build territory.

I get where you're coming from, but without a second attack there's always a stinky chance of missing the attack. Roll poorly on both dice, and the surprise you worked on is wasted.

Let's assume level 8.

Surprise round:
Ass3/Pal5 (With Extra Attack): 2d8+6d8 (smite)+4d6(sneak)+6 (dueling+dex): 72avg.
2nd attack (assuming no smite):2d8+6: 15 avg
Total of 87avg.

Ass3/Pal2/Sor3: 2d8+6d8(smite)+2d8(GFB or BOOM)+4d6(sneak)+6(dueling+dex): 81avg.

If you miss one attack in the first scenario, you still get ~72. In the second, you get 0.

Biggstick

2016-09-22, 02:17 PM

Is there a reason that you have to actually pick up Paladin levels? You said you want to be a divine assassin, why can't you just choose the Acolyte background and run with an ideal assassin build that mixes Rogue/Fighter/Ranger?

You'd be able to absolutely skip over all this MADness of the 13 Str and 13 Cha. You could focus purely on your Dex and valuable feats (Lucky and Alert)

Corran

2016-09-22, 09:22 PM

I get where you're coming from, but without a second attack there's always a stinky chance of missing the attack. Roll poorly on both dice, and the surprise you worked on is wasted.

Let's assume level 8.

Surprise round:
Ass3/Pal5 (With Extra Attack): 2d8+6d8 (smite)+4d6(sneak)+6 (dueling+dex): 72avg.
2nd attack (assuming no smite):2d8+6: 15 avg
Total of 87avg.

Ass3/Pal2/Sor3: 2d8+6d8(smite)+2d8(GFB or BOOM)+4d6(sneak)+6(dueling+dex): 81avg.

If you miss one attack in the first scenario, you still get ~72. In the second, you get 0.
It is risk vs reward.
Yes, I agree that with the extra attack surprise round damage will be more consistent, at least up to a certain point (because after a certain level which I am very bored to calculate, when the cantrips power up and the spell slots increase to accomodate higher level smiting, sp increase to accomodate quickening, and after lucky is picked, this will turn around).

But let me say, that from my own personal experience (which may very well be wrong, or at least differ from that of others), surprise round damage is the least of the concerns regarding a palassassin, however strange that may sound. The build imo is a one-trick pony, shining whenever it can pull of a surprise, and underperforming whenever that is not the case. I will go as far as to claim that the ridiculous high surprise damage (which is accomplished eventually by my suggested build too) is bad for group play, but this strays me from the point I want to make so I'll stop this here.

My point is, that slightly gimping (that's not the correct word, perhaps putting less emphasis is a better term) temporarily your surprise damage (without that meaning that you wont be good at assassinating) in order to become better at everything else, is what this build needs in order to leave the one-trick pony territory and to start being useful. Meaning, that you dont go for paladin 5 for the extra attack, and instead you gain sorcerer levels that will give you a spell list with huge potential and wide applications as far as your skills are concerned.

Examples. While the palassassin was counting only on stealth and deception (both expertised I assume) to pull off assassinations, now you have more advanced tools into your arsenal, meaning certain spells. First and foremost, invisibility. Given that you do your dirty work in melee, this is pretty much a must-have. Cannot remember how many times this spell made the difference between a successful and an unsuccessful surprise for me. Also, alter self. This is brilliant at the hands of an assassin with a good deception, and it takes your social stealth at a completelly different levels. Again, countless times this one helped me, perhaps even more than invisibility. Dimension door too, I used it at least once (quickened) in order to guarantee surprise. And that last one is an odd choice, but it is one of my favourites: Creation. I used it once paired with subtle spell, to turn a teaspoon's round edge into the pointy edge of a knife and got a kill even if I was completelly disarmed before entering that place (this scene had a lot of cunning set up behind it, but I wont bore you with the details, suffice to say that the key word was ''sugar''). I didnt play at the higher levels, but I can only imagine how etherealness would be at the hands of an assassin. And that's just what I can think of, others might even find better and more things to do with the sorcerer spells. (Also, do not underestimate a well placed twinned BB surprise round).
Now take combat. There is no greater spell for a skirmisher like the one discussed more or less, than greater invisibility. Paticularly if you can twinn it to include a GWM/SS/melee rogue ally. That one alone solves most of your problems when you get access to it (level 12 with my progression). There is also the hold person/smite trick, which can be used when appropriate. You can also take one or two spells and use them to support (twinned haste/polymorph), if you think a change of pace is in order (ie let your allies shine). Defensively, there are shield, mirror image (best used when you have hasted/polymorph your allies), counterspell, misty step (anti-grappling). And as for at will dpr, gfb/ BB (followed by a disengage) will outpace your normal attack damage significantly. Twinned BB and disengage, is one of the best uses of sp (when done under the right conditions).
Edit: Besides, finding a way to not rely on extra attack (ie getting your hands on scga cantrips, especially when you can pair one of them with cunning action for wonderful results) is one of the best thing you can do for such a multiclassed build.

I could go on and on but probably all I am doing it to tire you.
My point is, that ime the spell support and metamagic gained from sorcerer (and applied on the palassassin base, ie paladin2/rogue3), turns this build from a one-trick pony that has very little to offer when surprise is not successful/possible, into a very well rounded and capable build. At least ime, the change (when I rebuilded from paladin6/rogue3 to paladin2/rogue3/sorcerer4 and then carried on till sorcerer 10) was a very beneficial one. Perhaps it has something to do with play style too, but I think it was a major upgrade.

Specter

2016-09-22, 10:20 PM

Fair enough. But if optimizing for surprise is bad or harmful, why not just go Swashbuckler or Arcane Trickster? This isn't what OP wants, but I'm curious anyway.

Corran

2016-09-22, 11:02 PM

Fair enough. But if optimizing for surprise is bad or harmful, why not just go Swashbuckler or Arcane Trickster? This isn't what OP wants, but I'm curious anyway.
Optimizing for surprise is not bad, but there is a difference between optimizing an assassin as a whole (whether we are talking about a singleclass or a multiclass build), and putting all our effort into increasing our surprise damage as much as possible with no regards to how this affects our build. This last observation concerns mainly certain multiclass combinations (a classic is the paladin/rogue/fighter), that can take the surprise damage into ridiculous high levels at the cost of overall efficiency. That's what I am arguing against. Ime (and that was before I could even add the fighter levels), I would either one-shot the big bad, or I would contribute very little to the fight. This can be problematic, however you look at it.

It's all about finding the right balance, between assassinating, figthing, utility, etc. The palassassin focuses heavily on the first while being subpar on everything else. The sorcerer route, while a bit worse (but still very potent) at surprise round damage (not at assassinating, as assassinating includes pulling off a surprise in the first place), is far better at everything else. And that is because the sorcerer has better synergy with the rogue than a paladin does (and that is even more evident when we are talking about assassins, who can profit seriously from spell support).

I could even had gone strictly with a sorcerogue (assassin), but I decided of dipping 2 levels in paladin despite the MAD issue for the smite (and a few more things, like starting prof and saves), as I wanted the boost on my surprise round attack damage (and for a few other mechanical reason regarding spell slots and their use).

So, dont look at taking away the extra attack as a way to humper our surprise damage, but as a way to get more sorcerer levels and faster, so that we can get sp and spells/cantrips, that improve the build significantly in its various tasks (surprising, assassinating, infiltrating, escaping, damage-wise, supporting, etc).

Edit: If a singleclass assassin rogue fails surprising an enemy, he will be solid during the rest of the combat, as he has the rogue chassis to fall back into. This is not the case for the palassassin, whose main trick is surprising, and other than that, they have a very weak base build. Adding sorcerer levels to the base build and reducing the rogue and paladin to the absolutely minimum required changes that and creates for a strong chassis with a lot of versatility when surprise is not possible.

djreynolds

2016-09-23, 01:48 AM

I'm feeling the distinct need for a divine assassin, and want to take advantage of the rogue archtype's 3rd level ability, assassinate along with paladin smiting.

Build goals: ability to surprise as many opponents as possible, have as many auto-crit smites as we can cram in while remaining a 2-class MC, being able to mix it up melee/skirmish without dropping at a stiff breeze.

Definitely Rogue 3/Paladin X, but is Rogue 4/Paladin X better at that point for the ASI? On the flipside is Paladin 2/Rogue 3+ but that only leaves us with 2 level 1 slots for spells/smites.

How could we make this happen in the best way possible? I appreciate any input on the matter as it's mainly a concept experiment for potential play.

Cheers.

Check out the class guides section in notable threads, Gladius has a battlemaster/assassin/paladin of vengeance build its under the rogue section in the class guide. Very easy to build, fighter gives you action surge and access to precision, do not want to miss, and the combo of fighter paladin gives 2 styles, so snag archery... can't smite but it gives an option for you when you are out of smites or grab TWF, and then grab duelist style or defensive style from paladin.

You only have to max out dex for this combo to work