Am I reading this wrong, or is this a thing?

[Grayfigure]

Ok, I was discussing (unsuccessfully *cries*) with my DM the possibility of Fireball being learned by a warlock 5/wizard 3 (don't worry, I know it can't happen; this is about something else), when I came across a snippet in the multiclass section that really jumped out at me. Perhaps it was because I was learning the rules for 5e when I came across that I didn't really LOOK at it.

What I'm talking about is the section on pact magic in the multiclass section of the PHB; specifically where it states that a character with both pact magic and spellcasting can use pact magic slots to cast spellcasting spells the character knows OR HAS PREPARED.

......Wait wut?

My question is.......am I reading this wrong, or is this saying that, as long as you use your pact magic slots.....you can cast EVERY wizard spell you have, either known OR prepared?

It's been bugging me For a while now, and any light shed on this would be greatly apprec7ated.

[Naanomi]

Assuming your pact slots are high enough level, seems that way. Potential shenanigans around short-rest animate dead castings are well known

[CantigThimble]

Wizard spells are NEVER known. Only prepared, or sitting alone in your spellbook crying themselves to sleep. So while you could use it to cast wizard spells you have prepared you would not be able to cast the spells in your spellbook.

Also you could learn fireball as one of your warlock spells if you have the fiend as your patron.

[lunaticfringe]

No it must be Prepared if the Spellcaster must Prepare Spell, or just Known if it is a spontaneous caster. The language is vague because Wizards prepare spells & Sorcerers know them, both are Spellcasters though.

[Arkhios]

Prepared > Known, basically.
(Preparation overrules Knowing. A cleric, a land druid, or a paladin are good examples of this: each know a handful of spells at all times, but must prepare the rest of them in order to cast them).

As others have pointed out, if you must prepare spells to cast them, it applies to all spell slots you have, regardless of the source (pact magic vs spellcasting).

Preparing/knowing a spell is a function of the spells separate from casting them.

Wizard copies spells into his spellbook, so that he doesn't have to memorize (="known") all of them at once. Spellbook is for wizards like a recipe book is for cooks. It holds detailed instructions of a spell/recipe in order to produce the effect as accurately as possible.

(This made me think of an absent minded gourmand halfling wizard who is obsessed with keeping track of all of his spells and recipes in their respective books, and occasionally mixes a book with another. Might work as a funny NPC, if not a PC :P)

[Malifice]

Ok, I was discussing (unsuccessfully *cries*) with my DM the possibility of Fireball being learned by a warlock 5/wizard 3 (don't worry, I know it can't happen; this is about something else),

Fiend warlocks get access to fireball at 5th.


What I'm talking about is the section on pact magic in the multiclass section of the PHB; specifically where it states that a character with both pact magic and spellcasting can use pact magic slots to cast spellcasting spells the character knows OR HAS PREPARED.

......Wait wut?

My question is.......am I reading this wrong, or is this saying that, as long as you use your pact magic slots.....you can cast EVERY wizard spell you have, either known OR prepared?

Yes, a 'lock/ Wizard can use his pact magic slots to cast spells he knows as a wizard (as long as the slots are high enough level), and can prepare warlock spells he knows with his Wizard slots.

[lunaticfringe]

No he wants to know if he can cast Unprepared Wizard Spells from his Spellbook using his Warlock Spellslots.

Nope, He can only cast His Prepared Wizard Spells using his Warlock Slots.

[Malifice]

No he wants to know if he can cast Unprepared Wizard Spells from his Spellbook using his Warlock Spellslots.

Nope, He can only cast His Prepared Wizard Spells using his Warlock Slots.

Only prepared ones yup. And only if his 'lock slots are high enough level for the spell in question.

[Arkhios]

Only prepared ones yup. And only if his 'lock slots are high enough level for the spell in question.

Also, as this is often overlooked, your spellcasting modifier depends on the spell list you cast from, not on the spell slots you cast with.

E.G. even if you would cast a wizard spell using pact magic slots, your spell attack bonus or the Save DC would rely on intelligence, not on charisma because you would be casting a wizard spell.

[JackPhoenix]

Also, as this is often overlooked, your spellcasting modifier depends on the spell list you cast from, not on the spell slots you cast with.

E.G. even if you would cast a wizard spell using pact magic slots, your spell attack bonus or the Save DC would rely on intelligence, not on charisma because you would be casting a wizard spell.

Wait, really? How does it interact with cantrips? Can my death cleric/necromancer wizard cast Chill Touch with intelligence when he got it from domain?

[Erys]

Wait, really? How does it interact with cantrips? Can my death cleric/necromancer wizard cast Chill Touch with intelligence when he got it from domain?

No. This is only a warlock thing.

[Maxilian]

Wait, really? How does it interact with cantrips? Can my death cleric/necromancer wizard cast Chill Touch with intelligence when he got it from domain?

It takes the stat of whoever gave you the cantrip, so if you got the cantrip of your Cleric domain, is WIS, if you for some reason got it with both, you could choose

[CantigThimble]

Wait, really? How does it interact with cantrips? Can my death cleric/necromancer wizard cast Chill Touch with intelligence when he got it from domain?

It's based on the class you get it from, not the spell list you get it from.

[Arkhios]

Wait, really? How does it interact with cantrips? Can my death cleric/necromancer wizard cast Chill Touch with intelligence when he got it from domain?
No, while you choose spells from wizard list to add to your cleric list, they are cleric spells for you from that point forward.

No. This is only a warlock thing.
Umm. What?

[Grayfigure]

Thanks for the replies all. I kind of figured it was this way, so when I saw what looked like a discrepancy, I had my WTF moment, heh. When looking backing through the PHB at Wizard Spellcasting specifically, the only entry where it states that wizard spells are known is when youre copying them into your spellbook (in the Spellbook excerpt). Thats not really enough to stand on though, but it was enough to confuse me a bit apparently!


Also:

Also, as this is often overlooked, your spellcasting modifier depends on the spell list you cast from, not on the spell slots you cast with.

E.G. even if you would cast a wizard spell using pact magic slots, your spell attack bonus or the Save DC would rely on intelligence, not on charisma because you would be casting a wizard spell.

I honestly thought that was a 'You Understood' situation really. It always seemed to me that each spell list was treated separately when it comes to modifiers. I even mark on my Character Sheet which spells are Warlock Spells and which are Wizard Spells to make sure I plug in the right modifier lol.

[Erys]

Umm. What?

Too early to post clearly I guess. Ignore that post.

[CantigThimble]

As you wish, ignored.

[DivisibleByZero]

Thanks for the replies all. I kind of figured it was this way, so when I saw what looked like a discrepancy, I had my WTF moment, heh. When looking backing through the PHB at Wizard Spellcasting specifically, the only entry where it states that wizard spells are known is when youre copying them into your spellbook (in the Spellbook excerpt). Thats not really enough to stand on though, but it was enough to confuse me a bit apparently!

That's an important distinction that you picked up on, though.
What this means for a multiclass (and what many people miss) is that a wizard "learns" his spells by copying them into his spellbook, and this in turn means that you can only copy spells into your spellbook if you could cast them add a single classed wizard.

This is important because of rituals.

[Arial Black]

So your (non-Fiend) warlock 5/wizard 3 doesn't know fireball as a warlock spell because that spell is not on the warlock spell list, and can't have fireball in his spellbook because as a 3rd level wizard his max spell level for spells on his book are level 2.

When he gets to be War 5/Wiz 5, then he can put fireball into his spellbook, and use either his spellcasting slots or his pact magic slots to cast fireball (or any warlock spells he knows or any wizard spells he has prepared).

[Dalebert]

Yes, a 'lock/ Wizard can use his pact magic slots to cast spells he knows as a wizard (as long as the slots are high enough level), and can prepare warlock spells he knows with his Wizard slots.*

*emphasis mine

This jarred me. I think you meant to say "can cast warlock spells he knows with wizard slots". You don't prepare spells with slots.