Why isn't Skulker more ubiquitous?

[JellyPooga]

I think I kind of know the answer to my own question, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway. The question's in the title; why doesn't the Skulker Feat get more "screen time"?

I mean, Darkvision (or lack thereof) is a common point of discussion with regards to Humans, Halflings and Dragonborn. Warlocks with Darkness and Devil's Sight get mentioned at least once a week on the forums. Lighting issues are regularly handwaved by the liberal application of the Light cantrip...yet the Skulker Feat with it's negation of disadvantage on Perception checks due to poor lighting, such as the effective lighting provided by Darkvision (in total darkness), Dancing Lights and beyond 20ft for Light and torches almost never gets mentioned, let alone discussed as a valid option in "character build threads".

Disadvantage on Perception is a big deal in your average dungeon delve (-5 to Passive Perception is just the start of your problems) and that's exactly what most characters should be experiencing if the whole lighting issue isn't being hand-waved away. Traps, secret doors, hidden enemies...you probably shouldn't be detecting these until you're right on top of them and you probably shouldn't be detecting them at all if you're relying entirely on Darkvision.

How about while camping or resting? Not being able to see the enemy until they're 30ft away (which is probably the radius of bright light provided by your measly camp-fire, if it even provides that. The radius of bright light you get from a single Light cantrip, which is probably all the light you have in a dungeon or cave, is even less) is what I like to call "too late to be useful".

Skulker entirely negates this penalty; with it, Darkvision actually gives you a chance of operating effectively (i.e. not walking around bumping into stuff) in pitch darkness, Light provides a 40ft radius of "actually being able to notice things" and Dancing Lights can provide up to a 20ftx80ft "corridor" of dim light that you can see perfectly in. Not to mention Skulker allowing you to provide useful advance warning while you're "on watch" and everyone else is asleep.

So why is this Feat not included in more discussion along the same lines as the Darkness+Devil's Sight cheese, etc. just for the dim-light negation alone, let alone the rest of its effects? Has anyone used or seen it used in play? What builds might it suit best and what Class Features, other Feats and spells synergise well with it?

[smcmike]

As you said, I think you know the answer to your question. Lighting is very often hand waved, or misapplied.

[Naanomi]

Ironically I prefer it on characters *with* darkvision to combine and turn total darkness all the way up to no penalty

[Theodoxus]

Our drow ranger in an OotA game has it and basically has pissed off the DM to no end with his sniping with impunity. Not our fault the lighting is 9/10 darkness and 1/10 Dim. The only saving grace for the rest of us is Dawnbringer (that I wield mercilessly in front of the drow). It's a fun game of tactics, the drow types maneuvering around my variable light source... but I digress. Skulker is killer on the right class makeup. And probably really good on anyone else.

I think it just gets overshadowed by other feat taxes...

[TheUser]

Ironically I prefer it on characters *with* darkvision to combine and turn total darkness all the way up to no penalty
I came here to say this, also after enough abuse your DM will just start making dim light more of a thing and darkness less available because they might get tired of your darkness shenanigans.

[Finieous]

I didn't really grasp how much we were hand-waving lighting until I started playing in Roll20 games with dynamic lighting. It's a feature that really changes the game and is really challenging to replicate (effectively and efficiently) without the technology.

[Estrillian]

I didn't really grasp how much we were hand-waving lighting until I started playing in Roll20 games with dynamic lighting. It's a feature that really changes the game and is really challenging to replicate (effectively and efficiently) without the technology.

Yes. Just reading this makes me think that I am handwaving lighting just too much, even for those with Darkvision. I do try and remind them that they can't see colour, and describe their darkvision as grainy grey light-enhancement style, but they probably see far too much in any case.

[MaxWilson]

Ironically I prefer it on characters *with* darkvision to combine and turn total darkness all the way up to no penalty

Even more important is the fact that it allows you to hide in darkness from creatures with Darkvision. That turns a Rogue into almost a literal ghost.

However, it depends upon how your DM runs stealth. Some DMs (including myself) allow certain senses such as a Black Pudding's blindsight (which I interpret as "sense of smell") to bypass Dexterity (Stealth) completely. If players aren't certain of the effects of stealth on a solo scout, they may be less likely to invest in feats like Skulker which support stealth.

[BigONotation]

If a DM punishes someone with the Skulker feat that's laughable.

As has been pointed out, using something to visualize what they can/can't see like Roll20 absolutely allows people to appreciate all manner of vision.

[JellyPooga]

However, it depends upon how your DM runs stealth. Some DMs (including myself) allow certain senses such as a Black Pudding's blindsight (which I interpret as "sense of smell") to bypass Dexterity (Stealth) completely. If players aren't certain of the effects of stealth on a solo scout, they may be less likely to invest in feats like Skulker which support stealth.

While I agree that Skulker specifically relates to visual perception (at least with regards to Dim Light, the other two effects are arguable), I'd like to make a quick comment on Stealth vs. unusual senses.

Stealth is usually rolled against Dex because visual and auditory perception are typically foiled by moving quietly and carefully, both of which require a degree of agility. Nothing, however, prevents a character from rolling Stealth with a different Ability Score, given the right circumstances and/or equipment. Rolling Intelligence (Stealth) against your Black Pudding, for example, using another creature or pungent object to mask your own scent somehow, might be an option.

Whether you want to ask for a separate roll such as Arcana, to identify and know that the creature uses that sense, or perhaps Perception to notice the way it's detecting its targets, is up to you as GM. Keying the Stealth roll off of Int or Wis, respectively, is enough for me (at least) to subsume that identification into the single stealth check.

A word of caution: if you tell your players something, be sure that they'll remember it and if possible, abuse that information. e.g. if you let on that Black Puddings rely on scent to "see", they'll be asking whether Stinking Cloud "blinds" them or where they can get hold of some skunks.

[DireSickFish]

I handwave the **** out of lighting. After 2 hours of fighting through caves I'll go, "Wait how can you -see- in here?". Then someone strikes a torch or casts light and we call it good enough.

[odigity]

Feats/ASIs are rare and precious; I'm always struggling to decided what to take and when, and always feel like I've made a great sacrifice after reaching a decision. I just almost never have room for a feat that I feel I can survive without. Afterall, it's not the end of the world if you don't notice your enemy a little sooner, and you only really need one person in the party with good vision/perception to notice most things.

Edit: Maybe they should have broken up feats into full feats and half feats. Make the obviously powerful feats (GW Master, Polearm Master, Lucky, Magic Initiate, etc) cost a full feats, and make the minor perk feats cost a half feat, so you can pick up two of them for a single ASI, or 1 half feat and a +1 to any stat. Then I'd consider dabbling more in nice-to-haves and flavorful feats, like Skulker or Athlete or Actor.

Edit2: At which point, it'd be nice to grant all chars a half feat at level 1 (which couldn't be used for a +1 to any stat). That would encourage some lesser feats to become more common and help distinguish chars, which tend to be very similar when played by optimizing players.