Centaur Barbarian 7 hoof attack questions ...

[smetzger]

So, Centaur Barbarian 7 ECL 12 (bought down 1 LA)

Centaur Base Attack: +4
Barbarian Base Attack: +7
Strength 30 : +10 hit
Size adjustment: -1

So, with a melee weapon to hit is +20/+15/+10

What about the two hoof attacks?
What about the damage adjustment for the hoof attacks?

[Hiro Quester]

You make all hoof attacks (as with other natural weapons) as secondary attacks, at -5 BAB; after all your iterative primary weapon attacks.

[thecrimsondawn]

Please correct me if I am wrong here, as its been a while since I played 3.5, but if you pick up the Two Weapon Fighting feat, it becomes Multi weapon fighting, lowering your -5 natural attacks to -2 instead. Or was it called Multi Attack?

Either way, Savage Species splat book has the answer to most of these kinda questions if I remember right.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Please correct me if I am wrong here, as its been a while since I played 3.5, but if you pick up the Two Weapon Fighting feat, it becomes Multi weapon fighting, lowering your -5 natural attacks to -2 instead. Or was it called Multi Attack?

Either way, Savage Species splat book has the answer to most of these kinda questions if I remember right.

Multiweapon fighting is Two-Weapon Fighting for creatures with 3 or more arms, which Centaur's do not have. You are thinking of Multiattack, which Centaur's do not qualify for.

[Thurbane]

As others have pointed out, using your hooves in conjunction with a manufactured weapon makes them secondary natural attacks, taking -5 to hit and only adding 1/2 Str bonus to damage (1d6+5, in your case).

To qualify for Multiattack (which would reduce the penalties to -2 to hit instead of -5), you need to somehow acquire another natural weapon. Deformity (bite) would do the trick - but honestly, that's a big feat investment for little payoff. You're going to be doing the vast majority of damage with your primary weapon anyone, and there are much more efficient uses of feats for your build. Unless you can get some sort of rider effect (energy drain, paralysis etc.) on your natural attacks, I wouldn't bother.

[Necroticplague]

Multiweapon fighting is Two-Weapon Fighting for creatures with 3 or more arms, which Centaur's do not have. You are thinking of Multiattack, which Centaur's do not qualify for.

They do qualify for Multiattack. They have three natural weapons: an unarmed strike and two hooves.

[Thurbane]

They do qualify for Multiattack. They have three natural weapons: an unarmed strike and two hooves.

I'm pretty sure that unarmed attacks don't count as "natural weapons" in that way. Even a monk has the following stipulation:


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Also, FWIW - Unarmed Attacks (Part Two) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070403a):


A feat that requires natural weaponry as a prerequisite, such as Multiattack, doesn't work with unarmed strikes.

[smetzger]

You make all hoof attacks (as with other natural weapons) as secondary attacks, at -5 BAB; after all your iterative primary weapon attacks.

Thanks,

What about the damage modifier from strength? Is it 2 less than your strength modifier? So in this case 1d6+8.

Found it in Savage Species... 1/2 strength bonus for hoof attacks. So... 1d6+5 in this case

[Darrin]

Also, FWIW - Unarmed Attacks (Part Two) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070403a):



Skip is wrong. Unarmed strikes count as natural weapons for the purposes of effects, which includes feats. The rules aren't EXPLICITLY clear on this, but there are enough examples with RAW support that I would say using IUS to qualify for Multiattack is pretty solid rules-wise.

There's a question of whether all creatures automatically have unarmed strike as a natural weapon without taking Improved Unarmed Strike. That's not so clear... I'd say "No" because I don't really see any evidence in print that anything other than a PC would try to use an unarmed strike without having IUS first.