View Full Version : Aaargh! To many classes! Not enough levels!

2007-07-09, 02:26 PM
Looking for advice on how to build a character concept I have in mind. Here's what I've been thinking (Warning: This is kinda long. You can skip it, but it might help if you do read it)

It all started when I got thinking about were-critters; I was looking through the "animals" section of the MM to see what critters would make good were's and stumbled across the Eagle...80ft fly speed, no Str penalty, dex and con bonus' and a racial Spot bonus? Not too shabby, thinks I.

So there I was thinking about Were-Eagles and the visuals and potential character motivations behind them and thought "Hey, eagles have a pretty distinctive cry and it's possible that a were-eagle might cry out eagle-style when it takes on hybrid form...kind of intimidate-y style of thing going on. Yeah, that'd be cool."

Suddenly it struck me: The Wildrunner Prestige Class from Races of the Wild. Its primary ability is Primal Scream and rage/frenzy style of ability that also has some other effects...perfect for this "intimidat-y eagles scream" thing I had in mind. One of the requirements for the PrC is to be an Elf or Half-Elf and it's pretty much designed for Rangers.

So I had some basics: 1-Were-Eagle, 2-Elf (I don't like Half-Elves much), 3-Heading for Wildrunner PrC

Things were going fine up to that point...I've got my Elven Were-Eagle who's going into this PrC. All I have to do is fiddle with the basics (Base Class, etc.) and make up a backstory and personality and such and I'm laughing. Thinking that Ranger is the best entry point I explore that option...oh look, Elves have a Racial Substitution Level for Ranger...Bad-A. So I read up on this particular RSL and find that they get super-bonuses if they take Favoured enemy of Orcs or Undead. I think "Hmm, just Orcs is a bit limited, I'll go with Undead".

Fine, no problems so far...but...then I think "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if he was some kind of righteous Undead Hunter type dude, yeah, wasn't there a PrC in Complete Warrior that focused on Hunting Undead?"...So I go and dig out my copy of Complete Warrior and there it is the Hunter of the Undead PrC. "Great" I think...then I see the entry requirements...Turn Undead? Oh crap, Rangers don't get that, what does, but still keeps in with my 'martial focus' theme here...Paladin. Oh good, lets look into that then. Lo and behold, Elves have a RSL for Paladins too. Hmm, looking closer, Pallys don't get Turn Undead until, like 5th level or something...what else do they get? Ooo, Special Mount? That sounds tasty...wait, what's this the Elf Pally RSL gives you a Unicorn Special Mount? Bad. F-ing. A. Wasn't there a feat in Complete Adventureer that let you stack an Animal Companions abilities onto your Paladin Special Mounts existing ones as well? Cool, lets go for that. I can see this guy, riding his Unicorn buddy around his homeland seeking out Undead to get holy on their asses, then turning into an Eagle and flying off into the sunset. Yeah, Elven Avenger, Defender of the Woodlands, Scourge of those that would pollute this Land...this guy is gonna be BAAAAD-A.

Whilst thinking about this (and playing out this dudes grand exploits in my mind), I start thinking about him being an Elf again and start looking at Elf-only stuff (which there is an awful lot of)...so, flicking through the various splat books I have, I come up with Champion of Corellon Larethian (or however it's spelt), Darkwood Stalker, Bladesinger, Arcane Archer...aaargh! there's too many..."O.k." I think "Darkwood Stalker is pretty cool, but I'm going down the 'Undead Enemy' route rather than the 'Orc Enemy' route, so that's out. Bladesinger and Arcane Archer can go too, I'm not into the whole spellcasting thing. Hmmm, Champion of CL...that kind of fits you know, what with this Wildrunner Dex boost thing and riding a Unicorn and all...proper Elf Champion Finesse Fighter type...yeah that can go into the melting pot as well."

Then I think, hey, this guys still a Were-Eagle, isn't there some exploration to be had here? So flicking through Complete Warrior (which I have to hand having just been looking up HotU) and wow, there it is, War Shaper...a shapeshifters dream. Wow, easy entry requirements too. Lets put that on the list as well. Then there's all the aerial feats in Races of the Wild to consider too...

....Wait a minute, this is all starting to rack up a bit here; Were-Eagle, Ranger, Paladin, Wildrunner, Hunter of the Undead, Champion of CL, War Shaper...I'm going to struggle to fit all of this in....especially if I'm trying to get this Unicorn Special Mount/Animal Companion in there too. I'm racking up to, like, level 30-odd to get all of the stuff I want in...I'm going to have to cut this back a bit...Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure how to...

So, here I am, relating the past couple of hours of my brain to you guys in the hope that you might be able to help.

So, I need some advice on buiding this character with the following as key points (in decending order of importance):

2)Wildrunner (therefore 'Elf' as well)
3)Woodland Defender/Champion type
4)Finesse Fighter/Woodland Archer (not the feat) type...little to no spellcasting.
5)Special Mount/Animal Companion
6)Specialist Undead Fighter

(Books I have: Complete (Adventurer, Arcane, Divine and Warrior), Races of (Destiny, the Dragon and the Wild), Libris Mortis, PHB, MM and DMG)

Anyways, sorry this is so long, but I'm hoping someone can help with this 'cos it's likely to be my character in an upcoming game and I really like the concept (and visuals therein). Level isn't really an issue (but no higher than Character Level 20). I'm just looking for a good way of incorporating all of the ideas I have for this guy into one nice little build (optimisation isn't an issue, but I don't exactly want him to be crap, but on the other hand, I don't want him to be totally cheesed or anything either...not that that's likely to happen with a were-eagle anyway...)

2007-07-09, 02:34 PM
You might want to post this here, in the character-builder thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18300). Make sure you read the first post for instructions though.

2007-07-09, 02:35 PM
Ranger satisfies most of your requirements, specifically, 4-6. Just take undead as your favored enemy, you already get little to no spellcasting and if you want none there is a non-casting variant in Complete Warrior, and you get an animal companion. 3 is mostly a role-playing thing and I believe Wildrunner is a prestige class.

2007-07-09, 02:40 PM
Haaaahahahahhahhhaaaa... *cough* No, sorry, I'm not actually laughing at you. I'm just laughing because I see such a kindrid spirit there. I get this wonderfully weird character concept in my head, and I just *can't* get it onto paper. Not because of lack of options, but because each option requires some weird specific path and I end up with a 20th level monstrocity before getting anywhere close to the idea I had. And since I tend to play from 1st level on, I almost never get there.

I wish I could help, but I can't. There are build-meisters on this board though who can. I don't know if they'll touch one *that* complex though. I've only hit them up with the simpler ones before.

2007-07-09, 02:46 PM
Yeah, Ranger is the most simplified thing of what you're looking for, though a Ranger/Scout has it's perks. There's a feat in Complte Scoundrel (if you know someone who has it) that allows you to deal skirmish damage to favored enemies, even though they're normally immune. As well, it stacks Ranger and Scout levels for Skirmish and Favored Enemy, so it's pretty much win-win for alot of your ideas.
Wild Runner is a decent class for what you want, if I remember correctly.

2007-07-09, 03:05 PM
There is a feat in Complete Scoundrel that allows to combine ranger and scout levels for favoured enemies and skirmish and also allows to make skirmish damage on onrmally immune creatures that are your favourite enemy. This requires multiclassing that delays ranger spellcasting progression and makes a good archer build.

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-09, 03:16 PM
Haaaahahahahhahhhaaaa... *cough* No, sorry, I'm not actually laughing at you. I'm just laughing because I see such a kindrid spirit there. I get this wonderfully weird character concept in my head, and I just *can't* get it onto paper. Not because of lack of options, but because each option requires some weird specific path and I end up with a 20th level monstrocity before getting anywhere close to the idea I had. And since I tend to play from 1st level on, I almost never get there.

nth'd for truth.

2007-07-09, 03:18 PM
What is the LA on your lycanthrope?

2007-07-09, 03:26 PM
What is the LA on your lycanthrope?

I'm tempted to say +3 for a Natural Lycanthrope, for background/fluff reasons, but on the other hand a +2 for Afflicted might be better for build...

Either/or really. Go with Natural (+3)...if it works out that I need an extra level, I can always change it to Afflicted (before actually using the character obviously).

Oh yeah and don't forget the 1 Animal HD too.

2007-07-09, 03:36 PM

Take a lot of bow-related feats; see if your DM will let you get rid of spell-casting in favor of getting a bonus feat whenever you would get a new spell level (that's the non-spellcasting variant used in Rokugan, and it would work well with this concept).

2007-07-10, 12:32 AM
Ranger X/Paladin Y/Wildrunner Z(depending on which level of Primal Scream you feel comfortable cutting off at). Hunter of the Dead isn't really that important. Warshaper might seem nice, but you need a Standard Action for each change(of natural weapons, one of the better class features is speeding up your regular shifting).