Ways to abuse minor alchemy (transmutation wizard)

[NecroDancer]

I think this ability seems super weak, am I right or is there some neat trick you can do with it?

[JellyPooga]

Aside from forging a sale of iron bars as silver before you're about to leave town, I can't really think of anything actually useful.

There's an argument for the likes of turning a stone or iron door into wood, or even turning individual stones to wood, should you need to dig your way through a wall, but I can't imagine many circumstances where you'd want to spend that much time on it.

I suppose being able to turn stone or wood (which are not malleable) into copper (which is) and back would allow you to craft exceptional and unique pieces of craftsmanship, such as jewelry and architecture, but again it's just a way of making a little extra coin (albeit a touch more legally than forgery).

[Slayn82]

Turn small rough gems into silver, melt those together in a bar and create a bigger and exponentially more valuable gem? Weld together pieces of the same material by turning it into another material that can be fused? Buy valuable marble, turn it into wood, carve it faster and easier, and let it turn back into stone? Turn Iron chests/locks/chains into wood and break/burn it? Make metalic tools by carving then in wood? Making Silver projectiles (bullets/arrows).

[Discord]

Its not raw. But for a campaign I played in recently. We went to a restaurant that claimed it could make anything. Come to find out the restaurant was owned by a master transmuter. Transmutting food for the texture and Prestdigitation for the flavor. He guraranteed the best food as long as you ate it in an hour.

My character was so impressed he started practicing how to do the same. He couldnt get it exactly right though (being a sorcerer).

[Vogonjeltz]

I think this ability seems super weak, am I right or is there some neat trick you can do with it?

Away from book, but it would be useful for swindling or breaking objects more easily I suppose.

[lunaticfringe]

Turn small rough gems into silver, melt those together in a bar and create a bigger and exponentially more valuable gem?

It expressly states it doesn't work on gemstones. Campaigns in prison or assassination attempts have potential to allow it to be abused. It's extremely Situational, wouldn't necessarily call it weak. Ribbon Ability I think one UA called it.

[R.Shackleford]

The best use would probabaly be used to overcome resistances and immunities to damage by changing weapons into silver/whatever metal thr DM says overcomes a creature (I still use cold iron, mithril, and silver... a monster will always be hurt fully by one of those).

[MasterMercury]

Turn stone or iron wall into wood, burn wood, rinse repeat. Get through a stone wall twice as fast as the dwarven mason.
Side note: Are there any tweaks people have to making it a bit more useful. I've had the idea of allowing it to be permanent once per short rest, but you can't use the ability after making something permanent until you rest.

[Dalebert]

Side note: Are there any tweaks people have to making it a bit more useful.

Make it faster. Maybe a minute. Maybe even an action but you can only have one thing transmuted at a time. Is that already the case? Can't recall.

[Scathain]

The best use would probabaly be used to overcome resistances and immunities to damage by changing weapons into silver/whatever metal thr DM says overcomes a creature (I still use cold iron, mithril, and silver... a monster will always be hurt fully by one of those).

Seconding this. In a CoS game I played a fighter/cleric in, I was very appreciative of the transmuter on our team. My DM was initially against the idea of transmuting weapons due to the "composed entirely of X" section of the description, until I proposed simply breaking my sword at the hilt, letting the transmuter have his way with it, then using a mending spell to fix the break.

[JellyPooga]

The best use would probabaly be used to overcome resistances and immunities to damage by changing weapons into silver/whatever metal thr DM says overcomes a creature (I still use cold iron, mithril, and silver... a monster will always be hurt fully by one of those).

The biggest issues I have with this are it's only ever one weapon, it takes 10 minutes to "cast" and it eats your Concentration. Not exactly an "on the fly" sort of ability and there are probably better spells for you to have active than maintaining the Fighter's silver sword. This is a limited and circumstantial use at best, unless you're playing a campaign with loads of werewolves and no silver. Strictly speaking you can't use it to transmute into the other rare metals; mithril, adamantine or cold iron.

[R.Shackleford]

The biggest issues I have with this are it's only ever one weapon, it takes 10 minutes to "cast" and it eats your Concentration. Not exactly an "on the fly" sort of ability and there are probably better spells for you to have active than maintaining the Fighter's silver sword. This is a limited and circumstantial use at best, unless you're playing a campaign with loads of werewolves and no silver. Strictly speaking you can't use it to transmute into the other rare metals; mithril, adamantine or cold iron.

Depends on what's rare.

But adamantine is only in the magic item section so I'm not sure you could ever change something into it.

Mithril is sometimes quite popular in a setting.

Cold iron isn't a rare metal. It's iton that went through a specific process to make, totally reasonable to allow.

This process would be done during a short or long rest. During a time that you are know you are going up against a soecific creature.

You don't need to give everyone this new weapon, just your primary weapon damage dealer.


"We know where the were-demon is hiding, after we rest a bit we will storm i to its den. Yo, barbarian, come here for a few minutes.... *iron to copper* there now the were-demon won't resist your damage".

[JellyPooga]

Depends on what's rare.

Well, not really. The ability states only three metals; iron, copper and silver, as well as wood and stone (including the caveat about precious stones, such as gems). This specifically excludes anything but the materials listed.

I would probably not allow a transmutation to Cold Iron (if you decide it's a thing in 5ed) because although it is iron, as far as I understand, it's a semi-mystical property predicated on a particular smelting and forging process, so unless the original weapon/object was crafted using that process it would not have the requisite properties of Cold Iron that make it useful against the likes of Fey and Demons (or is it Devils? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html)). I would probably allow a transmutation from Cold Iron and back, however. Just the way I'd run it myself.

As you say, used during a short/long rest before a fight you know that a silver weapon is going to be handy (and I'll reiterate the fact that it's only ever one weapon), you might see this use come into play. Having that much prep time whilst knowing what's ahead is typically a rare circumstance, though. This is a situational circumstance at best, at least in my experience.

Additionally, as I mentioned, it still uses your concentration as well, so unless this foe that has resistance or immunity to non-silvered weapons is weak enough that you wouldn't to want to use a more useful concentration spell on defeating it, then you're almost always going to want something more useful active. If it is so weak that expending spell slots isn't an option, then why not just Firebolt it to death? If foes with resistance/immunity to non-silvered weapons are particularly common, then getting your hands on an actually silvered weapon is going to be much more efficient.

In short, I'm struggling to envision a circumstance in which I'd actually employ this use of the ability. Enabling a melee-focused member of the party against a werewolf might be great at lower levels before you get your hands on "the real thing" or a magic sword. How often do you even encounter such creatures at those low levels, though? Especially with that much forewarning. At higher levels, on the other hand? When you have throw away 1st and 2nd level slots that you could use on the likes of Magic Weapon, which achieves a better effect in a much shorter time-frame and on multiple targets. When you actually have magic or silvered weapons...Minor Alchemy has lost whatever lustre it once had.

[JackPhoenix]

Cold iron isn't a rare metal. It's iton that went through a specific process to make, totally reasonable to allow.


Here's your problem. What exactly is cold iron depends on source: A) special iron ore mined deep underground and then forged at low temperature to preserve its properties (Pathfinder, 3.5e), B) normal iron, just cold-forged (D&D 3e), C) just a poetic name for any kind of iron (mythology) D) pure(ish) iron, i.E not steel (Discworld, IIRC).

If its C or D, you can transmute it, it's just a normal iron (or steel), if it's B, you're out of luck, because the process is important, and you've skipped it, it's transmuted iron, not cold-forged iron, if it's A, it's up to the GM if the special ore counts as rare.

Also, in 3e, cold iron was resistant to magic and was impossible to create through magic, you'd get only normal iron... that was its whole point.

[R.Shackleford]

Here's your problem. What exactly is cold iron depends on source: A) special iron ore mined deep underground and then forged at low temperature to preserve its properties (Pathfinder, 3.5e), B) normal iron, just cold-forged (D&D 3e), C) just a poetic name for any kind of iron (mythology) D) pure(ish) iron, i.E not steel (Discworld, IIRC).

If its C or D, you can transmute it, it's just a normal iron (or steel), if it's B, you're out of luck, because the process is important, and you've skipped it, it's transmuted iron, not cold-forged iron, if it's A, it's up to the GM if the special ore counts as rare.

Also, in 3e, cold iron was resistant to magic and was impossible to create through magic, you'd get only normal iron... that was its whole point.

I really don't think process is important when you are transmuting.

That's kind of the point of transmutation magic.

[Specter]

It's a shame to see that some Wizard 2 abilities are always useful (Portent, Arcane Ward) and others merely ribbons that may be good with creativity (Minor Alchemy, Minor Conjuration).

[NecroDancer]

It's a shame to see that some Wizard 2 abilities are always useful (Portent, Arcane Ward) and others merely ribbons that may be good with creativity (Minor Alchemy, Minor Conjuration).

Minor conjugation is really good, you can make a steel box with a little hole in it and hid in the box while shooting spells through the hole

[JackPhoenix]

I really don't think process is important when you are transmuting.

That's kind of the point of transmutation magic.

If you go with that explaination (B) for cold iron, it is. Normal iron doesn't have any special demon-killing properties, but the one through the special crafting process does, even if the original ore was the same. Transmuted iron haven't got through that process, so it's just a normal iron.

By your logic, you could use it to create magic weapons, because magic weapon is just the same as normal weapon, only it got through a special process. (and no, Minor Alchemy technically doesn't forbid that, the original item must be non-magical, but no word about the result)

[smcmike]

Minor conjugation is really good, you can make a steel box with a little hole in it and hid in the box while shooting spells through the hole

Conjunction junction, what's your function?

A 3x3x3 box that you have to take an action to create, and action to climb into, limits your range of fire and movement, and disappears if it is damaged? Super useful!

[Mikey P]

If you go with that explaination (B) for cold iron, it is. Normal iron doesn't have any special demon-killing properties, but the one through the special crafting process does, even if the original ore was the same. Transmuted iron haven't got through that process, so it's just a normal iron.

By your logic, you could use it to create magic weapons, because magic weapon is just the same as normal weapon, only it got through a special process. (and no, Minor Alchemy technically doesn't forbid that, the original item must be non-magical, but no word about the result)

I think you've got that backwards. It's the "Process" of firing and purifying the cold iron in the ground that removed the property of being "Cold Iron" if you have Iron that has never been tempered, it should be "cold iron" be default.

The process of "cold firing" doesn't imbue the iron with anything, it just doesn't take the natural property away.

[Vogonjeltz]

It's a shame to see that some Wizard 2 abilities are always useful (Portent, Arcane Ward) and others merely ribbons that may be good with creativity (Minor Alchemy, Minor Conjuration).

Arcane Ward is only useful against damage, so that's not always, that's maybe 1/3rd of the game, and Portent only impacts dice rolls.

Minor Conjuration is supremely useful for breaking into or out of locations (conjure up the key once you've seen it, as one example).

Transmutation could be useful in a variety of circumstances, combat just isn't an obvious one because of the time requirements.

[MasterMercury]

Portent only impacts dice rolls.



Right. In a game based off dice rolls, an ability that directly impacts dice roles isn't that good.

[Vogonjeltz]

Right. In a game based off dice rolls, an ability that directly impacts dice roles isn't that good.

It's a limitation, dice rolls only apply to attacks, saving throws, and ability checks, which don't actually constitute the entire universe of things, just a reasonable portion of them. It's also limited by the bounds of what is achievable.

If achieving a thing requires a particular item, Portent won't help you out. If the randomized outcome of portent not an extreme (i.e. 1 or 20) Portent probably won't help at all, and if it is one of the extremes that still doesn't guarantee failure/success, nor for that matter can you use the 1 in situations where you needed the 20, so the numbers only potentially apply to half the circumstances and not the other half.

So yes, Portent is limited and is only going to apply for <50% of scenarios where it even can apply. Every 2nd level feature is somewhat useful, was my core point.

[MasterMercury]

So yes, Portent is limited and is only going to apply for <50% of scenarios where it even can apply. Every 2nd level feature is somewhat useful, was my core point.

Fair enough. I just really like the transmutation wizard, and wish this ability was a bit more useful. Even making it an action would be amazing.

"As I walk down the alley, I brush my hand against the wall, creating faint lines of silver in the dull stone."

[Addaran]

I also wish it was better. When i first read it i was super happy, it seemed like a very cool and flavorful ability. But then you realize that you're either constantly taking a break to cast it or you need to know that in the next room there's a werewolf and he won't come to you if you start your little ritual.

Should have made it so that it can last 24h or just an action to use.

[Vogonjeltz]

Fair enough. I just really like the transmutation wizard, and wish this ability was a bit more useful. Even making it an action would be amazing.

"As I walk down the alley, I brush my hand against the wall, creating faint lines of silver in the dull stone."

Ah yeah that would be cool if it were an on demand thing. Might be power imbalancing given the duration though.

[MasterMercury]

Ah yeah that would be cool if it were an on demand thing. Might be power imbalancing given the duration though.
How is the ability to turn something into silver for an hour (with concentration) unbalanced? I mean, seriously, it would be a lot of fun to use adventuring, but not so much in any combat encounter. Especially for a wizard who probably wants to use fly or polymorph.

[tsotate]

Its not raw. But for a campaign I played in recently. We went to a restaurant that claimed it could make anything. Come to find out the restaurant was owned by a master transmuter. Transmutting food for the texture and Prestdigitation for the flavor. He guraranteed the best food as long as you ate it in an hour.

That seems like a great way to get really, really sick an hour later.

[unwise]

In every campaign we play, any use of magic for economic sabotage (charm, transmuting, illusions, etc) is punishable by gruesome death. We figure that that is just the way the world has to work for there to be a functional economy, nations would fall otherwise.

Basically I use transmutation incompletely the opposite way than most charlatans, my favorite trick was turning something valuable into something worthless. I then falsely accuse other people of using magic. So I would get paid for something, then show the cops that the gold coins I was paid with are slowly turning 'back' into lead. I caused a lot of trouble like that. I'm the one getting screwed, so nobody ever suspects I am the bad guy in these capers.

I also transmuted valuable items as part of a heist. Basically I walk in, transmute the item ever so slightly, then go to the museum curator and point out the 'fake'. It gets the cops involved, I am seen to the a helpful innocent party, but now the 'fake' item is not securely guarded and is most likely now only in a store room or a less secure evidence locker, rather than a high security museum.

[CursedRhubarb]

I always thought it was more of a utility and rp tool than a combat tool. I mean, a Transmutation Wizard with Woodworking tool proficiency would be able to make bank during downtime.
Buy, or get hired by someone who has, a block of silver, marble, iron, or other fancy material. Turn it to wood and carve. When it turns back you have a finely carved statue of expensive material that can sell for more than the block.

Make weapons faster than a Smith:
Buy a block of material, turn to wood and carve out spearheads, blades, hammerheads, etc.. When back to normal, finely crafted weaponry! Attach spearhead to a quarterstaff to make a full spear.

Rogue fail that lockpick to open the treasure chest? Turn the lock to wood and get in easily so the barbarian doesn't damage the goods.

Need to bribe some guards? Keep a pouch of wooden coins, turn them silver and good to go, just be swift and take a different exit.

Weight management:(this can be scary depending on how you use it)
Need to lower your weight for a bit? Turn your gold to balsa wood.
Need some weight to throw(drop) around? Carry a 1ft cube of balsa wood. Turn it to solid gold and presto! Fun interrogation method, set the block on a guy and start the casting to change it as the face person questions. If they don't give up the info, ouch. (I figure when changing things It could be either instant once casting is done or gradually changed over the cast time)

1 cubic foot of balsa wood = 8-14lbs. Depending on type.
1 cubic foot of solid gold = 1,204lbs.

(Gradual change would be a gain or loss of about 2lbs/second with balsa/gold transmutation)

[smcmike]

I always thought it was more of a utility and rp tool than a combat tool. I mean, a Transmutation Wizard with Woodworking tool proficiency would be able to make bank during downtime.


I agree that this is a good use for it. However...



Buy, or get hired by someone who has, a block of silver, marble, iron, or other fancy material. Turn it to wood and carve. When it turns back you have a finely carved statue of expensive material that can sell for more than the block.

This seems like it would work well for an improvement of carving time for marble. Iron, on the other hand, is not a fancy material. Silver is, but silverwork is usually far finer in detail than woodwork - I'm pretty confident that it's easier to make a silver chain for a necklace than a wood chain. Also, what do you do with all the silver you shave off in the woodworking process?



Make weapons faster than a Smith:
Buy a block of material, turn to wood and carve out spearheads, blades, hammerheads, etc.. When back to normal, finely crafted weaponry! Attach spearhead to a quarterstaff to make a full spear.

You can't transmute steel, and I don't think a carved blade is going to be as fine as a properly forged one. This might work for rough ironwork, I guess, though you still have some significant limitations compared with a smith, since smiths can bend the original shape, or beat it into new shapes, while a carver can only cut.



Rogue fail that lockpick to open the treasure chest? Turn the lock to wood and get in easily so the barbarian doesn't damage the goods.


Yes, this is good.



Need to bribe some guards? Keep a pouch of wooden coins, turn them silver and good to go, just be swift and take a different exit.


The most obvious use, though for ten minutes of preparation, I think I'd rather keep a pouch of silver coins and actually bribe the guards.



Weight management:(this can be scary depending on how you use it)
Need to lower your weight for a bit? Turn your gold to balsa wood.
Need some weight to throw(drop) around? Carry a 1ft cube of balsa wood. Turn it to solid gold and presto! Fun interrogation method, set the block on a guy and start the casting to change it as the face person questions. If they don't give up the info, ouch. (I figure when changing things It could be either instant once casting is done or gradually changed over the cast time)

You can't transmute gold. I guess there might be some tricks with this in some situations, though.... I'm imagining tying someone to an anvil, transmuting it to wood, throwing them in the water, and interrogating them....

[EvilAnagram]

I've used it to escape from prisons and create ad hoc silver weapons for fighting werewolves.

[CursedRhubarb]

Completely spaced you can't make gold XD silver is a nice backup at 655lbs per square foot.

Making a chain from wood is indeed hard and can be very annoying, I was thinking more on making statues, dishware and the like.

For weapons, copper, brass, iron work. And woodworking can get very fine detail as you aren't limited to just a chisel. You can use chisel, saw, knives, sandpaper, hooks, scrapers, files, drills, and there are specialty woodworking tools that look like things from a red room for even more fine detail. I have made a wooden blade before and they can be just as sharp as metal, though they blunt quickly.

Shavings and dust can be melted down and reused once it turns back.

Yaaaaay Fine Arts degree has a new use XD

[smcmike]

Completely spaced you can't make gold XD silver is a nice backup at 655lbs per square foot.

Making a chain from wood is indeed hard and can be very annoying, I was thinking more on making statues, dishware and the like.

For weapons, copper, brass, iron work. And woodworking can get very fine detail as you aren't limited to just a chisel. You can use chisel, saw, knives, sandpaper, hooks, scrapers, files, drills, and there are specialty woodworking tools that look like things from a red room for even more fine detail. I have made a wooden blade before and they can be just as sharp as metal, though they blunt quickly.

Shavings and dust can be melted down and reused once it turns back.

Yaaaaay Fine Arts degree has a new use XD

Sure, but if you are melting things down in the end, it isn't necessarily saving that much labor. I guess you're right that there are some things that woodworking would make more easily than metalworking, though you would still need to start with much larger chunk of material than if you weren't doing any cutting.

I almost feel like it would be more useful to work the other way, though. Wood is cheaper than metal, and if you can turn it into metal and beat it into whatever shape you want, then turn it back, you've got a lot of new options.

Or, step 1: turn wood or stone to metal. Step 2: melt metal, add more metal. Step: 3 cool, shape, end concentration - now you've got a mixture of the base material and metal?

As far as cutting a blade out of wood, then reverting to metal, I was more think that stamped or cut metal blades would be inferior to forged blades.

[CursedRhubarb]

I almost feel like it would be more useful to work the other way, though. Wood is cheaper than metal, and if you can turn it into metal and beat it into whatever shape you want, then turn it back, you've got a lot of new options.

Metal is fun to work with but it can be a major pain. To make a solid metal statue you can't just bang on a block and get it. You have to start with a different material (wax being the most common) and carve/build it from that. Then make a mold around the wax sculpture, normally from a plaster or ceramic. Then once the mold dries completely you bake it in a furnace to burn the wax out so it melts and runs or turns to ash. Then you secure the mold (encasing it in sand works wonders) so you can pour molten metal into it. Then you let that cool for a few days. Once cool you open the mold, if in parts pry it open, or more commonly smash the plaster carefully. Then you remove excess plaster, trim overflow that went into vent shafts in the mold or any flaring from cracks. Now you have a very rough piece and it will need trimming, sanding, buffing, and polishing.

[smcmike]

Metal is fun to work with but it can be a major pain. To make a solid metal statue you can't just bang on a block and get it. You have to start with a different material (wax being the most common) and carve/build it from that. Then make a mold around the wax sculpture, normally from a plaster or ceramic. Then once the mold dries completely you bake it in a furnace to burn the wax out so it melts and runs or turns to ash. Then you secure the mold (encasing it in sand works wonders) so you can pour molten metal into it. Then you let that cool for a few days. Once cool you open the mold, if in parts pry it open, or more commonly smash the plaster carefully. Then you remove excess plaster, trim overflow that went into vent shafts in the mold or any flaring from cracks. Now you have a very rough piece and it will need trimming, sanding, buffing, and polishing.

I was more imagining use for structural elements, particularly where a curve is necessary - bending wood is possible, but a bit of a pain.

Also, for joints - carve some wooden nails, turn them to iron, drive them, let them return to wood. Cheap.

[Zorku]

Anybody got a solid ruling on how this interacts with petrification, or is it pretty much just down to whatever someone can talk their DM into?

[MasterMercury]

Anybody got a solid ruling on how this interacts with petrification, or is it pretty much just down to whatever someone can talk their DM into?

Any particular ideas in mind?

Edit: thought of some
Turning them into wood so you can transport them easier.
Into iron to make them more durable
Into silver to make a quick buck

Could you turn them into metal, melt them down into a cube, and then one day when you feel like it zap the cube with greater restoration?

Maybe off topic, but how does breaking a stone warrior affect them when they are turned back?

[Zorku]

Any particular ideas in mind?

Edit: thought of some
Turning them into wood so you can transport them easier.
Into iron to make them more durable
Into silver to make a quick buck

Could you turn them into metal, melt them down into a cube, and then one day when you feel like it zap the cube with greater restoration?

Maybe off topic, but how does breaking a stone warrior affect them when they are turned back?

Well I was thinking potentially cheap plastic surgery (if you can find someone with a cockatrice on a leash and some wooden slats operated remotely...) but that worked better in 3.5 where you had spells for shaping stone instead of just loose Earth. Woodworking would take some smooth talking (to the DM,) to not just have someone come out of it with patches of skin shaved off.

But in general there ought to be lots of fun to be had with things that will accept a statue as a target that wouldn't have accepted a living creature as a target.

[Dalebert]

What happens if you turn metal to wood and then burn it to ash. What is it when it turns back?

[Segev]

What happens if you turn metal to wood and then burn it to ash. What is it when it turns back?

Instead of a pile of thoroughly oxidized carbon dust, you have a pile of thoroughly oxidized metal dust. So, if it was iron or steel, rust.

[CursedRhubarb]

Combined with the Fabricate spell, you could make items with two different materials and if you're proficient with a trade tool you can even make them detailed or even armor and weapons. Possibly being able to create silvered weapons since, with smithing tool proficiency, you could turn a bar of silver to iron, add actual iron bars and wood/bone, coal, and Fabricate both iron sources with the coal to make a steel blade, smithing skill let's you make it usable, bone or wood for the handle, and have a nice blade. When the silver returns, it's already fused in with the steel. could also be used to make "Ironwood" Armors for the druid

Make fake silver coins:
Bag of copper coins and a handful of silver coins. Transmute the silver to copper then fabricate the silver to "coat" the copper coins. When silver returns to normal it's fused with the copper and won't flake off.

[Zorku]

What happens if you turn metal to wood and then burn it to ash. What is it when it turns back?

Same thing that happens if disintigrate reduces an animal-shape'd druid to dust. When they revert from animal form back to humanoid form the animal dust turns into humanoid dust.

I do wonder if there's some kind of middling stage though- like where you turn a bunch of logs into charcoal. The low oxygen fire has largely prepared it to burn very well when heated in more open air conditions, but I'm not familiar enough with what that actually means on a chemical level- just dehydration and burning off the less energetic carbon chains?

Welp, guess I've got a wikipedia dive lined up for tonight.

[NackterGolfer]

Ok this is what i got:

2 things don't change with the transmutation. First the shape, which there are many examples of uses in this thread already.
But the second thing is volume. Now let's exploit this.

Take a supercooled (with magic) silver sphere with volume VCoolSilver. Transmute it into a supercooled Iron Sphere with volume VCoolSilver, because the volume stays the same, right?
Now begin heating up the Iron with some magic spell I guess. The sphere will begin to expand to VHotIron.
We know also that VHotIron > VCoolSilver. Let's call that change VChangeIron.
Drop the transmutation, you now have a hot silver sphere with volume VHotIron. When you supercool it again, it will shrink to VShrinkedSilver.

I know that copper has low thermal movement/expansion, and silver has lots of similarities with copper.

So VShrinkedSilver > VCoolSilver. We made silver out of nothing. That's because VChangeIron > VChangeSilver.

Hope I expressed myself well enough, because I'm not a native speaker and i have a headache. I can't do the math. Sorry. But maybe someone can.
cheers

edit: embarrassing oversights in spelling removed.
edit2: why didn't I see this earlier... wikipedia:
Iron Thermal expansion 11.8 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)
Silver Thermal expansion 18.9 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)
Don't know how to use these numbers though. I am ignorant. maybe you need to revert the process to use it. anyways it's benefits will be rather small.

[Zorku]

micrometers is simple enough, but m*K seems to imply that we're going by mass instead of volume or other size measurement (and degrees Kelvin.) Seems like an odd way to measure it unless metals are predictable in a few other ways I'm not familiar with.

[MaxWilson]

I think this ability seems super weak, am I right or is there some neat trick you can do with it?

Turn lead coins into silver, then put on a Disguise Self of one of your enemies, and pass those counterfeit silver coins off to someone important. Voila! Problems for your enemy as soon as the lead wears off.

(Yes, I have in fact been hanging out with Prince Kheldar lately, thanks for asking.)

[NackterGolfer]

micrometers is simple enough, but m*K seems to imply that we're going by mass instead of volume or other size measurement (and degrees Kelvin.) Seems like an odd way to measure it unless metals are predictable in a few other ways I'm not familiar with.

No no. you're right, it is micrometres and Kelvin. And m stands for metre. For instance: One metre of iron gets 11.8 µm longer if you heat it up by one Kelvin (around 25°Celsius).

Iron: 11.8 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)
Copper: 16.5 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)
Silver: 18.9 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)

Now when I posted earlier I tried to calculate volumes with the thermal expansion constant and didn't know how to. Still am ignorant about that. When I try, i get unreasonable results.

And now take a look at those constants: Silver unfortunately expands more with each Kelvin than iron, so i had to change the process.

But how about this: Take Silver Bar heat it up to maybe 250°C, so it's maybe 1 metre (that is like 3 feet) long. Turn into iron and cool down to -50°C. That's a difference of 300K.
The change in length would be around: -300*11.8µm because iron. If you drop it now and heat it up again:
The change in length would be around: 300*18.9µm because now silver.
Now add those two numbers: 2130µm gained. you get a 2.13mm thick disc you can cut off at the end.

Only question now is: How thick was the silver bar? Volume of a cylinder is π*r2*h.
V = 1 ft3.
h = 3.28084 foot.
So radius is 0.31148 f which is almost 10 cm?

naahh i give up it's too late.

[Zorku]

No no. you're right, it is micrometres and Kelvin. And m stands for metre. For instance: One metre of iron gets 11.8 µm longer if you heat it up by one Kelvin (around 25°Celsius).

Iron: 11.8 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)
Copper: 16.5 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)
Silver: 18.9 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)

Now when I posted earlier I tried to calculate volumes with the thermal expansion constant and didn't know how to. Still am ignorant about that. When I try, i get unreasonable results.

And now take a look at those constants: Silver unfortunately expands more with each Kelvin than iron, so i had to change the process.

But how about this: Take Silver Bar heat it up to maybe 250°C, so it's maybe 1 metre (that is like 3 feet) long. Turn into iron and cool down to -50°C. That's a difference of 300K.
The change in length would be around: -300*11.8µm because iron. If you drop it now and heat it up again:
The change in length would be around: 300*18.9µm because now silver.
Now add those two numbers: 2130µm gained. you get a 2.13mm thick disc you can cut off at the end.

Only question now is: How thick was the silver bar? Volume of a cylinder is π*r2*h.
V = 1 ft3.
h = 3.28084 foot.
So radius is 0.31148 f which is almost 10 cm?

naahh i give up it's too late.

Well you really want volumetric measurements because you can play with a 5x5x5 cube, so you're wasting effort if you don't really fill that space. For length expansion you can multiply your outcome by 1.5 while still staying withing the 5 ft^3 space, so if this plays nicely the volumetric method would be giving you something like...
5ft = 1524000µm

(2.13x1524000^2)*3 - ((1524000*2.13^2)*3 - (2.13^3)*2)

Which google calculator is none too happy about calculating for me between tasks at work, but another scientific calculator

0.00001484 m^3
Or just shy of 15 cubic centimeters.

If you spend 8 hours a day doing this (ignoring whatever time it takes to shave off the material you have created,) you'd need about 92 years to create another cubic meter of silver like this.

[Lawless]

Go to a blacksmith and commission an iron kettlebell/girya. 35 pounds should suffice, though you can make one bigger or smaller as you see fit.

Iron costs 1 sp per pound, doubling for the cost of manufacturing; 35 x 2 = 70 silver or 7 gold pieces.

When you find a big target that you want to smash; such as a ship, a fortress, a big monster, a bridge, etc., just take your weight out and turn it into balsa wood.

Iron weighs 339 lbs/cu ft. Balsa wood weighs roughly 10 lbs/cu ft.

35 lbs of iron = 0.094 cu/ft, so transforming it with minor alchemy would only take 57 seconds.

As balsa wood, the item now weighs less than a pound and can easily be carried by your flying familiar. Just move them into position high up above the target and break concentration to drop a cannonball on the target at/near terminal velocity for massive damage.

And considering that an owl can lift 22.5 pounds and you could theoretically ramp this up to a whopping:

22.5 x (339/10) = 762.75 pounds!

That’s like dropping an armored horse or a gun safe on something! That is straight up Loony Toons shenanigans!

...Provided of course you are willing and able to transport the unaltered weight and have the 22.5 minutes needed to fully transform it into balsa each time.

I don’t think it’s overly broken though, for several reasons:

First is getting someone to carry it for you, though that’s easy enough to work around for a modest 35 pound weight. Transporting a +750 pound block of iron might prove more challenging, not to mention conspicuous.

Next is the fact that depending on where you use it and how high you drop it from, you might only get a few uses out of it before it is either sinking to the bottom of the sea or deformed like a bullet on impact. But if you are careful and have either a smith or Mending cantrip handy this also isn’t a big deal.

The target needs to be above ground. Use this trick too much and I’m sure your party will be adventuring into tunnels much more frequently at the DM’s insistence. If they are being merciful.

Aiming. This trick doesn’t really work on small/moving targets or in crowded areas. Even a dense forest, fog or cover of night could make hitting a target next to impossible.

Terrain. Sure you sunk the enemy boat, but so did your kettlebell. Swamps? Buried somewhere in the muck. Mountainside? It rolled all the way down. Lava or frozen lake? Hope you know some friendly elementals.

Setup. Obviously you can’t spend a minute in combat setting this up.

Archers/Flying monsters. If your Familiar is killed before they can get into position, the plan falls apart.

In short, if you start abusing this trick expect to see more ambushes, mobs, subterranean quests, tricky terrain and aerial hazards.

[JackPhoenix]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/312241158333204955/ED222F6D74EC02B2B91A60F535CD1CF9BF9EC243/

[Man_Over_Game]

Was actually trying to compile a list of effective uses for Minor Alchemy. Was really happy to find this thread, but a little disappointed to find out the limited number of uses.

A few I've gathered were:

Turn Wood to Copper. Melt the copper into a mold. Once it cools and reverts, you now have a solid piece of wood into almost whatever shape you want.

Turn Stone/Silver into Wood. Lets you carve a statue or other piece of art/furniture into priceless perfection.

Create hybrid materials by converting Type A into Type B, melting Type B into more of the same material, and after it cools, when it reverts, it will be a mixture of both Type A+Type B without any real risk of separation. Not exactly sure what the point would be of a hybrid wood+silver stake would be, but I'm sure Vampires wouldn't like it!

On that note, find something that's weakened to silver, turn a bunch of silver into wood, burn it all, and create a toxic fume for silver-hating creatures.

There's additional information on this question on the RPG Stack Exchange here: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/55048/what-happens-to-objects-changed-while-transmuted-using-minor-alchemy-after-the