Blaster EK?

[Afrodactyl]

Hello Playground. In short, I'm looking to make an Eldritch knight that rolls with a shield, plate and a fist full of spells. My group is PHB only, so no greenflame/booming blade for me. The key point is that he's using just magic for offense (I will still keep a sword on hand in case of any anti-magic fields though), preferably a frontline fighter.

Any advice on how to best go about this?

[Lalliman]

EK is poorly suited for blasting. They get few spell slots, and are way behind the curve in firepower. Consider this: an EK can learn fireball at level 13, 8 levels later than the wizard.

You're probably better off going fighter 1 / wizard X for a wizard with heavy armour proficiency. Maybe get the Tough feat if you feel too squishy, that effectively bumps you up to a d10.

[rollingForInit]

You'll run out of spell slots extremely quickly if you try that. And using an attack cantrip is much worse than using a bow. Fire Bolt does 4d10 (avg 22) by level 17. A level 11 fighter could do 3d8+15 (avg 28.5), and with +2 to attack rolls at that. EK's aren't meant to be blasters, they're meant to be fighters with some magical skills

If what you want is an armored blaster, there are much better options. Take any spellcaster and give it one level of fighter. That gets you shields and armors. Go Wizard if you want versatility in what you can do, Sorcerer if you want much fewer spells but cast them better. Go Warlock if you want the best offensive cantrip in the game, meaning you'll blast magic all day long non-stop.

You could also consider a Cleric with the Light Domain. They get some nice blasting spells, and have medium armor and shields build right into the base class. The Light Domain gets some extra damage on cantrips as well.

If you're really set on EK, MC it with Wizard. EK11/Wizard 9 is considered a very good multiclass. EK 6->Wizard 5->EK 11->Wizard 9 is a solid progression. You'll be more of a gish than an actual blaster, though. But at least you'll have more spell slots.

[Afrodactyl]

Let's say for discussion's sake that I'm building a level 5 character.

As a blaster, which would be better between fighter2/warlock3 and fighter1/warlock4? (Warlock will be Tome/Fiend)

Fighter2 gets me action surge, but warlock4 gets me an ASI and lots of cantrips.

[Specter]

Let's say for discussion's sake that I'm building a level 5 character.

As a blaster, which would be better between fighter2/warlock3 and fighter1/warlock4? (Warlock will be Tome/Fiend)

Fighter2 gets me action surge, but warlock4 gets me an ASI and lots of cantrips.

For discussion's sake? Fighter 2/Warlock 3. But the infamous 2-level dip in Warlock would already give you Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast, pretty much all you need.

Answering your original question, EKs are emergency blasters: while they surely can Scorching Ray a foe that's flying away, they can't do it too often because of few spell slots (like Warlock). What you may be looking for is something like EK4/Evoker 16, or EK4/Sorcerer 16.

[Afrodactyl]

For discussion's sake? Fighter 2/Warlock 3. But the infamous 2-level dip in Warlock would already give you Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast, pretty much all you need.

Answering your original question, EKs are emergency blasters: while they surely can Scorching Ray a foe that's flying away, they can't do it too often because of few spell slots (like Warlock). What you may be looking for is something like EK4/Evoker 16, or EK4/Sorcerer 16.

I'll look into EK/Sorc, EK/Wiz, EK/Warlock and Fighter2/Caster. I'm guessing the EK's cantrips just aren't enough without BB and GFB?

Thanks for the input.

[Specter]

I'll look into EK/Sorc, EK/Wiz, EK/Warlock and Fighter2/Caster. I'm guessing the EK's cantrips just aren't enough without BB and GFB?

Thanks for the input.

Before SCAG, EKs were fine; you just need to put some strategy to other cantrips. Shocking Grasp, for instance, denies a reaction, which is great to avoid an op. attack or aid an ally's escape or prevent defenses like Shield and Counterspell. Chill Touch will be great against undead, or a foe that is on the brink of death. And so on.

[Citan]

Hello Playground. In short, I'm looking to make an Eldritch knight that rolls with a shield, plate and a fist full of spells. My group is PHB only, so no greenflame/booming blade for me. The key point is that he's using just magic for offense (I will still keep a sword on hand in case of any anti-magic fields though), preferably a frontline fighter.

Any advice on how to best go about this?
It works, but EK don't have many spell slots to begin with.
For a low level campaign, as others said, prefer a full caster with a dip if necessary.

For a mid-to high level campaign, you can take Eldricht Knight and mix it with the Sorcerer. This way you can attack and cast a spell when required thanks to Quicken.
And Sorcerer gets plenty blast spells.
So I would go Fighter 5, Draconic Sorcerer 5, then finish however you want. The best bet would be to go Fighter 11 and finish Sorcerer 9, because you can make a very nice combo. But it comes veeeery late though (lvl 15 character). So if you don't want to wait for that, better go straight Bladelock or Favored Soul Sorcerer.

[MeeposFire]

If you want constant blasting power you want

EK fighter7 or 8/warlock2/rogue10 or 11.

The EK provides the ability to attack with a bow after using a cantrip and a fighting style. It also provides extra feat opportunities so you can either pick up more ASIs or more feats like crossbow expert (no disadvantage on your eldritch blasts and before your warlock levels you can use hand crossbows for more damage).

Warlock is for EB and of course cha to each blast.

Lastly rogue provides you more damage in sneak attack on your weapon attack, more utility with more skills, and awesome defensive advantages with things like evasion and uncanny dodge.

Best thing of all is that the progression is smooth and you are not lacking in ASIs. It is very effective and about as fun as you are going to have in an archer type.

[Degwerks]

If you want constant blasting power you want

EK fighter7 or 8/warlock2/rogue10 or 11.

The EK provides the ability to attack with a bow after using a cantrip and a fighting style. It also provides extra feat opportunities so you can either pick up more ASIs or more feats like crossbow expert (no disadvantage on your eldritch blasts and before your warlock levels you can use hand crossbows for more damage).

Warlock is for EB and of course cha to each blast.

Lastly rogue provides you more damage in sneak attack on your weapon attack, more utility with more skills, and awesome defensive advantages with things like evasion and uncanny dodge.

Best thing of all is that the progression is smooth and you are not lacking in ASIs. It is very effective and about as fun as you are going to have in an archer type.

You can do this pretty well just by taking the Unearthed Arcana underdark version fighting style called Close Quarter Shooter. No need to spend an asi for a feat. Plus it gives you +1 to hit with ranged spells and ranged weapons & no disadvantage rolls while in combat. EK-8/warlock-2/swashbuckler-10 nets you charisma to initiative & eldritch blasts. Plus the EK bonus attack. 4d10 + charisma(×4) +1d8 longbow +5d6 SA.

Oops just saw phb only.

[Afrodactyl]

Thanks for the input everyone!

[R.Shackleford]

Honestly, Tempest Cleric would work well in place of EK as a blaster gish.

[Biggstick]

Honestly, Tempest Cleric would work well in place of EK as a blaster gish.

I'm definitely going to echo this. You'll be able to serve as a front liner for the first few levels of play. If people manage to hit you, they get a Thunderous Rebuke. If you decide to do thunder or lightning damage, you can choose to maximize it once per short rest (until level 6, and then it's twice per short rest).

It's definitely better if you're looking to rock a single class blaster gish.

[R.Shackleford]

I'm definitely going to echo this. You'll be able to serve as a front liner for the first few levels of play. If people manage to hit you, they get a Thunderous Rebuke. If you decide to do thunder or lightning damage, you can choose to maximize it once per short rest (until level 6, and then it's twice per short rest).

It's definitely better if you're looking to rock a single class blaster gish.

Heh, echo.... Nice.

If Vuman isn't your style then Water Genasi, Wood Elf, or Aasimar can all be awesome.

[Tanarii]

Given its already what the EK is meant to do, shouldn't be a problem. All you need is War Caster so you can cast with a Shield. It really comes online at level 7 with War a magic giving you the attack / Cantrip rotation, then even more so at level 10 when your attack undercuts their saving throw vs the Cantrip. (Note you'll want Acid Splash & Poison Spray because they're save-based cantrips.)

[R.Shackleford]

Given its already what the EK is meant to do, shouldn't be a problem. All you need is War Caster so you can cast with a Shield. It really comes online at level 7 with War a magic giving you the attack / Cantrip rotation, then even more so at level 10 when your attack undercuts their saving throw vs the Cantrip. (Note you'll want Acid Splash & Poison Spray because they're save-based cantrips.)

The EK is one of the worst blasting classes in the game. Until the game is typically over, variant human magic initiate ( or just the magic Initiate feat) does just about as good of a job at magical blasting as the EK.

[Specter]

The EK is one of the worst blasting classes in the game. Until the game is typically over, variant human magic initiate ( or just the magic Initiate feat) does just about as good of a job at magical blasting as the EK.

Not really. When level 7 comes around, Action Surging Scorching Ray or Shatter can be beastly. War Magic also benefits some cantrip rotation. Surely won't match a Sorcerer, but not too shabby either.

[R.Shackleford]

Not really. When level 7 comes around, Action Surging Scorching Ray or Shatter can be beastly. War Magic also benefits some cantrip rotation. Surely won't match a Sorcerer, but not too shabby either.

Which, as I said, unail about when the game is over which is around 7 - 9.

The EK comes online after the game is typically finished. You might as well be talking about level 17.

[Kane0]

Start with warlock 2 for EB and invocations which will be your primary source of damage output. Add in 7 levels of EK fighter to use your cantrip with a bonus action attack (ideally a bow), then put any other levels you get into rogue for sneak attack goodness with your bowshot. Use your spell slots for hex, shield and mirror image plus any other utility spells you want to pick up.
Make Dex your main stat, con and cha secondary. Spell sniper and warcaster are feats you should be looking at, and at later levels you can throw in another level in warlockor fighter for a pact/asi or some sorcerer to metamagic your EB

So pretty much what Meepos said

[Tanarii]

The EK is one of the worst blasting classes in the game. Until the game is typically over, variant human magic initiate ( or just the magic Initiate feat) does just about as good of a job at magical blasting as the EK.
Their default action is sword/blast (or blast/sword) once War Magic comes online. They probably use their level 1 slots to Shield often at that point, although a timely Thunderwave (or even Burning Hands against packed enemies) doesn't go amiss. But level 2+ Slots are great for groovy AoE damage from shatter of Fireball whenever appropriate. That's their Schtick.

Of course, before War Magic they're most likely using their weapon when close up, and only blasting at range. So yeah, they aren't particularly blasty at the lowest levels. That's because they're fighters with 1/3 casting blasteryness layers on top. Of course they're not the best blastery class in the game.

[Specter]

Which, as I said, unail about when the game is over which is around 7 - 9.

The EK comes online after the game is typically finished. You might as well be talking about level 17.

It """comes online""" (hate that) at level 3, when you're surpassing the BM and the Champion at being alive. It can blast at later levels, which is something the others can't.

Just because you're not the best at one thing, doesn't mean you're not great at many others.

[Tanarii]

I totally missed the OP was about blaster only. Yeah, EK doesn't work very well for that.

[Afrodactyl]

Thanks for the input guys, I'll look into tempest cleric as well

[R.Shackleford]

It """comes online""" (hate that) at level 3, when you're surpassing the BM and the Champion at being alive. It can blast at later levels, which is something the others can't.

Just because you're not the best at one thing, doesn't mean you're not great at many others.

Don't hate thenplayers, hate the game. Not my fault most people don't play to or past level 8 (ish).

The EK doesn't blast all that well. The magic Initiate feat blast just as well or beer than the EK.

You are stuck with Int as your casting stat, which lowers your better mental defences (Wis and Cha) or lowers your physical side.

So, instead of focusing on whatever ability scores that you want, you have to focus on Int... Which is perhaps the worst ability score in the game.

1/short rest you can action surge. That's not giving you a huge advantage on blasting over anyone else blasting. Especially since you are stuck with Int while magic initiate gives you a choice of int, wis, or cha.

Let's say I'm a Champion who picks up Magic Initiate. I have the option of going Int, Wis, or Cha. I'm going to be nice and go Cha (wisdom would be the better choice but that isn't fair ;) ).

So during the levels that actually play... The champion is just as good, or better (as I can pick my casting stat... blasters who can resist more common spells make for better blasters), of a blaster than the EK.

[Citan]

Let's say I'm a Champion who picks up Magic Initiate. I have the option of going Int, Wis, or Cha. I'm going to be nice and go Cha (wisdom would be the better choice but that isn't fair ;) ).

So during the levels that actually play... The champion is just as good, or better (as I can pick my casting stat... blasters who can resist more common spells make for better blasters), of a blaster than the EK.
While it is true that INT tends to be a dump stat for many (although it can be one of the most useful outthere depending on DMs), it is outright nonsense to say that Magic Initiate Champion would trump it as a blaster.

First, because the "I need to lower physical stats for my casting stat" is the same for every gish: EK, AT, Paladin, Ranger... In all those cases, you can either embrace the MADness and compose with it, or limit it through a careful spell selection.
In the first case, everyone is in the same boat.
And while WIS is arguably a better stat to boost than INT, CHA cannot be put at the same level as WIS. Rather between WIS and INT.

Second, because before SCAG (and for any campaign that bars it to favor EE), you didn't have any weapon cantrip, so you didn't have any offensive cantrip that did not rely on casting stat.

Third and the most important, because Magic Initiate is ever stuck with 2 cantrips and 1 spell, whereas EK, even if it is not much, still grows in spell known and slots.
So EK beats Champion right off the start.

For OP though, it's clear that it is not the most fitting class since he clearly is not interested in weapon fighting. No argue there.

[R.Shackleford]

While it is true that INT tends to be a dump stat for many (although it can be one of the most useful outthere depending on DMs), it is outright nonsense to say that Magic Initiate Champion would trump it as a blaster.

First, because the "I need to lower physical stats for my casting stat" is the same for every gish: EK, AT, Paladin, Ranger... In all those cases, you can either embrace the MADness and compose with it, or limit it through a careful spell selection.
In the first case, everyone is in the same boat.
And while WIS is arguably a better stat to boost than INT, CHA cannot be put at the same level as WIS. Rather between WIS and INT.

Second, because before SCAG (and for any campaign that bars it to favor EE), you didn't have any weapon cantrip, so you didn't have any offensive cantrip that did not rely on casting stat.

Third and the most important, because Magic Initiate is ever stuck with 2 cantrips and 1 spell, whereas EK, even if it is not much, still grows in spell known and slots.
So EK beats Champion right off the start.

For OP though, it's clear that it is not the most fitting class since he clearly is not interested in weapon fighting. No argue there.

The EK doesn't beat the champion right off the start. The champion character had magic initiate since level 1. They both will have a primary damage dealing cantrip at level 3.

The difference is that the champion can be wisdom or charisma based if they want.

Weapon cantrips don't make you a blaster, I wasn't even thinking of them. However the champion comes out ahead on those, Extra crit is nice. But those don't make you a blaster so I'm ignoring them.

Blasters are about at-will or sustained magical damage. The EK just doesn't get enough, until the game is already over, to be a decent blaster when it comes to spell slots.

At level 3 the EK gets 2 spell slots per long rest. The champion character already has 1. For two whole levels that champion has been blasting with cantrips and 1/day spell slot while the EK charcter is just being a fighter.

The EK gets no real blasting boost until the game is over. This is a problem with the fighter class in general hardening back to 3e, got to wait for all the cool class features that really should be lower in the class.

The EK is crap as a blaster. I can't think of a caster class, that gets cantrips, that does worse... And that's even compared to the Arcane Trickster as they can focus on Int and not have it really effect their performance in other areas.

The EK is just another weapon damage dealer and a poor magical user.

[Specter]

Don't hate thenplayers, hate the game. Not my fault most people don't play to or past level 8 (ish).

The EK doesn't blast all that well. The magic Initiate feat blast just as well or beer than the EK.

You are stuck with Int as your casting stat, which lowers your better mental defences (Wis and Cha) or lowers your physical side.

So, instead of focusing on whatever ability scores that you want, you have to focus on Int... Which is perhaps the worst ability score in the game.

1/short rest you can action surge. That's not giving you a huge advantage on blasting over anyone else blasting. Especially since you are stuck with Int while magic initiate gives you a choice of int, wis, or cha.

Let's say I'm a Champion who picks up Magic Initiate. I have the option of going Int, Wis, or Cha. I'm going to be nice and go Cha (wisdom would be the better choice but that isn't fair ;) ).

So during the levels that actually play... The champion is just as good, or better (as I can pick my casting stat... blasters who can resist more common spells make for better blasters), of a blaster than the EK.

Nah.

First of all, it's not just cantrips. Even if I take a spell like Magic Missile, it's guaranteed damage. No roll, no save, done. With cantrips, I'm doing them and also attacking, that at level 7 (which all published adventures go through). At level 7 I'm also grabbing Scorching Ray, which will be much better than... whatever it is you're trying to prove here.

You took Magic Initiate as a Champ? Then I'll take a lame feat like Elemental Adept, and still be better than you.

[Citan]

The EK doesn't beat the champion right off the start. The champion character had magic initiate since level 1. They both will have a primary damage dealing cantrip at level 3.

The difference is that the champion can be wisdom or charisma based if they want.

Weapon cantrips don't make you a blaster, I wasn't even thinking of them. However the champion comes out ahead on those, Extra crit is nice. But those don't make you a blaster so I'm ignoring them.

Blasters are about at-will or sustained magical damage. The EK just doesn't get enough, until the game is already over, to be a decent blaster when it comes to spell slots.

At level 3 the EK gets 2 spell slots per long rest. The champion character already has 1. For two whole levels that champion has been blasting with cantrips and 1/day spell slot while the EK charcter is just being a fighter.

The EK gets no real blasting boost until the game is over. This is a problem with the fighter class in general hardening back to 3e, got to wait for all the cool class features that really should be lower in the class.

The EK is crap as a blaster. I can't think of a caster class, that gets cantrips, that does worse... And that's even compared to the Arcane Trickster as they can focus on Int and not have it really effect their performance in other areas.

The EK is just another weapon damage dealer and a poor magical user.
Woah...
Ok, let's avoid the fact that the EK could actually make exactly the same as Champion and take Magic Initiate at lvl 1 (to expand his cantrips and get either Mage Armor or Find Familiar in addition).

Beyond that, you say "for two whole levels", but it makes for a total of 900 xp (go from 1 to 3), while going from 3 to 4 represents a further gain of 1800 XP.
Otherwise said, these "two whole levels" won't last that long in most games, so it's actually a rather little advantage.

Not including the fact that a EK Human variant could also rather take an always useful feat for any Fighter instead, such as Resilient: Wisdom or Mage Slayer, Mobile etc...
Or the fact that an EK gains another spell slot every ~2 levels (there is nothing at 5th and 6th though since you get Extra Attack and ASI, but you gain a big boost at 7th).

Also, Wisdom based offensive cantrips are VERY limited: basically either Shillelagh/Thorn Whip (so you're not a blaster), Sacred Flame (nice) or Produce Flame (good because utility+offense, but limited ranged and damage).

So only INT or CHA really provide choices for blast cantrips.

By the way, EK gets offensive cantrips, so he has at-will magic damage. If built with INT in mind, it is exactly the same as any caster barring Evoker Wizard or Sorcerer.

Finally, I'm sorry but I have to say it: I find it just stupid to compare the Eldricht Knight to fullcasters as far as spellcasting go (including blasting) because you compare one aspect of a class to the defining feature of another. Of course he will be worse: he's a frigging Fighter, able to unleash up to 4 attacks per round, with good defenses and HP to boot, whereas Wizards and the like have to spend spells or feats to help their self-resilience.
If he was, in addition to that, more than a third-caster, it would become too powerful (a case could be made with Paladin as an example, but once slots are spent, Paladin is strictly worse than Fighter in sustained damage). His 11 spells slots are supposed to help him survive dangerous attacks, enhance its martial abilities or get rid of swars. Overall, to get different abilities that complement his natural strengths.
It has been balanced this way, and it is balanced. That's why people who want more blasting either multiclass or take another class from the start. After that, each player tailors the build to its style...

Also, the "worst blaster" if you really want to stick with that senseless comparison is not the EK, but the AT. Because AT can not even choose blasting spells. ;)

[Tanarii]

Yeah, EKs work fine as secondary blasters. It's one part of their whole schtick. On top of melee attacking, they get ranged magical & more importantly AoE damage capability. Even just using Cantrips ... Acid Splash (edit: or sword burst from SCAG) is perfectly fine for an EK to use against 2 adjacent targets they just hit with their sword as part of a War Magic rotation. They just aren't going to cut it as a primary blaster.

And Int is only the worst ability score in a hard-core combat campaign, and a hardcore combat-as-sport one to boot. Or if the DM otherwise goes out of his way to make Int ability checks worthless.