Rules Clarification- Charm Person and other enchantments

[OctoberRaven]

So this came up in our most recent session: Would someone who had Charm Person cast on them realize they were Charmed after the spell ends? And would this also apply to other mind-affecting enchantments, or only if the spell specifically says so?

[inuyasha]

So, I don't know of an actual answer, but I would rule the person wouldn't know of it automatically, but they could have it pointed out to them via real friends who noticed them acting strangely and/or telling them about a recent encounter with a spellcaster.

[Kurald Galain]

So, I don't know of an actual answer, but I would rule the person wouldn't know of it automatically, but they could have it pointed out to them via real friends who noticed them acting strangely and/or telling them about a recent encounter with a spellcaster.
I agree with this. That's the main difference between charm and puppet master-style domination.

[Nibbens]

I agree with this. That's the main difference between charm and puppet master-style domination.

Although, in my games, I treat all mind affecting abilities from the lowliest fascinate or lullaby to the infamous dominate monster with the same level of seriousness as detecting someone's alignment or reading their thoughts. It's a gross violation of their person.

So if anyone was charmed in such a manner, he'd be furious after the fact - being able to tell darn near automatically. (besides, spells only last for their limited timeframe) They go back to their original level of friendliness or hostility after the spell is over.

I'd probably allow a untrained Knowledge Arcana check or intelligence check of DC10 (+1 per level of spell) for anyone to determine that someone had just hijacked their mind once the spell had ended. (besides, only the densest of us would't be able to tell that for some reason, after that wizard just pointed his finger at me and did some juju that I suddenly liked him, that I wasn't addled in some way).

Once word gets out that someone in the party was "taking control" of townspeople in some way, there'd be a hellova lot of consequences for the party to face.

[inuyasha]

-snip-

That's an interesting rule. I think I'd also add the caster's main casting stat to the DC, since a smarter wizard would probably have more potent magic in that regard.

I might take that and use it with a specific houserule of mine, where if you have no ranks in a skill and try to use it, you use a D12 instead of a D20.

[Darth Ultron]

In general, most people will have no clue that magic was used on them. Though the type of campaign does matter. In a low magic game nearly everyone would be hapless and clueless. In a high magic one, everyone will know.

To break it down more:

Most commoners know noting about magic, and are clueless. Worse, most common folk think that every dark cloud in the sky is an 'evil curse of darkness''.

Folks that live in a more magical land will know the basics of magic. They will have seen magic from birth, and chances are they have been charmed and effected by countless other common spells many times.

The typical adventurer type, as well as most guard types would also be in the know.

[nyjastul69]

In general, most people will have no clue that magic was used on them. Though the type of campaign does matter. In a low magic game nearly everyone would be hapless and clueless. In a high magic one, everyone will know.

To break it down more:

Most commoners know noting about magic, and are clueless. Worse, most common folk think that every dark cloud in the sky is an 'evil curse of darkness''.

Folks that live in a more magical land will know the basics of magic. They will have seen magic from birth, and chances are they have been charmed and effected by countless other common spells many times.

The typical adventurer type, as well as most guard types would also be in the know.

Is this generality for your campaign setting, my setting or everyone's?

[Snow-blind]

There was an FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza) a little while back which stated that spells and spell-likes produce blatantly obvious manifestations. Whether it be a fireball, a charm person spell or a paladin's Detect Evil SLA, spellcasting is clearly an act of magic to anyone who can see it. The exact nature of the the manifestations isn't stated, but the only consistent* explanation is that they are some sort of visible effect that clearly designates the caster as the source.

As such, yes, if you cast charm person then everyone around you knows that you cast a spell. However, if the target failed their save then they don't know that they were the target of the spell, but that is little help if you are interacting with them for hours. Charm Person and friends (like all mind affecting spells sans a few specific exceptions) have no impact on memory or the behavior of the creature after the spell ends (contrast Hypnosis, which alters both), so once they aren't your thrall then they are going to be able to look back at everything you and they did with a clear head. There is a reasonable chance you could get away with a charm spell if you were very careful with what you were doing**, but any sustained interaction is going to be remembered as really out of character for the victim, meaning that they will probably assume that you did *something* to them.

*"consistent" meaning "out of all the possible justifications for why spells are easily detectable, this is the only one I have heard of that doesn't violate the FAQ or any other rules, isn't nonsensical or stupid in some way, or that doesn't enable violating game rules with reasonable in-character actions".

**Everybody knows you are casting, but they don't inherently know that you are casting a hostile spell or who you are casting it at - spellcraft is needed to determine the spell, and target selection comes after the spellcraft check so there is no rules basis for the manifestations designating your victim as the target. Pre-cast Prestidigitation, walk up to the guard with a friend, come up with an excuse during your conversation which justifies casting "Prestidigitation" to clean up your friend, and then convince the guard-thrall to let you through. It is a short interaction with no particularly remarkable events in it, so it is very likely that the guard won't treat it with suspicion later unless they have a good external reason to think over their interaction very carefully.