How to deal with frustrations with my gaming group

[Roovy]

Hello! I am a long-time lurker and Oots fan! (Been lurking since... well, since the Xykon fight from the first book.) I'm playing with a group of friends and we're all fairly new to D&D and we're playing 3.5 core.

I have some frustrations with my group that I don't really know how to resolve without coming across as a jerk. I work and go to school 5 days/week, so I come to the Saturday sessions maybe not as prepared as I ought to be, but... I still seem to be an order of magnitude more prepared than anyone else in the group, including the DM. It just feels like I'm the only one reading the rules or even taking cursory glances at the PHB.

And I don't want to be some kind of rules nazi or rules lawyer who ruins everyone's fun. I don't expect everyone to know all the rules or how everything works. But, they don't even know how their own feats work! The fighter's Great Cleave feat only has a short paragraph, a few sentences, detailing how it works, but both the fighter and the DM have somehow interpreted it to mean that the fighter gets to take unlimited 5-foot steps...? The fighter also has Improved Overrun that I have to walk him through when he uses it. The wizard took the Enlarge Spell metamagic feat and has somehow interpreted it to mean he gets extra dice rolls for damage. The DM seems to agree. I don't know if either have read the feat description, but I don't say anything because I don't want to be a killjoy. I managed to explain to the ranger how his Manyshot feat works (just read the PHB!) so at least that's being ruled on correctly. When the wizard is asked what the save DC is for his spells, he hasn't any idea. And this is just scratching the surface when it comes to not understanding the basics of their own classes.

I know they're all new to the game. But, so am I! At this point, I'll be happy and content if we just get the basic stuff down. Nevermind the nitty-gritty rules with some actual nuance. I have an Animal Companion, but I don't ever expect to be asked by the DM which tricks the animal knows or even to be asked to make a Handle Animal check. I don't expect the DM to ever keep track of what spells I have prepared or how many spell I have left. If we find treasure, we aren't going to be asked for an Appraise check; we're just going to be told its worth. The difference between a casting time of 'standard action' and 'full-round action'? That's waaaaay beyond us.

I think the problem comes from everyone else rolling their characters through some computer program called HeroLab that automates the process, whereas I have cooked mine up just from reading the PHB. So, what should I do? I'm not the DM, so I guess I should just roll with it and enjoy it for what it is. Hopefully it will get better over time. I'm just kind of disappointed; I was hoping for a more refined experience.

tl;dr My gaming group seems to be playing some game based on D&D rather than D&D and I'm a bit frustrated.

[Erit]

Tragically, there's not really an effective method of drawing attention to these mistakes without being in people's faces and being a bit of a jerk over it. The shortest distance between here and there is a straight line; or, in more detailed terms, the best way to see people follow the rules is to pipe up when they don't.

Now, you can certainly endeavor to minimize the boorishness of your interjections, opting for "Are you sure that's how it works? Because the book says..." Rather than just abruptly saying "You're wrong, the rule is XYZ". Make them double-check and read it for themselves, hell maybe even have them read it aloud for the benefit of the group if that's what it takes to get them to internalize the details.

Above all, though, try not to get too heated over it. There is literally no one in human history who wasn't beyond clueless about something or another when they first started. It just takes time; some more than others, but with enough of it applied in the right method, anyone will learn.

[Roovy]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll try to interject more frequently when the rules are being ignored; I just don't know where to draw the line. If I interjected over every rule violation, that's all I'd be doing the entire session and I'd begin to feel like a nerdy rule inquisitor. I feel like it's not my job to micro manage and enforce every little detail - that's the DM's job, but the DM doesn't seem inclined to do it.

It doesn't help that most of the group isn't sober when we're playing. :smallsigh:

[weckar]

Maybe the group you ended up with just want to play it as a loose-and-fast rules-light game that is mostly about having fun and not so much about rules and mechanics. And that is an entirely valid way to play if everyone agrees to it.

[Roovy]

That does sound like what I ended up with. I guess it's just not my cup of tea. If we're going to disregard rules and ignore mechanics, we might as well ditch the rules, books, and character sheets altogether, rent some costumes and play fantasy theater. It would at least make encounters go smoother since we wouldn't have to roll dice.

[Quertus]

And I don't want to be some kind of rules nazi or rules lawyer who ruins everyone's fun.

tl;dr My gaming group seems to be playing some game based on D&D rather than D&D and I'm a bit frustrated.

Don't be the kind of rules lawyer who ruins everyone's fun - be the kind of rules lawyer who makes the game fun!

Obviously, you're not having fun in Bizarro world, so show them the light of playing the actual game.

Getting a veteran player or two might help.

DMing a game or two might help.

Handy "this is how your powers work" notecards / cheat sheets might help.

[ekarney]

Now, you can certainly endeavor to minimize the boorishness of your interjections, opting for "Are you sure that's how it works? Because the book says..." Rather than just abruptly saying "You're wrong, the rule is XYZ". Make them double-check and read it for themselves, hell maybe even have them read it aloud for the benefit of the group if that's what it takes to get them to internalize the details.


I actually tend to be even more passive than that, to the point of "Whoa weird, I thought it was performed X not Y, do you guys mind if I check the book?" or "Is that a homebrew rule or something? I always used to play like this, but I never checked up with it, so maybe I was playing homebrew"


That being said, also objectively look at the rule they're messing with if you think it's an improvement just let it be.

[Mordaedil]

Are you having fun?

This is the most important question in regards to D&D. If you are not having fun, chances are the DM isn't having fun. Talk to your DM.

Tell them what you consider fun (playing by the rules as written) and they will probably meet you there. If not, maybe the group just isn't your cup of tea.

[Jay R]

The group is who they are, not who you would like them to be. You won't change them.

Is it worth playing with this group or not? If it isn't, then find something else to do.

But if it is, commit to playing the game the way it's going to be played. You don't have to approve, but you'll be a lot more comfortable if you accept it.

[Diarmuid]

It also seems that your group is trying to run before learning to walk.

New players should be playing level 1 characters while they learn the basics, not trying to wrap their heads around higher level feats and how they interact with class abilities.

Could be to suggest the group take a break from current game and try something a little more their speed. The original 3.5 modules do a really nice job of introducing new mechanics slowly so people dont get overwhelmed with options.

[CharonsHelper]

My big question - what level did you start at? It sounds like it was pretty high, while new groups should generally start at level 1 or MAYBE level 2. That way all of the rules are introduced more slowly over time.

[ComaVision]

Some people just never learn the game, whether they're incapable of learning or just don't care to. I had two players in my game that couldn't make or level their own characters and didn't understand how to play or what their characters could do. Nearly no one I've played with had prior experience so it's not an issue of not teaching them, they just don't pick anything up (even after years of play).

One of the players has been removed from the game, as she started missing games quite frequently (probably due to disinterest). The other will probably not be invited to the next game I DM.

They can do what they want, it's their choice, but it's not how I want to play.

[icefractal]

For the feats you mentioned in the OP, you should be prepared for some pushback if you try to play them right, because RAW those are kind of niche feats and will be pretty unimpressive. The 'right' way to use Great Cleave is "don't take it, it's not very good", unless you're an enlarged reach-weapon user or something like that. Likewise, while Enlarge Spell can be handy for a spontaneous caster, it's not much good for a Wizard unless you're using an "always flying and attacking from out of range" strategy.

So ... two wrongs sort of made a right in those instances. But I get the frustration, it's annoying when you come up with good strategies, and then it turns out those didn't matter because everything was "rule of cool" anyway.

Also, if you think you're annoyed now, wait until you have someone who's been playing for like three years and still can't figure out their attack bonus. :smallannoyed: Some people just can't or won't learn mechanics.