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View Full Version : Gamer Humor Stereotyping (And counter proofs) in D&D



Asmotherion
2016-09-26, 12:09 PM
This is mostly to have a good laugh.

For example, you could mention stereotypes like:

According to Wizards of the Coast, barbarians must always be stupid.
-And what if they have a +3 modifier to Inteligence?
-They'll put out their brain and use it as a magical weapon. There are some theories they don't need it to survive.

Or

-I didn't know why the Wizard is always buffed up as the best class in the game... then I saw the name of the publisher...

A girl gets in a bar... 10 minutes latter she gets laid. What class was her partener?
-A Bar-D.
(Hopefully this humor is not going too far for younger audiences? if so, I'll delete the last one).

Professor Chimp
2016-09-26, 12:25 PM
Lawful Good characters, especially Paladins, must be anal retentive law nazis who will murder the **** out of anything that doesn't conform to their narrowminded standards of morality, which in essence basically boils down to anyone who isn't also a Paladin, and even then. Also known as Lawful Stupid.

Chaotic Evil characters must be utterly insane psychopathic murdermachines who need their daily blood bath before getting out of bed and will then fill their day with non-stop slaughter, rape, torture and kicking puppies for teh EVULZ. Also known as Stupid Evil.

Asmotherion
2016-09-26, 12:45 PM
Lawful Good characters, especially Paladins, must be anal retentive law nazis who will murder the **** out of anything that doesn't conform to their narrowminded standards of morality, which in essence basically boils down to anyone who isn't also a Paladin, and even then. Also known as Lawful Stupid.

Chaotic Evil characters must be utterly insane psychopathic murdermachines who need their daily blood bath before getting out of bed and will then fill their day with non-stop slaughter, rape, torture and kicking puppies for teh EVULZ. Also known as Stupid Evil.

There is a diference between Chaotic Evil and Stupid Evil... Drow Elves for example are Chaotic Evil. On the other hand, when you DM, your player who wants to roll a chaotic evil character... always ends up being Stupid Evil.

Clistenes
2016-09-26, 01:07 PM
There is a diference between Chaotic Evil and Stupid Evil... Drow Elves for example are Chaotic Evil. On the other hand, when you DM, your player who wants to roll a chaotic evil character... always ends up being Stupid Evil.

Drow, as portrayed in the FR books, are kinds Stupid Evil when considered as a culture/group. They basically squander their resources backstabbing every other drow all the time, and have no external allies (except Demons, who intend to exploit and betray them in turn, anyways) because everybody knows they will always backstab you.

bulbaquil
2016-09-26, 07:04 PM
Drow, as portrayed in the FR books, are kinds Stupid Evil when considered as a culture/group. They basically squander their resources backstabbing every other drow all the time, and have no external allies (except Demons, who intend to exploit and betray them in turn, anyways) because everybody knows they will always backstab you.

I agree re: drow portrayal. If the punishment for failing to completely slaughter your opponent's house in a raid is to have your own house slaughtered, then any time a raid occurs, at least one entire house is going away. How do they get new houses, especially given the low birth rates generally ascribed to elves?

Conradine
2016-09-26, 07:11 PM
I wonder if all Chaotic Evil must necessarily be relentless and hot blodded.

Could a CE character believable be a lazy, relaxed and cold individual that greedily sits on his hoard, giving no respect to laws or other people's lives but content to simply stay in his lair satisfying basic desires, showing his ferocity only when someone trespasses in his territory?

SimonMoon6
2016-09-26, 07:15 PM
Chaotic Evil characters must be utterly insane psychopathic murdermachines who need their daily blood bath before getting out of bed and will then fill their day with non-stop slaughter, rape, torture and kicking puppies for teh EVULZ.

Chaotic Neutral characters must do the same thing, but it's okay because they balance it by saving lives or doing whatever pointless task the DM forces the party to do.

Tiri
2016-09-26, 11:41 PM
How do they get new houses, especially given the low birth rates generally ascribed to elves?

Maybe they promote common drow?



Could a CE character believable be a lazy, relaxed and cold individual that greedily sits on his hoard, giving no respect to laws or other people's lives but content to simply stay in his lair satisfying basic desires, showing his ferocity only when someone trespasses in his territory?

Sounds like a dragon.

Inevitability
2016-09-27, 12:46 AM
How do they get new houses, especially given the low birth rates generally ascribed to elves?

It's been established that drow have much faster birth and maturation rates, somewhat closer to humans than elves. Still ridiculous, but less so.


Could a CE character believable be a lazy, relaxed and cold individual that greedily sits on his hoard, giving no respect to laws or other people's lives but content to simply stay in his lair satisfying basic desires, showing his ferocity only when someone trespasses in his territory?

That's still conforming to the 'CE is violent and angry' stereotype, except now it only applies when this character is disturbed. There's plenty of ways to make a peaceful or even pacifistic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492588-CE-Pacifist) CE character, but this isn't one.

Jay R
2016-09-27, 09:58 AM
I've said it before, but it's still as true as it ever was:

No matter what the character sheet says, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

JAL_1138
2016-09-27, 11:38 AM
Stereotype: Bards are quite silly.

Counterexample: ... *crickets chirp*

Okay, maybe it's not so much "stereotype" as "law of nature."

lunaticfringe
2016-09-27, 12:30 PM
Druids are nature loving vegan hippies who practice beast-ahimsa.

Nature is mean and eats/attacks itself all the time. All my druids enjoy a good steak. As long as you aren't eating members of your own species there is nothing biologically wrong with it. Perfectly natural.

Inevitability
2016-09-27, 02:48 PM
Druids are nature loving vegan hippies who practice beast-ahimsa.

Nature is mean and eats/attacks itself all the time. All my druids enjoy a good steak. As long as you aren't eating members of your own species there is nothing biologically wrong with it. Perfectly natural.

There's plenty of animals that eat their own species (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_(zoology)), so that opens up even more options.

lunaticfringe
2016-09-27, 05:06 PM
True but that's a horse of a different color. OMG that Lion is Eating a Zebra isn't a thing unless you are getting an uncensored view. Then it's still not wrong.

My dwarf druid makes goblin stew, he finds it tasty. He doesn't go out hunting Goblins for stew, but if the party has already killed some...

The gnome wizard has come around as well. Ah Neutrality

CrazyPenguin
2016-09-28, 07:29 AM
Chaotic Evil characters must be utterly insane psychopathic murdermachines who need their daily blood bath before getting out of bed and will then fill their day with non-stop slaughter, rape, torture and kicking puppies for teh EVULZ. Also known as Stupid Evil.

There's a chaotic evil character in my group right now who is frankly adorable and I want to give them a hug. This doesn't stop them from ripping enemies to shreds and eating them (because Wild Shape), but still. Adorable.

Âmesang
2016-09-28, 09:58 AM
Chaotic Evil characters must be utterly insane psychopathic murdermachines who need their daily blood bath before getting out of bed and will then fill their day with non-stop slaughter, rape, torture and kicking puppies for teh EVULZ. Also known as Stupid Evil.
That must be "Stupid Evil." :smallconfused: Who takes a bath while still in bed?

In before… (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJQEl5vcAo)

JAL_1138
2016-09-28, 10:21 AM
True but that's a horse of a different color. OMG that Lion is Eating a Zebra isn't a thing unless you are getting an uncensored view. Then it's still not wrong.

My dwarf druid makes goblin stew, he finds it tasty. He doesn't go out hunting Goblins for stew, but if the party has already killed some...

The gnome wizard has come around as well. Ah Neutrality

Last time I played Dark Sun, I was playing a Thri-Kreen and we had a halfling in the party. Both races are known on Athas for eating other sentients (particularly elves). We traded our favorite recipes while the elf in the party was right there in earshot, of course.

Asmotherion
2016-09-29, 01:38 AM
Last time I played Dark Sun, I was playing a Thri-Kreen and we had a halfling in the party. Both races are known on Athas for eating other sentients (particularly elves). We traded our favorite recipes while the elf in the party was right there in earshot, of course.

You remind me of a scenario: I was a neutral evil half-dragon sorcerer (eldritch theurge). I gave all the other PCs food nicknames (the half-orc barbarian was Pork Stake, the halfing rogue was "Kebab" and the female Human Druid was "Beef". When asked why I was calling them by meat names, I partially quoted the werewolf from the dark brotherhood (skyrim) saying: I'm a half dragon... it's a little difficult for me NOT to think of you as snacks. And you look delicious.

I hadn't searched lore a lot back then, it just felt natural to me that dragons would eat humanoids. He was of red dragon ancestry which conviniently fitted that statment

Didn't eat any of them, but digested:
-Every boss including an orc chiftan. In front of his people. (Intimidation was enough to have them swear obediance)
-The tarasque
-A vampire lord who's remains were used as "spice"
-A young wizard woman who was in love with him and wanted to convince him to kill his party and conquer the world with her.
-A drow elf Matron
-Naruto who made a cameo appearance (turned out to be some kind of simulacrum, as expected).

Masema
2016-11-06, 08:32 PM
I wonder if all Chaotic Evil must necessarily be relentless and hot blodded.

Could a CE character believable be a lazy, relaxed and cold individual that greedily sits on his hoard, giving no respect to laws or other people's lives but content to simply stay in his lair satisfying basic desires, showing his ferocity only when someone trespasses in his territory?

You could go one further down that path. A Completely Chaotic Evil person is basically someone who doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself.

I blame WOTC for making CE such a vicious class for poorly wording the definitions of both chaotic and evil.


I've said it before, but it's still as true as it ever was:

No matter what the character sheet says, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

So... What am I? I KNOW! Waffle Neutral.


Stereotype: Bards are quite silly.

Counterexample: ... *crickets chirp*

Okay, maybe it's not so much "stereotype" as "law of nature."
Not necessarily, some Bards are like Thom Merrilin from the Wheel of Time series. Able to mask a cunning and calculating mind on par of a Dragon behind a façade of a simple man.

etrpgb
2016-11-07, 05:08 PM
Drow, as portrayed in the FR books, are kinds Stupid Evil when considered as a culture/group. They basically squander their resources backstabbing every other drow all the time, and have no external allies (except Demons, who intend to exploit and betray them in turn, anyways) because everybody knows they will always backstab you.

Pretty much like humans seen from a planetary scale. Well, minus the demons.


About the topic, a Neutral is somebody that good and evil, chaos and lawfulness in similar way. So for example, in a enemy prison will randomly kill some prisoners, free some others...

DuctTapeKatar
2016-11-07, 08:45 PM
Drow, as portrayed in the FR books, are kinds Stupid Evil when considered as a culture/group. They basically squander their resources backstabbing every other drow all the time, and have no external allies (except Demons, who intend to exploit and betray them in turn, anyways) because everybody knows they will always backstab you.

But wait! There's more!

"A newly graduated priestess, powerful enough to summon powerful demons and/or control them? Let's have her summon a demon so it eats her while our graduated soldiers all watch and have an orgy!"

Seriously, at this point, I stopped taking the Drizzt series seriously. Not even George R.R. Martin would kill someone off so pointlessly. There are times I think that drow are only used as a joke race.




... Also, dwarves always are hairy people who love beer, are always clerics or fighters and have a masters degree in mining and archaeology.

Nexahs
2016-11-07, 11:47 PM
Every druid I've seen played has definitely been of the "survival of the fittest" persuasion, actually. I'm a bit surprised they have a rep as hippies.


"A newly graduated priestess, powerful enough to summon powerful demons and/or control them? Let's have her summon a demon so it eats her while our graduated soldiers all watch and have an orgy!"

....that... that happened?

2D8HP
2016-11-08, 01:18 PM
Every druid I've seen played has definitely been of the "survival of the fittest" persuasion, actually. I'm a bit surprised they have a rep as hippies

:confused:
By "hippies" do folks mean the Manson family?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DSs2bX13hVc/TSvlWfi0wuI/AAAAAAAAC5E/kwE-DYf3GtU/s280/alignmentchart.jpg


Druids serve only themselves and nature, they occasionally make human sacrifice, but on the other hand they aid the folk in agriculture and animal husbandry. Druids are, therefore, neutral

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DSs2bX13hVc/TSvgpztTNLI/AAAAAAAAC5A/9eyxWEs1B8g/s280/lordsummerisle.jpg

Tiktik Ironclaw
2016-11-08, 04:09 PM
The "dedicated to the defense of nature against civilization" part of the druid fluff is why they garnered a reputation as hippies. I prefer clerics when I want to take over every party role at low levels.

Also, every kobold is a master of trapsmithing and guerilla tactics...except all of those ones that charged straight at you at 1st-level.

Stealth Marmot
2016-11-08, 05:07 PM
Drow, as portrayed in the FR books, are kinds Stupid Evil when considered as a culture/group. They basically squander their resources backstabbing every other drow all the time, and have no external allies (except Demons, who intend to exploit and betray them in turn, anyways) because everybody knows they will always backstab you.

I have a great rant to quote here. I can only find the tail end of it, but the first part basically say that A. The Drow suck as a society and B. They were a matriarchy written by people in the 80's with so much experience with women that they were writing D&D manuals. (Obviously I hate that assumption and stereotype, particularly these days, but the Drow as written have a real echo of an embittered misogynistic kid who hates that girls don't date him and think that any society run by women would be psychotic, evil, and hate men)

The rant is as follows:

"The fact is that the drow do not live in a matriarchy. They live in a psycho bitchiarchy. Look at their patron deity. Lolth is a crazy teenage girl who really hates the funny feelings that boys give her so she beats them, devours them, and then cries about why no one wants to talk to her. Sometimes she wants to be nice, but she just can't give up that "necro-goth" spasm-anger image she worked so hard to build. She want to go to the prom, but everyone will make fun of her, so she'll just light their houses on fire and kill their babies instead. Her hair is black this week, blue next week, and shaved clean off the week after that. All the while, she's killing everyone who looks at her, everyone who ignores her, everyone who worships her, and everyone who forsakes her. She's practically a goth cheerleader."

As I get older and I get more familiar with gender issues and try to be more of a feminist, I keep looking back with more and more disdain towards the idea of Drow in general. Noting that the only society that is explicitly in the hold of women in the D&D universe is perversely evil, dysfunctional, and treat men horribly by nature gives a real bad image of the mindset of the designers. I don't want to cry that they were intentionally misogynistic in their mindset, but this is at the very least a troubling observation.

Plus the only "good" Drow is a man, so...

Setting aside even my views on gender issues, the Drow as written are, as Rich Burlew himself points out, lazy in a literary sense. They are the same race BUT EEEEVIL. Not to mention they are the the same race but ave a bunch of cool abilities on top of it, which makes him ask why they don't just WIN? I currently don't have Drow in my Pathfinder game, and I have no intentions of adding them, nor will I add Duergar or Sniverblein or whatever the evil gnomes are called. Those piss me off even more than the Drow because they were not only the lazy mirror universe bad guy versions of existing races, but they only became such after the success of an existing lazy mirror universe of existing race were made.

So you have something that is sexist, derivative, incredibly lazy, and yet inexplicably popular and then someone makes an even more lazy knockoff of THAT.

It's like when Battleship tried to ride Michael Bay's Transformers coattails.

Beleriphon
2016-11-09, 02:38 PM
Every druid I've seen played has definitely been of the "survival of the fittest" persuasion, actually. I'm a bit surprised they have a rep as hippies.



....that... that happened?

More or less. It wasn't the only priestess in the ceremony, its just happened to be the one that lost control of the creature summoned. Lets keep in mind that drow society is generally controlled more or less directly by Lloth, who tends to do things for the Lulz, or Evulz because she's nuts and wants control. You have to remember drow society isn't the way it is because they're all crazy, its nuts and crazy because a goddess that is nuts and crazy interferes constantly.

For more reasonable evil drow Vhaeraun's surface colony are evil, but not stupid.


The rant is as follows:

"The fact is that the drow do not live in a matriarchy. They live in a psycho bitchiarchy. Look at their patron deity. Lolth is a crazy teenage girl who really hates the funny feelings that boys give her so she beats them, devours them, and then cries about why no one wants to talk to her. Sometimes she wants to be nice, but she just can't give up that "necro-goth" spasm-anger image she worked so hard to build. She want to go to the prom, but everyone will make fun of her, so she'll just light their houses on fire and kill their babies instead. Her hair is black this week, blue next week, and shaved clean off the week after that. All the while, she's killing everyone who looks at her, everyone who ignores her, everyone who worships her, and everyone who forsakes her. She's practically a goth cheerleader."

As I get older and I get more familiar with gender issues and try to be more of a feminist, I keep looking back with more and more disdain towards the idea of Drow in general. Noting that the only society that is explicitly in the hold of women in the D&D universe is perversely evil, dysfunctional, and treat men horribly by nature gives a real bad image of the mindset of the designers. I don't want to cry that they were intentionally misogynistic in their mindset, but this is at the very least a troubling observation.

That's an interesting, and I don't think inaccurate, view. In particular the goth cheerleader Lloth part. I think the biggest problem with the drow, or in FR specifically, is that Menzoberranzan is presented as the default when in setting there are other drow cities are are more functional even if they are driven by evil tendencies (slaving, weird magic experiments, alliances with illithids, etc).

The whole killing the males thing is also part of the spider motif, black widows and all that. Which in and of itself is lazy, but if you're going with a female dominated society that has a thing for spiders then its not hard to make the leap and see where that goes. I mean really drow are a society of serial killers that all know they're serial killers and expect each to act on their impulses.

Lord Torath
2016-11-09, 02:50 PM
<snip> nor will I add Duergar or Sniverblein or whatever the evil gnomes are called. Those piss me off even more than the Drow because they were not only the lazy mirror universe bad guy versions of existing races, but they only became such after the success of an existing lazy mirror universe of existing race were made.Minor nitpic: Svifneblin (Deep Gnomes) were originally Chaotic Good (with Neutral Tendencies) and stayed that way through 2nd Edition AD&D. Not sure what's happened in later editions, though.

Beleriphon
2016-11-09, 02:54 PM
Minor nitpic: Svifneblin (Deep Gnomes) were originally Chaotic Good (with Neutral Tendencies) and stayed that way through 2nd Edition AD&D. Not sure what's happened in later editions, though.

Svirfneblin are still good aligned. They just live in the Underdark. So really they're just regular gnomes with abilities to bring them more inline with the rest of the overpowered Underdark creatures.

Lord Raziere
2016-11-09, 02:59 PM
I've said it before, but it's still as true as it ever was:

No matter what the character sheet says, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

I have a PC that doesn't follow any laws, doesn't need money and is loyal to their companions.

counterproof: achieved.

Stealth Marmot
2016-11-10, 09:43 AM
Svirfneblin are still good aligned. They just live in the Underdark. So really they're just regular gnomes with abilities to bring them more inline with the rest of the overpowered Underdark creatures.

Either way they're a lazy addition I won't be adding.

Tiktik Ironclaw
2016-11-10, 04:35 PM
Ah yes, the old "races in the Underdark that are just more powerful surface races are boring and unrealistic" issue. Right, right, stop that.

Rerailing the thread; all PCs are murderhobos...no group I have DMed for has disproved this, but that's not saying much.

Wizard is the best class...except for commoner, which has ALL of the hallmarks of a super-powerful class.

Arbane
2016-11-10, 09:05 PM
Druids are nature loving vegan hippies who practice beast-ahimsa.

"Druide always pick the hard way; it encourages natural selection." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0358.html)


There's a chaotic evil character in my group right now who is frankly adorable and I want to give them a hug. This doesn't stop them from ripping enemies to shreds and eating them (because Wild Shape), but still. Adorable.

So, they're playing a cat?

RustyArmor
2016-11-12, 12:22 AM
Do stereotypes even exist anymore? It seems being the opposite of the stereotype is more common then the stereotype.

Inevitability
2016-11-12, 02:15 AM
Do stereotypes even exist anymore? It seems being the opposite of the stereotype is more common then the stereotype.

Not too sure about that.

Take dwarves, which are portrayed as mountain-dwelling, lawful craftsman in every single D&D setting. Greyhawk, the FR, even Eberron all have the same kind of dwarf, which is a pity. The only exception I can think of is Dark Sun, but that's received very little support in the past decade.

dspeyer
2016-11-12, 12:36 PM
I recently played in a campaign where we encountered the Glorious Dwarven People's Republic Under the Mountain. It was basically North Korea except the rulers (and only the rulers) had powerful magic.

Technically it fulfilled those stereotypes, but it certainly twisted them.

Inevitability
2016-11-13, 03:32 AM
I recently played in a campaign where we encountered the Glorious Dwarven People's Republic Under the Mountain. It was basically North Korea except the rulers (and only the rulers) had powerful magic.

Technically it fulfilled those stereotypes, but it certainly twisted them.

Well, dwarves are Lawful...

Velaryon
2016-11-13, 07:43 PM
All Chaotic Neutral characters are really Chaotic Evil characters in disguise (or denial).

CrazyPenguin
2016-11-14, 08:21 AM
So, they're playing a cat?

In the sense that a mostly-tame tiger could be considered a cat, yes.