Alternatives to Downtime

[dropbear8mybaby]

I find the entire concept of downtime to be problematic in execution but I like the results of it. Like making magical items, building castles, carousing. These are all cool elements that I want to encourage the use of, but downtime is such a clunky, unintuitive way to go about it that very few players ever actually take advantage of it. I run two games where people have accumulated enough gold and downtime to do a ton of stuff, and yet they never do.

What alternative could I use to encourage doing these downtime activities?

[Anxe]

One method is training time. When a character gets enough XP to level up they have to pay a fee for supplies and spend two or three weeks training. Inevitably the PCs will level up at slightly different times.

What do they do while the other people train? Downtime activities.

If the players are getting these opportunities but simply not using them... it's their loss. Don't worry about it as long as your group is having fun.

[oxybe]

I find the entire concept of downtime to be problematic in execution but I like the results of it. Like making magical items, building castles, carousing. These are all cool elements that I want to encourage the use of, but downtime is such a clunky, unintuitive way to go about it that very few players ever actually take advantage of it. I run two games where people have accumulated enough gold and downtime to do a ton of stuff, and yet they never do.

What alternative could I use to encourage doing these downtime activities?

Is it actually a problem though? Not everyone want to carouse, build a castle or make magic items. If the players are ok having their character spend their time off in a comfortable room of an inn, enjoying the taking a stroll and taking in the local entertainment and eating good, warm food... that's still great IMO. Just ask the players what they want their PC to do, and if their PC is just chilling out for a bit, then you're doing the GM thing good. You can't force them to want to carouse or run a branch of Khorvaire Fried Cockarice.

[Tiktakkat]

I find the entire concept of downtime to be problematic in execution but I like the results of it. Like making magical items, building castles, carousing. These are all cool elements that I want to encourage the use of, but downtime is such a clunky, unintuitive way to go about it that very few players ever actually take advantage of it. I run two games where people have accumulated enough gold and downtime to do a ton of stuff, and yet they never do.

What alternative could I use to encourage doing these downtime activities?

The big drags on downtime systems are their complexity, which often require multiple cross-references for NPCs, and their resource requirement, typically multiple feats and lots of non-combat skills.

Streamline those down or out and you should find a lot more interest in using them.

Of course that means doing a LOT of rules writing yourself, but if you really want to encourage using such a system that is likely the best way to go about it.

[Darth Ultron]

What alternative could I use to encourage doing these downtime activities?

Well, you could railroad the game so it ends early and have all the PC's stop at a nice, friendly city. So if the game is planned to end at 11pm, you must make sure the big boss fight starts by 10 pm and is over by 10:45, at the latest. And by 10:45 make sure all the PC's are in the city of Safehaven, and then ask them if they want to do down time stuff.

Of course, they might use the extra 15 minutes to goof off, tell jokes, watch you tube videos and such...but you can still ask.

I do a lot of downtime things in e-mails during the week, and it works great. You do need players that can not only read and respond to an e-mail within a reasonable time, but also want to ''play the game'' by doing downtime things. And if you can overcome that huge hurdle, e-mail works great.

[hymer]

In my current 5e campaign (Westmarches-inspired sandbox), about half or less of the players are present for any given session. Those not present gain a period of downtime. In that way, the adventurers get downtime automatically (and advance at a much more reasonable rate, btw).

[Quertus]

I find the entire concept of downtime to be problematic in execution but I like the results of it. Like making magical items, building castles, carousing. These are all cool elements that I want to encourage the use of, but downtime is such a clunky, unintuitive way to go about it that very few players ever actually take advantage of it. I run two games where people have accumulated enough gold and downtime to do a ton of stuff, and yet they never do.

What alternative could I use to encourage doing these downtime activities?

Make magic items in fast time planes.

Get someone else to build your cattle while you go off adventuring.

Include party scenes in the game; perhaps when they return from a successful quest, a noble throws a party in their honor.



Well, you could railroad the game so it ends early and have all the PC's stop at a nice, friendly city. So if the game is planned to end at 11pm, you must make sure the big boss fight starts by 10 pm and is over by 10:45, at the latest. And by 10:45 make sure all the PC's are in the city of Safehaven, and then ask them if they want to do down time stuff.

Of course, they might use the extra 15 minutes to goof off, tell jokes, watch you tube videos and such...but you can still ask.

I do a lot of downtime things in e-mails during the week, and it works great. You do need players that can not only read and respond to an e-mail within a reasonable time, but also want to ''play the game'' by doing downtime things. And if you can overcome that huge hurdle, e-mail works great.

Imma second the "end the session back in town and handle downtime via email" idea.

[Ezeze]

Let me clarify a little bit here - what is it that you want your characters to do?

Are you trying to get them to put down roots between dungeon crawls? Are you trying to get them to develop and pursue their own goals? What about Downtime Activities do you like


Is it actually a problem though? Not everyone want to carouse, build a castle or make magic items.

This is kind of an assumption, but it's a starting point. Are you looking to have them carouse, build a castle or make magic items? If so, let me ask two questions;

1. Do you leave room to do those things?
2. Do you reward players for doing those things?

If you want them to carouse - do you have enough interesting, varied NPCs drawn up at the local watering hole for them to sit down and talk to so that the experience is fun? If you want them to build a castle - is there a geographic location in game where they might want a castle where there isn't already one?

And when I say "reward players" I don't necessarily mean mechanically. In my time GMing I've noticed there is really one best way to reward a PC for doing something, and that is to give them the spotlight for a little while. If Susie wants to make a magic item, and you want to encourage that kind of thing, lets take a few minutes at the table to discuss how she makes the object, what it ends up looking like and why it's impressive.

[Thrudd]

Not sure I understand. If there is something the players want, like to build a fortress or craft a magic item, then they will take the time to do those things. How is downtime unintuitive? It takes time to do things. Those things can't get done if the characters don't have time to do them. I'm not sure you can avoid downtime. Characters need to return to town and recuperate and heal and resupply - that's downtime. In addition to buying stuff like new armor or more arrows and gathering information, some of them might take time to craft stuff or hire artisans. If they aren't doing those things, they might not know that they can. Maybe they need a refresher on their options and the possibilities available to people with vast wealth.

[oxybe]

This is kind of an assumption, but it's a starting point. Are you looking to have them carouse, build a castle or make magic items? If so, let me ask two questions;

1. Do you leave room to do those things?
2. Do you reward players for doing those things?

If you want them to carouse - do you have enough interesting, varied NPCs drawn up at the local watering hole for them to sit down and talk to so that the experience is fun? If you want them to build a castle - is there a geographic location in game where they might want a castle where there isn't already one?

And when I say "reward players" I don't necessarily mean mechanically. In my time GMing I've noticed there is really one best way to reward a PC for doing something, and that is to give them the spotlight for a little while. If Susie wants to make a magic item, and you want to encourage that kind of thing, lets take a few minutes at the table to discuss how she makes the object, what it ends up looking like and why it's impressive.

Personally, no i don't look for them to do those specific things or put specific time just for that and expect people to do so.

If they're interested in a given activity, they would likely have told me in advance during character creation "Hey Ox, my character likes going out with the ladies and getting his game on, or hanging out at the pub making friends".

And I go "Ok let me know when we get in town and you'd like to do that and when there's a natural point to do so, we'll see what comes of it."

The reward for doing is so is usually the act itself. Characters who's goal carouse will likely get a first class ticket to Bonetown, population:2, and an expanded social network and contacts in various locations they're in.

Players who come to me and go "Hey now that we're reasonably strong, could we get a cool base?" and i'll give them opportunities to find or make their cool base and the benefits that come with having a base/HQ.

Like... i don't need to go out of my way to reward this stuff. If that's what the players are interested in, the act of doing the thing and reaching their goal is likely the reward in and of itself.

[Jay R]

I find the entire concept of downtime to be problematic in execution but I like the results of it. Like making magical items, building castles, carousing. These are all cool elements that I want to encourage the use of, but downtime is such a clunky, unintuitive way to go about it that very few players ever actually take advantage of it. I run two games where people have accumulated enough gold and downtime to do a ton of stuff, and yet they never do.

What alternative could I use to encourage doing these downtime activities?

Peacetime.

If your world is always filled with attacks on cities, plots to take over the world, and other threats to civilization, then the PCs must stay active. But that only occurs if there's always somebody to attack.

Sometimes, when you save the world, it stays saved for a few months.

[Demidos]

Imma second the "end the session back in town and handle downtime via email" idea.

Gonna third this.

[Ezeze]

Personally, no i don't look for them to do those specific things or put specific time just for that and expect people to do so.

You didn't author a thread asking for suggestions to encourage down time activities! :smalltongue:


And when I say "reward players" ... give them the spotlight for a little while. If Susie wants to make a magic item, and you want to encourage that kind of thing, lets take a few minutes at the table to discuss how she makes the object, what it ends up looking like and why it's impressive.


The reward for doing is so is usually the act itself.

So we agree! Great! :smallbiggrin:

[Thrawn4]

I find the entire concept of downtime to be problematic in execution but I like the results of it. Like making magical items, building castles, carousing. These are all cool elements that I want to encourage the use of, but downtime is such a clunky, unintuitive way to go about it that very few players ever actually take advantage of it. I run two games where people have accumulated enough gold and downtime to do a ton of stuff, and yet they never do.

What alternative could I use to encourage doing these downtime activities?
I understand that you are looking for ways to encourage players to pursue downtime activities of their own volition. An easy way to do so is to have them entangled in non-threatening activities like daily life. Family, friends, local citizens or travelling strangers might just want to have a talk, get some advice, need a hand or just dislike the characters. If the sorceror's father picks on him because he didn't become a manly fighter or the local pickpocket / orphan is hiding behind the characters in order to avoid the guards, players have to make a decision. Life does not have to wait for people to become active, it is active itself.

[Jay R]

Just tell them, "OK, three months will pass before our next adventure. If you want to do anything in that time, let me know."

Over half the group will do nothing, most of the rest will send a one- or two-sentence email, and one player will send you a series of emails detailing what he's doing day by day, and requesting answers to a long series of questions.

Nothing you do will change those percentages by much.

[Thrawn4]

Just tell them, "OK, three months will pass before our next adventure. If you want to do anything in that time, let me know."

Over half the group will do nothing, most of the rest will send a one- or two-sentence email, and one player will send you a series of emails detailing what he's doing day by day, and requesting answers to a long series of questions.

Nothing you do will change those percentages by much.

That sounds both horrible and contrary to my own experience.
Downtime can be a lot of fun and an excellent opportunity to develop the characters.

[Quertus]

That sounds both horrible and contrary to my own experience.
Downtime can be a lot of fun and an excellent opportunity to develop the characters.

So... What's your secret?

[Contrast]

I think the first thing to do is have a quick chat with your players - maybe they don't even realise you're sitting there waiting for them to build castles and the like and are trying to be 'good' players by not cluttering up the game. In none of the players are doing it there could also be a concern that they don't want to be 'that guy' who insists on spending 15 mins with the DM designing the outline of a dungeon system for their castle while all the other players twiddle their thumbs.

So have a chat with your players and ask if downtime is something they're interested in doing and explain that it is something you're interested in doing and looking to support. Hopefully that'll get some interest from your players.

As as in character motivation, you could give your characters 3 months off and give them a running commentary on what the NPCs in your setting have been up to and managed to achieve in that time. Only then ask your players what they're doing. If they still want to do nothing, fair enough. But if they hear the Braon Von Evil has been trying to pressure a poor noble family to sell him their castle because he wants to expand his influence and sale price is within their budget... I'd give them some options here though so that they don't assume this is a plot hook (or just use it as a plot hook - its your game!).

Another option would be to purposefully introduce these things as quest rewards. Your players rescue a skilled blacksmith who is grateful and can craft them magical weapons but only if they keep him funded and in stock with reagents. The duke rewards the players with a title for a quest and the title comes with a property or plot of land.

[Thrawn4]

So... What's your secret?
Not sure it's a secret, but I usually start gaming sessions with individual scenes for each character that take around 10 minutes game time. Usually the characters have some kind of occupation or interests (like a job, family, the need to go drinking or to find obscure lore), but even if they don't (an occasional problem amongst new players) you can have things happen to them: an orphan that begs for food in front of their house, superiors in the guild who want to involve them in petty politics, some jerk who is looking for trouble.... basically situations with low risk that require the players to make a decision. Even ignoring the orphan is a decision that shows whether a character is mercyful or cold hearted.

It helps if you require the players to come up with some background, e. g. usual occupation/way of getting money, at least one close person, their character's hopes and dreams as well as at least one personal flaw. By doing so they provide you with plenty of ideas to start with, and once you have recurring characters that are not random encounters but friends and foes, you create a feeling of familiarity and long-term goals that become worthwhile. Something that is worth fighting for or at least a convincing reason to come back. Of course, this is easier if your characters stay in one place, but firstly you can still have some kind of home to return to every few adventures, and secondly you don't really need more than one city for a great campaign.
I might not make friends by saying so, but if you depend on an entire world to come up with a good campaign, you probably miss out the important details that allow players to become attached to your setting.