Return to 3.5, HELP!!!

[SMac8988]

Hello giants! So as the title says I will be make a return to 3.5e after nearly a year in 5e, and a long time away from the game in general.

So I was wondering if the wonderful people here could give me some advice and help me build out a character. As of late in 5e I've been playing a barb or a ranger but I'm willing to try new things.

I prefer being up in a fight, with some skills or abilities to make it more than just attack attack attack. My characters typically are aloof, jokers but have a serious side in combat. The dm is saying level 12 for the game he has in mind. We have another dm currently story telling so I do have a little time to play this character.

Thanks all!!!

[ComaVision]

Level 12 when you guys haven't played 3.5 in a while? That's going to be a lot of confusion.

Anyway, you could just go straight Warblade, Crusader, or Swordsage from the Tome of Battle. They're all melee classes with options beyond "move and attack".

[Sandsarecool]

Level 12 when you guys haven't played 3.5 in a while? That's going to be a lot of confusion.

Anyway, you could just go straight Warblade, Crusader, or Swordsage from the Tome of Battle. They're all melee classes with options beyond "move and attack".

+1 to this; first thing that came to mind.
Alternatively, gish it up. Though that might be kinda difficult if you're rusty.

Just make sure you're having fun, I guess. I s'pose straight Ranger gives you a handful of spells and you can still be all 'up-in-yo-face', though it's a little... not very powerful.

[SMac8988]

Level 12 when you guys haven't played 3.5 in a while? That's going to be a lot of confusion.

Anyway, you could just go straight Warblade, Crusader, or Swordsage from the Tome of Battle. They're all melee classes with options beyond "move and attack".

We have been running like short quest sessions. We are currently finishing Curse of Strhad in 5e, then another friend is running a single mission in another game then to this. I figured it would be a bit rough, but I'm willing to roll with it.

I remember sword sage I think, it's a sect from samurai?

I also, could be wrong, but isn't 3.5 like very big on being optimal or your gonna have a really hard time?

[ComaVision]

I remember sword sage I think, it's a sect from samurai?
Nah, the name is fairly meaningless. They're the lightly armored alternative to Warblade or Crusader. They can do a pretty good monk or ninja archetype though.



I also, could be wrong, but isn't 3.5 like very big on being optimal or your gonna have a really hard time?

It can be. That was part of the reason I suggested one of the classes from Tome of Battle. They're very difficult to do poorly with.

[SMac8988]

Nah, the name is fairly meaningless. They're the lightly armored alternative to Warblade or Crusader. They can do a pretty good monk or ninja archetype though.




It can be. That was part of the reason I suggested one of the classes from Tome of Battle. They're very difficult to do poorly with.

Lol awesome. I think the last class I played in 3.5 was a goliath titan mauler, I think, but it felt very flat.

I'll look into sword sage!

[Sandsarecool]

Well then, good luck to you, fine... sir?

[SMac8988]

How are samurai? Like is there a ronin in style that can be in light armor and attack fast? Like Kenshin?

[Douglas]

If you're looking for a class named "Samurai" or "Ronin", both exist but they are very low power. If you're trying to build a high power character, you'd be best advised to ignore those particular classes.

If you're looking to build a character who can be described as a samurai, wearing light armor and attacking with fancy sword moves, the aforementioned Swordsage class can do that well.

[SMac8988]

If you're looking for a class named "Samurai" or "Ronin", both exist but they are very low power. If you're trying to build a high power character, you'd be best advised to ignore those particular classes.

If you're looking to build a character who can be described as a samurai, wearing light armor and attacking with fancy sword moves, the aforementioned Swordsage class can do that well.

Why is the samurai considered so bad, if you don't mind me asking?

[Andezzar]

Why is the samurai considered so bad, if you don't mind me asking?he gets fewer bonus feats than the fighter and his signature style (katana & wakizashi) TWF is worse than normal TWF, which isnt that good to begin with.

[Kaje]

Samurai's level 1 feature is EWP: bastard sword. Something that should just be listed in its proficiencies is instead passed off as a class feature. It is a garbage class.

[Douglas]

The Samurai class is in Complete Warrior, pages 8 through 10. The primary benefits it gets, beyond the basics of BAB, saves, hp, and skills, is a series of bonus feats. These feats are, primarily, the two-weapon fighting chain. A Fighter could get the exact same feats, get them sooner, and have more feats left over to spend on other things - and Fighter is considered a weak class around here. On top of this insult, TWF is usually an inferior combat style, with the specific exception of if you have large per-attack damage bonuses - which Samurai does not give you.

Samurai also gives you the ability to buff a single attack - slightly - between 1 and 4 times per day depending on your level. The 4th one comes at level 17. You could burn through all four uses of that ability in half of a single full attack, barely notice the benefit even in that one round, and be out for the rest of the day.

Finally, Samurai gives you various improvements to intimidation ability. This is the one and only thing Samurai does well, and a character built around scaring his enemies* can, eventually, at high levels, actually be pretty effective at that one single specific trick. Many enemies may be immune to it by those levels, though, and you have nothing good to fall back on or use for variety.

* You'll need more than just Samurai to make a really effective Intimidater.

[SMac8988]

Oh damn. That sucks, sad they made such an amazingly historic warrior kinda garbage.

How are Warblades?

[Soranar]

At that high of a level, certain combos work very well.

Consider this

Factotum 8, Monk 1, Factotum 3+

Race: Eneko (giant type, no LA, medium size + powerful build)
Template: Primordial Giant (+4 INT and other things )

STATs: max out your INT, then CON, then CHA, the rest is mostly irrelevant
you will need 17 DEX though

Alternate class features:

-decisive strike monk

Key feat: kung fu genius (use INT instead of WIS for Monk abilities including bonus to AC)

Basically, attack people with a shuriken, grant yourself extra actions then use manyshot to murder everything in sight

Keep enchanted shurikens for your normal decisive strike action, use your bow for your bonus standard action. Don't forget you can use a larger weapon since you have powerful build.

you'll need a dorje of control body for the best part of this trick to work: use control body on yourself

you use INT to hit, INT to damage, INT to AC (and it lasts minutes per caster level)

you can also take the feat knowledge devotion to further optimize your damage

So, in a single round, you do the following

-1 shuriken attack at double damage
-x manyshot attacks at double damage
-if you spend an inspiration point on manyshot, you also get your INT to damage through factotum and you get INT to damage again through the control body power

[SMac8988]

I'll have to read into a lot of that......

How does the switch hitter ranger work?

[sonofzeal]

Oh damn. That sucks, sad they made such an amazingly historic warrior kinda garbage.

How are Warblades?

Warblades are the badass action heroes - Xena, Conan, etc. They're strong at any point in the game, robust, adaptable on the battlefield, and can easily pull off stunts that strain credibility. A low level Warblade can break through iron doors with his fists, a mid level one can shrug off debuffs just by yelling loudly, and a high level one can throw a sword through half a dozen enemies and have it return to their hand.

Power wise, ToB classes are almost unfairly good in the 1-5 range, and strong right up to lvl 20. Your average, no-special-effort Warblade will just about be on par with a masterfully-built Fighter. Fortunately, the optimization ceiling is relatively low - you're not going to break the game with one (assuming a common-sense interpretation of Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics), and a well-made Barbarian can keep up in damage, or even exceed, anything a Warblade can put out. Still, Warblades are probably the strongest non-magical class in the game, and you can pick your maneuvers by rolling randomly and keep up with most parties just fine.

[sonofzeal]

I'll have to read into a lot of that......

How does the switch hitter ranger work?

You mean a Ranger that does both archery and melee?

........not that well, really. Not enough feats to go around, and magic weapons are super expensive. I've had some luck picking up Improved Grapple on an archer build though, if it's going to be a humanoid-heavy game - you can usually get Deflect Arrows at the same time (great for archery duels), you can usually have good odds 1v1 when you need to, the feat and equipment investment's usually less than trying to get melee combat competitive, and overall it's a reasonable backup if and when you can't get into a position to use the archery while providing occasional unexpected utility.

[SMac8988]

You mean a Ranger that does both archery and melee?

........not that well, really. Not enough feats to go around, and magic weapons are super expensive. I've had some luck picking up Improved Grapple on an archer build though, if it's going to be a humanoid-heavy game - you can usually get Deflect Arrows at the same time (great for archery duels), you can usually have good odds 1v1 when you need to, the feat and equipment investment's usually less than trying to get melee combat competitive, and overall it's a reasonable backup if and when you can't get into a position to use the archery while providing occasional unexpected utility.

I was reading Trent monk guide and it seems reasonable. Not top tier but functional and not just a fighter. But I'm looking to you all fire advice

[ComaVision]

I was reading Trent monk guide and it seems reasonable. Not top tier but functional and not just a fighter. But I'm looking to you all fire advice

Treantmonk's monk handbook is for Pathfinder. The Pathfinder monk is a little better than the 3.5 monk but you'd still be better off with a Swordsage for the same shtick.

[Andezzar]

A low level Warblade can break through iron doors with his fists, a mid level one can shrug off debuffs just by yelling loudly, and a high level one can throw a sword through half a dozen enemies and have it return to their hand.I know most of the maneuvers you alluded to , but what's the high level one?

[Manyasone]

Still, it's best to have some idea which way you want to go with a Warblade. I prefer the inevitable nightmare build, or a variation thereof

[Douglas]

I know most of the maneuvers you alluded to , but what's the high level one?
Lightning Throw, level 8 in Iron Heart, so a level 15 Warblade can get it. Hit everyone in a 30' line with a melee attack that gets 12d6 bonus damage.

@SMac8988 Btw, if you want to know what important stuff Swordsage and Warblade can do, you should be focusing your attention on the maneuvers, not the classes. There's some nice stuff in the classes, certainly, but the most valuable thing they give you is access to maneuvers.