I'm Thinking Of Playing A Cleric On My Second Game

[Bartmanhomer]

Hey everybody. I'm thinking of playing a chaotic good female lesser Drow cleric who use tarot cards and runes during her adventure. She worship Corellon Larethian. She's very intuitive and she is definitely a healer character. And this is her backstory: All her life she worship Lolth. Until she betrayed her own race and Lolth by abandoning her faith. About by her adulthood. She reform and join a new deity, Corellon Larethian. She taught by another reformed Drow, a male Drow cleric. They got married, have two wonderful kido and she off for her adventure. OK her backstory need some work. And if you want to know why I use a Drow instead of High Elf because Drow are very attractive. I know that everybody use a cleric in their game. I just want to know what it's like playing a cleric.

[Inevitability]

What kind of character do you want to play? So far all we have is a redeemed drow who now worships Corellon. Do you want to go melee? Summoner? Buffbot? Battlefield controller? Bow cleric? Give us something to work with.

If you want to focus on casting in exchange for martial power, take the Cloistered Cleric variant from Unearthed Arcana.

That said, the following will always apply: don't be a healbot who prepares nothing but heals every day. As soon as you get to level 3, ask the party members to all contribute a bit towards a Wand of Lesser Vigor. The wand will let you heal 11 damage with each of its fifty charges and costs only 750 GP. Once this happens, you'll barely need to prepare healing spells.

[Zanos]

All her life she worship Lolth. Until she betrayed her own race and Lolth by abandoning her faith.
You might want to expand on this. Leaving the only life you know when your entire species is incredibly insular and racist needs a bit more, especially considering how tired of a trope CG Drow have become.

Dire_Stirge is mostly right, but keep in mind Good clerics can spontaneously convert healing spells, so don't prepare any. Healing in combat is usually not a great idea, as using buffs to prevent your party from taking damage is more efficient, but don't be afraid to spontaneously convert to a healing spell if the team really needs it.

Clerics can be played many, many ways, however, due to having their entire spell list with a days notice. The traditional cleric uses spells to buff and then cracks head in melee, but you can dump physical stats and max wisdom and make an effective caster.

[Endarire]

Traditionally, character story matters far less on these boards than stats and goals (current and prospective).

Regarding mechanics, then normally, the only healing spells you should prepare are heal and mass heal, and those are level 6 and 9 spells for a Cleric. Your other spells should fill your primary and secondary roles. Pick summoning, buffing, melee, or archery as your primary role instead of healing.

This handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710.0) is useful.

[PersonMan]

A note on in-combat healing: It's generally considered a bad idea because people will normally be eating more damage than you can heal (or at least faster than you can heal it) and you can effectively prevent damage via buffing / debuffing / summoning / damaging which is often more effective.

However, in practice most groups will work just fine with in-combat healing, as it can keep someone standing or away from the 'one-hit-and-I-die' level of HP. There are just more efficient ways of keeping HP up - namely, proactively making the enemy incapable of reducing it. "You don't need to tank them if they're dead".

[redwizard007]

You are about to embark on a wonderful journey of discovery. The Cleric is the most versatile class in the game with enough options to make your head explode. The best advice has already been given... DON'T HEAL!!!

You can be a thematic healer with a few spells converted to healing after combat but spell use in a fight should be focused on killing bad guys, usually by making your party better at dealing or avoiding damage. Other than that, take a look at the plethora of Cleric Handbooks on there forums or stretch your imagination and go your own route with a build.

The important thing to remember is that you are not (usually) a sermon giving old lady in a robe. You are the sword of your god! Strike down the enemies of your church. Spread the faith through deeds and examples. Lead from the front as a Templar knight, a holy conquistador, or that English priest in the tapestry where they defeat the Saxons. Wear armor, whoop ass, praise Corellon.

[Bartmanhomer]

What kind of character do you want to play? So far all we have is a redeemed drow who now worships Corellon. Do you want to go melee? Summoner? Buffbot? Battlefield controller? Bow cleric? Give us something to work with.

If you want to focus on casting in exchange for martial power, take the Cloistered Cleric variant from Unearthed Arcana.

That said, the following will always apply: don't be a healbot who prepares nothing but heals every day. As soon as you get to level 3, ask the party members to all contribute a bit towards a Wand of Lesser Vigor. The wand will let you heal 11 damage with each of its fifty charges and costs only 750 GP. Once this happens, you'll barely need to prepare healing spells. I didn'the know that a Cleric has the ability to summon. I thought that only wizards and sorcerera can summon.

[rrwoods]

Nah, clerics get access to the entire Summon Monster I - IX line.

Also, I'll say this: "don't heal" is good advice for building your character, but if you stick too closely to that in dire emergency situations you're gonna have a bad time. Every once in a while there comes a time when a downed party member needs to be healed or they'll die. In addition, Close Wounds (Spell Compendium) is an immediate-action ranged heal spell you cast in response to someone taking damage.

Regarding backstory: I'll echo the sentiment that the biggest hole is why you left your people. Was there a traumatic incident? A view to the outside world that opened your eyes to something important? Or something else entirely maybe. Figuring out what that is will inform quite a bit about who you are.

[Inevitability]

I didn'the know that a Cleric has the ability to summon. I thought that only wizards and sorcerera can summon.

Arguably, clerics are better summoners than wizards. The Dragon Below domain, for one, gives Augment Summoning for free, the Summoner domain adds +2 CL to all of your summoning spells. And as has already been said: they have the entire Summon Monster line.

[Bartmanhomer]

Nah, clerics get access to the entire Summon Monster I - IX line.

Also, I'll say this: "don't heal" is good advice for building your character, but if you stick too closely to that in dire emergency situations you're gonna have a bad time. Every once in a while there comes a time when a downed party member needs to be healed or they'll die. In addition, Close Wounds (Spell Compendium) is an immediate-action ranged heal spell you cast in response to someone taking damage.

Regarding backstory: I'll echo the sentiment that the biggest hole is why you left your people. Was there a traumatic incident? A view to the outside world that opened your eyes to something important? Or something else entirely maybe. Figuring out what that is will inform quite a bit about who you are.

Yeah there was a traumatic incident. The clergy of Lolth sacrifice the female drow parents. Which leads her to leave her false faith.

[Inevitability]

Yeah there was a traumatic incident. The clergy of Lolth sacrifice the female drow parents. Which leads her to leave her false faith.

That's fascinating: I'm sure your drow has plenty of ways in which she is different from all those other CG drow. However, it's not important right now.

What is, and what I assume you're asking about, is what kind of character you want to play. Clerics, like all caster classes, are very versatile, and some information on what kind of role you want to fill would be very helpful to everyone here.

[Bartmanhomer]

That's fascinating: I'm sure your drow has plenty of ways in which she is different from all those other CG drow. However, it's not important right now.

What is, and what I assume you're asking about, is what kind of character you want to play. Clerics, like all caster classes, are very versatile, and some information on what kind of role you want to fill would be very helpful to everyone here.

I like the summoner role. What kind of creature does a cleric summon anyway?

[Hunter Noventa]

I like the summoner role. What kind of creature does a cleric summon anyway?

Everything that isn't evil from the various Summon Monster lists. So you'd start with Celestial-templated animals and move up to elemental and actual Celestials. Summoning is very versatile, especially once you get access to the Planar Binding spells. But it's really underpowered at lower levels where you're spending a round to summon a creature that will only exist for two or three rounds.

However, buff spells can go really well with Summoning. For example, you Summon a Celestial Gorilla (I don't know if that's on the list, it's just an example). And on the round it appears, you cast Bull's Strength on it, you just made it a lot more effective, but you do have to keep in mind the time limits on summons, that Bull's Strength might go better on your party's melee character.

[Inevitability]

As a CG cleric, you can summon non-evil and non-lawful creatures from the summon lists. With Summon Monster 1, that'd be celestial giant fire beetles, celestial porpoises, celestial badgers and celestial monkeys. The fire beetle and badger are decent melee creatures (and at worst, they'll tank a hit for the fighter), the porposie is useful should you find yourself underwater, and the monkey can use simple items or trigger traps (remember that summoned monsters can't die, only disappear: having one trigger a deadly trap isn't evil).

I recommend the following handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5) for analysis of all the stuff you can summon.

[rrwoods]

That's fascinating: I'm sure your drow has plenty of ways in which she is different from all those other CG drow. However, it's not important right now.

What is, and what I assume you're asking about, is what kind of character you want to play. Clerics, like all caster classes, are very versatile, and some information on what kind of role you want to fill would be very helpful to everyone here.
Cut the guy a little slack here -- he was responding to a direct inquiry about character background designed to find out more about who he is, which can help inform how one can best mechanically express themselves.

[Bartmanhomer]

Just to let everybody know her name is Charlotte Heart.

[Pyromancer999]

A good build for a summoner cleric would be (Cloistered) Cleric 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5. If you're not restricted to Corellon's domains, go Trickery(for easier entry into Malconvoker) and Summoning. Nets you a whole lot of Planar Ally buffs, a Planar Cohort(a servant of Corellon or some other Elvish deity has been sent to join you in your service, or is at least willing to), and also lets you summon evil creatures in the service of good, gaining enhancements to that. Why summon evil creatures in your quest for good? So you can trick the forces of Lolth and her allies into working against her.

After all, why shouldn't they assume you're evil? You are Drow, after all. Even if you're on the side of good, you are a Drow, with all the intelligence and cunning that entails. Use that to work towards the downfall of those who think themselves cleverer than you, including Lolth and her priestesses that stole your parents from you.

[Bartmanhomer]

A good build for a summoner cleric would be (Cloistered) Cleric 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5. If you're not restricted to Corellon's domains, go Trickery(for easier entry into Malconvoker) and Summoning. Nets you a whole lot of Planar Ally buffs, a Planar Cohort(a servant of Corellon or some other Elvish deity has been sent to join you in your service, or is at least willing to), and also lets you summon evil creatures in the service of good, gaining enhancements to that. Why summon evil creatures in your quest for good? So you can trick the forces of Lolth and her allies into working against her.

After all, why shouldn't they assume you're evil? You are Drow, after all. Even if you're on the side of good, you are a Drow, with all the intelligence and cunning that entails. Use that to work towards the downfall of those who think themselves cleverer than you, including Lolth and her priestesses that stole your parents from you. Oooh good idea. I like that. Any other suggestion for my cleric? :smile:

[Pyromancer999]

Oooh good idea. I like that. Any other suggestion for my cleric? :smile:

Not too much else to suggest. The Summoning Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11186) suggests that Demon Mastery could be a good feat for Malconvokers, and if you don't mind delaying 9th level spells by another level(1 lost from 1st level of Malconvoker), you can the Conjurer 1 variant from Unearthed Arcana to your build. It gives you Augment Summoning for free and reduces the casting time for all Summon Monster spells from 1 full round to 1 standard action. Go Focused Specialist for even more Conjurer spells if you want. Still gets 18/20 Cleric casting. That handbook is also a fantastic resource for further advice.

Also, you can take the Domain Spontaneous Casting Cleric ACF to be able to cast Summoning Domain spells spontaneously instead of Cure spells.

Edit: Also, deity-wise: You may want to also venerate Eilistraee, Corellon's daughter, and patron of good drow. She's also known to sing a song of freedom, life, and love to all drow, although few heed its call. Maybe even if she's not #1 on your character's list of deities she reveres, maybe she and her husband heard her song, which coupled with the death of her parents, lead her to act on her growing urge to be free of drow society. She's also more likely to have time to help you out in a pinch if Corellon's distracted or busy with something.

Another you may want to pay tribute to is Erevan Ilesere, the trickster god of the elves. Excellent for someone who wants to trick demons or literally anyone else. Erevan's also fond of mischief and some stealing, and a nice tribute would be the sacrifice of valuable items you steal from your enemies, especially if they are evil drow.

[Bartmanhomer]

Not too much else to suggest. The Summoning Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11186) suggests that Demon Mastery could be a good feat for Malconvokers, and if you don't mind delaying 9th level spells by another level(1 lost from 1st level of Malconvoker), you can the Conjurer 1 variant from Unearthed Arcana to your build. It gives you Augment Summoning for free and reduces the casting time for all Summon Monster spells from 1 full round to 1 standard action. Go Focused Specialist for even more Conjurer spells if you want. Still gets 18/20 Cleric casting. That handbook is also a fantastic resource for further advice.

Also, you can take the Domain Spontaneous Casting Cleric ACF to be able to cast Summoning Domain spells spontaneously instead of Cure spells.

Edit: Also, deity-wise: You may want to also venerate Eilistraee, Corellon's daughter, and patron of good drow. She's also known to sing a song of freedom, life, and love to all drow, although few heed its call. Maybe even if she's not #1 on your character's list of deities she reveres, maybe she and her husband heard her song, which coupled with the death of her parents, lead her to act on her growing urge to be free of drow society. She's also more likely to have time to help you out in a pinch if Corellon's distracted or busy with something.

Another you may want to pay tribute to is Erevan Ilesere, the trickster god of the elves. Excellent for someone who wants to trick demons or literally anyone else. Erevan's also fond of mischief and some stealing, and a nice tribute would be the sacrifice of valuable items you steal from your enemies, especially if they are evil drow.

Oh yeah. I forgot about those deities. It never came into mind. Here's more of Charlotte Heart backstory: Ever since Charlotte convert to Corellon, she start to preach the high elf leader deity word throughout the land. In fact she converted three female drow to Corellon and they became good friends. Charlotte was very happy with her new spiritual life. She also made friends with other priest and priestess in other elves deities.

[Yahzi]

I just want to know what it's like playing a cleric.
It depends entirely on your DM.

If you are playing a dungeon crawl, the cleric is the most powerful character to be. Really, there's no reason to be anything else: convince the rest of your group to play clerics too. Magic, healing, and fighting: what else do you need?

If you are playing a sandbox world, with towns and nobles and such, the cleric is the most powerful character possible. He's like a doctor, a judge, and a general all rolled into one, and in short order should be running the civilized world. It helps to have assistants; see if you can convince the rest of your group to play clerics too.

[Bartmanhomer]

It depends entirely on your DM.

If you are playing a dungeon crawl, the cleric is the most powerful character to be. Really, there's no reason to be anything else: convince the rest of your group to play clerics too. Magic, healing, and fighting: what else do you need?

If you are playing a sandbox world, with towns and nobles and such, the cleric is the most powerful character possible. He's like a doctor, a judge, and a general all rolled into one, and in short order should be running the civilized world. It helps to have assistants; see if you can convince the rest of your group to play clerics too.
Wow! So a cleric can do just about everything in the game. Sweet :smile:

[Inevitability]

Wow! So a cleric can do just about everything in the game. Sweet :smile:

Welcome to tier 1 classes.

[Douglas]

Wow! So a cleric can do just about everything in the game. Sweet :smile:
Here (http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=247) is a short story featuring a party of four clerics taking on a classic D&D module.

[Bartmanhomer]

Here (http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=247) is a short story featuring a party of four clerics taking on a classic D&D module.

Wow. Thanks for the funny comic Douglas. :smile:


Welcome to tier 1 classes.

What's a tier 1 classes?

[Eldariel]

What's a tier 1 classes?

Tier System (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0) assesses class balance based on their ability to solve encounters in a daily adventurer's life, as well as shape the fabric of the gameworld and do ridiculously powerful things. Tier 1 classes are essentially the most powerful of the bunch: they are capable of solving a massive number of different encounters at any given time and switch their abilities depending on what they need to face; they also possess the ability to go over the top and become one-man armies. Core exemplars of this archetype are all the casters that get 9th level spells and can switch their spell loadout day-to-day: that is, Cleric, Druid and Wizard.

This contrasts with many other classes that have far less varied problemsolving and adaptation ability: Sorcerer is a spell level behind but otherwise can be every bit as strong as a Wizard, but at the cost of being locked into a set of choices in the long term (thus, if they find out they're fighting a red dragon, they can't just switch their spells to prepare for a red dragon; they have one set of generalist spells and that'll do). This is why Sorcerer is tier 2 while Wizard is tier 1: both can make their own armies and disjoin magic and achieve immunity to basically anything and create planes and teleport and planar travel and ask gods about the future and so on, but a Wizard can do a different set of things every day.

It also contrasts with e.g. Fighters, Barbarians and company who mostly can solve one-two types of encounters (generally by walking at things and hitting them in the face until they stop moving). Casters can detect thoughts, fly, detect magic, teleport, etc. to solve all manners of encounters that don't involve hitting things with a stick. They can also summon things to hit things for them or trigger traps from safety or whatever. Basically, spellcasters with wide lists come with built-in tools for doing all sorts of things besides just fighting and even in fighting, they can attack the enemy's weaknesses much better than a warrior can (since their spells can target touch AC, any of the target's saves, the target's AC or just affect them directly; depends on what this particular target is weak to).

[Bartmanhomer]

Tier System (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0) assesses class balance based on their ability to solve encounters in a daily adventurer's life, as well as shape the fabric of the gameworld and do ridiculously powerful things. Tier 1 classes are essentially the most powerful of the bunch: they are capable of solving a massive number of different encounters at any given time and switch their abilities depending on what they need to face; they also possess the ability to go over the top and become one-man armies. Core exemplars of this archetype are all the casters that get 9th level spells and can switch their spell loadout day-to-day: that is, Cleric, Druid and Wizard.

This contrasts with many other classes that have far less varied problemsolving and adaptation ability: Sorcerer is a spell level behind but otherwise can be every bit as strong as a Wizard, but at the cost of being locked into a set of choices in the long term (thus, if they find out they're fighting a red dragon, they can't just switch their spells to prepare for a red dragon; they have one set of generalist spells and that'll do). This is why Sorcerer is tier 2 while Wizard is tier 1: both can make their own armies and disjoin magic and achieve immunity to basically anything and create planes and teleport and planar travel and ask gods about the future and so on, but a Wizard can do a different set of things every day.

It also contrasts with e.g. Fighters, Barbarians and company who mostly can solve one-two types of encounters (generally by walking at things and hitting them in the face until they stop moving). Casters can detect thoughts, fly, detect magic, teleport, etc. to solve all manners of encounters that don't involve hitting things with a stick. They can also summon things to hit things for them or trigger traps from safety or whatever. Basically, spellcasters with wide lists come with built-in tools for doing all sorts of things besides just fighting and even in fighting, they can attack the enemy's weaknesses much better than a warrior can (since their spells can target touch AC, any of the target's saves, the target's AC or just affect them directly; depends on what this particular target is weak to).

Call me crazy but wouldn't that make the tier 1 classes a bit overpowered with so many abilities and powers and not to mention combined other classes?

[Pyromancer999]

Tiers are more power/versatility-based assuming equal optimization and experience for all in the party. How well a character is played, even when thoroughly optimized, depends at least a bit on the player behind it. It is perfectly possible to mess up a Wizard and equally possible to play a cleric without exploding the sun/being a Mary Sue.

Also, just to note, if you do go the summoning route that I suggested, you'll be more of a caster cleric, given that path makes you wind up with +9 BAB. Granted, Divine Power lets you overcome this for a little bit(or for the whole day, with Divine Metamagic and Persist Spell), but there are plenty other things you can do without always being in the thick of the fight yourself. That's kind of what summons/the party meat shield is for anyway.

The cleric's Tier 1-ness does make it a viable option to take on a secondary role as party buffer, if you like and have the spell slots to spare(which you should if you have Domain Spontaneity for the Summoning Domain, as you won't have to prepare as many summoning spells ahead of time).

[Bartmanhomer]

Tiers are more power/versatility-based assuming equal optimization and experience for all in the party. How well a character is played, even when thoroughly optimized, depends at least a bit on the player behind it. It is perfectly possible to mess up a Wizard and equally possible to play a cleric without exploding the sun/being a Mary Sue.

Also, just to note, if you do go the summoning route that I suggested, you'll be more of a caster cleric, given that path makes you wind up with +9 BAB. Granted, Divine Power lets you overcome this for a little bit(or for the whole day, with Divine Metamagic and Persist Spell), but there are plenty other things you can do without always being in the thick of the fight yourself. That's kind of what summons/the party meat shield is for anyway.

The cleric's Tier 1-ness does make it a viable option to take on a secondary role as party buffer, if you like and have the spell slots to spare(which you should if you have Domain Spontaneity for the Summoning Domain, as you won't have to prepare as many summoning spells ahead of time).
OK that'she good to know. I'm still sticking with the summoning route for Charlotte Heart. To be quite honest about my deity selection I was going to choose Pelor as my first choice but then I just decide to stick with the high elf leader deity.

[Pyromancer999]

Yeah, a good choice considering the whole mess with the Pelor, the Burning Hate theory. I'm on mobile, so not as able to link to it, but it's easy to Google if you wanted to know more about that and why Pelor is this not the best choice for a redeemed drow.

[Bartmanhomer]

Yeah, a good choice considering the whole mess with the Pelor, the Burning Hate theory. I'm on mobile, so not as able to link to it, but it's easy to Google if you wanted to know more about that and why Pelor is this not the best choice for a redeemed drow.

I read more information about Pelor and he sound like a total jerk. Good thing he wasn'the my first choice. :smile:

[Bartmanhomer]

Charlotte Heart personality is very good. She nurturing, caring, emotional. She's more like a mother figure to the party. After all she's a mother herself. Hee negative personality is she rarely argue with the party and she cries when someone hurt her feelings. She's very intuitive and she rather use her intuition than her logic. Her husband name is George Heart. Her older son is Kyle Heart and her youngest daughter is Rochelle Heart.

[Irennan]

I read more information about Pelor and he sound like a total jerk. Good thing he wasn'the my first choice. :smile:

If you worry about your deity being a jerk, then you should avoid Corellon like the plague (if you play Realms). In the Realms, he's one of the most greek-like deities that you can find. His pride led him to curse and exile a whole people, even innocents (even those who were victims of a near extermination led by the elves when they started a military campaign to conquer the dark elves of a particular nation, Miyeritar, where Lolth wasn't even known and Eilistraee had a strong influence), even after they had already lost the 4th Crown War and had been defeated, turning his back on them and pushing them into Lolth's arms (since her cults were starting to form among the ranks of another dark elven nation, Ilythiir, due to their nobles making deals with Lolth).

As victors, the elves could have banned open worship of Lolth, to pose an obstacle to the diffusion of this religion. It would have become more of a cult. Taking down all those nobles who had dealt with Lolth and had become tainted would have also helped. Normal investigations, interrogations of suspects in zones of truth would also have been usable to eradicate the cult. The elves could have shown to the general population of Ilythiir that the Tel'Quessir were not their enemies, helping the refugees of Miyeritar, and showing mercy to the defeated. But no, Corellon provided the magic for the banishment (making the situation of Eilistraee, who was already weakened because of then loss of the vast majority of her followers to the genocide performed by the sun elves, even worse), and after his curse, the elven nations combined their effort to lead an attack against the already defeated drow, including the survivor of the above-mentioned nation, to drive them all underground.

And after all of that, Corellon doesn't even bother to raise a single finger to help his daughter (Eilistraee) in her difficult battle to undo what he contributed to start (in fact, their relationship is strained). He didn't do *anything* even when Eilistraee put her life on the line for the drow, and came in only after her daughter had been defeated, only to take her followers (and only because some mage performed a ritual that reverted their curse, which is all kinds of ugly and wrong, because they never asked or cared about their skin being changed, and because otherwise Corellon wouldn't have bothered), and then proceeded to do nothing for about a century, until Eilistraee managed to return to life.

I honestly recommend you Sehanine Moonbow/Angharradh, if you want an elven deity, or Eilistraee herself.

[Red Fel]

Oh yeah. I forgot about those deities. It never came into mind. Here's more of Charlotte Heart backstory: Ever since Charlotte convert to Corellon, she start to preach the high elf leader deity word throughout the land. In fact she converted three female drow to Corellon and they became good friends. Charlotte was very happy with her new spiritual life. She also made friends with other priest and priestess in other elves deities.

Here's a question: Why Corellon? Ignoring for a moment the fact that Corellon explicitly and forever hates the Drow, there's already a CG deity for Good Drow - Eilistraee. Others have mentioned her, and you seem to have glossed by that. A Drow, even a Good Drow, worshiping Corellon is a lot like an Orc worshiping Corellon - you could certainly do it, but it's incredibly unlikely that he will ever reciprocate. Corellon hates the Orcs, he hates the Drow, he's really a lot of a racist pig for a CG deity. By contrast, Eilistraee is all about teaching Drow the error of their ways and bringing them into a positive and better future.

And yes. Tier 1 classes are powerful, both because of their versatility (in being able to do pretty much anything) and because of their power (there are a handful of spells that amount to basically "I win" buttons). You don't have to play a class to its maximum ability, of course; just because the class has the potential to break the game doesn't mean it always will. That depends on the player.

EDIT: Hold up, quick question. She has kids? Out of curiosity, who takes care of her kids while she's out adventuring? Does she have family? Does she leave them with other clergy? What's that situation like?

[Bartmanhomer]

Here's a question: Why Corellon? Ignoring for a moment the fact that Corellon explicitly and forever hates the Drow, there's already a CG deity for Good Drow - Eilistraee. Others have mentioned her, and you seem to have glossed by that. A Drow, even a Good Drow, worshiping Corellon is a lot like an Orc worshiping Corellon - you could certainly do it, but it's incredibly unlikely that he will ever reciprocate. Corellon hates the Orcs, he hates the Drow, he's really a lot of a racist pig for a CG deity. By contrast, Eilistraee is all about teaching Drow the error of their ways and bringing them into a positive and better future.

And yes. Tier 1 classes are powerful, both because of their versatility (in being able to do pretty much anything) and because of their power (there are a handful of spells that amount to basically "I win" buttons). You don't have to play a class to its maximum ability, of course; just because the class has the potential to break the game doesn't mean it always will. That depends on the player.

EDIT: Hold up, quick question. She has kids? Out of curiosity, who takes care of her kids while she's out adventuring? Does she have family? Does she leave them with other clergy? What's that situation like?

To answer your question, her husband takes care of the kids.

[Red Fel]

To answer your question, her husband takes care of the kids.

And to answer my other question?

[Bartmanhomer]

And to answer my other question?

The situation for her husband to babysitting their kids is great. He always takes care of the kids while Charlotte goes out adventurin. They got a very stable home environment. So pretty much everything works out well for the kids.

[Deadline]

The situation for her husband to babysitting their kids is great. He always takes care of the kids while Charlotte goes out adventurin. They got a very stable home environment. So pretty much everything works out well for the kids.

Pretty sure he meant the question of why your character worships Corellon instead of Ellistraee.

[Bartmanhomer]

Pretty sure he meant the question of why your character worships Corellon instead of Ellistraee.

I didn't thought about those deities until Pyro man certain mention it.

[Irennan]

Well, (s)he likes Corellon more, I guess. There is no need to justify his/her choice, as long as it makes some degree of sense in-world. Corellon *is* a jerk to the drow in the Realms, and it's very unlikely for the drow to turn to him, but perhaps he's different in his/her campaign.

[Bartmanhomer]

Well, (s)he likes Corellon more, I guess. There is no need to justify his/her choice, as long as it makes some degree of sense in-world. Corellon *is* a jerk to the drow in the Realms, and it's very unlikely for the drow to turn to him, but perhaps he's different in his/her campaign.

Now that people mention it. I'll choose good drow goddess.

[Irennan]

Now that people mention it. I'll choose good drow goddess.

I didn't mean to say that you should feel forced to pick Eilistraee. The character is yours, while Eilistraee makes more sense in-world, while Corellon did really bad stuff, pick her only if you feel that she reflects your character concept better. This is about having fun and creating your own story, after all.

Who knows, maybe your PC could become the catalyst to open Corellon's eyes and heal his relationship with his daughter Eilistraee. Maybe you heard Eilistraee's song first, felt her call, and on the surface you learned about Corellon, and started to worship both father and daughter (polytheism is actually pretty common in the Realms, and a cleric of a deity could surely pay homage to deities allied to their patron).

[Bartmanhomer]

I didn't mean to say that you should feel forced to pick Eilistraee. The character is yours, while Eilistraee makes more sense in-world, while Corellon did really bad stuff, pick her only if you feel that she reflects your character concept better. This is about having fun and creating your own story, after all.

Who knows, maybe your PC could become the catalyst to open Corellon's eyes and heal his relationship with his daughter Eilistraee. Maybe you heard Eilistraee's song first, felt her call, and on the surface you learned about Corellon, and started to worship both father and daughter (polytheism is actually pretty common in the Realms, and a cleric of a deity could surely pay homage to deities allied to their patron).
The reason I said that because I thought it was a stupid idea to put a redeemed drow to worship a high elf deity. Well technically Charlotte is consider an elf but a dark elf. :frown:

[Bartmanhomer]

Does anybody else have any other suggestions or comments for Charlotte Heart?

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok. I'm going to create Charlotte Heart. :smile:

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok here's my character, Charlotte Heart. Just to let everybody know, I'm playing a lesser drow:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=965640

[Pyromancer999]

What domains are you taking? Not seeing them noted. Assuming at least one is Summoning, but what is the other?

Also, if following through on the build I recommended, I'd recommend you go Cloistered Cleric(which only makes a difference of 1 less BAB from Cleric levels), which gets you a pseudo-Bardic Knowledge, the Knowledge domain, and 6+Int skill points/level instead of 2+Int. For feats, Spell Focus(Conjuration) might be good, but Improved Initiative is okay.

[Bartmanhomer]

What domains are you taking? Not seeing them noted. Assuming at least one is Summoning, but what is the other?

Also, if following through on the build I recommended, I'd recommend you go Cloistered Cleric(which only makes a difference of 1 less BAB from Cleric levels), which gets you a pseudo-Bardic Knowledge, the Knowledge domain, and 6+Int skill points/level instead of 2+Int. For feats, Spell Focus(Conjuration) might be good, but Improved Initiative is okay.
I'm taking domain: Good.

[Inevitability]

I'm taking domain: Good.

Yeah... not a great idea. Useful [Good] spells aren't exactly common, and even then a single point to save DC's won't help you much. In addition, the domain spells are available by default to a cleric.

[Bartmanhomer]

Yeah... not a great idea. Useful [Good] spells aren't exactly common, and even then a single point to save DC's won't help you much. In addition, the domain spells are available by default to a cleric.

Well I'mean defiantly not taking War nor Chaos Domain. I guess I've to stick with Protection.

[Pyromancer999]

Well I'mean defiantly not taking War nor Chaos Domain. I guess I've to stick with Protection.

You can also take the Elf Domain. Not a bad selection there.

[Inevitability]

Well I'mean defiantly not taking War nor Chaos Domain. I guess I've to stick with Protection.

While Corellon only has four PHB domains, later books created new domains, some of which were retroactively given to Corellon. The Elf domain has already been mentioned, but the Community, Liberation and Pride domains are also available.

Community's granted power will be useful at lower levels while its spells are more attractive at higher ones. Decide for yourself if you can handle the gap during mid-levels.

Liberation has a great granted power if your DM likes mind-affecting effects, but its spells are so-so. If you're already taking Protection you'll get mind blank from that at higher levels, so there isn't really a pressing need for Liberation. If you decide to swap out Protection for something else, consider Liberation.

The Pride domain is probably most interesting. Its granted power allows rerolls of saving throws on a 1 (which would otherwise mean instant failure) and the spells it gives are otherwise unavailable to clerics yet nice to have. The few spells that do appear on the cleric list aren't a bad use of your domain slot either.

Personally, I'd take War and Pride if I were going for a melee-type cleric, Elf and Pride for an archer-type, and Liberation and Pride if I wanted to play a caster-type.

[Fizban]

Yeah... not a great idea. Useful [Good] spells aren't exactly common, and even then a single point to save DC's won't help you much. In addition, the domain spells are available by default to a cleric.
The Good domain is the only one that has Holy Smite (not counting a few splat domains), which is a perfectly castable spell and required if you ever want to craft Holy weapons. The other spells are also perfectly usable, and a significant concern with domains is that you be able to make use of that domain slot: nothing's worse than taking two wacky domains for spell access and finding you have a slot that's not useful for daily adventuring, while shifting your copy of Magic Circle over to the domain slot leaves room for other cleric spells in the main. I would generally recommend one boring domain and one interesting domain Also, the domain benefit is +1 caster level, not save DCs.

Back to the OP: you should also have two domains, unless you traded one of them for something else. Elistraee allows the following domains: Chaos, Charm, Drow, Elf, Good, Moon, and Portal. Of these, I would not recommend Chaos (you've already got Good and they're mostly the same), or Portal (it's all super specific spells for messing with magical portals).

The Moon domain is particularly unique, many of it's spells aren't typically useful but if you have some good armor and shield to survive melee combat then Moon Blade is pretty neat, Faerie Fire is a good spell that full Drow have as a racial ability, and while Moon Path is meant as a simple bridge you can use it like a more limited Wall of Force if you need to.

The Charm domain is fairly simple in it's use, while the Drow domain is probably a little too evily drow for your taste. The Elf domain is okay, but is more for people that want to build archery clerics: drow get hand crossbows instead of normal bows, and you've started with Improved Initiative, so archery build is probably not a good plan.

I think I'd recommend Charm. Your character description says she's insecure, and what better way to (badly) deal with insecurity then to pray for the ability to magically charm people into liking you and doing what you tell them? But in a Good way.

Edit: didn't realize Corellon was still the name of the game. In that case I'd go with Renewal: the domain ability can save your life at any level but is especially great at 1st, it still has Charm Person for it's 1st level spell, and Reincarnate costs way less than Raise Dead if your group can handle the wackiness of randomly rolling their new race. For someone who's specifically turning their back on their Drow heritage, Renewal seems like a pretty fitting domain.

A final note on prepared spells and character sheet: I would not recommend using Summon Monster at 1st level. The casting time is too long and the duration too short to use right now. Similarly the spell Divine Favor is better for clerics who are stronger in weapon combat, which is not you, so a Bless spell that improves the whole party would be more useful. You'll want to separate your spells out by level and keep the domain slots separate (domain slots can't be converted into healing spells), write down your bonuses for turning undead, fill in your armor section, and so on (you also can't afford Full Plate at 1st level, unless your DM is just giving it to you for free). My sheets aren't perfect and might be a little intimidating, but here's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=67527), a couple (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=20448).

[Bartmanhomer]

The Good domain is the only one that has Holy Smite (not counting a few splat domains), which is a perfectly castable spell and required if you ever want to craft Holy weapons. The other spells are also perfectly usable, and a significant concern with domains is that you be able to make use of that domain slot: nothing's worse than taking two wacky domains for spell access and finding you have a slot that's not useful for daily adventuring, while shifting your copy of Magic Circle over to the domain slot leaves room for other cleric spells in the main. I would generally recommend one boring domain and one interesting domain Also, the domain benefit is +1 caster level, not save DCs.

Back to the OP: you should also have two domains, unless you traded one of them for something else. Elistraee allows the following domains: Chaos, Charm, Drow, Elf, Good, Moon, and Portal. Of these, I would not recommend Chaos (you've already got Good and they're mostly the same), or Portal (it's all super specific spells for messing with magical portals).

The Moon domain is particularly unique, many of it's spells aren't typically useful but if you have some good armor and shield to survive melee combat then Moon Blade is pretty neat, Faerie Fire is a good spell that full Drow have as a racial ability, and while Moon Path is meant as a simple bridge you can use it like a more limited Wall of Force if you need to.

The Charm domain is fairly simple in it's use, while the Drow domain is probably a little too evily drow for your taste. The Elf domain is okay, but is more for people that want to build archery clerics: drow get hand crossbows instead of normal bows, and you've started with Improved Initiative, so archery build is probably not a good plan.

I think I'd recommend Charm. Your character description says she's insecure, and what better way to (badly) deal with insecurity then to pray for the ability to magically charm people into liking you and doing what you tell them? But in a Good way.

Edit: didn't realize Corellon was still the name of the game. In that case I'd go with Renewal: the domain ability can save your life at any level but is especially great at 1st, it still has Charm Person for it's 1st level spell, and Reincarnate costs way less than Raise Dead if your group can handle the wackiness of randomly rolling their new race. For someone who's specifically turning their back on their Drow heritage, Renewal seems like a pretty fitting domain.

A final note on prepared spells and character sheet: I would not recommend using Summon Monster at 1st level. The casting time is too long and the duration too short to use right now. Similarly the spell Divine Favor is better for clerics who are stronger in weapon combat, which is not you, so a Bless spell that improves the whole party would be more useful. You'll want to separate your spells out by level and keep the domain slots separate (domain slots can't be converted into healing spells), write down your bonuses for turning undead, fill in your armor section, and so on (you also can't afford Full Plate at 1st level, unless your DM is just giving it to you for free). My sheets aren't perfect and might be a little intimidating, but here's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=67527), a couple (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=20448).
I didn't know if you could have two domain spells. I thought It was only one domain spell.

[Fizban]

You have one domain slot at each spell level, but you get two full domains. That gives you two choices for what to put in that domain slot each day when you prepare spells.

[Arbane]

Call me crazy but wouldn't that make the tier 1 classes a bit overpowered with so many abilities and powers and not to mention combined other classes?

It's a known problem. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496791-Is-there-anything-wrong-with-linear-Fighter-quadratic-Wizard)
Search for 'caster martial disparity' if you've got a day or three to kill reading arguments about it.

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok. Thanks for the feedback everybody. I'm going to polish Charlotte Heart sheet. Is there any other suggestion that I need to know or no? :smile:

[bean illus]

It depends entirely on your DM.

If you are playing a dungeon crawl, the cleric is the most powerful character to be. Really, there's no reason to be anything else: convince the rest of your group to play clerics too. Magic, healing, and fighting: what else do you need?

If you are playing a sandbox world, with towns and nobles and such, the cleric is the most powerful character possible. He's like a doctor, a judge, and a general all rolled into one, and in short order should be running the civilized world. It helps to have assistants; see if you can convince the rest of your group to play clerics too.

Lol. Try to make sure they go Cloistered Cleric. lol.

[Bartmanhomer]

OK I make Charlotte Heart into a Cloistered Cleric and make a few changes with the sheet.

[Thaneus]

why skill cook and heal? you heal with spell and cook with create food and create water :)
know religion and concentration need to be 4 ranks at level 1; my suggestion at least

[Bartmanhomer]

why skill cook and heal? you heal with spell and cook with create food and create water :)
know religion and concentration need to be 4 ranks at level 1; my suggestion at least

I fix that problem. Any other suggestion?

[Pyromancer999]

I fix that problem. Any other suggestion?

Cloistered Clerics get 6+Int mod skill points (x4 at level 1), so you have four more skills to max out at 1st level. If you're aiming for Malconvoker/Thaumaturgist, I'd recommend maxing out Knowledge(Planes), investing 2 skill points to put a rank in Bluff(it's a cross-class skill, so maximum ranks are equal to your level and it costs 2 skill points for every one rank) and investing skill points to learn Celestial and Infernal(two skill points for that since Speak Language is a class skill for Cloistered Clerics) to start qualifying for Malconvoker. Invest the rest of the skill points as you'd like(you'll have 12 skill points left over), I would recommend maxing out Diplomacy if you want to be slightly charismatic, or Heal for fluff and being able to stabilize people. You also have all Knowledges as class skills, so maybe a point or two in those would be decent if you have any left over, but you're not really an Int-based character.

After this, your only requirement skill-wise is to burn two skill points for a rank in Bluff each level until level 4, although Malconvoker works much better if you keep adding ranks, and you may want to find a way to get it as a class skill. The only way I can think of that could work for a cleric would be to have the Trickery Domain, which would require you to worship the whole Elven Pantheon(which is doable even if you regard Corellon Larethion the most highly), but you have already established that does not quite fit your character. You could alternatively select Dragontouched and then Draconic Heritage for a Dragon that has Bluff as its associated skill, but that would not kick in until 9th, as you do want Augment Summoning as soon as possible(unless you dipped Conjurer Wizard 1 for the standard-action summons and the Augment Summoning bonus feat, but even then doesn't kick in until 6th).

Also, you may want to note your abilities and domains on your class sheet, as it does not note the additional spells Cloistered Cleric adds, Turn Undead, or the Lore ability(basically Bardic Knowledge) that the Cloistered Cleric gets.

Edit: You've miscalculated your spells per day. Wisdom 16 only gets you 1 bonus 1st level spell per day. Also your HP and Armor, as Cloistered Clerics use a d6 hit die and only have proficiency in light armor. Make sure to get a Chain shirt for +4 AC.

[Bartmanhomer]

Cloistered Clerics get 6+Int mod skill points (x4 at level 1), so you have four more skills to max out at 1st level. If you're aiming for Malconvoker/Thaumaturgist, I'd recommend maxing out Knowledge(Planes), investing 2 skill points to put a rank in Bluff(it's a cross-class skill, so maximum ranks are equal to your level and it costs 2 skill points for every one rank) and investing skill points to learn Celestial and Infernal(two skill points for that since Speak Language is a class skill for Cloistered Clerics) to start qualifying for Malconvoker. Invest the rest of the skill points as you'd like(you'll have 12 skill points left over), I would recommend maxing out Diplomacy if you want to be slightly charismatic, or Heal for fluff and being able to stabilize people. You also have all Knowledges as class skills, so maybe a point or two in those would be decent if you have any left over, but you're not really an Int-based character.

After this, your only requirement skill-wise is to burn two skill points for a rank in Bluff each level until level 4, although Malconvoker works much better if you keep adding ranks, and you may want to find a way to get it as a class skill. The only way I can think of that could work for a cleric would be to have the Trickery Domain, which would require you to worship the whole Elven Pantheon(which is doable even if you regard Corellon Larethion the most highly), but you have already established that does not quite fit your character. You could alternatively select Dragontouched and then Draconic Heritage for a Dragon that has Bluff as its associated skill, but that would not kick in until 9th, as you do want Augment Summoning as soon as possible(unless you dipped Conjurer Wizard 1 for the standard-action summons and the Augment Summoning bonus feat, but even then doesn't kick in until 6th).

Also, you may want to note your abilities and domains on your class sheet, as it does not note the additional spells Cloistered Cleric adds, Turn Undead, or the Lore ability(basically Bardic Knowledge) that the Cloistered Cleric gets.
I got one thing to say: D'oh! :mad:

[Pyromancer999]

I got one thing to say: D'oh! :mad:

Please also note the edited comment above about your spells per day and HP needing adjusting, as well as your armor proficiency.

[Bartmanhomer]

Please also note the edited comment above about your spells per day and HP needing adjusting, as well as your armor proficiency. Yes I just reading now! UGH! :furious:

[Pyromancer999]

Yes I just reading now! UGH! :furious:

It's not the biggest deal. You get a whole lot in exchange for a lesser hit die and weapon/armor proficiences(which hurts much less because of the ones you get from being a Lesser Drow). On the whole, it only makes a difference of a few HP and 1 point of BAB. If you really miss the Heavy armor Proficiency, after you take Augment Summoning, you can take Armor Proficiency(Medium) then Armor Proficiency(Heavy). Or delay spellcasting progression a level and take a level in any class with full armor proficiencies.

[Bartmanhomer]

It's not the biggest deal. You get a whole lot in exchange for a lesser hit die and weapon/armor proficiences(which hurts much less because of the ones you get from being a Lesser Drow). On the whole, it only makes a difference of a few HP and 1 point of BAB. If you really miss the Heavy armor Proficiency, after you take Augment Summoning, you can take Armor Proficiency(Medium) then Armor Proficiency(Heavy). Or delay spellcasting progression a level and take a level in any class with full armor proficiencies.

No. I'love take your word for it. Putting Charlotte into heavy armor is a little too much for her style. Well it back to drawing board again. :frown:

[Bartmanhomer]

Well I fix my sheet once again.

[Pyromancer999]

No. I'love take your word for it. Putting Charlotte into heavy armor is a little too much for her style. Well it back to drawing board again. :frown:

It's not the worst thing. Once you get higher level spells, you can take better advantage of spells that can be used to self-buff. For example, Sanctified Spells like Luminous Armor and Greater Luminous Armor. At the cost of 1d2 or 1d3 Strength damage respectively, you can gain the full benefits of breastplate(normal) or full plate armor(greater). With hours long durations, all you'll really need at higher levels is a Lesser Restoration spell to offset it, if you even notice the damage. Or take Shape Soulmeld(Strongheart Vest) to reduce all ability damage by 1, therefore making ability damage from other Sanctified spells you may want to use less. There are also other spells to raise your AC.

For clarification, Sanctified spells are holy spells available to all good-aligned characters that prepare spells.

[Pyromancer999]

Well I fix my sheet once again.

You're restricted to 4 ranks in a class skill or 1 rank in any cross-class skill at level 1.

If you want to go the summoning route, will have to eventually put skill points towards Bluff, Knowledge(Planes), and learning Celestial and Infernal. Shaving off the two skill points extra you have put into each skill so far, you can put 4 ranks in Knowledge(Planes), learn Celestial and Infernal, and invest two skill points to get 1 rank in Bluff.

Edit: Also not seeing the Knowledge Domain, as Cloistered Clerics get that for free. If you don't want the benefits of the extra domain, you can swap it out for the Knowledge Devotion feat, which adds to your attack and damage rolls against creatures you can identify with Knowledge skills you have ranks in. Like Undead or Outsiders, for Planes and Religion.

[Fizban]

why skill cook and heal? you heal with spell and cook with create food and create water :)
know religion and concentration need to be 4 ranks at level 1; my suggestion at least
Profession: Cook can be used like any other profession to make money and justify your presence and leadership in situations where an adventurer might otherwise be ignored. Worried about the king being poisoned? Lukcily you're a master chef so you you can get hired on for the big banquet and watch the preparations yourself.

If you think you can actually replace the Heal skill with just magic, you don't actually know how to use skill. Heal lets you crush the secondary saving throws for poison and disease with skill checks at no cost or limits other than a bit of time and a basic healer's kit. And that's not counting it's use as a prerequisite.

Knowledge: Religion on the other hand is not nearly so important. If you're not trying to reach any prestige classes or know every monster it's not really that important, I'd expect a beginner to get by fine without it.

Concentration is very important though: it's needed to make sure you can cast your spells even if someone hits you.

I'm a little disappointed at all the people pushing for Serious Builds. Unless the rest of the players are experienced optimizers there should be no need for Malconvoker or Thaumaturgist, I'd actually say that Malconvoker goes against the fluff for this character pretty strongly and Thaumaturgist is so easy to enter you don't need to plan for it at 1st level.

Bartmanhomer, can you give us a list of things you'd like to do? No need to worry about power, just whatever you want. I see mention that you had a cooking skill at one time, that you'd rather not wear heavy armor, and you wanted to make use of your tarot deck and runestones. I see you have a high charisma, does that mean you want her to be good at talking to people? Would you like her to know about monsters from studying, or focus on other skills and just find out what monsters do when they show up like the rest of the party?

Personally I would recommend not using Cloisered Cleric since the ligher armor/no shields and reduced hp make it so that one mistake can turn into disaster more quickly, especially at 1st level. If you specifically want that sort of weakness that's fine, it just means you'll need to be more careful, and the Renewal domain I suggested would help compensate quite a bit at those low levels.

[Bartmanhomer]

Well I just finished fixing my sheet.

[Pyromancer999]

I'm a little disappointed at all the people pushing for Serious Builds. Unless the rest of the players are experienced optimizers there should be no need for Malconvoker or Thaumaturgist, I'd actually say that Malconvoker goes against the fluff for this character pretty strongly and Thaumaturgist is so easy to enter you don't need to plan for it at 1st level.


Malconvoker was based off of some potential fluff for a build I mentioned was possible earlier in the thread. Granted, does go some against the general fluff of the character.



Bartmanhomer, can you give us a list of things you'd like to do? No need to worry about power, just whatever you want. I see mention that you had a cooking skill at one time, that you'd rather not wear heavy armor, and you wanted to make use of your tarot deck and runestones. I see you have a high charisma, does that mean you want her to be good at talking to people? Would you like her to know about monsters from studying, or focus on other skills and just find out what monsters do when they show up like the rest of the party?

BartmanHomer said that they wanted to do a summoning build. Hence the suggestions for a more caster-type cleric. Granted, Cleric X/Thaumaturge Y/Other stuff Z is a perfectly fine build. Heck, Cleric 6/Divine Agent 2/Thaumaturgist 5/Divine Agent 7 is perfectly fine. Could even do the same thing with Seeker of the Misty Isle. The build recommended was to the role that BartmanHomer said they would like to play.


Well I just finished fixing my sheet.

Looks fine to me, although you only have two domains listed instead of three(your original two + knowledge).

[Bartmanhomer]

Now I'm done fixing my sheet. :smile:

[Fizban]

Well, here's the sheet I was making for comparison: link (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=969013). I'll also note that a Chain Shirt and Hand Crossbow are way over starting wealth for just about anybody (200gp just for those), unless you roll high and get free stuff from the Forgotten Realms's regional bonuses. Pretty sure my list is still over, but I'm assuming the DM will let it slide since there's two redundant focii with both the tarot deck and the runestones when only one is needed. I'd also point out that speed is definitely an issue, people like to assume that just because they're in light armor they're getting full move speed, but with only 10 strength you can barely carry the chain shirt itself without hitting medium load.

[Bartmanhomer]

Well, here's the sheet I was making for comparison: link (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=969013). I'll also note that a Chain Shirt and Hand Crossbow are way over starting wealth for just about anybody (200gp just for those), unless you roll high and get free stuff from the Forgotten Realms's regional bonuses. Pretty sure my list is still over, but I'm assuming the DM will let it slide since there's two redundant focii with both the tarot deck and the runestones when only one is needed. I'd also point out that speed is definitely an issue, people like to assume that just because they're in light armor they're getting full move speed, but with only 10 strength you can barely carry the chain shirt itself without hitting medium load.

Very nice. This sheet comparsion is much more better. However some of the skills from the skill list is off the charts.

[Bartmanhomer]

Is there any other suggestions that you want my character to improve or no?

[Pugwampy]

All her life she worship Lolth. Until she betrayed her own race and Lolth by abandoning her faith.

How about a Drider cleric ? Thats what usually happens to traitors of Lolth .

[Inevitability]

How about a Drider cleric ? Thats what usually happens to traitors of Lolth .

Not really: it's what happens to drow who are powerful enough to become interesting to Lolth, then fail any of the cruel tests she subjects them to. Alternatively, they're rewards bestowed upon powerful priests.

[Eisfalken]

Here's my suggestion:

Don't follow a deity.

No, seriously. She had a crisis of faith, but that doesn't mean she suddenly had a handy priest of Corellon to ask about how to be a good elf. So maybe she went out in search of answers herself when she escaped drow society.

Maybe she asked about other deities and found none that were truly like her. But she knew there were answers. And she just kept looking.

And one day, maybe she realized there was a way of living and thinking that realized divine potential that didn't require the gods. Maybe it was another cleric who didn't follow a deity. Perhaps a good-aligned eladrin or titan taught her that you didn't have to worship gods to draw upon divine power. Or maybe she stumbled into the Upper Realms when it was night on one of them, and her mind was shattered and made whole at the same time, by the knowledge that the world was just poor shadow of a cosmos filled infinite possibilities.

Whatever it was, this little drow woman realized that she had something inside her that didn't need a god to hold up. She spent time away from the civilized world, meditating and pondering the deepest questions. And when it was over, she was a cloistered cleric of philosophy. She picks two domains that represent her philosophy(which she acquired by being apart from the world). If I may be bold, the domains should be picked thematically. For example, if her awakening was a brief trip to Arborea's Court of Stars, where the fairy-like eladrin cavort, pick Arborea (which counts as 2 domains). If you go for a "helping others" theme, pick two of Community, Family, Protection or Strength. If your ideal is "freedom & liberty", Liberation and Travel. If it's all about inner power and mind-over-matter, consider taking two of either Magic, Mind, Mysticism, or Spell.

Add the Knowledge domain to all that, because of course she acquired knowledge in her search for truth.

Now you've got the basics. After that, it's just a matter of what you want to do and how. If I may make a suggestion, while Malconvoker is very cool, if you prefer something a little... different, consider grabbing 2 levels of warlock, and becoming an eldritch disciple eventually (build is something like cloistered cleric 3 / warlock 2 / eldritch disciple 10 / thaumaturgist 5); this can be made into a very awesome build that eventually does a lot of good stuff.

[Fizban]

Very nice. This sheet comparsion is much more better. However some of the skills from the skill list is off the charts.
It's just my suggestions, you're free to use different skills if you want. The differences are that you took Know (Planes) and Bluff, while I took Profession (Cook) and Spellcraft. Actually now that I've checked, I see you've gone over your skill limit: you have 24 skill points, but adding on the Speak Languages you hit 28 (the sheet says 26 because you have Speak Language marked as a class skill, but it's not).

I still maintain that Renewal is far better domain than Protection, and even if the DM is letting you ignore 1st level gp limits and you don't mind moving at 20' from a medium load, I still say that you should have a Dagger and a Club. Even if you prefer the Hand Crossbow for style enough to ignore the much lower damage, skeletons and zombies are some of the most common picks for low level monsters and neither a Shortsword nor the Hand Crossbow will damage them. For a character with Knowledge (Religion), a cleric even, it makes very little sense to not have a blunt and slashing weapon to deal with them. They're also both throwing weapons you can use when you run out of crossbow bolts.

Now, once you've got a few levels you could stop carrying the "golf bag of weapons" just to deal with basic human skeletons and zombies thanks to Turn Undead, getting mobbed by rat skeletons at 1st level because you didn't want to carry a stick would just be embarassing :smallwink:

Here's my suggestion:

Don't follow a deity.

No, seriously. She had a crisis of faith, but that doesn't mean she suddenly had a handy priest of Corellon to ask about how to be a good elf. So maybe she went out in search of answers herself when she escaped drow society.
While I would agree with this the OP seems quite invested in the family he's drawn up for the character, including said priest of Corellon.

[Pyromancer999]

Another build suggestion: Take Seeker of the Misty Isle 9-10. It's the closest thing I've found to This class revolves around finding what was basically Elven Atlantis, is also mentioned as a model of an elven community, and Corellon has been searching for it ever since it's disappeared, to the point where he's empowered servants of his in order to help find it. The tone of the community seems in line with Charlotte's values, and such a model city, if found, could serve to inspire drow/other non-worshippers of Corellon to convert to his worship(not to mention being a good place to raise the kids). Additionally, it would be a great service to Corellon. It's an 8/10 casting prestige class, but does get Magic and Travel Domains, and other abilities suitable for traveling.

Another prestige class could be Evangelist, although it doesn't progress Divine spellcasting. Still, Cleric 10/Thaumaturge 5/Evangelist 5 gets 8th level spellcasting and some neat abilities. Is skill-heavy, but does fulfill the evangelization aspect of the character. Probably would have to dip Bard 2-3 for it, though.

[Bartmanhomer]

This game will be a low-level adventure. Probably through level 1 through 5. Since going to level 20 will probably takes a very long time to finish. I think this low level will be good enough for my second game.

[Bartmanhomer]

My DM is playing houserules. I get three feats instead of one feat. Here's my updated sheet: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=965640

[Bartmanhomer]

Anyway so far we started the game and we're about to fight some evil drow. I already posted my updated character sheet on my previous post.