Questions about Bushi Zweihander Sentinel (wow that's a mouthful)

[curious-puzzle]

So finally actually looking at Pathfinder...I had held out since I own most of 3.5, didn't need the temptation of an entirely new line of books, but that ship has sailed :P. Looking to make the above mishmash of archetypes and martial templates, focusing on Scarlet Throne and Mithral Current.

1) Is there a better combo of disciplines to pull off the whole Iaijitsu single-stroke warrior cliche? I really like the flavor of both, but I'm not sure if they overlap too much.

2)For starting maneuvers at level one, I was thinking Blade of Breaking, Flowing creek, Tidal blade, Red Zephyr strike, and ____? As for stances, was leaning towards Ready the Blade.

If I ever play this character, I was going to stay in this class, and go for Mithral Current style and Mixed Combat for feats - any other cool stuff to check out?

Any opinions/rants/input is appreciated! :smallbiggrin:

[Cwymbran-San]

After Combat Expertise you might want to add the Swordplay Style feat. Adds to your AC and cancels out the penalty from Combat Expertise for your first attack - which should be the last, considering your Iaijutsu-technique :-)
Usable with maneuvers, so will not interfere with your martial options.

Edit: typo

[Tuvarkz]

For the single-stroke warrior, the strongest single-attack damage boost is Black Seraph's Wrath from Black Seraph, but that's a largely supernatural discipline and wouldn't entirely fit (and it comes at level 11).
I'd suggest going for either Piranha Strike or Power Attack, plus Martial Charge so you get a big mobility boost. Discipline Focus is a really great feat choice as it grants +2 to damage and +2 to the DC of your chosen discipline's maneuvers. I'd argue against Swordplay style given the feat tax and that you are already getting a shield bonus to AC from Aegis.
However, is there any particular reason why to go with Warder? The class honestly gets very little to its role as a tank from the template, and the Warlord is far better suited for damage dealing purposes (and while the Zweihander can keep up in damage through other means, those aren't going for single-striking).
Mithral Current style isn't really good given that 1) you'll still need to spend at least one trait to get Perform(Dance) to Int (or Dex), 2) as a warder, you should really be using your swift/immediate actions for counters and boosting your attacks when available.

[Extra Anchovies]

Power Attack and Furious Focus are a nice pair of feats to have on any THF initiator.

[curious-puzzle]

Power Attack and Furious Focus are a nice pair of feats to have on any THF initiator.


I'd suggest going for either Piranha Strike or Power Attack, plus Martial Charge so you get a big mobility boost. Discipline Focus is a really great feat choice as it grants +2 to damage and +2 to the DC of your chosen discipline's maneuvers.

Power attack for sure, and both furious focus and Martial charge look good as well (as does discipline focus). I agree on swordplay style needing too many feats...and I hadn't noticed the swift action requirement for Mithral current style, so that's gone.

As for Warder, I just liked the idea of combining the defensive focus with Armiger's mark, and then being quite mobile using maneuvers to slide around while slicing people and imposing penalties and taking attacks of opportunity.

[Ecliptic]

I hadn't noticed the swift action requirement for Mithral current style, so that's gone.


What swift action requirement?

?.?

[curious-puzzle]

Swift action to feint with Mithral current style, I had misread it, and my swift actions are more going towards boosts and counters (as immediate actions).

[Ecliptic]

Ah the style feat... was reading it as the discipline. :)

Also, if you are going bushi, you don't need to take mixed combat - you get it for free (as a bonus feat) on level 6.

Martial Charge; (Power Attack, Furious Focus) or Piranha strike; Weapon Finesse, Deadly Agility (these two together make for a great dex-based character); Discipline Focus; Discipline Expertise; Extra Readied Maneuver; Advanced Study are all viable and decent feats to take, plus any of the original "good" melee type feats, like combat reflexes, etc.

[Tuvarkz]

Ah the style feat... was reading it as the discipline. :)

Also, if you are going bushi, you don't need to take mixed combat - you get it for free (as a bonus feat) on level 6.

Martial Charge; (Power Attack, Furious Focus) or Piranha strike; Weapon Finesse, Deadly Agility (these two together make for a great dex-based character); Discipline Focus; Discipline Expertise; Extra Readied Maneuver; Advanced Study are all viable and decent feats to take, plus any of the original "good" melee type feats, like combat reflexes, etc.

Discipline Expertise is a bad choice, as not only you won't be needing skill checks for every single discipline, the bonus granted by the feat is a typed competence bonus, and almost every single magic item that nets a skill bonus does it as a competence bonus (the most notable exception being a few enhancement bonus boosters to perception) which means they do not stack. Focused Study is what makes Skill Focus a viable choice because it grants you the feat three times at the cost of one.
I will agree, Advanced Study should be an instant pick at level 7 specifically, as level 4 maneuvers are generally a big power leap from lower level ones.

[Ecliptic]

Discipline Expertise is a bad choice, as not only you won't be needing skill checks for every single discipline, the bonus granted by the feat is a typed competence bonus, and almost every single magic item that nets a skill bonus does it as a competence bonus (the most notable exception being a few enhancement bonus boosters to perception) which means they do not stack. Focused Study is what makes Skill Focus a viable choice because it grants you the feat three times at the cost of one.
I will agree, Advanced Study should be an instant pick at level 7 specifically, as level 4 maneuvers are generally a big power leap from lower level ones.

True, but if you don't have a need for something else and aren't planning on buying items with competence bonuses, having a +2 to 5 or 6 different skills can be pretty decent (assuming they are skills that your character uses often, like perception, sense motive, bluff, acrobatics, etc.) It's not a vital pick, but depending on what gear you are going for and the makeup of your group, it can be a decent choice I think?

[Tuvarkz]

True, but if you don't have a need for something else and aren't planning on buying items with competence bonuses, having a +2 to 5 or 6 different skills can be pretty decent (assuming they are skills that your character uses often, like perception, sense motive, bluff, acrobatics, etc.) It's not a vital pick, but depending on what gear you are going for and the makeup of your group, it can be a decent choice I think?

Except that due to how skill bonuses work in pathfinder, in most cases it's all-or-nearly-nothing in terms of investment, particularly due to how fast DCs can scale (Acrobatics being against the almost-uncatchable CMD and SM/Bluff/Perception and such generally being opposed rolls, and will generally have a party member with class-based boosts to said skills or having the skill keyed to an ability score they will raise siginifatively). To boot, given that otherwise it's so ideal for the Warder to dump Charisma, it generally means that only one Cha-based skill will see use (given Clever Wordplay/Bruising Intellect. Ordained Defender can use more due to inquisitions, but this is not the case). The warder has 5 disciplines in class, of which he's likely to end up having competence bonuses for one-two of from items, and likely one whose skill he's dumping. This leaves two-three skills that are effectively getting a +2 competence bonus to their checks, for a total of a +6 bonus spread around best-case-scenario (and that's assuming he won't be getting temporary competence bonuses from somewhere else in the group). It's fact that a total sum in pathfinder spread across multiples is less than the same sum into a single skill. Thus, taking skill focus in a skill that the Warder is going to be actively using (Either Perform Dance or Sense Motive) is going to be the better choice, and skill focus isn't a particularly great choice either.
EDIT: For precision, Victorious Recovery, Extra Readied Maneuver, Powerful Marks, Seize the Opportunity+Vital Strike chain, even Lightning Recovery are far better choices than Discipline Expertise can be.

[curious-puzzle]

Thanks for all the info!