Yeerks VS Goa'uld: who wins the battle for Earth?

[Flickerdart]

Earth is invaded by a race of secretive parasite aliens, which has covertly infiltrated society and threatens to turn humanity into little more than slaves. These aliens have forged a mighty interstellar empire, and our pale blue dot is simply the next planet in line for conquest. But what makes us especially unlucky is that this happens twice.

First come the Yeerks, a slug-like alien that burrows into a host's ear and squishes around the wrinkles in their brain. The yeerk controls its host completely, but requires periodic nourishment from a nutrient pool. at which time it must leave the host. Yeerks get around this through placing their host in restraints while they eat, though they have a small cohort of willing hosts. They can also choose to inhabit a different host afterwards. The main advantage of the Yeerks lies in their dominion of many alien races - among their hosts they count all kinds of born-and-bred fighting machines.

But just after the Yeerks hide their ships in the vastness of space and begin their infiltration, the Goa'uld System Lords fleet arrives. The Goa'uld are another race of parasites - large snake-like aliens that burrow into a victim and dominate it mentally, gaining their memories and controlling their bodies. Goa'uld have only human hosts, but such a host is imbued with great strength and longevity. Goa'uld also have their loyal Jaffa soldiers armed with (basically) space laser bazookas.

For the sake of fairness, let's get rid of these antagonists' various enemies - no Asgardians, Stargate Command, Animorphs, Andalites, or various infighting factions exist. Let's also avoid any named characters at all (otherwise Anubis steamrolls everybody).

The important part is that the humans must not suspect a thing. For mysterious alien reasons, even though either star empire could crush Earth, they believe that infiltrating undercover is a better move. Space battles can only happen where Earthlings cannot detect them.

Who can wipe out the other side's forces and take over Earth?

[Binks]

The Goa'uld being secretive? I really can't see it. Half their shtick is being overly dramatic and believing their own god facade. Of course, if we assume it's Baal or an equally pragmatic Goa'uld leading the invasion, alright then. The Yeerks have some obvious advantages in hiding their presence on Earth (hence why Animorphs focuses on a secret war plotline, while Stargate had only a handful of 'secretly a Goa'uld' episodes) but if we assume no one knows what to look for Goa'uld infiltration becomes a lot easier (it was still possible even in the later episodes, but it took a lot of planning on the Goa'uld's part).

I'm not actually familiar with the Yeerk's space fleets, but any space battles need to be far from Earth anyway, so it shouldn't be a major factor. The big unanswered question here is what happens if a Yeerk possessed human gets Goa'ulded? Two parasites, one body, who wins? Both will be aiming for the world leaders, so it'll be inevitable that they will cross. The Goa'uld have the combat advantage on Earth with all of their troops being able to pass as Human and being stronger than average, but they can't be too overt lest they break the masquerade. Both possess people in much the same manner (get too close and be unprepared, get controlled) so it really comes down to what happens when a Yeerk possessed host has a Goa'uld try to take over.

Of course, unless the Yeerks have a far more powerful fleet of ships than I'd imagine they do, the Goa'uld just come in and curbstomp Earth if they lose anyway, taking out the cities with orbital bombardment at their leisure. While I'm sure they would like Earth, they don't need it, and most Goa'uld seemed almost offended by how many humans were living here in canon.

So personally I'd award the win to whichever parasite retains control when both are in the same body, with the caveat that, whoever wins, humanity definitely loses this one.

[Traab]

You know, the goauld parasites have brains of their own. Just an idea. A yeerk could possibly take over a symbiote, but the reverse is not true. If they were both in the same body, I think the yeerk would be better served by attaching itself to the goauld body and taking THAT over. He can drain said snake creature of all the knowledge it possesses, walk it on over to the nearest nutrient pool and share the wealth amongst its kind. Then infiltrate the goauld race itself.

[Forum Explorer]

The Goa'uld being secretive? I really can't see it. Half their shtick is being overly dramatic and believing their own god facade. Of course, if we assume it's Baal or an equally pragmatic Goa'uld leading the invasion, alright then. The Yeerks have some obvious advantages in hiding their presence on Earth (hence why Animorphs focuses on a secret war plotline, while Stargate had only a handful of 'secretly a Goa'uld' episodes) but if we assume no one knows what to look for Goa'uld infiltration becomes a lot easier (it was still possible even in the later episodes, but it took a lot of planning on the Goa'uld's part).

I'm not actually familiar with the Yeerk's space fleets, but any space battles need to be far from Earth anyway, so it shouldn't be a major factor. The big unanswered question here is what happens if a Yeerk possessed human gets Goa'ulded? Two parasites, one body, who wins? Both will be aiming for the world leaders, so it'll be inevitable that they will cross. The Goa'uld have the combat advantage on Earth with all of their troops being able to pass as Human and being stronger than average, but they can't be too overt lest they break the masquerade. Both possess people in much the same manner (get too close and be unprepared, get controlled) so it really comes down to what happens when a Yeerk possessed host has a Goa'uld try to take over.

Of course, unless the Yeerks have a far more powerful fleet of ships than I'd imagine they do, the Goa'uld just come in and curbstomp Earth if they lose anyway, taking out the cities with orbital bombardment at their leisure. While I'm sure they would like Earth, they don't need it, and most Goa'uld seemed almost offended by how many humans were living here in canon.

So personally I'd award the win to whichever parasite retains control when both are in the same body, with the caveat that, whoever wins, humanity definitely loses this one.

Yeerk tech is pretty advanced, with such powerful guns that even their hand pistols can blow through armored walls with ease or stun someone harmlessly with an easy dial setting. They have a lot of ships, and a bunch of gimmicky tricky stuff too. I don't know how it compares to Goa'uld stuff, other then I remember those staff guns getting outperformed by assault rifles.

I think the biggest weakness of Yeerk tech is that's it's really universal and easy. Teenagers really had almost no problem in using whatever Yeerk tech they got their hands on, which actually makes sense, because it needs to be able to be used by various races with different appendages and the like. (In fact, I think one of the reasons they were afraid of doing a full out invasion is that they were worried that humans would be able to reverse-engineer their tech and then outperform them with it due to humans actually being really good inventors in universe, and our sheer numbers)

I'm not familiar with both universes though, so I couldn't speak of a winner.

[Flickerdart]

You know, the goauld parasites have brains of their own. Just an idea. A yeerk could possibly take over a symbiote, but the reverse is not true. If they were both in the same body, I think the yeerk would be better served by attaching itself to the goauld body and taking THAT over. He can drain said snake creature of all the knowledge it possesses, walk it on over to the nearest nutrient pool and share the wealth amongst its kind. Then infiltrate the goauld race itself.

It's a good thought, but it may be difficult for a yeerk to get access to a goa'uld directly. They would have to capture a host and surgically gain access to the parasite.

[Foeofthelance]

Yeerk tech is pretty advanced, with such powerful guns that even their hand pistols can blow through armored walls with ease or stun someone harmlessly with an easy dial setting. They have a lot of ships, and a bunch of gimmicky tricky stuff too. I don't know how it compares to Goa'uld stuff, other then I remember those staff guns getting outperformed by assault rifles.

The staff weapons didn't really start getting out performed by the assault rifles until midway through the series. Early on, a hit from a staff weapon was pretty much a guaranteed kill, while it took a third to half a magazine to take down an armored Jaffa. Over time the rifles got better once the SGC got a hold of Jaffa armor and started designing against it, though actual anti-staff armor didn't really become a thing until around season seven or eight. They were fairly clumsy weapons, designed as Jack put it, to be "Weapons of terror", but the zat guns pretty much just needed to touch the target to fry their nervous system, and the various combat craft also tended to be much more effective tools of war.

The question of a Yeerk possessed Goa'uld is interesting, but the question is where are they really going to run into one? The Jaffa only carry larva, and a full on symbiote is unlikely to end up on the front lines since that's what Jaffa are for. It also raises the question of what would happen to a Yeerk host that gets shot by a zat gun. Assuming the Jaffa don't just go straight to "kill", does getting tasered interfere with the control the yeerk has over the host? Would getting forced into a sarcophagus purge the yeerk from an infested human?

First impression is that this one goes to the Goa'uld. They've got the larger fleet, so it would be easier for them to quarantine Earth from further yeerk invasion, they have more advanced healing technology, and once they figure out the yeerk pool exists it would prove an easy Achille's heel for them to exploit. Outside of their personal quirks, the Goa'uld don't really have any weaknesses that the yeerks might exploit in turn.

[khadgar567]

we need more info is animorphs failed and visser 3 give his own man ability to shapeshift for limited duration
if yes then we have more problems since yeerk have one solid weakness( pool dependency( and they need central nutrient beam dispenser)) my vote goes on gould since it all need is one possession to get full info about yeerk tech and you can body surf permanently they have more chance

[zimmerwald1915]

He can drain said snake creature of all the knowledge it possesses, walk it on over to the nearest nutrient pool and share the wealth amongst its kind.
It's not a given that the Yeerks can do this. It's been almost a decade since I read it (I think it was in The Hork-Bajir Chronicles?), but I dimly recall the Yeerks coming across a species they couldn't infest due to the unusual structure of its nervous system. The Yeerks ended up wiping them out, but that's beside the point. The Goa'uld might be similarly immune, whether due to the naquadah in their system or some other factor. That said, successfully infesting a symbiote would be a huge coup for the Yeerks. The Goa'uld possess genetic memory, with each generation carrying all the knowledge of the generations before it. Talk about one hell of a leak.

Ultimately, though, I think Foeofthelance has the right of it. If the Goa'uld can achieve space superiority - they almost certainly can, since at its height their empire controlled almost the whole Milky Way while the Yeerks' decidedly did not, so the Goa'uld have more resources to bring to bear - and they learn about kandronas, they can start tracking down and destroying the Yeerk pools on-planet. If they manage to get all of them (whether they do probably depends on how good Goa'uld sensors are), the Yeerks are SoL.

[khadgar567]

It's not a given that the Yeerks can do this. It's been almost a decade since I read it (I think it was in The Hork-Bajir Chronicles?), but I dimly recall the Yeerks coming across a species they couldn't infest due to the unusual structure of its nervous system. The Yeerks ended up wiping them out, but that's beside the point. The Goa'uld might be similarly immune, whether due to the naquadah in their system or some other factor. That said, successfully infesting a symbiote would be a huge coup for the Yeerks. The Goa'uld possess genetic memory, with each generation carrying all the knowledge of the generations before it. Talk about one hell of a leak.

Ultimately, though, I think Foeofthelance has the right of it. If the Goa'uld can achieve space superiority - they almost certainly can, since at its height their empire controlled almost the whole Milky Way while the Yeerks' decidedly did not, so the Goa'uld have more resources to bring to bear - and they learn about kandronas, they can start tracking down and destroying the Yeerk pools on-planet. If they manage to get all of them (whether they do probably depends on how good Goa'uld sensors are), the Yeerks are SoL.
on the main story they crippled yeerks with just one strike to main beam food dispenser and this done by high school kids gould has more resources and man power then animorph team with potion to ascend get info descend method done by one of them and consider naquadah can be poisonous to non gould organism gould has more chances to win ow before forgetting they can destroy the planet if they want

[Flickerdart]

It's not a given that the Yeerks can do this. It's been almost a decade since I read it (I think it was in The Hork-Bajir Chronicles?), but I dimly recall the Yeerks coming across a species they couldn't infest due to the unusual structure of its nervous system. The Yeerks ended up wiping them out, but that's beside the point. The Goa'uld might be similarly immune, whether due to the naquadah in their system or some other factor. That said, successfully infesting a symbiote would be a huge coup for the Yeerks. The Goa'uld possess genetic memory, with each generation carrying all the knowledge of the generations before it. Talk about one hell of a leak.

Ultimately, though, I think Foeofthelance has the right of it. If the Goa'uld can achieve space superiority - they almost certainly can, since at its height their empire controlled almost the whole Milky Way while the Yeerks' decidedly did not, so the Goa'uld have more resources to bring to bear - and they learn about kandronas, they can start tracking down and destroying the Yeerk pools on-planet. If they manage to get all of them (whether they do probably depends on how good Goa'uld sensors are), the Yeerks are SoL.
If both of these things occur, it sounds like an interesting scenario - Yeerks establish a foothold within the Goa'uld hierarchy, but the bulk of their force is destroyed. In effect, they become the scrappy freedom fighters they've always hated!

Do Yeerk infiltrators have the power to take down the Goa'uld from within, with only a few agents using portable pools?

[khadgar567]

If both of these things occur, it sounds like an interesting scenario - Yeerks establish a foothold within the Goa'uld hierarchy, but the bulk of their force is destroyed. In effect, they become the scrappy freedom fighters they've always hated!

Do Yeerk infiltrators have the power to take down the Goa'uld from within, with only a few agents using portable pools?
it takes to much hassle to use portable pools they said in books ( the one after the food relay attack)

[GloatingSwine]

Yeerk tech is pretty advanced, with such powerful guns that even their hand pistols can blow through armored walls with ease or stun someone harmlessly with an easy dial setting. They have a lot of ships, and a bunch of gimmicky tricky stuff too. I don't know how it compares to Goa'uld stuff, other then I remember those staff guns getting outperformed by assault rifles.


Staff weapons are intentionally a bit rubbish to minimise the effect of rebellion among the ranks (about which the Goa'uld are regularly shown to be paranoid, and not without reason).


I suspect this would go to the Goa'uld though, because it's clear that without external protection they can just drive up and stomp earth militarily with a single Ha'tak, whereas the Yeerks seemingly are extremely hesitant to engage openly.

[Hamste]

Didn't Yeerks have the quantum virus thing or was that one of those technologies they didn't manage to capture?

[JeenLeen]

Would population be a relevant factor?

There are a lot of Yeerks. Not enough to infest everyone, but a lot. If I recall correctly, breeding is rather quick (even if it destroys the parents: wasn't it like two yeerks merge together, then split into 3+ young?)

I don't recall if Star Gate went into population counts of Goa'uld, but I get the impression that there aren't as many and that they can't breed as quickly. Anyone recall details?

If combat has to be done primarily through Human Controllers (yeerk or goa'uld), then this could be relevant.

[Kantaki]

Would population be a relevant factor?

There are a lot of Yeerks. Not enough to infest everyone, but a lot. If I recall correctly, breeding is rather quick (even if it destroys the parents: wasn't it like two yeerks merge together, then split into 3+ young?)

I don't recall if Star Gate went into population counts of Goa'uld, but I get the impression that there aren't as many and that they can't breed as quickly. Anyone recall details?

If combat has to be done primarily through Human Controllers (yeerk or goa'uld), then this could be relevant.

Let me put it that way: They have massive slave-armies*. Every single of their soldiers** has one of their larvas in their belly, replacing the immune system.
So the actual numbers of goa’uld is pretty high.
But not everyone (who survives the time as a immune system) gets a host because bodysnatching serpents with a god complex don't like to share. (At least that's my understanding)
However, I'm pretty sure if they need some extra infiltrator or something they have a few spare symbiotes floating around. Not that the number of goa’uld really matters.
They usually don't fight. That's what the Jaffa andd the... „worshippers” (voluntary or otherwise) are for.

*the powerful ones at least. The others... usually work for them.
**The real soldiers, the Jaffa, not the regular human slaves.

[Binks]

A yeerk could possibly take over a symbiote, but the reverse is not true.
Now that's an interesting idea. Might not be possible, depending on how the symbiote's brain works and based on size, but would certainly turn the entire thing on its head.


Would population be a relevant factor?
Early Stargate (before humanity started killing Goa'uld) there were so many symbiotes that the System Lords ate them (cannibalism yay?) as a delicacy. One Goa'uld Queen can birth a lot of symbiotes very quickly. Problem is, symbiotes take a long time to mature. New ones can take people over for short periods, but their control is far less effective than full grown ones, and full growth takes 20+ years in a Jaffa's pouch.

So if the Yeerks are able to target the Goa'uld queens they could cause a problem for them, but it would be quite delayed, and extremely hard to pull off. The Stargate team, with all the knowledge they could want of the Goa'uld and several advantages over them, encountered, what, 2 queens in the entire run of the series? The Goa'uld guard them extremely well.

[zimmerwald1915]

If both of these things occur, it sounds like an interesting scenario - Yeerks establish a foothold within the Goa'uld hierarchy, but the bulk of their force is destroyed. In effect, they become the scrappy freedom fighters they've always hated!
Yeerks becoming Tok'ra. I approve.


Staff weapons are intentionally a bit rubbish to minimise the effect of rebellion among the ranks (about which the Goa'uld are regularly shown to be paranoid, and not without reason).
Pretty much. The Goa'uld have better small arms than staff weapons (see: the Kull warriors' gauntlets), but they don't use them because their army is really a regime-protection force, not a power-projection force.


Didn't Yeerks have the quantum virus thing or was that one of those technologies they didn't manage to capture?
If we're bringing extinction-weapons into this, then Dakara is available. I don't think anybody wants that.