Odd monsters: Quanlos

[thethird]

Okay gents, lads and lasses.

I bring you a challenge, Optimize a Quanlos, monster manual IV page 122.

You might have not ever heard of it, but a Quanlos is a 6HD (Damnit just out of range of alter self) magical beast (polymorph works without workarounds) that generates a poison. But not any poison.

Quanlos poison (costs 50 gp a pop) is a supernatural (no SR) dominate monster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominateMonster.htm) that targets fort (not will). What can be done with that?

[Mr Adventurer]

Neither Alter Self nor Polymorph grant (Su) abilities IIRC so I'm not sure why you mention them?

[JeminiZero]

You can use Assume Supernatural Ability feat [Savage Species] to get one supernatural ability of a polymorph form.

[Flickerdart]

If the poison has a gp cost, why bother with the Quanlos? Just produce it yourself using Craft: Poisonmaking.

[Zaq]

If the poison has a gp cost, why bother with the Quanlos? Just produce it yourself using Craft: Poisonmaking.

Hmm. If the poison is delivered by a means other than though a quanlos's sting, who's the "caster" who gets to boss around the dominated target? I mean, the easy answer (and the one that is the most beneficial to the enterprising PC trying to use a new trick) is that the character who inflicted the poison on the target, but I don't think that saying that would really be a lock.

The fact that the book itself says that the poison is useful even after being harvested (which, I would imagine, usually involves killing the quanlos, particularly for folks who have the mindset the book seems to assume) indicates that it isn't necessarily unique to the quanlos itself, so I'm not saying that you can't get some use out of a dominating poison. (And hell, if you craft it yourself with Craft: Poisonmaking, then you might be said to be the creator, which would point at you being the caster, though again, there's no hard rules text supporting that.) I'm just saying that I wouldn't be completely bewildered by a GM saying that the target might end up dominated but not necessarily dominated by you. And of course, the fact that the thralls are "freed immediately upon the death of the controlling quanlos" adds another layer of confusion.

It does seem like this isn't really treated much like a poison at all—there's no initial and secondary effects, for instance. It's debatable whether an immunity to poison would render you immune to quanlos venom. I think it's pretty clear that anything that makes you resistant or immune to Dominate Monster (immunity to mind-affecting, Protection From Evil or a similar anti-compulsion effect, etc.) would make you similarly resistant or immune to this, but I'm not sure if it also has the poison "keyword," so to speak. The description does refer to it as "this poison," but it's kind of in stark contrast to Devouring Larvae, where the text explicitly says "treat this infestation as a poison [with XYZ mechanical effects]," you know? Like, if it is treated as a poison, does that also mean that the target has to make a secondary save after 10 rounds? It doesn't say that that would be the case, but it also doesn't say that it wouldn't follow the normal rules for poison.

Weird find. I feel like the rules are a tiny bit patchy for this to become a reliable trick in practical play (though if your GM is generous in their interpretation, sweet deal), but still, pretty cool.

[Inevitability]

Ah, MM4, will your player-bolstering habits ever end?

That said, a typical Distant Shot archer can fire arrows with the poison on it a few thousand miles. That seems like it'd be a good start.

Alternatively, summon a hound archon with SMV, apply the poison to one of its claws, have it teleport to your target and attempt to hit it. If it succeeds, you got yourself a new dominated thrall, and the archon can immediately tell you. If it fails, you lost a 5th-level spell slot (ignorable) without any threat to your own well-being.

The only problem would be the usage of a LG creature to spread poison, but well, the rules for poison and alignment are contradictory anyway.

[Fizban]

The Qualnos does not have any poison ability. The so-called "qualnos venom" that can be extracted is given no stats aside from a 50gp sale value, to the right person. The only logical conclusion is that "qualnos venom" is a raw material that can be used in the crafting of other items, effectively a trade good but with no stats it is clearly useless.

[Janthkin]

Alternatively, summon a hound archon with SMV, apply the poison to one of its claws, have it teleport to your target and attempt to hit it. Tangential nitpick:

A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities.
I'm not sure what a Quanlos is intended to DO with Dominate Monster; it's Int 1. Given the flavor text, I guess it's modeled after one or another terrifying wasp (https://www.wired.com/2015/08/wasp-mind-controls-spiders-building-cozy-webs/).

Any way to optimize around it's Devouring Larvae? That has the advantage of being (Ex) rather than (Su), and if you can prevent victims from getting a Remove Disease or a middling Heal check, it will kill anything that can die from Poison eventually.

[Inevitability]

Tangential nitpick:

I'm not sure what a Quanlos is intended to DO with Dominate Monster; it's Int 1. Given the flavor text, I guess it's modeled after one or another terrifying wasp (https://www.wired.com/2015/08/wasp-mind-controls-spiders-building-cozy-webs/).

Any way to optimize around it's Devouring Larvae? That has the advantage of being (Ex) rather than (Su), and if you can prevent victims from getting a Remove Disease or a middling Heal check, it will kill anything that can die from Poison eventually.

Curse you, never-used and narrow summoning rules!

In that case, use Conjure Lantern Archon and try to convince your DM it can totally deliver poisons.