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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Barbarian Archetype - Ancestral Warrior



BulletMagnet
2016-09-27, 04:12 PM
So I wanted to create a barbarian path/archetype that had a cool shaman-light feel to it. I wanted it to feel magical and have variety, but not have to deal with spells. I used the superiority dice construct as a way of limiting the power. I am open to suggestions on balancing, naming, etc... I hope you like the idea!

Ancestral Warrior
The Ancestral Warrior is imbued with the spirits of his ancestors and the primordial powers of Air, Earth, Fire and Water.

Spirit Weapon
Upon gaining this feature at level 3, you are able to call upon the supernatural to create weapons to use in battle and wield your primordial power.
As a bonus action, or as part of entering a rage, you can create a spirit weapon, or pair of spirit weapons with the light property, in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this weapon takes each time you create it and you are proficient with it while you wield it. Spirit weapons count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. However, they are not otherwise magical, and it can be targeted normally by spells like magic weapon and elemental weapon. Spirit weapons disappear if they are more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature again, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or you die. If a spirit weapon is used as a projectile, or thrown, you may choose to have it return to you as part of the same attack, or return it later as a free action.

You may transform the magic essence of a weapon into the spiritual plane and make it your spirit weapon. Follow the same rules for warlocks transforming a magic weapon into their pact weapon. Once you have performed this type of your spirit weapons no longer can be targeted by spells like magic weapon or elemental weapon.

Ethereal Superiority
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn maneuvers that are fueled by your spiritual fortitude and the spirits of your ancestors, which are represented as Spirit dice.


Spiritual Callings​- You learn three callings of your choice, which are detailed under callings below. Many callings enhance an attack, or your rage, in some way. Callings only work through your spirit weapon and you can use only one calling per attack. Only one rage-enhancing calling may be active at a time. When you invoke a rage-enhancing calling and you have one active, the active callings ends.
You learn two additional callings of your choice at 6th, 10th and 14th level. Each time you learn a new calling, you can also replace one calling you know with a different one.



Spirit Dice​ - You have four spirit dice, which are d8s. A spirit die is expended when you
use it. You regain all of your expended spirit dice when you finish a short or long rest. Any
feats that effect superiority dice, impact spirit dice as well. You gain another spirit die at 10th
level and one more at 14th level.



Saving Throws​ - Some of your callings require your target to make a saving throw to resist the calling’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:

Spiritual Calling Save DC​ = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier


Supernatural Rage
The knowledge and battle experience of your ancestors fuels your rage to new levels. Beginning at 6th level, you can’t be charmed or frightened while raging. If you are charmed or freightened when you enter your rage, the effect is suspended for the duration of the rage.

Improved Ethereal Superiority
At 10th level, you may invoke two rage-enhancing callings during a single rage. When you invoke a third rage-enhancing calling, you must decide which of the previous callings ends. At 14th level, your spirit dice become a d12.

Ancestral Attunement
Upon reaching 14th level, whenever you enter a rage with no spirit dice, you regain 1 spirit die.


Ancestral Vision (rage enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke supernatural vision. You can see normally in darkness, both normal and magical, out to 120 ft. At level 11 barbarian, this becomes true sight to 120 ft. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Haunted Spirits - When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you may expend one spirit die to release the spirits in your spirit weapon and frighten the target. You add the results of your spirit die to the damage roll and the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is frightened until the end of your next turn.

Warrior Spirit - when a creature misses you with an attack, you can use your reaction and expend one spirit die to make a weapon attack against the creature using your spirit weapon. Your spirit weapon must be able to reach the creature (i.e., if you are hit with a ranged attack, the target must be within range of your spirit weapon). If you hit, you add your spirit die to the attack’s damage roll.

Essence of the Ancestors (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the essence of your ancestors. You and all allies within 5 ft of you gain resistance to necrotic damage and you may choose to have your spirit weapon do necrotic damage in addition to, or in place of, any other types of damage it deals. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Wind Walking - When you hit a creature with a ranged attack using a thrown weapon, you can expend one spirit die to teleport adjacent to the target as part of the attack. You add the spirit die to the attack’s damage roll. You may continue the rest of your turn as normal, performing your remaining attacks or actions from your new location.

Speed of Air (rage enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the speed of air. You are able to use dash as a bonus action. Upon reaching 14th level, you may choose instead to get a fly speed equal to your walking speed. This calling ends when your rage ends, or you invoke another rage-enhancing calling. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Whirlwind - While raging, or using your reckless attack feature during your turn, you may use a bonus action and expend one spirit die to make one additional melee attack using your spirit weapon. You add the spirit die to damage if your attack hits.

Wind Breaker - when you are damaged by a ranged attack, you can use your reaction and one spirit die to reduce the damage by the number you roll on the spirit die + your constitution modifier.

Essence of the Air (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the essence of air. You and all allies within 5ft of you gain resistance to lightning damage and you may choose to have your spirit weapon do lightning damage in addition to, or in place of, any other types of damage it deals. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

One with Water (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the aspect of water. You gain a swim speed of 60 ft and can breathe underwater. You ignore difficult terrain caused by water. This calling ends when your rage ends, or you invoke another rage-enhancing calling. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Frosty Aura(rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the essence of ice. You emanate a 15 ft aura of cold, causing all of the area around you to be treated as difficult, icy terrain to all hostile creatures. You may also choose to walk on water instead of swimming, causing the top of the water to turn to ice and allowing your allies to walk on it with you. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging. At the end of the effect, you fall into the water if you are above it.

Rejuvenation of Water- When you hit a creature, you may expend one spirit die to attempt siphoning the life of your target. You add the results of the spirit die to the damage roll and your target must make a CON saving throw. On a failed save, you gain half of the damage dealt in temporary hit points. On a successful save, you deal half damage (rounded down) and gain no temporary hit points.

Essence of the Water (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the essence of air. You and all allies within 5 ft of you gain resistance to cold damage and you may choose to have your spirit weapon do cold damage in addition to, or in place of, any other types of damage it deals. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Burning Soul - When you hit a creature with your spirit weapon, you may expend a spirit die to release the spirit of the flame and force them to move. You add the results of the spirit die to the damage roll and the target must make a WIS save or believe they are set ablaze. On a failed save, the target must immediate use its reaction, if available, to move at least 30 ft away from their current position. Otherwise, the target has disadvantage on all attacks until the end of your next turn.

Flaming Burst - When you hit a creature, you may expend a spirit die to release a flaming burst around them. You add the spirit die to the damage roll of the attack. Each hostile creature around the target, must make a DEX saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes Fire damage equal to the spirit die + your con modifier.

Conflagration (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to bring the wrath of fire amongst your foes. You gain 1 bonus damage to all of your attacks equal to the number of your enemies within 5 ft of your target. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Essence of the Fire (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the essence of air. You and all allies gain resistance to fire damage and you may choose to have your spirit weapon do fire damage in addition to, or in place of, any other types of damage it deals. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Strength of Earth (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the strength of earth. Any spiritual weapon you wield gains the thrown property while you are raging. If it already has the thrown property, double the it's range. You may add the spirit die to one damage roll while under the effect of this calling. This effect ends when your rage ends, or until the end of your next turn if you are not raging.

Essence of the Earth (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to invoke the essence of air. You and all allies gain resistance to acid damage and you may choose to have your spirit weapon do acid damage in addition to, or in place of, any other types of damage it deals. This calling ends when your rage ends, or you invoke another rage-enhancing calling. If you use this while not raging, it last for a number of rounds you rolled on the spirit die + your constitution modifier.

Toughness of Stone - When you are damaged by a melee attack, you can use your reaction and one spirit die to reduce the damage by the number you roll on the spirit die + your constitution modifier.

Stone Crusher (rage-enhancing) - When you enter your rage, or as a bonus action, you can expend one spirit die to create devastation amongst non-living objects. You crit non-magical objects and constructs on a 19-20 and deal double damage against all non-magical objects. This calling ends when your rage ends, or you invoke another rage-enhancing calling. If you use this while not raging, it last for a number of rounds you rolled on the spirit die + your constitution modifier.

BulletMagnet
2016-09-28, 11:31 AM
Revisions:

Rage-enhancing callings: I think its too strong to give duration outside of rage equal to die + con mod. I am changing it so the effect lasts until the end of your next turn and you may add the die to the damage on one weapon attack until the duration ends. Simplified the wording on how it ends.

Essence callings: I'd like to set this apart a bit - so I am also changing these to make it so allies within 5 ft of you gain the resistance as well.

BulletMagnet
2016-09-29, 01:29 PM
Shameless bump for feedback?

Amnoriath
2016-09-29, 03:49 PM
One of the things that seem really off to me when reading this is how you go from ancestor's to primordials in your flavor. Ultimately this is about elemental flavor not spiritual flavor. The other thing that really sticks out is that you gave them the Beserker's 6th level which is awesome in and of itself while still having your calling abilities increasing on the side. So that must be changed. As for your 10th level I would drop the first part depending on how you handle the 6th level will determine how you should handle things here. I would move the two callings to 14th level instead and the additional die a rage and d12 sooner is explicitly stronger than anything the Battlemaster has especially since it is constitution based.

As for the callings some of them are copies but the rage enhancers are the ones that get far more mileage than the Battlemaster and some of those are even better than the Totem animal's versions. Overall you have a nice idea of what you want but you are trying to use a sub-class base designed for 5 levels(at least should be d12's are not a capstone:smallmad:) while trying to look more complete by giving it more. Perhaps expand on your flavor to see if the weapons are really necessary. If they are you should focus a little more on them, if not you could consider using Wisdom while trading in Dex. for wis. on your AC while getting some cool elemental insight capabilities.

BulletMagnet
2016-09-29, 06:24 PM
One of the things that seem really off to me when reading this is how you go from ancestor's to primordials in your flavor. Ultimately this is about elemental flavor not spiritual flavor. The other thing that really sticks out is that you gave them the Beserker's 6th level which is awesome in and of itself while still having your calling abilities increasing on the side. So that must be changed. As for your 10th level I would drop the first part depending on how you handle the 6th level will determine how you should handle things here. I would move the two callings to 14th level instead and the additional die a rage and d12 sooner is explicitly stronger than anything the Battlemaster has especially since it is constitution based.

As for the callings some of them are copies but the rage enhancers are the ones that get far more mileage than the Battlemaster and some of those are even better than the Totem animal's versions. Overall you have a nice idea of what you want but you are trying to use a sub-class base designed for 5 levels(at least should be d12's are not a capstone:smallmad:) while trying to look more complete by giving it more. Perhaps expand on your flavor to see if the weapons are really necessary. If they are you should focus a little more on them, if not you could consider using Wisdom while trading in Dex. for wis. on your AC while getting some cool elemental insight capabilities.

So I agree I can do a better job regarding spirits. I am trying to tie the lore to elemental spirits and life (animals and ancestors). Sort of like shaman-light in wow.

I am trying to understand your subclass comment. I tried to follow the fighter subclass, which has incremental increases in very similar levels. They still get improvements even when they get new maneuvers and larger dice...so trying to understand what you mean. I can limit the level six to only be active when you have a rage enhaced calling? Or maybe turn it into a rage enhaced calling and give a smaller buff?

I can make it d10 instead of d12. I figured one level earlier wasnt a huge deal since by that point fighters have 3 attacks.

I feel barbs are already fairly mad with dex, str and con needs. Would like to avoid adding wis to the mix

Amnoriath
2016-09-29, 06:48 PM
So I agree I can do a better job regarding spirits. I am trying to tie the lore to elemental spirits and life (animals and ancestors). Sort of like shaman-light in wow.

I am trying to understand your subclass comment. I tried to follow the fighter subclass, which has incremental increases in very similar levels. They still get improvements even when they get new maneuvers and larger dice...so trying to understand what you mean. I can limit the level six to only be active when you have a rage enhaced calling? Or maybe turn it into a rage enhaced calling and give a smaller buff?

I can make it d10 instead of d12. I figured one level earlier wasnt a huge deal since by that point fighters have 3 attacks.

I feel barbs are already fairly mad with dex, str and con needs. Would like to avoid adding wis to the mix
1. Okay, so why don't you want a 1/3 caster instead?
2. Limiting it to your better calling abilities isn't much of a qualifier. You are trying to fit in the Beserker's best abilities on top of your really good choices. If you are going to keep choices like this and the similar frame you need to think more along the lines of how they can be a better character not so much how can it be optimal. Which goes back are the weapons key here or just flavor? As of now its like this character would outclass other Barbarians unless the DM is throwing out some really awesome heavy weapons.
3. It helps, perhaps rage allows you to reroll these die getting the better choice at 14 instead.
4. I don't think you get what I am saying. If you would do this your unarmored AC would be 10+con.+wis. Barbarians already get advantage on the key battle rolls for Dexterity for the most part. You would be trading the two which is pretty nice deal since it runs most key make or break rolls.

BulletMagnet
2016-09-29, 10:24 PM
Amnoriath - thank you for taking the time to provide me feedback. Please see my thoughts below.


1. Okay, so why don't you want a 1/3 caster instead?


I would like to avoid picking spells and rummaging through spell lists, and fluff wise - this is more about the strength of your spirit and link to the ethereal world beyond that manifests the abilities. I also thought this was a way I could get the DC to be based off of one of the non mental stats since Fighter uses physical stats as well for DC (which would be primary stat for them).



2. Limiting it to your better calling abilities isn't much of a qualifier. You are trying to fit in the Beserker's best abilities on top of your really good choices. If you are going to keep choices like this and the similar frame you need to think more along the lines of how they can be a better character not so much how can it be optimal. Which goes back are the weapons key here or just flavor? As of now its like this character would outclass other Barbarians unless the DM is throwing out some really awesome heavy weapons.


Good point, and I believe I see where you are going with this. I do really like the flavor of your spiritual connection bringing forth weapons. So I really would like to keep them, as they are idea upon which I started building the class. Trying to build a concept where you have a warrior running around on a battlefield throwing spirit axes :) And thought it would be cool at higher levels to basically have them throw one hand axe then blink to the target and engage in melee (obviously limited somehow - so I was thinking using superiority dice would be good limiter). So when you say make it more about the spirit weapons - do you mean the callings, or the level abilities?

So here is an idea focused on the weapon:

Level 6 - Spiritual Recall - Your spirit weapons gain the thrown property. If they already had the thrown property - you may double their range. If a spirit weapon is used as a projectile, or thrown, you may choose to have it return to you as part of the same attack, or return it later as a free action.

I would then remove the strength of earth calling and add the following calling:

Ancestral Touch (rage-enhancing) - Your spirit weapons bestow the ability to see into the ethereal plane and do normal damage to ethereal objects/creatures



3. It helps, perhaps rage allows you to reroll these die getting the better choice at 14 instead.


I am a bit confused on what you are suggesting for level 10 Improved Ethereal Superiority - Would it be like:

Your spirit die increases to d10. At 14th level, you may reroll your spirit die and take the higher value?




4. I don't think you get what I am saying. If you would do this your unarmored AC would be 10+con.+wis. Barbarians already get advantage on the key battle rolls for Dexterity for the most part. You would be trading the two which is pretty nice deal since it runs most key make or break rolls.


So I'd like to avoid using wis if possible. What is your suggestion if that is the case?

Amnoriath
2016-09-29, 11:28 PM
Amnoriath - thank you for taking the time to provide me feedback. Please see my thoughts below.



I would like to avoid picking spells and rummaging through spell lists, and fluff wise - this is more about the strength of your spirit and link to the ethereal world beyond that manifests the abilities. I also thought this was a way I could get the DC to be based off of one of the non mental stats since Fighter uses physical stats as well for DC (which would be primary stat for them).



Good point, and I believe I see where you are going with this. I do really like the flavor of your spiritual connection bringing forth weapons. So I really would like to keep them, as they are idea upon which I started building the class. Trying to build a concept where you have a warrior running around on a battlefield throwing spirit axes :) And thought it would be cool at higher levels to basically have them throw one hand axe then blink to the target and engage in melee (obviously limited somehow - so I was thinking using superiority dice would be good limiter). So when you say make it more about the spirit weapons - do you mean the callings, or the level abilities?

So here is an idea focused on the weapon:

Level 6 - Spiritual Recall - Your spirit weapons gain the thrown property. If they already had the thrown property - you may double their range. If a spirit weapon is used as a projectile, or thrown, you may choose to have it return to you as part of the same attack, or return it later as a free action.

I would then remove the strength of earth calling and add the following calling:

Ancestral Touch (rage-enhancing) - Your spirit weapons bestow the ability to see into the ethereal plane and do normal damage to ethereal objects/creatures



I am a bit confused on what you are suggesting for level 10 Improved Ethereal Superiority - Would it be like:

Your spirit die increases to d10. At 14th level, you may reroll your spirit die and take the higher value?




So I'd like to avoid using wis if possible. What is your suggestion if that is the case?
1. Keep in mind there are rituals as well. Don't shamans have a mental they base themselves around.
2. Pretty much so that there is a reason for them being there and some unique twists that are important for the sub-class. You may want to include they bond with a weapon they find instead so they aren't stuck with regular weapons kind of like the Blade Pact. The ability is about the same as Know your Enemy without the Exploration pillar.
3. Overall your callings stand out as being better simply because of the mileage they pack even if you would take away their enhancements. If you are going to emulate another mechanic it is important to know what the other is not capable of. That it isn't capable of initiating battle-long buffs. Callings may need to be another level entirely.
4. Like that but your 10th level may be needed for something else though.
5. Here is the dilemma you need to face none of the stats a Battlemaster gets can't go above 20 without some other DM intervention. While it is down the road yours can easily get 24 putting your DC at 21 while everyone else is hoping for 19 or a +7 instead of a +5. If you don't want this the only answer to balance this with a Battlemaster is that it doesn't get bigger dice. I offered Wisdom because it is the balancing point and offers a good flavorful mental path for characters like to take.

BulletMagnet
2016-09-30, 02:30 AM
1. Keep in mind there are rituals as well. Don't shamans have a mental they base themselves around.
2. Pretty much so that there is a reason for them being there and some unique twists that are important for the sub-class. You may want to include they bond with a weapon they find instead so they aren't stuck with regular weapons kind of the Blade Pact. The ability is about the same as Know your Enemy without the Exploration pillar.
3. Overall your callings stand out as being better simply because of the mileage they pack even if you would take away their enhancements. If you are going to emulate another mechanic it is important to know what the other is not capable of. That it isn't capable of initiating battle-long buffs. Callings may need to be another level entirely.
4. Like that but your 10th level may be needed for something else though.
5. Here is the dilemma you need to face none of the stats a Battlemaster gets can't go above 20 without some other DM intervention. While it is down the road yours can easily get 24 putting your DC at 21 while everyone else is hoping for 19 or a +7 instead of a +5. If you don't want this the only answer to balance this with a Battlemaster is that it doesn't get bigger dice. I offered wisdom because it is the balancing point and offers a good mental path for characters like to take.

1 - Yes, I originally started with the idea of a 1/3 caster, then using the slots to achieve things rather than cast spells...but felt its too complicated. I like the simplicity behind having the ability vs. going through spell lists. Same with our DM as well....plus it seems more supernatural vs. spell-like if that makes sense

2. Which one :) Didn't know through your answer if you meant make the callings more weapon focused, or the abilities? Or was that a both?

3. Yes, but they should be in my opinion because that's what your other barbarian paths do. They all augment/modify your rage ability as well whether it be through resist everything, or extra attacks/immunity to charm/etc.. this one just allows you to have some flexibility in how to modify your rage. I was thinking the Essence callings are nice - not nearly as powerful as the you're immune to everything like totem gives, or extra attack like berserker, but its a bit of variety cause your allies get a resist to 5ft around you and you can change damage type. If we limit it to 1 rage-enhancing calling, then they should be on-par with the other enhancements that the other paths give - right?

4. hrmm okkayyy.....?

5.Ah I forgot about the 24 con at cap...we never hit 20, so I never thought of that. I guess a few ways to tackle this. 1 - no callings that require a save. 2 - no progressing dice. 3 - start dice at lower size so it gives feeling of progressing (d4 -> d6 -> d8) Another is to just use a point construct, like sorcery points

Amnoriath
2016-10-05, 11:00 PM
Sorry for the wait, been pulling lots of double shifts.
1. It does but currently there is little if no utility here.
2. Well I think you need to make a choice here as is you are trying to juggle them with a die system and trying to tie that to rage. Are the weapons really necessary in the concept here or does just sound cool for your character to have? There many different ways to emulate that.
3. Totem barbarians don't offer immunity to anything and only 3rd level bear totem offers resistance to most damage. The problem isn't so much the potency as it is the variety and the better choices rage-enhancing are over the other die options. A totem warrior can only get two ways to augment rage and they are stuck conversely. In addition you include allies in many of them but you don't specify a range.
4. I don't think you need to start at a d4 if you stay at a d8 and offer reroll at level 14 while raging it should cover getting better. Ultimately wisdom to me is the best choice and perhaps instead putting all the rage-enhancing in the dice it may should have its own level since many of them kind of play with the idea of auras.