D&D 3.5 Lich Sorcerer

[Calaca94]

Hello, i'm about to go back to my first character ever, a sorcerer who wanted to become a lich: that's the point of the character, all the rest can be changed (ability scores, feats, skills, spells known, even race), so i wanted to ask you guys if there's some way to make a decent lich sorcerer in D&D 3.5 given the +4 LA in exchange for all the bonuses that don't seem to do much for a caster other than giving him a free unlimited "insert coin". Every manual is permitted and, regarding the level, i'll be starting where i left: level 8 (but i'm trying to make him decent in the long term). Also, if there's no way of making him decent, what suitable alternatives could there be?

[Zanos]

I'll be frank.

The Lich Template is bad. Extremely bad. It costs a ludicrous amount of gold and XP, as well as hitting you with a level adjustment that makes your lich being a powerful caster basically a pipe dream. I would either discuss the cost with your GM and home brew something custom, or pursue an other option of becoming an undead spellcaster that is not so crippling. If you're interested in such an option, the Necropolitian template from Libris Mortis makes you undead, at the cost of a level 1000 XP drain, and 3k gold. No level adjustment, so you can catch back up.

[Name1]

A Mulan Human Sorcerer can use the Southern Magician feat to cast spells as divine spells, qualifying for Walker in the Waste. This offers him the ability to become a dry lich instead of a regular lich, which might be acceptable to you. It has few different abilities though, but you could go the way of Sorcerer 10/WitW 10. It's not optimized by any means, but at least you get the template at WitWs level 10 for free.

[Mordaedil]

You have to be capable of casting 6th level spells to become a lich though (or a level 11 wizard as the monster manual says) so you can't really do at level 8. The four level adjustment just means you'll get experience at a slower rate, in trade off you'll basically become immortal. Just stuff your phylactary in a safe place, trap it as best you can, and enjoy the stat boosts. You also have a pretty good paralyzing touch attack that will cause it to look as if you are murdering people left and right.

[Zanos]

You have to be capable of casting 6th level spells to become a lich though (or a level 11 wizard as the monster manual says) so you can't really do at level 8. The four level adjustment just means you'll get experience at a slower rate, in trade off you'll basically become immortal. Just stuff your phylactary in a safe place, trap it as best you can, and enjoy the stat boosts. You also have a pretty good paralyzing touch attack that will cause it to look as if you are murdering people left and right.
The minimum ECL for a Lich Sorcerer is 15, at which point you could just cast Clone every handful of years and be immortal anyway. You lose a level, but that can be mended with a Greater Restoration.

I think you're underestimating LA effects. If the OP took the lich template as soon as he qualified, he'd be ECL 15 in a party of ECL 11 characters. This is, of course, assuming he pays the 4,800xp and 120,000gp(almost twice the WBL of a level 11 character) for the phylactery. If he then goes and defeats an ECL 11 encounter with his party, he will receive 281 XP and they will receive 825. Since his XP total didn't actually increase with his ECL, he has 55,000 experience and needs 120,000 to get his next class level, compared to his party that has 55,000 and needs 66,000 for their next class level.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The minimum ECL for a Lich Sorcerer is 15, at which point you could just cast Clone every handful of years and be immortal anyway. You lose a level, but that can be mended with a Greater Restoration.

I think you're underestimating LA effects. If the OP took the lich template as soon as he qualified, he'd be ECL 15 in a party of ECL 11 characters. This is, of course, assuming he pays the 4,800xp and 120,000gp(almost twice the WBL of a level 11 character) for the phylactery. If he then goes and defeats an ECL 11 encounter with his party, he will receive 281 XP and they will receive 825. Since his XP total didn't actually increase with his ECL, he has 55,000 experience and needs 120,000 to get his next class level, compared to his party that has 55,000 and needs 66,000 for their next class level.

You forgot the most damning kick in the teeth of that sudden ECL bump; you're suddenly getting significantly less XP for each encounter since you're 4 levels higher than your allies now.

[Zanos]

You forgot the most damning kick in the teeth of that sudden ECL bump; you're suddenly getting significantly less XP for each encounter since you're 4 levels higher than your allies now.
Wrong! You're fired (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75SEy1qu71I)!

The minimum ECL for a Lich Sorcerer is 15, at which point you could just cast Clone every handful of years and be immortal anyway. You lose a level, but that can be mended with a Greater Restoration.

I think you're underestimating LA effects. If the OP took the lich template as soon as he qualified, he'd be ECL 15 in a party of ECL 11 characters. This is, of course, assuming he pays the 4,800xp and 120,000gp(almost twice the WBL of a level 11 character) for the phylactery. If he then goes and defeats an ECL 11 encounter with his party, he will receive 281 XP and they will receive 825. Since his XP total didn't actually increase with his ECL, he has 55,000 experience and needs 120,000 to get his next class level, compared to his party that has 55,000 and needs 66,000 for their next class level.

[Mordaedil]

Are you forgetting that you die if you cast Clone on yourself?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Wrong! You're fired (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75SEy1qu71I)!

Well. Color me rosy. :smallredface:

Meh, bad enough to bear repeating anyway.

[Zanos]

Well. Color me rosy. :smallredface:

Meh, bad enough to bear repeating anyway.
Absolutely. His fellows will hit level 16 long before he does.


Are you forgetting that you die if you cast Clone on yourself?
I don't see that anywhere in the spell. Hell, it even says that "A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved."

[Mordaedil]

Sorry, misinterpreted the previous paragraph.

[Gemini476]

The minimum ECL for a Lich Sorcerer is 15, at which point you could just cast Clone every handful of years and be immortal anyway. You lose a level, but that can be mended with a Greater Restoration.

I think you're underestimating LA effects. If the OP took the lich template as soon as he qualified, he'd be ECL 15 in a party of ECL 11 characters. This is, of course, assuming he pays the 4,800xp and 120,000gp(almost twice the WBL of a level 11 character) for the phylactery. If he then goes and defeats an ECL 11 encounter with his party, he will receive 281 XP and they will receive 825. Since his XP total didn't actually increase with his ECL, he has 55,000 experience and needs 120,000 to get his next class level, compared to his party that has 55,000 and needs 66,000 for their next class level.


Greater restoration does not restore levels or Constitution points lost due to death.

Also, Clone doesn't make you any younger.


The clone is physically identical with the original

Not that being a Lich is that worth it anyway, but Clone really doesn't hold a candle to it.

Although given that most campaigns probably don't go much further beyond level 11 anyway...

[Zanos]

Also, Clone doesn't make you any younger.
Ah, missed that on the greater rez. Fair point there. You could use a thought bottle for it's intended purpose, perhaps, to avoid the level loss on death.

Presumably the clone is physically identical to you when you cast the spell. Since you can explicitly preserve clones, there's nothing preventing you from making one when you're, say, 35. You will have to kill yourself before you actually age to death, but your soul will inhabit your preserved 35 year old body. Then you take a flesh sample from your new body, and you're good to go again. Even absent of that, there's a number of ways to prevent death via aging that require very little investment, and Clone gets you the "I don't die when I am killed" of a phylactery. If you were 17th, Astral Projection would be better.

[Grim Reader]

Seconding Walker in the Waste. From memory, it loses you only two caster levels and makes you a Dry Lich. And if you play a Kobold or Changeling you can recover one of those levels.

If you are good at finagling entry requirements you can also get in fairly early.

[Calaca94]

Thank you all kindly for the elaborate answers, i think the best option will be to talk with my master and try to homebrew something decent

[J-H]

Yes. If I were a DM and had a character who really, really wanted to become a Lich, I'd reduce it to 2 LA and remove the XP cost.

[Fizban]

+4 LA for the ability to return from death with no level loss is the standard price. Ghosts have LA+5, since incorporeality has more benefits and is stronger defense than DR (though Lich DR is pretty good, bludgeoning weapons never seem to be in vogue). The worth is obvious for anyone who operates alone or with lower level minions instead of an adventuring party: +4 LA results in maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of the xp, but you never die, so you actually get infinite xp over time.

The Curst (Lost Empires of Faerun) is unkillable at +3 LA, but is far more vulnerable since it doesn't actually return. Annihilating the body or beating a basic caster level check with Remove Curse will destory it, and it also takes mental penalties (only -2 cha though).

If you want a template that makes a caster more powerful, it's effectively an oxymoron since any template with significant abilities will reduce your casting.

If you want to return from death, you can have Death Pact (SpC) cast on you, but it costs 2 con points (unrecoverable) and can be dispelled. You could instead have Undeath after Death (Magic of Faerun) cast on you, which also costs 2 con points but you return as a Crypt Spawn for no level loss with LA+2. You could state that your character is so driven that if killed they return as a ghost, and then use the Ghost template class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) to control how much effective LA you take on (this the second most powerful, since you can get incorporeality and rejuvenation for effectively LA+3). If simply declaring this isn't enough, you could assign a ritual with whatever cost seems appropriate.

You could also petition the DM to let you use Ghostwalk ghostification, which has no level loss or LA and is superior even to the Ghost template class, but that's essentially because as a quasi-setting it is assumed that all characters have access to it.

Personally, despite all the flaws I quite like the Sand Shaper. You lose caster levels and it duplicates Ressurection so there's level loss on death, and it only triggers automatically if you manage to die in a waste environment. But, since it only takes a tiny part of your body making it back to the waste for your ressurrection, you can have a familiar or cult or bound outsider waiting in your pocket to grab a piece and deliver it. Even if disintegrated you can make the case that centuries or millenia later some bit of your dust is eventually blown to the edge of the desert where you may rise again.

[Gemini476]

You could also petition the DM to let you use Ghostwalk ghostification, which has no level loss or LA and is superior even to the Ghost template class, but that's essentially because as a quasi-setting it is assumed that all characters have access to it.

I don't remember, but doesn't ghostwalk's ghostification force you into levelling the ghostification class?

[Name1]

Personally, despite all the flaws I quite like the Sand Shaper. You lose caster levels and it duplicates Ressurection so there's level loss on death, and it only triggers automatically if you manage to die in a waste environment. But, since it only takes a tiny part of your body making it back to the waste for your ressurrection, you can have a familiar or cult or bound outsider waiting in your pocket to grab a piece and deliver it. Even if disintegrated you can make the case that centuries or millenia later some bit of your dust is eventually blown to the edge of the desert where you may rise again.

Bolded for pure awesome. That sounds really damn amazing.

Also, I second the Ghost Template if you are going for Immortality. A high level ghost CAN'T be killed, phylactery or not, at least not without possibly makig a major sacrifice (what if the Ghost can only be laid to rest by freeing Pandorym? Well, then you are stuck between a rock and a hard place... namely a crystal prison).

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't remember, but doesn't ghostwalk's ghostification force you into levelling the ghostification class?

It may in the default ghostwalk setting (will save on level up or take a level in eidolon or eidoloncer) but a DM can lift that easily enough.

[Fizban]

I don't remember, but doesn't ghostwalk's ghostification force you into levelling the ghostification class?
Yes, but for a caster all that really does is prevent you from taking prestige classes. Eidoloncer gives full spellcasting, and if/when you're raised you have to convert the levels into the class who's spellcasting you were advancing, which means you'll end up with more base class levels. The main point of the mechanic is just to track the number of levels you've spent as a ghost, so that when that exceeds the number of levels you spent alive you get yoinked off to the true death, giving you an incentive to get raised every so often.

[Exocist]

Seconding Walker in the Waste. From memory, it loses you only two caster levels and makes you a Dry Lich. And if you play a Kobold or Changeling you can recover one of those levels.

If you are good at finagling entry requirements you can also get in fairly early.

Thirding Walker in the Waste, although some might say that Southern Magician doesn't let you apply due to something about the last paragraph contradicting the first. Anyway, the spells that you'll need to take are Any 3 of Haboob, Desiccate, Tormenting Thirst and Parching Touch. I would consider talking to your DM about letting you take Black Sand, because out of those spells, only Haboob and Tormenting Thirst are good, and even then it severely hampers your spells known (which is quite low as a sorcerer). You'll also need to be an Asherati or burn a feat on Heat Endurance (Questionable if playing a Desert race gives heat endurance).

It has a lot of goodies for a Sorcerer that the standard Lich doesn't, including:

- Create Salt Mummy (for free) - They're basically extra fighters. They're freakin' TOUGH. They have 12 HD though, so you'll only be able to control two or three at a time (short of using awaken undead and convincing them that you're an ally).
- Create Sand Golem (5000GP and some negligible amount of XP) - A bit costly, but these guys rock. Get two of them and anything living EVER will probably die in 2 rounds due to their suffocation ability.
- Unholy Toughness - This one probably doesn't need explaining.
- Immunity to Heat. Congratulations, you're literally immune to motion.

Having played one before, you'll be a bit weak until you get Create Sand Golem (Level 11), but 3.5 sorcerers aren't that bad anyway. Can solve a lot with just Alter Self.


-------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Another neat little trick you can do with Walker, is that if you also convince your party to take Walker, then your Drought auras stack. Greater Drought starts at Severe Heat, the 2nd one will bump it to Burning Heat (2d10 Fire Damage/Round, but you guys are immune), the 3rd one bumps the burning heat 2 bands more (IIRC Sandstorm rulings meant that for every 100 degrees it went above burning heat, the fire damage increased by 2d10, so up to 6d10), and the 4th one would bump it to 10d10.

So long as you guys overlap the 100ft Radii of course.

[Fizban]

Uh, Sand Golems cost 50,000gp to create. Pretty cheap for a golem but they do have less DR than usual. And while it's not explicitly stated, considering the only way to create a normal Mummy is with Create Undead and the Create Salt Mummy ability calls it a "specialized form," it can be easily ruled that this must follow the normal use of Create Undead.

[Exocist]

Uh, Sand Golems cost 50,000gp to create. Pretty cheap for a golem but they do have less DR than usual.

Rechecked my Sandstorm PDF - I missed the Extra 0. Also, I missed everything else about creating them.

50,000 is the price to BUY one. To create it requires Craft Construct, Awaken Sand, Fuse Sand, Geas/Quest, 14th CL as well as 27,000 GP and 920XP. Also, you need treated sand, which requires a 10-ft cube of sand and another 2000GP

I was just making them for 5000GP + the 2000GP for the sand. (whoops)

Their DR is pretty bad (5/Bludgeoning and Magic), but Stifle & Burrow speed make up for it. They're still Immune to Magic in any case, so you can use them to get rid of those pesky supernatural creatures. They also have a +27 grapple, which is useful for getting rid of small(er) things such as enemy wizards, in case antimagic wasn't enough.



And while it's not explicitly stated, considering the only way to create a normal Mummy is with Create Undead and the Create Salt Mummy ability calls it a "specialized form," it can be easily ruled that this must follow the normal use of Create Undead.

Here's the actual class feature:

"At 8th level, you learn a specialized form of the ancient art of mummification. Invested with the dark power of the waste, you are able to preserve and animate a corpse. You also add to it the essence of dehydration to produce a horrid salt mummy (see below)."

Where (Below) lists just the statblock for a salt mummy. It probably does require DM Fiat on how the ability actually works. Considering it's just an SU ability with no listed range, components or action. I'm not exactly sure what the rulings on creating a regular mummy are, follow those maybe? I just got 10minutes + 3rd level slot, similar to animate dead, but no material cost.

[Fizban]

Actually, 50,000 is the price to BUY one.
D'oh. Yeah they're definitely one of the cheapest and less than most non-golems, if you can ignore the fluff tying them to the organization they'd be one of the best for an early crafter if it weren't for the prerequisites. There's also the problem that the class ability lets you ignore Craft Golem but otherwise refers you to the monster entry, where you have to meat the usual stupid golem prerequisites that stop you from building anything until 13th+ thanks to Geas/Quest. Oh how I loathe that.

Immune to Magic in any case, so you can use them to get rid of those pesky supernatural creatures.
Supernatural abilities ignore Immunity to Magic like it's not even there, same way they do Spell Resistance. There's at least one module out there that thinks golems are immune to breath weapons, but breath weapons are one of the best ways to take them out. Though you can make a case that an Iron Golem's fire absorption is a additional effect not dependent upon the spell resistance qualifier for the main ability, but that'd still be fire damage only.

Considering it's just an SU ability with no listed range, components or action. I'm not exactly sure what the rulings on creating a regular mummy are, follow those maybe? I just got 10minutes + 3rd level slot, similar to animate dead, but no material cost.
Creating a normal Mummy is done by casting Create Undead. That's a 6th level spell with a 1 hour casting time, cast at CL15 for a Mummy, which is uncontrolled, and costs the usual 50gp per hit die. In order to command them via Rebuking you'd need to be 24th level, and Walker in the Waste does not progress turn/rebuke. Command Undead is a Sor/Wiz spell. Amusingly, the Walkers in the Waste have no means to control their Salt Mummies aside from diplomacy or DM fiat. Not surprising considering it's one of those "obviously the bad guy" classes. Meanwhile Sand Shaper is just full of abilities that only barely work because whoever wrote them didn't actually read what they wrote or compare it to what they were referencing.

[Exocist]

D'oh. Yeah they're definitely one of the cheapest and less than most non-golems, if you can ignore the fluff tying them to the organization they'd be one of the best for an early crafter if it weren't for the prerequisites. There's also the problem that the class ability lets you ignore Craft Golem but otherwise refers you to the monster entry, where you have to meat the usual stupid golem prerequisites that stop you from building anything until 13th+ thanks to Geas/Quest. Oh how I loathe that.

Guess you could just ask one of your fellow conclave members to help you out? That or just veto the Geas/Quest prerequisite (make up something about the control amulet functioning the same), seeing as the printed WitW is a Druid, and Druids don't even get Geas/Quest.


Supernatural abilities ignore Immunity to Magic like it's not even there, same way they do Spell Resistance. There's at least one module out there that thinks golems are immune to breath weapons, but breath weapons are one of the best ways to take them out. Though you can make a case that an Iron Golem's fire absorption is a additional effect not dependent upon the spell resistance qualifier for the main ability, but that'd still be fire damage only.

IDK Why but my DM thinks that anti-magic = immunity to anything magic. Like AD&D Anti-Magic or something like that where it literally blocks anything that the DM thinks is remotely magical. He might have been using that alternate module, because everything that had "antimagic" was immune to anything that was SU, Spell-like or Spell.

[Fizban]

More amusingly, Walker in the Waste does not exempt you from the +5 LA of the Dry Lich template. Not in the main feature or the rest of the class info, not in jars nor template nor the rite itself. So actually, a Walker in the Waste loses two levels of casting followed by an extra +5 LA once they finish becoming a Dry Lich.

And oh yes, the various writers have very little idea of the differences between magic immunity, anti-magic, dead magic, and so on. Basically just assume that any module which references anything like that is going to be wrong in at least one way, even moreso if it's a major feature of the module (hello Scouring of the Land and Empire of Shade).

[Grim Reader]

Thirding Walker in the Waste, although some might say that Southern Magician doesn't let you apply due to something about the last paragraph contradicting the first. Anyway, the spells that you'll need to take are Any 3 of Haboob, Desiccate, Tormenting Thirst and Parching Touch. I would consider talking to your DM about letting you take Black Sand, because out of those spells, only Haboob and Tormenting Thirst are good, and even then it severely hampers your spells known (which is quite low as a sorcerer). You'll also need to be an Asherati or burn a feat on Heat Endurance (Questionable if playing a Desert race gives heat endurance).

I do wish there were more ways of getting those spells on your list for other divine classes. You are fine if you want to enter as a Cleric, Archivist etc, but for other classes it can be pretty hard to get them.


More amusingly, Walker in the Waste does not exempt you from the +5 LA of the Dry Lich template. Not in the main feature or the rest of the class info, not in jars nor template nor the rite itself. So actually, a Walker in the Waste loses two levels of casting followed by an extra +5 LA once they finish becoming a Dry Lich.

Actually, towards then end of 3.5, several of the designers got together to answer highly debated rules questions from the players on the WoTC forums, and this was one of the ones that came up. They stated that it should be regarded as a general rule that for all PrCs that gave you a template or type change, it should be considered that the LA was paid through the PrC levels. As far as I remember it this was the only case where an answer was stated as a general rule.

Disclaimer: From memory from something I read a decade ago. Actual text may vary.

[Exocist]

More amusingly, Walker in the Waste does not exempt you from the +5 LA of the Dry Lich template. Not in the main feature or the rest of the class info, not in jars nor template nor the rite itself. So actually, a Walker in the Waste loses two levels of casting followed by an extra +5 LA once they finish becoming a Dry Lich.

Assume you're not playing with an insane DM. It's a 10 level PRC, anyone would be grumpy if they lost ANOTHER 5 levels on top.


And oh yes, the various writers have very little idea of the differences between magic immunity, anti-magic, dead magic, and so on. Basically just assume that any module which references anything like that is going to be wrong in at least one way, even moreso if it's a major feature of the module (hello Scouring of the Land and Empire of Shade).

I concur

[Exocist]

Creating a normal Mummy is done by casting Create Undead. That's a 6th level spell with a 1 hour casting time, cast at CL15 for a Mummy, which is uncontrolled, and costs the usual 50gp per hit die. In order to command them via Rebuking you'd need to be 24th level, and Walker in the Waste does not progress turn/rebuke. Command Undead is a Sor/Wiz spell. Amusingly, the Walkers in the Waste have no means to control their Salt Mummies aside from diplomacy or DM fiat. Not surprising considering it's one of those "obviously the bad guy" classes. Meanwhile Sand Shaper is just full of abilities that only barely work because whoever wrote them didn't actually read what they wrote or compare it to what they were referencing.

Well, what we can infer from this:

- Assume the Mummy is under the Walker's control, otherwise this is a completely useless feature. HD caps up to DM Fiat, whether the HD of the PC in Hit Dice of Undead (Similar to rebuking), 2x CL in HD (As Control Undead) or 4x Caster Level (As animate dead). Seeing as the sample Dry Lich "Troupe" has 2 Salt Mummies and 4 Sand Golems, I'm thinking more towards the first two options.
- The Ability has a 1 hour casting time, and you must have a corpse (duh)
- It uses up a 6th level spell slot OR it uses up 600GP in material components (50/HD, Mummy has 12HD). I'm more in favour of using up the 6th level slot, mostly because I don't like artificial drains on WBL.
- Range is Close (25ft + 5ft/2levels)

Sound balanced enough to you?

Other than that, there's only a few other class features that need a touch up.

1) Drought/Greater Drought - What does "Consciously suppress it again" mean? What action does that use? I'm assuming it would use a swift action, but this just seems to be an artificial drain on the PCs actions. Why not just let them put it up and down as they want?
2) Obviously aforementioned Sand Golem touchups - Remove Geas/Quest from the required spells, maybe as a bonus also have it add Awaken and Fuse Sand to your spell list? They're not exceptionally powerful spells.
3) Dry Lich's "Water Weakness" - How does it actually work? Does the spell "Create Water" (a freakin' cantrip) automatically kill you? Because flasks of holy water can't contain more than 250ml of water each, and they deal 2d4 damage. Assuming a 10th level Cleric casting Create water, that's 20 Gallons of water (no save) on top of your head, which is (Assuming 17x 250ml making a gallon) 680d4 damage. I don't think you can survive that. You literally die to a level 0 spell.

[Name1]

I always considered Water Weakness to work the same way it's done for most cases of total immersion: 10x regular effect/round. So it would deal 20d4 damage. Still a lot, but being immortal tends to come with a price.

On the +5 LA topic... yeah, you'll want to take your final level at the end of your career...

[Fizban]

Assuming all of those "flasks" hit, which is not how falling objects work. Better to just count the splash damage, so 340 then.

[Exocist]

Assuming all of those "flasks" hit, which is not how falling objects work. Better to just count the splash damage, so 340 then.

1 Cubic Meter (3ft x 3ft x 3ft) of water contains 1000 Litres = 264 Gallons of water. Create water only creates 2 Gallons/CL, so you'd need to have a ridiculosly high caster level to even fill a 5ft "Square" (cube) with water.

You can fit 20 gallons in 2.6 Cubic Feet, which is probably possible inside the Lich's own square. The only rule for spawning it is the standard conjuration rules "Conjuration spells can’t create substances or objects within a creature.", which doesn't say anything about creating it all the way around a creature.

Even assuming only 1/4 of the water hits him directly, and the rest is splash, he still takes 160d4 + 255 damage (Average 655 damage), which is probably enough to kill him, even with a high amount of Charisma.

Not to mention, every level above 10th adding more damage...

I'm in favour of using Total Immersion rules (20d4), as suggested above. It's still a bit of damage, considering the level of the spell and no save, but Dry Liches have Unholy Toughness anyway, so they can tank it.

[Endarire]

Greetings!

I recently updated my Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qtn0MDtFABUY9upKwTZlzd9SOeNPF7DHfzv4DsAmaNQ/edit?usp=sharing) homebrew variant with Lichdom. (I was inspired before, but you, OP, pushed me over the edge into doing it.) Enjoy!

[Dsrlou]

What I would go for is what something I've kinda thought up myself, but added to the info at the thread:

Complete Lich - Your Guide to Immortality

But Here's my Concept(WIP):

Balance Lich (Lich Variant)

-Arcane Channeling[Skill]-
Can toggle type and concentration of energy(+,-) being channeled,

=>Full negative
-VERY Powerful negative energy spells
-Str/Con increases greatly
-Undead body
-Body rots twice as fast
-Incredibly Vulnerable to Rebuking and turning
-Cannot use positive energy spells

=>Balanced Channeling
-Speed of body decay halved
-Semi-undead/living body
-Can cast moderately powerful positive and negative energy spells
-Gets 5 counter-roll chances against turning & rebuking
-Moderate increase to Dex, Cha, Str, and Con

=>Positive Channeling
-No Decay
-VERY Powerful positive energy spells
-Dex/Cha increases greatly
-‘Living’ body
-Invulnerable Vulnerable to Rebuking and turning
-Cannot use Negative energy spells

[CaPtMalHammer]

Another options is to just go the True Necromancer route and become a "Lich" that way. takes longer but no LA issue.