Improving Druid Forms

[DracoKnight]

Okay, so say you had a Druid player who like using particular forms, like say he always uses Tiger in combat (why do I keep using Tiger as my example? :smalltongue: ) would you allow it to scale like the Beast Master's Companion Bond? Here's a link (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/B1bAwM0up) to what it would look like. I rolled mental stats for said Druid in my example, because you keep your mental stats. I don't think it's OP, but what does the forum think?

[NiklasWB]

While I love the idea (I actually asked the forum about this about a year ago), and applaud your attempt, I think you have gone about raising the stats the wrong way.

I think AC should have a much smaller increase, seeing as how beast, even at high level/CR, generally have low AC. I think the max should be 16.

The HP is fine... I think? I'm away from book, so I would have to look at that later. Might be a bit high though... If I remember correctly, a Mammoth's HP is like 130 or something.

While I think it is good that you are keeping the Pounce from the regular Tiger, one thing I think you need to add is some sort of multiattack at higher levels. Without it you are simply doing a measly 1 attack per round unless you can move 20 feet. With only 1 attack you can easily miss, and the damage seems very low as well (average 15 points at level 17).

So yeah, love the idea, but I think the implementation needs some more work.

[DracoKnight]

While I love the idea (I actually asked the forum about this about a year ago), and applaud your attempt, I think you have gone about raising the stats the wrong way.

I think AC should have a much smaller increase, seeing as how beast, even at high level/CR, generally have low AC. I think the max should be 16.

The HP is fine... I think? I'm away from book, so I would have to look at that later. Might be a bit high though... If I remember correctly, a Mammoth's HP is like 130 or something.

While I think it is good that you are keeping the Pounce from the regular Tiger, one thing I think you need to add is some sort of multiattack at higher levels. Without it you are simply doing a measly 1 attack per round unless you can move 20 feet. With only 1 attack you can easily miss, and the damage seems very low as well (average 15 points at level 17).

So yeah, love the idea, but I think the implementation needs some more work.

Thanks for your feedback!

I will probably rework the scaling, yeah. Only the HP scales properly right now (gaining a new HD with each of your levels). AC I don't think is too high, but I'm willing to give it a bit of wiggle room. And yeah, a Multiattack is needed.

[NiklasWB]

Happy to give feedback! :)

I think the AC should definitely be lower. Remember that most monsters and beasts don't scale by having higher AC, but instead scale by having higher hit points and more damage. An AC of 20 is the highest a fighter (with a shield) can get in AC without magic items and the Defense fighting style. Giving a wild shape that high AC AND 150+ extra HP at level 17 would just be plain Overpowered. Remember that the Druid can wildshape twice per short rest... That's 300+ extra HP and 20 AC. No, that is just too powerful. I would say start with 12 in AC (regular tiger), and then work your way up to 16 (+1 each 'jump'). This way you have a natural AC progression that feels 'better' with every new form, but doesn't make you a far superior tank to every other class in the game. I don't think there is any beast in the Monster Manual that has higher AC than 15 or 16, so I would advice against anything more than that.

If I were to use a Tiger all the way through 1-20, I wouldn't mind being hit by a fair share of attacks, but I would like to have sufficient HP and do some decent damage to feel like I'm contributing. Otherwise you would start to feel like a wild shaped Turtle... Invincible, sure, not much else.

[RickAllison]

I'm pretty lax so long as it checks out with CR and doesn't look like it did anything too ridiculous (tacking on all the abilities that don't affect CR, only boosting offense or defense to get a min-maxed form, etc.).

If it has a real effect on CR so it is balanced out, I don't really care (unless it makes no sense, but magical beasts like Tressym may have weird things), and I would probably restrict it to one or two "ribbons".

[lunaticfringe]

Cough* Cough* Crag Cat from SKT. It's like a Tiger with nondetection & spell turning. Also the Tressym for Scouting. Damn good Druid Wildshape Love in that Adventure. Both of those are Beasts too.

Wouldn't Mage Armor work in Tiger Form?

That's the equivalent of +1 Hide Barding/Homebrewed Wildshape Armor without the stealth disadvantage. Moon Druid Magic Item options suck. Scrolls/Potions of Mage Armor? Beg DM for Wand of Mage Armor?