I want to get as many stats as possible as high as possible.

[SangoProduction]

I am going to be using an "archetype", or what have you, for monk that came from like some file I have, which, I'm fairly certain was a web enhancement for pathfinder from April 2016, that someone told me about to find a way to get a playable Gelatinous Ooze.

Anyway, the archetype's, called the MAD MAN, which modifies the monk base class. It's a pretty funny class (if only because you get to add your Strength bonus to stealth checks - in addition to dex), and I wanted to play it. It's primary feature uses a Save DC of 10 + 1/2 your mad man level + your lowest and second lowest ability modifier, to afflict various insanities upon the foe, or just teleport in place of an attack...because why not.

So yeah, there's the context as to the "why". Unless I just copy/paste it all here, I don't think I can give any more. The group is relatively low OP, so I can mostly ignore the magic items that give exotic immunities, like petrification, in lieu of getting more stat-boosting items.

Also, I can figure this out on my own, but just for completeness sake, we are starting at level 4, with 36 point buy.

I mostly want to know about the spells and items I should be looking towards to boost my stats.

EDIT: Oh...the PDF has a title page...well, it says.. April Augmented 2016, by Dreamscarred Press, for Pathfinder

EDIT again: Seems the DM is wanting a mostly 3.5 game (including classes, races, and templates), but with elements from Pathfinder, like the condensed skills. The archetype was allowed, because PF monk was almost a carbon copy of 3.5 Monk. Well, yay? I'm not complaining.

[Rebel7284]

The best way I know of getting high stats with 0 LA is to be a Venerable Dragonwraught Kobold (or Kobold Variant) for +3 to all mental stats. Taking Kobold Fighter Substitution levels then also gives you +2 Str/+2 Con, but that does mean you need to be fighter for four levels.

Besides that,
- There are some grafts that give bonuses to stats, but they tend to not be affordable until much later.
- Belt of Magnificence +6 gives you a minor discount when compared to boosting each stat by +6 as I recall.
- Taking ranks in UMD (possibly with Apprentice[Spellcaster] feat to make UMD a class skill) will allow you to use items to buff yourself.
- Two levels of Warshaper give you +4Str/+4Con
- If you can combine Mad Man with Wildshape Monk (i think in some dragon magazine), you can dump your Str/Con and then Wildshape into something with high physical stats.
- Leadership feat for a spellcasting cohort or a Heirophant that can share wildshape uses.

[SangoProduction]

The best way I know of getting high stats with 0 LA is to be a Venerable Dragonwraught Kobold (or Kobold Variant) for +3 to all mental stats. Taking Kobold Fighter Substitution levels then also gives you +2 Str/+2 Con, but that does mean you need to be fighter for four levels.

Besides that,
- There are some grafts that give bonuses to stats, but they tend to not be affordable until much later.
- Belt of Magnificence +6 gives you a minor discount when compared to boosting each stat by +6 as I recall.
- Taking ranks in UMD (possibly with Apprentice[Spellcaster] feat to make UMD a class skill) will allow you to use items to buff yourself.
- Two levels of Warshaper give you +4Str/+4Con
- If you can combine Mad Man with Wildshape Monk (i think in some dragon magazine), you can dump your Str/Con and then Wildshape into something with high physical stats.
- Leadership feat for a spellcasting cohort or a Heirophant that can share wildshape uses.

lol. I'm not sure my DM's going to let me do anything related to kobolds. And yeah, that's quite the level investment for +4 to stats. May as well take a monster class at that point...if that's still a thing in 3.5 or PF.

I'll look in to grafts.

Belt of Magnificence, is indeed less expensive than +6 to all stats individually (33,333 per +6, versus 36k per +6 of basic items), but up until that point, it's the more expensive option, and can't be bought piecemeal. It is therefore a long ways off, but I'll keep it in mind. But it saving slots could well be worthwhile.

I was intending on taking UMD. I actually forgot to ask the DM if we're using class skills. I'll do that now. I just assume people don't use it, because it's like shackles for characters taking classes. Thanks for the feat suggestion, just in case.

I really want to find that Wildshape Monk. That sounds amazing. My Google Fu sucks.

Hmm. cool idea. Has anyone actually gotten a game with Leadership in a game that wasn't designed around it?

[Ruethgar]

There is a feat in Dragon Compendium that boosts Transmutation spells +2 to the stats they give, that with Animalistic Power can be a nice +4 to the physicals without having to go through three spells. The Psychic Meditation and Deep Psychic Meditation feats with a resonating crystal for the two stat boosters can get you +2 to all stats for 4hr a day, away from my computer atm, but I think those were untyped.

[Zaq]

Meditant (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827c) offers some nice typeless bonuses to your stats, but it takes a hell of a lot of investment, and it's not really going to be effective at all at level 4.

There are a handful of other PrCs that offer nickel-and-dime bonuses to various stats, but they're not likely to be hugely useful in the aggregate, since they normally either give really small bonuses, require heavy investment, or both.

If you're willing to go kind of heavy on the cheese, the sacrifice rules in BoVD might be useful. It's not that hard to get a K: Religion check that's way up there if you're really optimizing for it, and hitting a DC 40 can get you a Greater Planar Ally, which would let you call a sibriex (Fiendish Codex I, pg. 52). Sibriexes can apply fiendish grafts (from the Fiend Folio) for free to a willing target, so if you can scrounge up the 1500 gp required by Planar Ally (or 750 gp if your GM accepts that this isn't hazardous to the sibriex, which it really isn't), you can have your sibriex buddy apply three fiendish grafts to you at a crazy low cost. (I do use the word "crazy" carefully here, since if you look at the sibriex, there's a good chance that you're going to go mad, but hey, you're already conducting an elaborate sacrifice to get a demon to apply fiendish grafts to you, so you're probably not a paragon of sanity already.) Some of those grafts do include inherent bonuses to stats, which is neat. Just make sure that you're Evil, or else you might end up with some Wisdom drain from the effects of having parts of your body replaced with the essence of evil itself. I repeat, I'm firmly aware that this method is heavy on the cheese, but it's certainly flavorful.

If you'd rather just spend (a lot of) money instead of simply dunking your character sheet in queso, you can always buy grafts, since a lot of them involve bonuses to stats. (In particular, silthilar grafts, from Lords of Madness, can increase your physical scores with no built-in downside—or at least, no built-in downside other than costing way the hell more money than you'll ever have.) But those bonuses are often typeless, or at least not enhancement, so that's something.

If you're using transmutation spells to increase your ability scores, you might look at the feat Ability Enhancer, from Dragon Compendium, which basically just makes those spells better at buffing ability scores. The problem is that spells tend to be less permanent than other methods of increasing stats, so that's not always an especially efficient route to go down.

[Rebel7284]

May as well take a monster class at that point...if that's still a thing in 3.5 or PF.

Sure, any race with a level adjustment can be used. Not sure which low LA race has the best stats, but certainly ask your DM about LA buyoff rules in Unearthed Arcana for reducing level adjustment over time if you use this path.



I really want to find that Wildshape Monk. That sounds amazing. My Google Fu sucks.


Wild Monk is in Dragon Magazine #324 page 97.

[meemaas]

If Templates are game, check out the Advanced template for a +4 to all stats at the cost of one level otherwise.

[digiman619]

I am going to be using an "archetype", or what have you, for monk that came from like some file I have, which, I'm fairly certain was a web enhancement for pathfinder from April 2016, that someone told me about to find a way to get a playable Gelatinous Ooze.

Anyway, the archetype's, called the MAD MAN, which modifies the monk base class. It's a pretty funny class (if only because you get to add your Strength bonus to stealth checks - in addition to dex), and I wanted to play it. It's primary feature uses a Save DC of 10 + 1/2 your mad man level + your lowest and second lowest ability modifier, to afflict various insanities upon the foe, or just teleport in place of an attack...because why not.

So yeah, there's the context as to the "why". Unless I just copy/paste it all here, I don't think I can give any more. The group is relatively low OP, so I can mostly ignore the magic items that give exotic immunities, like petrification, in lieu of getting more stat-boosting items.

Also, I can figure this out on my own, but just for completeness sake, we are starting at level 4, with 36 point buy.

I mostly want to know about the spells and items I should be looking towards to boost my stats.

Um... just for the record, you do know that supplement was done as an April Fools joke, right?

[SangoProduction]

(I do use the word "crazy" carefully here, since if you look at the sibriex, there's a good chance that you're going to go mad, but hey, you're already conducting an elaborate sacrifice to get a demon to apply fiendish grafts to you, so you're probably not a paragon of sanity already.)
(emphasis Mine)

You realize that the class is called MAD MAN, and is based around being crazy, and inflicting insanity, right? I don't think that's a downside. :) (And yes, I realize you already made that note. I just wanted to make it more clear.) Otherwise, that's a really nice post. quite a few good tips.


Um... just for the record, you do know that supplement was done as an April Fools joke, right?

....oh. Well, shoot. I didn't. Thankfully the DM doesn't either. :) ...Fine...I'll tell him.


If Templates are game, check out the Advanced template for a +4 to all stats at the cost of one level otherwise.

Oh, now that's a deal. lol. I've got to see if my DM will allow that. Might be too good, idk. But may as well check.

EDIT: Checked it out. It seems to only have a +CR, and no +LA. Are there rules on this?


Sure, any race with a level adjustment can be used. Not sure which low LA race has the best stats, but certainly ask your DM about LA buyoff rules in Unearthed Arcana for reducing level adjustment over time if you use this path.

Wild Monk is in Dragon Magazine #324 page 97.

Now that's an option. Also, tyvm for the Dragon Magazine number. How the hell do you find that? Do you just memorize the hundreds of magazines?

[digiman619]

....oh. Well, shoot. I didn't. Thankfully the DM doesn't either. :) ...Fine...I'll tell him.

Don't get me wrong; it's still DSP, so they do great work and it all checks out, but know they were kidding. As though the literal "Edgelord" archetype, wherein you make the character be as edgy as a 14-year-old boy's OC, should have been a hint.

[Azoth]

Since you are using Pathfinder material already, there is a race known as the Azlanti Purebloods. They are nearly extinct humans that get +2 to all ability scores, and don't trade away any of the human racial traits. There is a tagnote for DMs warning about the race's strength and suggesting a +1LA for the race, but is listed as LA+0.

[meschlum]

If you're using Pathfinder templates, there was a guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?352704-Templates-and-you) that reviewed them. It's somewhat out of date, but still should be helpful.

For optimal MAD applications at level 4, you probably want to be lycanthrope - it covers all your physical attribute needs, allowing you to focus your build on mental attributes (-2 Charisma is unfortunate, but you get +2 Wisdom so it sort of evens out, plus racial modifiers). Try for an infected lycanthrope, so you can get cured and upgrade to something better as you level up. Ideally, you'd want to be an Animal Lord, but that's for level 10+.

Being undead saves the need for Constitution, so your attributes can be more focused. If you can pull off being incorporeal, that's Strength removed as well - be a Ghost!

[Rebel7284]

(emphasis Mine)
EDIT: Checked it out. It seems to only have a +CR, and no +LA. Are there rules on this?


Pathfinder uses CR instead of LA and has some system that reduces stats instead of using LA. Not super familiar with the details, I tend to focus on 3.5.



Now that's an option. Also, tyvm for the Dragon Magazine number. How the hell do you find that? Do you just memorize the hundreds of magazines?

- I googled "D&D wildshape monk", without the quotes, looked at the results.
- Went to http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6897.0 which appeared near the top, got the magazine number and was amused that that's a thread I replied to six years ago.
- Opened a PDF of the relevant Dragon Magazine and scrolled down past things that didn't look like class descriptions.

[shaikujin]

3.5 has Festering Anger...

Would your DM allow you to write up a backstory letting your character be infected for a year? That'll be a whooping 730 enhancement bonus to STR.

And here's a way to get 1,200 Int and Cha via Verminlord & Symbiotic cheese:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365620-Build-Challenge-Can-t-Touch-This



For a less cheesy method or other stats - here's a handbook for the Extract Gift spell (if you can have 2 demons loop it between the 2 of them, the only limit becomes your CL):
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2421.0

[meschlum]

(emphasis Mine)

Oh, now that's a deal. lol. I've got to see if my DM will allow that. Might be too good, idk. But may as well check.

EDIT: Checked it out. It seems to only have a +CR, and no +LA. Are there rules on this?


Per Monsters as PCs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races), you effectively get a +LA of +CR, and then buy back up to half the added CR as you gain levels (one level is 'refunded' every 3 party levels).

So an Advanced Were-Dire Tiger (+2 CR) Ranger 8 (CR 8 from ranger, +2 from templates) is a 10th level character. At level 13, you get another class level, so you're a Ranger 12 instead of 11 - and then no more buyoff occurs.

An Advanced Vampire Were-Dire Tiger (+4 CR) Ranger 8 starts out as a level 12 character. At level 15, you get another class level, so Ranger 12 instead of 11 (effective LA +3). At level 18 you get another, so Ranger 16 instead of 14 (effective LA +2).

[Vortenger]

I suggest the Young and Advanced templates for a net of no change to CR/LA.

It grants +8 Dex & +4 to Int/Wis/Cha for the low, low price of a size reduction.

[SangoProduction]

I found this handy little list.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=176.5;wap2