NPC Party

[Ruethgar]

Thinking of entering a game where we will only be able to pick NPC classes and was wondering if anyone had any good guides for optimizing any of the four NPC casters: Psychic Adept, Eberron Adept, Magewrite, and Gleaner.

All official WotC material is available but not 3rd party and PrCs will be a case by case.

[Padishar]

You've got me really curious as to the thought process behind allowing NPC classes only. Is it to weaken the party? Just to do something different? I'm intrigued.

As to customizing the NPC classes, there really isn't anything published about it. They are intentionally generic. Customizing NPCs is typically done through skill and feat selection.

Have you considered using the generic classes presented in Unearthed Arcana? If you're looking for something simpler, or a change of pace, that may be an option...

[Thurbane]

Easiest way to customize these classes is to PrC out as soon as possible. Maybe into classes like Legacy Champion or Uncanny Trickster that progress base class levels (although this may not be optimal - straight + CL PrC may be better)?

[Afgncaap5]

I did this once and wound up playing The Commoner while the other players took Aristocrat, Warrior, Adept, and Expert. Weirdly enough it was one of the most fun games I've ever been in, really ramped up the challenge.

I'm familiar with Magewright, and the Eberron Adept, I think, that's pretty much just allowing it to have a Cleric domain, right? I've never heard of the other two.

[thorr-kan]

I did this once and wound up playing The Commoner while the other players took Aristocrat, Warrior, Adept, and Expert. Weirdly enough it was one of the most fun games I've ever been in, really ramped up the challenge.

I'm familiar with Magewright, and the Eberron Adept, I think, that's pretty much just allowing it to have a Cleric domain, right? I've never heard of the other two.

Stupid commoner tricks (OK, not so stupid; the thread's a fun read) can be found here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?232822-The-Commoner-Handbook

Eberron Adept gives a domain, and comes in the urban and regular flavors.

Gleaner is our host's creation: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html

But I, too, would like to know more about the Psychic Adept. (ETA: Athas.org or http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?242683-npc-classes-psionic-and-other-3rd-party?)

Oh! You might also consider the Cultist from Green Ronin's Freeport offerings. There are several flavors, but it is supposed to be an NPC class as well.

[thorr-kan]

Additional threads that might be of interest:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-225005.html
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-261199.html

There is also the Mlar class, a githyanki arcane NPC class. It covers the same ground as the magewright, from Dungeon 100. It's only 16 levels due to Githyanki Death Queen, but it'll cover most needs.

Any interest in 3rd-party sources? (ETA: Nope, and if I'd made my Int check, that would have been obvious.)

[Fizban]

Eberron Adept with it's free domain is the star. Divine Metamagic is one of the easiest ways to get more power. If you can PrC out then it's not really NPC classes only, so assuming you can't then there's no source of turning. Sudden Metamagic is a weaker substitute.

Magewrights have essentially no offensive ability, all you can do is try to McGuyver stuff with Unseen Servants and spells that are meant to be traps. They can take Arcane Familiar I guess, but Adepts already get that.

The Gleaner should be fine aside from delaying your casting yet another level. Its weakened animal companion doesn't matter much when you can just take Wild Cohort.

If the Psychic Adept is indeed that Athas result, it's obviously more powerful than the rest with faster power acquisition leading up to 6th level instead of 5th, access to all the class power lists, and 4+int skills to boot. Whoever wrote it doesn't seem to have received the memo. Just take Expanded Knowledge a few times and start with a bonus pp race and you should be good.

For any/all, the Complete Mage fey/fiendish feats and Dragonmarks are a source of extra "spells" known and slots, multiple per feat. Wands are much more impressive when your own spells aren't much better, Wand Mastery powers them up. Crafting in general should give you a couple effects you can't normally get and help extend your longevity/spamability.

[Ruethgar]

God Touched and Divine Channeler gets you Turning, the Undeath domain also gets you Turning.

While the Psychic Adept does get up to 6th lvl powers, Psionics is generally less potent than casting and only getting 50pp over 20 levels is a bit of a hit. That puts them at much lower spells per day equivalent than the Adept, but a high feat investment of Psionic Power and Expanded Knowledge could make them quite potent, but would lack the other aspects feats normally brand such as item creation and metapsionics that the adept would still have access to while remaining somewhat on par.

Just went and looked. STP Erudite spells are considered Discipline Powers meaning the Psychic Adept can get them. Yay! Super powered Psychic!

That pretty much puts the best options between STP Psychic and DMM Adept, I suppose the Gleaner with the Wild Cohort boosted by blessings could be nice too, but far from the above potency.

An infinite power point loop could make the Psychic much better with longevity, and I would be able to pick and choose to make a themed character much more readily than the limited spell customization present in the other classes, even with the few spells known.

Edit: On a side note, the Commoner Handbook neglects to mention that Commoners(like all non-Sorc/Wiz/Monks) get Light Armor Proficiency.

[Vizzerdrix]

Human with 2 flaws is the way to go. Wild Cohort, Shape Soulmeld-soulspark familiar*, toughness and Troll Blooded. If troll blooded is off the table, strongheart hafling, wild cohort, *SS-ssf, Spellfire Channeler, and a tasty free feat.

It is also possable to get DR5/ beyshk at level 1. Takes 3 feats though.

[thorr-kan]

Human with 2 flaws is the way to go. Wild Cohort, Shape Soulmeld-soulspark familiar*, toughness and Troll Blooded. If troll blooded is off the table, strongheart hafling, wild cohort, *SS-ssf, Spellfire Channeler, and a tasty free feat.

It is also possable to get DR5/ beyshk at level 1. Takes 3 feats though.
That's a good point.

Is there any way to get Sneak Attack with just feats?

[Ruethgar]

That's a good point.

Is there any way to get Sneak Attack with just feats?

Can get very limited Skirmish with Desert Fire and Martial Study. Can also eventually get Sneak Attack with Martial Stance Assassin Stance.

Edit: Need 5 IL, so you could get it at 10(if you can get some bonus feat) or 7(or 2 or 4 depending on reading)with bloodlines.

[thorr-kan]

Alternatively: dwarf with 20 Constitution. Take Toughness, Troll Blooded, and Roll With It (Savage Species). You have DR 2/-, Regen 1, but you are fatigued by direct sunlight. Buy an umbrella. Pick your flaws well.

[Cerefel]

That's a good point.

Is there any way to get Sneak Attack with just feats?

Iaijutsu Focus is basically just Sudden Strike as a skill, which can be obtained as a class skill from a dip in Expert.

[Vizzerdrix]

Oooh! Are the commoner flaws in play? Weresheep is lycathropy for the high cost of giving you a free feat.

What about warshiping an elder evil? Doesnt that also give feats? Maybe a devil/demon pact for another?

The commoner handbook that someone linked earlier has all sorts of fun things. But first we have to load you up on tasty, tasty feats! MWAA HA HA HA HA HAAAAA!

[Ruethgar]

Oooh! Are the commoner flaws in play? Weresheep is lycathropy for the high cost of giving you a free feat.

What about warshiping an elder evil? Doesnt that also give feats? Maybe a devil/demon pact for another?

The commoner handbook that someone linked earlier has all sorts of fun things. But first we have to load you up on tasty, tasty feats! MWAA HA HA HA HA HAAAAA!

Someone who venerates nature's power, creation and life might be fine with Ranorra and the Leviathan. The requisite of Vile feats makes that option a little less appealing unless I can shuffle(which I doubt).

Which book are the pact benefits in?

So far what I'm thinking

Azurin- Psychic 17/Human Paragon 3

Flaw: Psicrystal Affinity
Flaw: Psycarnum Infusion
First: Azure Talent
Human: Hidden Talent
Paragon: Psionic Talent
Third: Psionic Meditation
Sixth: Psionic Talent
Ninth: Psionic Talent
Twelfth: Psionic Talent
Fifteenth: Expanded Knowledge
Eighteenth: Expanded Knowledge

Psicrystal: Paragon of Charisma
Flaw: God Touched
Flaw: Divine Channeler
First: Eschew Materials
Third: Surrogate Spellcasting
Sixth: Minor Divine Spellcaster(Zap Trap:Lightning Bolt, Thunderstone, Create Element: Double Gems, Virtue:Double Healing)
Ninth: Minor Divine Spellcaster(Create Water: Windstorm and Heavy Rain)
Twelfth: Extend Spell
Fifteenth: Repeat Spell
Eighteenth: Twin Spell

[Fizban]

God Touched and Divine Channeler gets you Turning, the Undeath domain also gets you Turning.
That's two dragon mag feats and the cheesy idea of what happens if you get Extra Turning without already having turning.

I suppose the Gleaner with the Wild Cohort boosted by blessings could be nice too, but far from the above potency.
The Gleaner blessings can't be applied to an animal companion, just because it doesn't mention Wild Cohort specifically doesn't mean the intent is unclear.