Ways of reducing LA (3.5)

[flappeercraft]

So right now I have a new member of my party who wants to play a Drow Rogue/Assassin. The problem here is that Drow has LA+2 but he is convinced he wants to play a drow. Do you guys know any way to reduce the LA in any way? I know of the UA version of every 3 levels give XP to reduce LA by 1 but we want to know of all other alternatives, preferably something we can do early game. Any suggestions?

[Flickerdart]

There's a very crude alternative given somewhere for playing monsters earlier than they would be playable normally - give them the penalties of X negative levels instead of LA +X.

So a drow could get rid of LA +2 for the following penalties: -2 on all skill and ability checks, -2 on all attack rolls and saves, -10 hit points (minimum 1 for sanity), -2 effective levels whenever level is required, -2 highest level spell slots.

[Doc_Maynot]

There is always the Lesser Drow variant described (here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2)) and in FRCS


Lesser Drow

Lesser drow have the following racial traits.

Racial Abilities: These traits are in addition to the standard elf abilities in the Player's Handbook, except where noted.

+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution: The lesser drow have ruthlessly selected for agility at the expense of hardiness over countless generations. These adjustments replace the ability adjustments given for elves in the Player's Handbook.

Darkvision: Lesser drow can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and lesser drow can function just fine with no light at all. This ability replaces the low-light vision noted for elves in the Player's Handbook.

Weapon Proficiency: Lesser drow are automatically proficient with the hand crossbow, rapier, and short sword. These proficiencies replace those of standard elves.

+2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like effects.

Spell-Like Abilities: A lesser drow with a Charisma score of at least 10 has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day -- dancing lights, daze, touch of fatigue. Caster level equals the lesser drow's class levels.

Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds lesser drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.

Favored Class: Wizard (male) or cleric (female). This trait replaces the favored class entry for elves in the Player's Handbook.


The page I linked also describes the Savage Species method of playing characters with LA that Flickerdart described.

[Kaje]

Lesser drow http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2

[Necroticplague]

There's an LA +0 version of drow, with less powers. If you want, you can gain a point of la to gain more powers, in accord with the relevant monster class table. Here's (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) the link to the online article that version is in, here's (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) the template class rules they refer to.

[Komatik]

I prefer taking LA behind the shed and murdering it in cold blood.

[Inevitability]

Seconding the lesser drow idea. Failing that, reduce the drow's LA to +1: it's far more reasonable.


I prefer taking LA behind the shed and murdering it in cold blood.

And your advice to people who want to play a LA-adjusted race is...?

[darksolitaire]

Suggesting Drow savage progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).


Seconding the lesser drow idea. Failing that, reduce the drow's LA to +1: it's far more reasonable.

That works, but removing spell resistance might be a good idea.

[Komatik]

And your advice to people who want to play a LA-adjusted race is...?

Simply ignoring the damn thing entirely and using some common sense.

[Inevitability]

That works, but removing spell resistance might be a good idea.

At all levels there's plenty of spells, more often offensive than beneficial, that can ignore SR. Not to mention Su's, nonmagical attacks, Assay Spell Resistance and monster simply targeting other party members. SR isn't as broken as many people think it is.

[Cerefel]

If nothing else they could play a half-drow with the Drow Legacy feat from DotU

[Troacctid]

There are three main options for drow without a level adjustment: lesser drow, savage progression drow, and half-drow. (Also deepwyrm half-drow, if you count that separately.) I like the savage progression drow, personally.

[Exocist]

If you can somehow make yourself a construct, you can use Incarnate construct for -2 Level Adjustment :P

The cheapest way I know to "make" yourself a construct, though, is with Dustform (Sandstorm), which is +2 LA in the first place :/

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What abilities does he really want from the Drow anyway? Why does he want to be a Drow?

If he just wants to play a Drow, then Lesser Drow (+0 LA) should do.

If he wants specific abilities of the Drow (IIRC there isn't much), I'm sure there's ways to get them that don't involve level loss.

[darksolitaire]

At all levels there's plenty of spells, more often offensive than beneficial, that can ignore SR. Not to mention Su's, nonmagical attacks, Assay Spell Resistance and monster simply targeting other party members. SR isn't as broken as many people think it is.

Sure, but removing it would put +1 LA Drow inline with the other options. I like to keep as close to base line rules as possible when changing anything, despite 3.5 being what it is. Bariaur is only +1 LA race with SR, and they pay for it by not being able to wear normal armors.

[flappeercraft]

If you can somehow make yourself a construct, you can use Incarnate construct for -2 Level Adjustment :P

The cheapest way I know to "make" yourself a construct, though, is with Dustform (Sandstorm), which is +2 LA in the first place :/

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What abilities does he really want from the Drow anyway? Why does he want to be a Drow?

If he just wants to play a Drow, then Lesser Drow (+0 LA) should do.

If he wants specific abilities of the Drow (IIRC there isn't much), I'm sure there's ways to get them that don't involve level loss.

He wants the elf benefits for finding secret doors, int, cha and dex bonuses. That is it

[Flickerdart]

If the players are new, I would remove SR just to avoid the whole "I try to heal the drow" "You fail to penetrate SR, drow dies" issue.

[Exocist]

He wants the elf benefits for finding secret doors, int, cha and dex bonuses. That is it

Grey Elf + Magic-Blooded Template should give it to him for +0 LA.

Grey Elf has all elf traits (Including bonus for secret doors), with -2 CON, -2 STR, +2 DEX +2 INT as it's stats.

Magic-Blooded (in addition to giving you the dragonblood type) will also give you -2 CON +2 CHA.

Leaving you with -4 CON -2 STR +2 DEX +2 INT +2 CHA at 0 level adjustment.

[Inevitability]

He wants the elf benefits for finding secret doors, int, cha and dex bonuses. That is it

Unseelie Fey grey elf?

[Troacctid]

Unseelie Fey grey elf?
You don't want to be using Dragon Compendium templates, they're all broken and dysfunctional due to a botched revision for 3.5.

I'd just slap the draconic or half-fey template on a grey elf and call it a day.

[Cerefel]

Does anyone else think it may be ill-advised to suggest a character with LA (and hence fewer hit dice) AND a racial -4 CON?

[Esprit15]

Does anyone else think it may be ill-advised to suggest a character with LA (and hence fewer hit dice) AND a racial -4 CON?

Grey Elf has no LA.

[Cerefel]

Grey Elf has no LA.

Half fey does

[Ruethgar]

There are also half Drow with no LA if you just want the appearance/culture or what have you.

[Rebel7284]

Would turning into a construct (Polymorph any Object or Metamorphosis), applying Incarante Construct with that 9th level spells, then dismissing the Polymorph effect work for lowering the LA? Obviously super cheezy, but at least it costs money for spellcasting services. :)

[Padishar]

Don't know if you're doing 3.5 or Pathfinder, but Unearthed Arcana (pg 18-19) gives a method for eliminating LAs by taking an experience penalty at certain levels. I've used it before. It's not bad.

[flappeercraft]

There are also half Drow with no LA if you just want the appearance/culture or what have you.

I specified what the new player wants on a previous response


Don't know if you're doing 3.5 or Pathfinder, but Unearthed Arcana (pg 18-19) gives a method for eliminating LAs by taking an experience penalty at certain levels. I've used it before. It's not bad.

In the title I specified 3.5 and I specified on the first comment that we could not use the UA version. Thank you anyways though

[Exocist]

Also, it seems I was a little bit incorrect on what Magic-Blooded does (memory is a bit shaky), it's actually -2 WIS, +2 CHA

Template is from Dragon Magazine (IIRC 311), but what it gives can be found here (http://blackmarches.wikidot.com/magic-blooded).

Magic-Blooded Grey Elf will give -2 CON, +2 DEX, -2 STR, +2 INT, -2 WIS, +2 CHA

[ericgrau]

Core low OP: Don't. Just play with 2 LA. Higher OP, ask the DM to make it 1 LA. At very low level 1 LA may be good even for lower OP to avoid dangerously low HP, then raise it as he levels. Done.

Healing: Get him a couple good potions for emergencies. Tell the party where he stores them on his person. Besides emergencies healing should be between battle anyway. Solved.


He wants the elf benefits for finding secret doors, int, cha and dex bonuses. That is it

Alternatively if he just wants elf with roguey stuff how about a vanilla grey elf? I mean a rogue doesn't need the cha bonus. At all. I think everyone is trying way too hard and paying too much to get it. +1 to social skills is meh. If you really want the social skill bonus it's worth about 500 gp on a magic item, or 4500 gp for +3 from a core item. Works on UMD too. Grey elf gets int, dex, secret door sense and the elven skill bonuses. Loses 2 con and 2 str, but LA would have dropped his hp too.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Subtract the cost of the spellcasting services for one casting of polymorph any object from his WBL. Then avoid any dispelling against him for awhile.